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Yet another mass shooting

  • 08-11-2018 9:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭


    https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html

    12 dead, seems it was a marine.

    With these being so ubiquitous these days, you wonder why people even do it. I know you have to be out of your mind but I can't imagine what state you have to get into, to want to take a dozen or more other people with you.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,761 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    There was only another this morning, a marine did that too, jaysus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    There was only another this morning, a marine did that too, jaysus.


    Really, jesus christ.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Is this not the one last night?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Is this not the one last night?


    You're right it was last night, my bad - only just got the alert now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭mammajamma


    Its just the disintegration of the United States picking up pace. Next year they will break the records for this year, and so on.

    They're going down unless something drastic changes within their society.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    In 2016 there was only a five day stretch without somesort of mass shooting. I'm not even sure we hear about the majority of them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Was there a thread on this before now (like last night perhaps?)

    Imagine how bad things have gotten if AH collectively has gotten desensitized to these things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Couldn't see one, please lock this one if so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Couldn't see one, please lock this one if so.

    I didn't see one, which is what I meant, imagine that the time would come where there's a mass shooting and no thread on AH....
    It's possible of course we both missed it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    Merica


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    On an individual level of the victims and their families, it is terrible. There is a heartbreaking video on social media of a 50 something father who broke down in tears because he felt guilty about not doing more to stop the shooter because he wanted to save his son instead.

    On a national level though, it is hard to sympathize. My understanding is that a majority of Americans want greater gun control yet they voted republicans back into the senate who will do nothing but dance to the NRA's tune.

    They voted for a president who they knew would do nothing about gun control despite an alternative candidate who promised to address the issue.

    So there will be the typical CTRL+C, CTRL+V from the last mass shooting. They'll be thoughts and prayers, democrats will demand action, republicans will say it is not the time and the 2nd amendment must be protected, the news cycle will move on but there will be another group of families forever changed and scarred, and then repeat, and repeat and repeat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    As always, thoughts and prayers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Sad but that's the US now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    This is why everyone in the US should be armed when going out so people like this can be taken out immediately after they kill the first person even before if they are showing signs of mental illness
    I mean every week there is another mass shooting so chances are you would be in a position to have to do this.
    Hell not even just going out, students, teachers, going shopping, babies - should all be armed. The only way to stop this kind of thing happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,414 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Thoughts and Prayers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Sad but that's the US now.

    now?? been like that for years


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    wexie wrote: »
    Was there a thread on this before now (like last night perhaps?)

    Imagine how bad things have gotten if AH collectively has gotten desensitized to these things.

    It's inevitable that we will become desensitised to these shootings. The only reason we hear of them are the strong links here to US media.

    We don't seem to run threads on the 46 murders each day in South Africa. The bulk of the 15000 murders using guns in the USA each year largely go unreported.

    It takes the spectacular event to be newsworthy, and the definition of spectacular is tightening every day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

    An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    On an individual level of the victims and their families, it is terrible. There is a heartbreaking video on social media of a 50 something father who broke down in tears because he felt guilty about not doing more to stop the shooter because he wanted to save his son instead.

    On a national level though, it is hard to sympathize. My understanding is that a majority of Americans want greater gun control yet they voted republicans back into the senate who will do nothing but dance to the NRA's tune.

    They voted for a president who they knew would do nothing about gun control despite an alternative candidate who promised to address the issue.

    So there will be the typical CTRL+C, CTRL+V from the last mass shooting. They'll be thoughts and prayers, democrats will demand action, republicans will say it is not the time and the 2nd amendment must be protected, the news cycle will move on but there will be another group of families forever changed and scarred, and then repeat, and repeat and repeat.

    It isnt a level playing field with regards voting though. Republicans have made an art of choosing their voters as opposed to the voters choosing them. Saw a tweet yesterday which said the Republicans had a 7% increase in 2010 and took 66 extra seats as a result. This week, the Democrats had a 9.5% increase and took just 33 extra seats. The system is also purposely skewed to give as much and often more voting power to smaller populated rural states which traditionally have always been pro Republican and staunchly pro gun.

