BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

L1011 · 25-01-2019 7:34pm

trellheim wrote: »

I've posted this in Busconnects as there is a lot of changes coming in the area , but I did want to highlight how awful it is at peak and how badly an improved bus service is needed.

Does the railway not go out to Clonsilla at all - does that not take a lot of this ?

You won't get a seat at Clonsilla and getting on the Docklands services at all could be tricky. Bus can work out less annoying for people

chooey · 25-01-2019 11:16pm

I'm not sure whether this has been asked in this thread before but does anyone have any opinions on the Tallaght- Terenure route change, mainly in relation to Templeogue Village. I got sent a booklet today and looking at it, I'm not seeing what the purpose is of widening the road so much in Templeogue Village when there's never a hold up there to having the same bottleneck that is Terenure?

punisher5112 · 25-01-2019 11:29pm

Fairview is a joke with bus lane abuse.

They all drive in the bus lane after the footbridge especially heading for Malahide rd.

The bus stops are then also blocked which allows the whole thing down.

Stephen15 · 25-01-2019 11:54pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Fairview is a joke with bus lane abuse.

They all drive in the bus lane after the footbridge especially heading for Malahide rd.

The bus stops are then also blocked which allows the whole thing down.

I see cars all the time illegally queuing in the bus lane or going into it far too early. One law that needs to be enforced is that you can't go into a bus lane under any circumstances if the bus lane is in use and has a straight white line. At junctions or turns to the left the straight white line becomes a dotted line where cars can cross into the bus lane but I'm sure if you told a Guard that you were left while driving in a bus lane they'd let you off. Turning left is not an excuse for being the bus lane unless it's a dotted line.

MJohnston · 26-01-2019 12:29am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I see cars all the time illegally queuing in the bus lane or going into it far too early. One law that needs to be enforced is that you can't go into a bus lane under any circumstances if the bus lane is in use and has a straight white line. At junctions or turns to the left the straight white line becomes a dotted line where cars can cross into the bus lane but I'm sure if you told a Guard that you were left while driving in a bus lane they'd let you off. Turning left is not an excuse for being the bus lane unless it's a dotted line.

This would be a grand rule if these dotted areas were actually placed correctly and safely. They're often not.

And once you give people the mental space to rationalise going into one bus lane early, they'll do it with all of them.

Look at this classic example of terrible placement:
https://goo.gl/maps/rR9egH57i1S2

There's another category too, and that's where the dotted area is too short in length to accommodate the average amount of traffic trying to turn into it.

The example that comes to mind here is this one:
https://goo.gl/maps/XKb9z7Z9VGt

There's space for about 5 cars in that dotted area, and usually there's at least one bus turning left too, which means no room for any cars. So, if you're trying to turn left, what are you going to do? Legally you're supposed to sit in the middle lane until there's space to move into that left lane in the dotted area, but that means holding up all straight ahead traffic, and most likely the bus lane will be full of taxis who are not well known for their courtesy in letting others out ahead of them.

Now, obviously Bachelor's Walk should be scoured of all private cars, but it's just the example that springs most to my mind as I cycle past it often. There are countless examples like this around Dublin.

Breezer · 26-01-2019 1:50am

Can anyone tell me why there's no provision for a bus lane on South Great George's St/Aungier St on the Rathfarnham spine? Surely this is going to leave a massive bottleneck? Could private car traffic not be diverted along New St South/Patrick St and then down Lord Edward St and Dame St? I'm sure I'm missing something very obvious but it seems to be a very unsatisfactory result to have no bus lane here.

The option to take cyclists off Rathmines Road of all places also boggles the mind.

cgcsb · 26-01-2019 11:29am

I don't get why they don't just send all car traffic onto exchequer st to access car parks and have George's st bus and bike only from there to dame st. There isn't even a need for allowing deliveries here. All the shops along this stretch already get deliveries through dame ct or the delivery area behind the buildings on the west side of the street

punisher5112 · 26-01-2019 2:26pm

If people want change they need to be voicing this and what I see needs to be done and needs full enforcement.

Clearways that are in force untill the last bus is done, deliveries at night, bin collection at night( for this it needs to be out of hours of bus use),

Double yellow lines in many more places but the big issue with these is people are permitted to park if they are loading/unloading so this needs the same idea as the UK where double red lines are a no stop, no park, no loading areas.

Better bus stops that at least 2 buses at one time can fit into safely, cut out this idea that cars, vans and trucks can park right up to the bus stop cage painted on the road as this doesn't leave enough room to get in or out safely.

Better priority at lights, lights that change for the bus, more light set ups at the ends of bus lanes to insure the bus gets out and in a nice safe gap and enforcement of letting buses out to proceed safely.

