LGBTQIA+

glenfieldman · 08-07-2017 8:49pm #1

Ok back in the day we had LGB, which was grand, the they added the T, and recently they added the Q
But today Ive seen that IA+ have been added
We have thankfully legalized homosexuality, and we voted to for gay marriage, but do the gay community want to commander the whole alphabet ?

Omackeral · 08-07-2017 8:50pm

Alphabet? Did you just assume my writing system?!

Samaris · 08-07-2017 8:54pm

It's not really the gay community. I've heard quite a lot of them slagging off the lengths to which full acronyms can get and really, it's not necessary. Asexualism is completely unrelated to homosexuality for a start. LGB was really one specific range, and if you really wanted to, LGBCis or LGBS (straight) if one wanted to gather the main four. Asexuality is kiiiinda like calling Atheism a religion, it's kinda related but mostly not really. Transgender is imo completely different, but I get the drawing them in under the same umbrella as ..protection in a way. "We will accept you because we know what it's like".

After that, it's like trying to remember a phone number.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 08-07-2017 8:54pm

What does the IA+ part mean?

Omackeral · 08-07-2017 8:57pm

What I legitimately don't get is why "T" is grouped with LGB. Trans isn't an orientation/sexuality. Is there ever any issue with including the T?

Sonics2k · 08-07-2017 9:03pm

I mean really, does it actually matter or impact your life in any way?

No? I didn't think so.

One eyed Jack · 08-07-2017 9:06pm

Samaris wrote: »

It's not really the gay community. I've heard quite a lot of them slagging off the lengths to which full acronyms can get and really, it's not necessary. Asexualism is completely unrelated to homosexuality for a start. LGB was really one specific range, and if you really wanted to, LGBCis or LGBS (straight) if one wanted to gather the main four. Asexuality is kiiiinda like calling Atheism a religion, it's kinda related but mostly not really. Transgender is imo completely different, but I get the drawing them in under the same umbrella as ..protection in a way. "We will accept you because we know what it's like".

After that, it's like trying to remember a phone number.

That was always my understanding of the LGBTQIA acronym too, that it was a politically motivated umbrella group, not unlike I suppose the way Atheist Ireland, the Evangelical Alliance the Ahmadiyya Muslim community (and there are a few others, representatives of the traveller community), have all banded together with a common goal in mind.

Some groups though have more political and social capital than others, and some groups are just ridiculously over-represented in the media which would leave someone with the impression that "they're getting a bit ahead of themselves"

I dunno about you OP but my favorites were aleays QUILTBAG and FABGLITTER, and that's going back what must be about 20 odd years I've been aware of those terms :pac:

glenfieldman · 08-07-2017 9:09pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean really, does it actually matter or impact your life in any way?

No? I didn't think so.

Its a relevant discussion,
But if i called a gay guy a queer id be called a homophobic, but queer is part of their acronym, is that not a bit of a double standard ?

snowflaker · 08-07-2017 9:11pm

glenfieldman wrote: »

Its a relevant discussion,
But if i called a gay guy a queer id be called a homophobic, but queer is part of their acronym, is that not a bit of a double standard ?

Like the N word. You can use it to describe oneself, not to belittle another

gizmo81 · 08-07-2017 9:17pm

Oh look another heterosexist post on After Hours!

Ye are obsessed with us!!

Good Gawd Gurlz Geta Grip

Samaris · 08-07-2017 9:18pm

..Well, that escalated quickly.

glenfieldman · 08-07-2017 9:24pm

Im far from a homophobe but i find it offensive to have Q, queer in the acronym, and the other letters have nothing to do with the gay community.
Can I as a white man say "**** lives matter" ?

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 9:28pm

When will they add S for schizophrenic and other mental illnesses?

I made the mistake of lumping the T in before, I draw the line at LGB.

Mod-Banned

Samaris · 08-07-2017 9:29pm

The idea is that it's reclaiming the word from those that would use it as a pejorative. -Maybe- someday it would be acceptable to use one of those words without it having the old connotations around it; I'd say that would be more likely with "queer" than "n*gger" as the latter has been an insult specifically used by (mostly) whites to black people for centuries, whereas "queer" hasn't been a pejorative that long or that incessantly.

I think "Queer" (and I might be wrong on this) is used for anyone that isn't of a strict binary gender/straight in terms of sexuality, but I might be wrong on that. It does seem a bit redundant as it's way too broad if that -is- the case, but then again, I'm not sure it was all ever meant to be scientific-level classification anyway. People take the terms or don't take them as they wish and feel them applicable to themselves. Maybe it helps some to be able to have an accepted word that people (mostly?) understand, for others, they feel labelled by it. Always found "cis" a bit ridiculous.

DoozerT6 · 08-07-2017 9:30pm

I always thought the Q stood for 'questioning' as in they weren't sure of their orientation?

What's the IA+

Dyr · 08-07-2017 9:31pm

They're worse than world of warcraft for levelling up

Gremlinertia · 08-07-2017 9:33pm

Bring in 'S' for schizophrenia? Lumping the 'T' in?. What is the distinction for you? All LGB are mentally unwell or?.

mzungu · 08-07-2017 9:34pm

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I always thought the Q stood for 'questioning' as in they weren't sure of their orientation?