    As for the president, he got three million less votes than his gun reform opponent, but thanks to a rigged system, now sits in the Oval office.
    It's hard to blame the voter when they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Mam of 4


    By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

    An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

    Ah lordie , this is all becoming too commonplace . Shootings after shootings in various situations .
    It honestly makes me sad :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Watching the news just now. This is the 307th mass shooting in America this year. No words.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

    An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

    That is pretty much a weekly event (most accidental).
    When its so ingrained into your psyche that having loaded guns is the norm sure why the hell would you have them locked up


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

    An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

    That reads like a overzealous piece of fiction. Unbelievable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    I was reading in a book today that in the US they have this really critical superego or, if you will, critical inner voice that bugs them terribly surrounding things like being unpopular and that it drives them to the point of madness whereby they conduct revenge shootings like this on the places like high schools where they were outsiders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    Agricola wrote: »
    It isnt a level playing field with regards voting though. Republicans have made an art of choosing their voters as opposed to the voters choosing them. Saw a tweet yesterday which said the Republicans had a 7% increase in 2010 and took 66 extra seats as a result. This week, the Democrats had a 9.5% increase and took just 33 extra seats. The system is also purposely skewed to give as much and often more voting power to smaller populated rural states which traditionally have always been pro Republican and staunchly pro gun.

    As for the president, he got three million less votes than his gun reform opponent, but thanks to a rigged system, now sits in the Oval office.
    It's hard to blame the voter when they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.


    I agree the voting landscape and system in America is borderline undemocratic at this stage. It is pretty difficult to defend a system in a so called democracy where the winner of the popular vote is the loser. America needs to get rid of the electoral college system and they'll be better for it.


    That being said, voting democrats into power is not impossible and those who voted for republicans (especially in the swing states) did so knowing that gun control laws won't change, whether this was a conscious decision in their choice of candidate, or just apathy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭Gwynplaine


    Thoughts and Prayers.

    As it has happened so many times now, it's clear that this doesn't work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Gwynplaine wrote: »
    As it has happened so many times now, it's clear that this doesn't work.

    i think it was pretty clear after the first time that BS didn't work, never mind the xxxth time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I know people who expressed reservations about visiting European cities last year for fear of terrorist attacks.
    But wouldn't think twice about visiting America.
    Perception is a powerful thing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Was about 30km from there two weeks ago. Scary thought.

    Shooter used an extended magazine, ironically in the only US state that outlaws extended magazines.

    My thoughts regarding how to tackle the gun control issue as quite elequently inferred by CJ Cregg:



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I agree the voting landscape and system in America is borderline undemocratic at this stage. It is pretty difficult to defend a system in a so called democracy where the winner of the popular vote is the loser. America needs to get rid of the electoral college system and they'll be better for it.
    .

    As opposed to what, a parliamentary system like the UK where occasionally the party which receives fewer votes ends up with the Prime Minister? There is a reason why Clement Attlee was not PM after the 1955 election, despite his Labor Party receiving more votes than the Tories.

    Something missing from the above discussion is that though most of us would like improved gun control there is a wide swathe as to just how far that gun control should go. My supporting universal background checks does not mean I would support Clinton’s stance on the subject.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    As opposed to what, a parliamentary system like the UK where occasionally the party which receives fewer votes ends up with the Prime Minister?.

    As opposed to a functional system like any number of other 1st world countries; Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Aus, NZ, Holland, Italy, Switzerland etc etc etc. No need to specifically pick the only other one that is also very broken.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    fritzelly wrote: »
    That is pretty much a weekly event (most accidental).
    When its so ingrained into your psyche that having loaded guns is the norm sure why the hell would you have them locked up

    Ingrained how? Even the nra on their site say to keep guns unloaded and secured etc.