The travel time is shocking on all our forms of transport and needs speeding up.

Take ramps out of any bus route location, if people speed the enforcement of laws, at school zones fit speed cameras.

So much more can be done but I've mentioned it all before.

XPS_Zero · 26-01-2019 10:12pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

If a bunch of randomers on a forum can see that it's nonsence, you can bet your backside so will the NTA. I'd imagine even Aodhan realises it's nonsense. It's just part of the game to help him (and all other politicians) get elected in 2020.

Don't waste your breath on it folks

You are missing someone to blame there: the voters.

Yes, the voters. Why do you think the politicos pander so relentlessly to the lazy thinking of people who won't look at the big picture? Because those voters are not looking at the big picture, not informing themselves and educating themselves about the wider plan. Peoples attention span also appears to be rapidly shrinking, they won't read up on something that is more than a few lines long, I blame social media for it, but something is dumbing people down. Tha'ts what it comes down to in the end, if you want to survive you have to pander to their ignorance.

salmocab wrote: »

I heard the FF spokes man yesterday Lahart banging on about busses and he doesn’t think BC will happen. I’d like to know what the alternative is to BC surely it’s not to just keep going the way we are he’d have to be a simpleton to think that we can just keep going as we are but it’s not about BC it’s about being opposition they think being in opposition means opposing everything. I’ve no doubt if this we had a FF govt or anyone else they would be taking a different tack and your local FG lad would be starting a campaign.

Sadly that is 100% correct. Remember how they all opposed bank bailouts then implemented them? All opposed cuts then managed to come up with a more regressive version of same cuts after 2011?
It's just a paint by numbers media game.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Tbh I still don't think the issue of Bus Connects is top of most oppostion politicians priorities. I have found that public transport is generally an issue that's fairly low on most politicians priorities.

Troy just spits this stuff out to raise his "profile", they are taught to do this...say ANYTHING on a topic, get your name out there, they know the publics attention span is too short to evaluate WHAT they say or if it makes any actual sense, it will just be AH YEAH I KNOW HIM IVE HEARD/SEEN HIM AROUND, and sadly, pathetically...that is enough to get a lot of peoples vote, and if you pander to an issue without making the fatal mistake of making people actually use their brains to THINK about a topic you are even better in your chances.
Public won't take time away from Strictly come dancing to read the busconnects plan, they only know HIM DERE YEH I KNOW HIM wants to keep my bus in my little corner

Until the electorate becomes a bit more sophisticated and knowledgeable this will keep going. Younger voters under 35 are, whatever is triggering the short attention span in people older than that seems to not be affecting all the younger voters, because on average IME they tend to ask more policy questions and have way more knowledge...but by and large you have dumb politicos because you have dumb, disengaged voters with short attention spans.

I hate it, but it's the brutal reality.

XPS_Zero · 26-01-2019 11:14pm

sharper wrote: »

I honestly have a hard time fitting a 10 year timeline for this into my brain. When I think of 10 years and billions spent I imagine sleek bullet trains hovering over tracks going hundreds of miles per hour.

This plan would be fine if it started 10 years ago and was coming online now to meet current demand. Instead they're planning infrastructure now that would only be adequate for current demand.

What are projected traffic and transport levels for 2027? Are they going to wait until 2027 and then spend a few years thinking what's next and roll out the next plans in 2030 due to be finished by 2040?

Going by the official stats for residential units nearly 9000 commenced in 2018. I don't expect that number to drop off anytime soon so we're going to be adding thousands per year to the roads and transport network.

I know I'm like a broken record on this but I don't care...yes, you are right.

One thing our system has as a major flaw is lack of long term strategic thinking. The electorate here rewards political leaders for short term thinking. Until the last 4-5 years if you promised a tax cut or welfare increase your party got in, if you promised structural reforms or infrastructure changes that would take years you were screwed.

Now this has had a weird knock on effect. Consider that in the last few years, as a result of the recession, people are thinking more long term and are starting to wake up to the idea that a better PT system is preferable to an extra 20-30 a week in their pocket from a welfare hike or a tax cut they'll barely notice, and focus group and poll results have told us that the public prefers investment over tax cuts, which is why Leos strategy of tax cuts has not really taken off with the public no matter how much they hate USC.

The thing getting in the way of this is while they do prefer investment they are wary when they are told something will take 10 years plus for the reason you cite above, and another reason....

Previous projects (metro metro metro) have been announced and canceled and re announced so many times they are considered a mirage that will never come. What happened with Metro (which I remind you was meant to be running by now) is that it has crushed the publics faith in these long term projects, not only was scrapping it and the Luas expansions (with CC exception) a huge economic blunder (when it would have been an ideal stimulus project in the recession and retained many of our builders and engineers now living in Canada and Aus) but it was a political disaster too.
Now when you say "we'll have x by 2020" they flat out, 100% just don't believe you.