What's the IA+

Intersex, Asexual and the "+" stands for all other sexualities, genders and sexes not included.

ToddyDoody · 08-07-2017 9:34pm

It used to be GLBT until the lesbians threw their weight around and changed it to them first.

As you can imagine, the gays were helpless in its defence.

One eyed Jack · 08-07-2017 9:36pm

glenfieldman wrote: »

Im far from a homophobe but i find it offensive to have Q, queer in the acronym, and the other letters have nothing to do with the gay community.
Can I as a white man say "**** lives matter" ?

Offensive?

It's basically the idea that they're all minority groups, so, the whole umbrella terminology is a bit like a union of sorts. They had common interests amongst themselves at one point, but now they're all equally vying for representation so they're all claiming to be a more oppressed minority than the others. For example only a couple of months back, the LGBT society in a university in the UK tried to have gay men excluded from the society as they were deemed to be not as oppressed as the other minorities.

I wouldn't get too het up about it, it's a bit tiresome and facepalm inducing at times to watch the various groups play identity politics, but tbey really don't affect my daily life at all so I'm not too bothered about them.

You can of course say "**** lives matter" (you just did!), but whether anyone would take you seriously or not, is another matter entirely.

glenfieldman · 08-07-2017 9:38pm

Samaris wrote: »

The idea is that it's reclaiming the word from those that would use it as a pejorative. -Maybe- someday it would be acceptable to use one of those words without it having the old connotations around it; I'd say that would be more likely with "queer" than "n*gger" as the latter has been an insult specifically used by (mostly) whites to black people for centuries, whereas "queer" hasn't been a pejorative that long or that incessantly.

I think "Queer" (and I might be wrong on this) is used for anyone that isn't of a strict binary gender/straight in terms of sexuality, but I might be wrong on that. It does seem a bit redundant as it's way too broad if that -is- the case, but then again, I'm not sure it was all ever meant to be scientific-level classification anyway. People take the terms or don't take them as they wish and feel them applicable to themselves. Maybe it helps some to be able to have an accepted word that people (mostly?) understand, for others, they feel labelled by it. Always found "cis" a bit ridiculous.

Thats my point why do people need to reclame any word

RustyNut · 08-07-2017 9:38pm

A lads, I thought LGBTQIA stood for mothers against dyslexia.

08-07-2017 9:42pm

mzungu wrote: »

Intersex, Asexual and the "+" stands for all other sexualities, genders and sexes not included.[/QUOTE]

Including genders and sexes that haven't been made up yet.

glenfieldman · 08-07-2017 9:42pm

mzungu wrote: »

Intersex, Asexual and the "+" stands for all other sexualities, genders and sexes not included.

Can you explain the above now, and im sure before you post your reply three more will be created

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 9:42pm

Gremlinertia wrote: »

Bring in 'S' for schizophrenia? Lumping the 'T' in?. What is the distinction for you? All LGB are mentally unwell or?.

Suicide rates are the same for transgender people before and after surgery, both are in excess of 40%.

The idea that the suicide rates are linked to social pressure is false, there's further studies that show those who come out and say they're transgender have the same suicide rate as those who don't.

There's never been suicide rates so high in human history, besides perhaps Jews living under Nazi rule in Nazi Germany.

Those who sympathize with it are enablers, the same way someone who has schizophrenia is told the hallucinations they're seeing are real.

The whole thing is a consequence of political correctness and social justice getting out of hand. Everyone is a victim of something.

SEPT 23 1989 · 08-07-2017 9:43pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

What does the IA+ part mean?

It's all greek to me

Sonics2k · 08-07-2017 9:52pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Suicide rates are the same for transgender people before and after surgery, both are in excess of 40%.

The idea that the suicide rates are linked to social pressure is false, there's further studies that show those who come out and say they're transgender have the same suicide rate as those who don't.

There's never been suicide rates so high in human history, besides perhaps Jews living under Nazi rule in Nazi Germany.

Those who sympathize with it are enablers, the same way someone who has schizophrenia is told the hallucinations they're seeing are real.

The whole thing is a consequence of political correctness and social justice getting out of hand. Everyone is a victim of something.

I have seen you write out some outright garbage statements over the last year, but this one takes the cake.

I've known Trans people since I was a wee-lad in the mid 80's before the whole SJW thing kicked off.

The suicide rate amongst gay and lesbian people is also massively out of proportion, which can be be put down to social pressure, abuse, discrimination and bullying, or are you saying they are gay or lesbian as a result of enablers?

I'm not a fan of the current SJW/victim thing going on on the internet and Universities, but you're saying some awful nonsense here.

bodice ripper · 08-07-2017 9:53pm

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Suicide rates are the same for transgender people before and after surgery, both are in excess of 40%.

Look at you pretending like you care...

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 9:53pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean really, does it actually matter or impact your life in any way?

No? I didn't think so.

It does, because if you start giving crazies a platform that embezzles itself into social norms without scientific evidence, that sets a dangerous precedent.

Annasopra · 08-07-2017 9:54pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

The idea that the suicide rates are linked to social pressure is false

Whats your proof of this?

