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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Spring 2021 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST**

2

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Would hopefully bring a decent covering of snow. Let’s hope it comes off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    What's up with ME they have an orange wind warning for tonight on their weather map on RTE


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    That's the Good Friday Agreement shot :) Bitter Good Friday. Snow showers and -5C at night. 10 April 1998.

    BBC weather forecast from this day. Warning: crap sound


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT7nLoDUp_c

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    What's up with ME they have an orange wind warning for tonight on their weather map on RTE

    Got a notification on my phone about an hour ago as well about potential strong winds.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    1998 had been an amazing Spring up to that. A few 16c days in mid February here. With hazy sunshine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    compsys wrote: »
    The saying is: 'in like a lion, out like a lamb'.

    March usually starts off poor as so close to winter but ends up milder as spring gets underway. Which usually happens in Ireland too - many years our coldest weather is very end of Feb and first few days of March.

    It was always in like a lamb, out like a lion


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    It was always in like a lamb, out like a lion

    I've always hear it both ways. Whatever way it comes in, it invariably will go out the opposite!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Always in like a lion and out like a lamb I heard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »

    Remember 98' well - was living in North Kildare at the time. What stood out was a stupidly warm Feb, followed by a wet,cold April with severe frosts that burnt all the vegetation that had come out early after the mild winter. The following summer was muck too - we defo don't want a rerun in 2021!!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭coillsaille


    As one poster said above, and it's the way I was told growing up, March will always do one or the other. If it comes in like a lion then it will end like a lamb and if it starts out like a lamb it will go out like a lion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,174 ✭✭✭pauldry


    In like a lamb and out like a lamb


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    As one poster said above, and it's the way I was told growing up, March will always do one or the other. If it comes in like a lion then it will end like a lamb and if it starts out like a lamb it will go out like a lion.

    That's it.
    "March many-weathers"
    If you get either very nice or very wild at the start of March the weather basically balances itself out by end March/early April.

    So after the really benign start to March, it's no surprise to see wintery stuff in the charts for next week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    pauldry wrote: »
    In like a lamb and out like a lamb

    My lambs ain't too keen either on today's muck or the muck that's in the forecast:eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Neddyusa wrote: »
    My lambs ain't too keen either on today's muck or the muck that's in the forecast:eek:

    Your lambs have more to worry about than weather !!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Wow! If this comes to fruition it’ll be Narnia for some of us!! Let’s hope so!

    DKyGcpI.png

    Stays for more than 24 hours too.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lets hope not
    Thats Rancid
    The ECM keeps that -10 well out to the northwest and diverts the flow in from the northeast
    A lot of mountain snow showers for the wicklow and Dublin mountains and cold rain for the rest of the East
    Dryer in that scenario further north and west
    Absolute misery below 300 metres


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,336 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Probably wrong forum but fingers crossed this doesn't happen! Most farmers in Wicklow will have a majority of lambs out at that stage. Young lambs don't do well in cold and wet weather never mind heavy snow.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    I think if the ECM came off.. temps would definitely be sufficient for snow, even out to sea.

    We managed sea level snow here on Friday and Friday evening with -6/-7c 850hPa’s and that’s with a Polar Maritime sourced airmass. Others said that it would only snow at altitude - not true.

    This airmass would be from the Arctic, and would have a lower Mixing Ratio, therefore lower dew points.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    GFS. Extremely low thickness values and a North American style cold front. It would be quite unique and exciting to experience.

    -12c at 850hPa, so no higher than 3c Max at the surface in sunshine.

    ZI72XFA.png

    oz7RpJL.png

    About 512 decametres on the east coast of NI

    Z1r9h0d.png

    7zI1oqs.png

    Lasts until Wednesday

    aKGL4ak.png

    Hopefully this comes to fruition. I can’t imagine temps exceeding 2 or 3c even in sunshine, as the freezing level would be about 300 metres max.