    As with anything you will always have stupid and irresponsible people that will leave dangerous things lying around. No matter how much you tell them not to.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    This just will continue. To toxic for either party to tackle it. NRA have the politicians in their pockets. I don't think it matter's which party is in gun control won't happen. The minute you even consider making even slight changes the nra are all over it. After Sandy Hook there was some sort of call for banning or certain type of guns. However i think most of this went by the way side. I think there could be a mass shooting every day in the us and nothing would happen. Very sad for the victims etc. but i won't be long till the next mass shooting.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    As opposed to a functional system like any number of other 1st world countries; Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Aus, NZ, Holland, Italy, Switzerland etc etc etc. No need to specifically pick the only other one that is also very broken.

    It is theoretically possible for such a result to happen in Ireland, though I presume it has not happened yet. It is a feature inherent with any system which elects its government by regional representation, be they States or constituencies. After all, there is nothing which says that more people have to vote for whoever ends up becoming the Taoiseach, or that the Taoiseach's party must have received the most votes. They just need to win more constituencies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It is theoretically possible for such a result to happen in Ireland, though I presume it has not happened yet. It is a feature inherent with any system which elects its government by regional representation, be they States or constituencies. After all, there is nothing which says that more people have to vote for whoever ends up becoming the Taoiseach, or that the Taoiseach's party must have received the most votes. They just need to win more constituencies.
    Yes, but in a proportional system that weight votes equally it's very difficult to win more constituencies without winning more of the vote.

    It used to happen fairly regularly that Fianna Fail would end up with more than 50% of the seats on less than 50% of the vote. This was the outcome, basically, of gerrymandering - over-representation of rural voters, and careful decisions about where to put three-seat constituencies, and where to put four-seat constituencies.

    Over-representation of rural voters was ruled to be unconstitutional in the 1960s, and in the late 1970s the business of drawing up constituencies was taken out of the hands of ministers and given to an independent commission, since when no majority government has ever taken power without securing a majority of the vote. So, yeah, this technology exists.

    It's a bit of a side-issue in this thread, however. The US has the electoral college for a reason. By and large, it has served the country well - it is an enduring and successful democracy. While you could marshal interesting arguments for and against retaining the system, I seriously doubt that arguments about the implications for gun control would carry much weight one way or the other. Americans don't have the gun control laws they do, and the attitudes to and beliefs about guns that they have, because of the electoral system, and changing the electoral system would not change much in this regard.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    just an aside, but i always wondered why all the electoral votes go to to the winner in each state, even if its 50.1 to 49.9?
    Why aren't split electoral votes more common? (although, if you can't make the 55 votes in California count, would you have a better chance with 34 (62%) of them..?)

    https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    just an aside, but i always wondered why all the electoral votes go to to the winner in each state, even if its 50.1 to 49.9?
    Why aren't split electoral votes more common? (although, if you can't make the 55 votes in California count, would you have a better chance with 34 (62%) of them..?)

    https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/

    The reason is partially institutional inertia, and partially partisan politics.

    Way back in the day, when a State decided on something, the State decided it. Imagine the crew of a ship voting which way to sail. They couldn’t split the ship, so everyone went that way whether they liked it or not. The nation was created with “the United States” being a plural, not the singular as we use it today, and the idea of a State providing a split decision was a bit outside the point. That’s not to say that the Maine/Nebraska method was unheard of, Massachusetts used it for a few elections in the early 19th Century.

    These days, there is no incentive for it, really. Can you imagine the leadership in California (Heavily Democrat), in a State which is reliably Democrat, waking up one day and saying “in the interests of fairness, we are going to split out State votes, so instead of our providing 55 EC votes to our Democratic candidate for a president, we’ll only give 30 to them, and let the Republicans take the other 25”? No way it’s going to happen, they’d be ostracized from the Democratic Party. (And, obviously, the reverse is true for the reliably Republican States).

    What tripped the trigger for Maine was a surprisingly hard-fought election in 1968 between three candidates, and Maine’s fractured vote all went to Nixon. After that, Maine decided to split.