Sonics2k · 08-07-2017 9:56pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It does, because if you start giving crazies a platform that embezzles itself into social norms without scientific evidence, that sets a dangerous precedent.

No, it really doesn't.

People were claiming that being gay was a mental illness some 40-50 years ago, innocent people were treated to shock therapy to 'cure' them.

Even now, gay 'conversion therapy' causes massive mental trauma to people due to the treatment they receive.

conorhal · 08-07-2017 10:03pm

Does the 'A' stand for 'attack Helicopters'? I identify as an attack Helicopter. If not, THAT'S RACIST!!

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 10:05pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Whats your proof of this?

"Trans men (FTM) were found to have the same prevalence of
lifetime suicide attempts (46%) regardless of whether
they thought others can tell they are transgender.

Female-assigned cross-dressers and gender
non-conforming/genderqueer people assigned female
at birth – the prevalence of lifetime suicide attempts
was found to be higher among those who said other
people “occasionally” or “never” can tell they are
transgender or gender non-conforming, compared
to those who said that other people “always,” most
of the time,” or “sometimes” can tell. "

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

mzungu · 08-07-2017 10:06pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

The idea that the suicide rates are linked to social pressure is false,

Not exactly, a lot of studies highlight the opposite. For example....

The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons. (Virupaksha, Muralidhar, and Ramakrishna 2016)

Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

The study above does highlight the links between social pressure and suicide across different countries.

Goodshape · 08-07-2017 10:07pm

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I always thought the Q stood for 'questioning' as in they weren't sure of their orientation?

What's the IA+

Q stands for both, Queer or Questioning. Plenty of people self identify as queer as a means to say "not straight" without necessarily pidgeon holing themselves with another more prescriptive label. It's a reclaimed word, although there are some who still don't like it's use.

The IA+ is Intersex, Asexual, and 'plus' – as in "plus anyone else who wants or needs the support of the community".

The acronym is imperfect and people and groups add letters from time to time to be more inclusive, welcoming, and supportive to more people. It's generally agreed that whatever acronym is used or displayed, it's not supposed to be limiting. The other letters are always there in spirit.

It's still most commonly written as LGBT or LGBT+, though adding the Q is pretty popular too.

.

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 10:14pm

To back up my other point

"A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Dyr · 08-07-2017 10:15pm

Can we all accept that non straight is the most accurate and elegant collective term even though that will cause epic whinging?

Annasopra · 08-07-2017 10:16pm

Bambi wrote: »

Can we all accept that non straight is the most accurate and elegant collective term even though that will cause epic whinging?

No

Dyr · 08-07-2017 10:17pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No

I can't think of a more accurate or elegant term, can you?

snowflaker · 08-07-2017 10:20pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It does, because if you start giving crazies a platform that embezzles itself into social norms without scientific evidence, that sets a dangerous precedent.

Shows your attitude to mental illness...

snowflaker · 08-07-2017 10:20pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

To back up my other point

"A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Thats an OP-ED tbf

Annasopra · 08-07-2017 10:20pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

To back up my other point

"A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

The Swedish study that has been thoroughly debunked?

http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 10:21pm

snowflaker wrote: »

Shows your attitude to mental illness...

You know nothing about me.

The crazies are the ones who enable such behavior, I don't blame the victims.

Annasopra · 08-07-2017 10:22pm

snowflaker wrote: »

Thats an OP-ED tbf

From Paul McHugh known homophobe and transphobe

https://freethoughtblogs.com/atg/2016/09/30/johns-hopkins-faculty-disavow-paul-mchughs-homophobic-and-transphobic-report/

snowflaker · 08-07-2017 10:23pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You know nothing about me.

The crazies are the ones who enable such behavior, I don't blame the victims.

referring to people as "crazies" shows it up perfectly imho

Annasopra · 08-07-2017 10:23pm

Bambi wrote: »

I can't think of a more accurate or elegant term, can you?

Maybe "diverse SOGI" is probably more accurate but not so elegant.

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 10:24pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The Swedish study that has been thoroughly debunked?

But what, a pro trans site?

Color me skeptical. The study speaks for itself.

If all else fails call the guy who wrote it a homophobe and bigot sourcing a blog site.

The study was printed in major publications.

Annasopra · 08-07-2017 10:25pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

But what, a pro trans site?

Color me skeptical. The study speaks for itself.

If all else fails call the guy who wrote a homophobe and bigot.

Know your sources. You are posting extremely biased transphobic and homophobic sources that have been discredited.

Hank Scorpio · 08-07-2017 10:25pm

snowflaker wrote: »

referring to people as "crazies" shows it up perfectly imho

Yup, that's what they are.

Same as fat enablers.

RustyNut · 08-07-2017 10:28pm

Bambi wrote: »

I can't think of a more accurate or elegant term, can you?

People, just people.

Goodshape · 08-07-2017 10:29pm

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It does, because if you start giving crazies a platform that embezzles itself into social norms without scientific evidence, that sets a dangerous precedent.

The acronym has nothing to do with science, or the suicide rate of transgender people. That's all way of topic.

LGBTQIA+

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