    In any showers, the air temperature would be brought down to about -1c or -2c.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭compsys


    Neddyusa wrote: »
    Haven't seen the charts but cold, wet and windy is a safe bet.
    "In like a Lamb, Out like a Lion" is surely the most accurate of all the weather-lore sayings.
    Only remember one or two exceptional years where March didn't play out that way.
    It was always in like a lamb, out like a lion

    A two-second Google will tell you it's: 'in like a lion, out like a lamb' ;)

    Which makes complete sense given the usual weather patterns as we approach mid spring.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    compsys wrote: »
    A two-second Google will tell you it's: 'in like a lion, out like a lamb' ;)

    Which makes complete sense given the usual weather patterns as we approach mid spring.

    As coillsaille and several others above have said;
    The saying goes both ways.
    Google is not always right ;)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    arctictree wrote: »
    Probably wrong forum but fingers crossed this doesn't happen! Most farmers in Wicklow will have a majority of lambs out at that stage. Young lambs don't do well in cold and wet weather never mind heavy snow.

    So true
    I wouldnt discount the GFS version entirely,somethings brewing,albeit brief
    An in the middle blend is possible so at this stage Snow can't be ruled out (or in) at lower levels
    It all depends on any diversion/route the cold pool takes in,as to the where


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I won't worry about covering that polytunnel for another few days so...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    GFS. Extremely low thickness values and a North American style cold front. It would be quite unique and exciting to experience.

    -12c at 850hPa, so no higher than 3c Max at the surface in sunshine.

    ZI72XFA.png

    oz7RpJL.png

    About 512 decametres on the east coast of NI

    Z1r9h0d.png

    7zI1oqs.png

    Lasts until Wednesday

    aKGL4ak.png

    Hopefully this comes to fruition. I can’t imagine temps exceeding 2 or 3c even in sunshine, as the freezing level would be about 300 metres max.

    In any showers, the air temperature would be brought down to about -1c or -2c.

    GFS 18z still has this event in place from the evening of the 4th April.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Jekyll and Hyde look to the models in that next week looks like a taste of summer followed by a plunge back into winter!!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hi all, I was sent this link,

    Looks like a huge drop in temps, very cold possible -10!



    mPKSEND.png


    https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gfs.aspx?charthour=0&chartname=mslp850&chartregion=na-region&charttag=MSLP%20850hPa%20C


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭highdef



    Looks like a huge drop in temps, very cold possible -10!

    Not at sea level or anywhere in the country that anyone lives at. You're just being sensationalist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,174 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Looks like High will be close enough to send that cold to the East.

    Just moderated cold 7 or 8c


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    highdef wrote: »
    Not at sea level or anywhere in the country that anyone lives at. You're just being sensationalist.

    Or perhaps they are just referencing the 850s which are indeed down to -10 on their chart OR they have misinterpreted 850s as surface temperatures which is extremely common with folk unfamiliar with charts.


    We all start somewhere so maybe it would go a long way to not shoot someone down for participating on the forum?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Models still very much trending cold from around next weekend, and currently showing Sunday as the beginning of the coldest weather, ECM carries on out past Thurs, GFS a bit shorter. GFS showing it a bit colder then the ECM at this stage ,as in the chart irishfreeview posted above. GEM and ICON also very much on board and showing similar 850 hPa temps ( 1.5km altitude approx ) as the GFS. ECM showing a new feature by throwing a LP into the mix and current charts showing it very wintry but the finer details are chopping and changing run to run.

    Currently showing daytime temps perhaps something like 4 to 8C or so. ECM does show some very wintry days with large parts of the country lower then this especially the day the Lp moves close to Ireland with -4, -5 850 hPa Temps , showing low level snow accumulations also . But this is out at the end of the run and might not even feature on the next couple of runs, Usually the temperatures moderate somewhat closer to the time and with a LP there is often a lot of mixing going on so the potential often gets watered down , Meteorologically very interesting though.


    lQ9yxxR.gif


    OxWxqcm.gif


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    18z gfs still shows -11/-12c 850hPa for next Monday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭gerrybhoy


    Need to put the BBQ away on Sunday so


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,174 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Even got a temperature of 2c a couple of years ago in April during day. It snowed but after the shower immediately melted as sun too strong now for any of this nonsense. Would need to be -11 or -12c to be exciting.