    That said, from 1972 to today, the two States which allow split votes have each split only once each. Maine in 2016 with a vote for Trump, and Obama got a Nebraska one in 2008. Since both States work on the basis of “congressional districts plus bonus”, it’s actually quite possible for the “loser”of the State’s popular vote to win the majority of the EC votes, but certainly not easily, it’s not simply a proportionate equivalency.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    fritzelly wrote: »
    This is why everyone in the US should be armed when going out so people like this can be taken out immediately after they kill the first person even before if they are showing signs of mental illness
    I mean every week there is another mass shooting so chances are you would be in a position to have to do this.
    Hell not even just going out, students, teachers, going shopping, babies - should all be armed. The only way to stop this kind of thing happening.

    wrong. that is why things are as they are. everyone is armed already. and the attackers know that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Graces7 wrote: »
    wrong. that is why things are as they are. everyone is armed already. and the attackers know that.

    I think... just maybe... there was a bit of sarcasm in there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,633 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Was about 30km from there two weeks ago. Scary thought.

    Shooter used an extended magazine, ironically in the only US state that outlaws extended magazines.

    My thoughts regarding how to tackle the gun control issue as quite elequently inferred by CJ Cregg:

    Sorry but how is being 30km away from a place in a completely different time a scary thought?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    I agree the voting landscape and system in America is borderline undemocratic at this stage. It is pretty difficult to defend a system in a so called democracy where the winner of the popular vote is the loser. America needs to get rid of the electoral college system and they'll be better for it.


    That being said, voting democrats into power is not impossible and those who voted for republicans (especially in the swing states) did so knowing that gun control laws won't change, whether this was a conscious decision in their choice of candidate, or just apathy.

    The way to change the electoral college has the same limitations as the electoral college itself. A constitutional change needs the majority of States to agree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Was about 30km from there two weeks ago. Scary thought.

    Shooter used an extended magazine, ironically in the only US state that outlaws extended magazines.

    I was in New York at the world trade centre last year, I could have died.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

    An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

    That is so sad, but how retarded are people that don't keep guns in a safe.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    mammajamma wrote: »
    Its just the disintegration of the United States picking up pace. Next year they will break the records for this year, and so on.

    They're going down unless something drastic changes within their society.

    Someone mentioned somewhere that empires typically last about 200 years ,
    It's interesting - seems the US as a superpower and society is on it's way out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    By the way, I don't think this got much attention here but I saw the headline when I was looking at CNN for the midterms.

    An 11 year old boy shot his grandmother in the head after she asked him to clean his room. He then shot himself.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/arizona-boy-11-grandmother-shot/index.html

    Jesus!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭SexBobomb


    Someone mentioned somewhere that empires typically last about 200 years ,
    It's interesting - seems the US as a superpower and society is on it's way out.
    I think its on the verge of a massive change over the next 20 years when issues like these and civil unrest reach a breaking point. America is too big to fail, its too involved all over the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    This just will continue. To toxic for either party to tackle it. NRA have the politicians in their pockets. I don't think it matter's which party is in gun control won't happen. The minute you even consider making even slight changes the nra are all over it. After Sandy Hook there was some sort of call for banning or certain type of guns. However i think most of this went by the way side. I think there could be a mass shooting every day in the us and nothing would happen. Very sad for the victims etc. but i won't be long till the next mass shooting.

    People give the NRA far too much credit. They don't have half as much power as people think.

    If the NRA were disbanded, that doesn't mean that Americans would give up their guns. Guns are a big part of their culture.

    The majority of Americans don't want the 2nd Amendment removed.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just read a survivor of Vegas died in it. Reminds me of a good friend I cut ties with because he defended the exec who said she had no sympathy for victims in Vegas cause they were probably Republican.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭orourkeda1977


    Merica

    F*ck Yeahhhhhhhhhhh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,554 ✭✭✭valoren


    Sandy Hook was the event horizon for gun control in America.
    If the murders of 20 six and seven year old children didn't prompt collective action then there will never be collective action.

    Mass shootings are simply a fact of life in the US now.


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