So there is an odd paradox they want more investment but when you tell them it will take time they don't buy it.

So you have an electorate that does not trust long term plans combined with a history of short term thinking in terms of their priorities.

v

bk wrote: »

I attended one of these local meetings, in fairness, there most have been over 100 very high quality brochures from the NTA there, focused on the routes of my local areas. Plus slides and big map print outs on the wall.

The councillor who had organised the meeting had also previously meet with the NTA and was pretty well informed, I was pretty impressed with this councillor. I was however unimpressed by the Minister who turned up half way through.

It would have been better if someone from the NTA was there, but it would have been a hard job with the screaming lad from PBP there shouting nonsense and the hundred or so OAPs who just don't want change full stop and aren't interested in listening.

The thing about the PBP is they 've declared in advance they'll never enter government (sorry sorry ''right wing government'' which would be everyone who is not them, so never, ever), and when you know you will never ever have to actually govern, you can promise anything to anyone anytime, you never have to make any zero sum choices or decisions, you can promise to have high frequency, geographic spread of C/D/E/F/G/H versions of routes covering every housing estate so Mary does not have to walk far, and low fares with high paid drivers and expanded free travel all at the same time..because you know full well you'll never have to actually sit down and make a practical plan to turn those goals into reality.

CatInABox wrote: »

This gave me a good laugh, the Irish Times opines on the future of Dublin.

"Official defensiveness and political cowardice, along with deep-seated inertia, have obstructed innovation in the city", which is accurate, but totally ignores their own behaviour when it comes to projects that are innovative. Their behaviour around BusConnects and Metrolink is nothing short of appalling.

They are like this with everything.

They get frustrated when they know that TD x does not agree with party policy on issue y but won't state that disagreement on their radio show or tv show or in their paper or on their website. They imply you are just a robot who is afraid to show some guts.
But if you do say you disagree they won't write it up like adults having a respectful disagreement they'll write it up as:

PARTY SPLIT? X X TD CHALLENGES (PARTY LEADER)'S POSITION
TD X has split with his party on issue y firing a shot across the bow of party leader (whoever) ....

devnull wrote: »

The journo is now playing dumb, even when BusConnects correct him, he continues to deny!

https://twitter.com/magicbathtub/status/1054418913319157761

It seems the standard of journalism is even worse than I thought, not only are they spouting incorrect information, but they are also now refusing to back down when proven to be incorrect.

Considering all of the articles in the IT about BusConnects, from the woman with the massive garden and now this and all of the rest of it, I think it's reasonable to ask exactly why is the IT going all out against BusConnects?

Just as with the politicos you must think of the voters, with the journos you must think of the readers.

What gets you clicks and likes on social media? (which is all the news is turning into a version of sadly) EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS. Sure a video of a cat and a lion being friends might get a lot of focus but usually what gets people going is ANGER, OUTRAGE, JUDGEMENT...oh they LOOOOOOOOOOVE the judgement they love to attack total strangers they've never met...but in this case it's the anger.

They know they will get far more clicks and likes and thus ad revenue from an article that says:

NEW BUS PLAN WILL RUIN YOUR BUS JOURNEY

than

RADICAL NEW BUS PLAN WILL IMPROVE JOURNEY TIME, FREQUENCY

The first one will get people going, outrage motivates voters to go to the polls more than a positive constructive plan annd it motivates the dead inside zombies staring at screens most people have turned into to click on a headline.

On another note, the shameless pandering by a lot of FF people on this topic makes me cringe as a member every time I see it. What you need to appreciate is that the party having a history of being in govt more often than the others, and having an ideological outlook that attracts people from the centre to centre left (there is a reason the labour party never took off here like the UK, FF had most of their policy agenda taken up), and even a smattering of people who (thankfully dying off) were right wing on social issues.

This combination of broad church ideology and being the dominant party of govt has led to the party attracting a huge number of careerists, by which I mean people who want to get to the top but have no idea what they would do when they got there other than enjoy being at the top.
Thus, having no principles, policy opinions, ideology, outlook or grand plan, they shamelessly and relentlessly pander, leaping on whatever bandwagon happens to be running by. Millenial voters are wise to the type, but older voters tend not to be. Head office usually rolls their eyes at them and puts them in races where they have little chance, but a few of them are good enough at pandering that they might make it and HQ sees them as another vote in the council etc so how can that be bad. Former student union experience is usually a giant red flag when spotting these clowns.