    I want heat now!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭gerrybhoy


    pauldry wrote: »
    Even got a temperature of 2c a couple of years ago in April during day. It snowed but after the shower immediately melted as sun too strong now for any of this nonsense. Would need to be -11 or -12c to be exciting.

    I want heat now!!
    Same,need some Vit-D on my bones :cool:


  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The sun is as hot now as early September. Was out walking about 2 weeks ago when the temperature was 12°, but it was sunny. A guy walking past me asked me was I “too hot in that”. He meant my coat (which is light).

    I told him it was 12 degrees. He was right though and I took it off a few minutes later.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    So, looking at the GFS model very little has changed from earlier in the week. Here is a summary of the synoptic situation for this cold event.

    The cold event actually starts midday Sunday the 4th April (not the 5th as earlier discussed), with a sharp cold Front:

    rPJVCSw.png

    850hPa temperatures fall to -8c by early afternoon:

    Sw6a4qa.png

    By evening they are at -11c over Ulster:

    3mf5kK4.png

    And later the Eastern and Central swathes of the island:

    1GnuKlf.png

    850hPa temps warm up to -9c over Ulster and -7c/-8c elsewhere on the 5th. This is still productive for snow.

    7QMKqGy.png

    f0vv5I4.png

    Cold Spell ends Midday Tuesday.

    This airmass is very cold:

    Theta E Values (require 10 for guaranteed snow) are as low as the easterly event at +5:

    mWUx1UL.png

    Freezing Level below 400 metres in Ulster by Sunday afternoon:
    qrw4zSZ.png

    Even lower by evening:
    qqunQrM.png

    Moderately low on Monday daylight hours:
    xCLi2dc.png

    This airmass is very cold, I don't see any marginality whatsoever. It is sourced from the Arctic and has very low freezing levels with low Theta e. Definitely all parameters are met for snow to fall down to the surface. However, this is all subject to change and could end up just being cold and sunny.

    It is on par with the easterly we had, if not colder synoptically. What will be interesting is the cold front, it looks as though temps drop from 10c to as low as 2c within an hour.

    xAoDWM9.png
    dlYvmLb.png

    There could be a few centimetres at low levels on Sunday night/Monday night in NW and N parts if showers get going. Again this is all subject to change and is an overview of the situation as predicated at this moment in time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    pauldry wrote: »
    Even got a temperature of 2c a couple of years ago in April during day. It snowed but after the shower immediately melted as sun too strong now for any of this nonsense. Would need to be -11 or -12c to be exciting.

    I want heat now!!

    That is what the 850hPa temps are showing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    The sun is as hot now as early September. Was out walking about 2 weeks ago when the temperature was 12°, but it was sunny. A guy walking past me asked me was I “too hot in that”. He meant my coat (which is light).

    I told him it was 12 degrees. He was right though and I took it off a few minutes later.

    The air isn't as hot though as the land and seas are still relatively cool. If this were September it would be baking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    We were discussing March and the lion/lamb quotations.

    Here's an old one. Today is one of the 'borrowed' days. March borrows a couple of days from April and April from March. Next Monday Tuesday will be two of April's borrowed days from March.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,174 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    That is what the 850hPa temps are showing.

    I mean the air temperatures so this is just freezing boredom then. Heating Bills etc. Hope the cold stays off for most of Easter Sunday. Wev an Easter egg hunt planned with kids


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,207 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    pauldry wrote: »
    I mean the air temperatures so this is just freezing boredom then. Heating Bills etc. Hope the cold stays off for most of Easter Sunday. Wev an Easter egg hunt planned with kids

    -11c is the record low max. You’re not going to get that in April.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭compsys


    The air isn't as hot though as the land and seas are still relatively cool. If this were September it would be baking.

    The Irish sea is about 8º now. In early September it can be as "high' as 16º. Makes a huge difference to those by the coast.


  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The air isn't as hot though as the land and seas are still relatively cool. If this were September it would be baking.

    I know. But 12° sounds colder than it feels when the sun is out. Is my point.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Think some of us could have snow cover on Monday morning and Tuesday morning. Gfs showing a lot of instability and snow showers from a straight northerly.

    Exceeding no more than 2c here.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    And ECM showing another arctic incursion on the 9th!

    Plenty of opportunities for us to get some snow and possible lying snow! Great!

    C9tUxXC.png


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    One of the features showing up in the ECM for the upcoming cold spell from Sunday is potentially strong winds at times, nothing stormy but good strong cold winds with a Northerly aspect. A concern for Horticulturists and farmers I would think, severe shock to animals especially young lambs and calves I would have thought given the wind chill. Looking wintry and possibly hill snow in the W, NW and N and possibly mountains elsewhere, too early for exact details though. Looks like every sort of wintry showers with hail and will see nearer to the time for the risk of thunderstorms.

    UKMO coming into the frame now and looking very cold indeed.

    Could be fairly strong winds on N coasts at times. Some sharp frosts next week on the charts away from the windiest areas. There is no doubt the heating and fires will be needed for a while more.

    Ysz4MiK.gif

    zEp3A59.gif

    roM9Agm.gif

    DKowc4Y.png



    x6KWcc6.gif
    WASPQog.png


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Latest 18z GFS:

    850's are about 1c warmer, however, the cold air lasts into Tuesday evening now.

    oyZmRQQ.png

    JbGzMzv.png

    5ZvGeSH.png

    V8ptnk6.png

    UT8Ax19.png

    Quite a cold day on Monday, with higher elevation areas potentially staying below freezing.

    yhN03Qy.png

    6U5d6J1

    Exceptionally low thickness values:

    OghYZNJ.png

    So a window for snow of almost 3 days - I don't see any marginality. I do see the potential for low level areas to get a covering of snow, maybe even of a few centimetres if this plays out as shown.

    It's hard to know though. I don't think we've had an airmass as cold as this in April in recent times.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    One of the features showing up in the ECM for the upcoming cold spell from Sunday is potentially strong winds at times, nothing stormy but good strong cold winds with a Northerly aspect. A concern for Horticulturists and farmers I would think, severe shock to animals especially young lambs and calves I would have thought given the wind chill. Looking wintry and possibly hill snow in the W, NW and N and possibly mountains elsewhere, too early for exact details though. Looks like every sort of wintry showers with hail and will see nearer to the time for the risk of thunderstorms.

    UKMO coming into the frame now and looking very cold indeed.

    Could be fairly strong winds on N coasts at times. Some sharp frosts next week on the charts away from the windiest areas. There is no doubt the heating and fires will be needed for a while more.

    Ysz4MiK.gif

    zEp3A59.gif

    roM9Agm.gif

    DKowc4Y.png



    x6KWcc6.gif
    WASPQog.png

    Do you not think the very low thickness values (under 516 decametre) would put an end to any marginality?

    I know on Sunday we had snow here down to low levels with -6c/-7c 850hpa values.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Do you not think the very low thickness values (under 516 decametre) would put an end to any marginality?

    I know on Sunday we had snow here down to low levels with -6c/-7c 850hpa values.

    Looking very wintry indeed. Models in general very well aligned. In my very amateur opinion it may well snow to lower levels along Northern counties, maybe a bit inland, would think quite a high chance of snow on hills and mountains which would look spectacular against the bright blue early April sky on Monday. Going to be very windy later Sunday into Monday especially along the coasts. Some showers could be quite convective in nature. Hit and miss, could be some hail belting off the houses. Interested to see what the chance of thunderstorms will be but for now not much shear available, airflow very aligned with the Jet on a N to S route.

    Whatever happens , happens. interesting spell of weather and no doubt a great chance for learning for the weather enthusiast. We will find out why it did or didn't snow in various places and how long it lasted or didn't. All shall be revealed and for me anyway quite an interesting set up.

    ECM keeping the cold theme going out to +240

    ICGoOl7.gif


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