I beg you not to think of them as representative of the party, it has changed a lot with a lot of new younger members, and continues to change, which has also resulted in a policy shift, but while it's resurgence has also attracted careerist hacks, they are not representative. f---k um I say.

sharper · 06-02-2019 3:11pm

It looks like the next phase of opposition to busconnects is based around some vague idea of not wanting unsightly widened roads or extra traffic

https://twitter.com/DeirdreConroyIE/status/1092054067717775360

Special mention for the green party's "Architect Planner Educator" who can't grasp the point of an illustration

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1092880765870899200

marno21 · 06-02-2019 4:42pm

sharper wrote: »

It looks like the next phase of opposition to busconnects is based around some vague idea of not wanting unsightly widened roads or extra traffic

https://twitter.com/DeirdreConroyIE/status/1092054067717775360

Poor public transport access in areas which drives people to car dependence also doesn't work. See America.

Such absolute scutter we'll have to endure until the local elections are over. It'll be the scuttermageddon when the Metrolink route is also published in March.

BeerNut · 06-02-2019 6:32pm

sharper wrote: »

It looks like the next phase of opposition to busconnects is based around some vague idea of not wanting unsightly widened roads or extra traffic

The LOKRA crew ("Community Not A Corridor") are of the belief that Lower Kimmage Road is some kind of village rather than a main thoroughfare. The organisers seem to be mostly at the Harolds Cross end, who now know they're not getting CPO'd and will still have local access when the bus gate goes up. The only problem for them now, as far as I can see, is that they'll lose their dangerous and obstructive on-street parking. There will be considerably less traffic on their stretch of road when BusConnects is in effect.

john boye · 06-02-2019 7:23pm

sharper wrote: »

Special mention for the green party's "Architect Planner Educator" who can't grasp the point of an illustration

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1092880765870899200

Wow, that is just special

cgcsb · 07-02-2019 12:32am

Yet another sound illustration of why you should never vote for the anti Green Party who seem to oppose virtually every pro environmental sustainability measure. I don't see trees in the diagram. Jesus wept

Hotblack Desiato · 07-02-2019 2:59am

I read today that 1200 people a year in Ireland are dying because of air pollution, how much of that is due to the "Greens" boneheaded drive for diseasel cars?

AlmightyCushion · 07-02-2019 3:08am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I read today that 1200 people a year in Ireland are dying because of air pollution, how much of that is due to the "Greens" boneheaded drive for diseasel cars?

There's also no wind turbines or solar panels in the diagram so it really shows how much the nta hate the environment. I don't see why puppies in it either. What does the nta have against puppies?!?!

Hurrache · 07-02-2019 10:50am

Lads, I think you're getting a bit hysterical over a comment about a slide.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-02-2019 11:32am

Hurrache wrote: »

Lads, I think you're getting a bit hysterical over a comment about a slide.

Nope, guy has shown himself up as a complete muppet so it's fair comment to point out that he's shown himself up as a complete muppet...

HatchSt · 07-02-2019 11:39am

Hurrache wrote: »

Lads, I think you're getting a bit hysterical over a comment about a slide.

I think it’s councilor Cuffe who is guilty of hysteria. He pays lip service to public transport by claiming to be in favour of Bus Connects but his only contribution to the debate this week has been his disingenuous tweet about one slide in a very detailed presentation.

schemingbohemia · 07-02-2019 12:51pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Nope, guy has shown himself up as a complete muppet so it's fair comment to point out that he's shown himself up as a complete muppet...

HatchSt wrote: »

I think it’s councilor Cuffe who is guilty of hysteria. He pays lip service to public transport by claiming to be in favour of Bus Connects but his only contribution to the debate this week has been his disingenuous tweet about one slide in a very detailed presentation.

If you actually read the thread he accepted it was for illustrative purposes but, in fairness, was highlighting the need for some urban landscape planning to be considered as part of the programme. I don't think the NTA are doing themselves any favours by utilising slides that are a bit grim, just think if they had included some nice landscaping in the slides how much more acceptable they might be to people who are undecided on the proposals.
The slides used aren't exactly helpful to my mind in creating acceptance of the proposals and could be perceived as giving credence to some of the NIMBYs who are sh1ting on about urban motorways, as Beernut stated above.

HatchSt · 07-02-2019 1:22pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

If you actually read the thread he accepted it was for illustrative purposes but, in fairness, was highlighting the need for some urban landscape planning to be considered as part of the programme. I don't think the NTA are doing themselves any favours by utilising slides that are a bit grim, just think if they had included some nice landscaping in the slides how much more acceptable they might be to people who are undecided on the proposals.
The slides used aren't exactly helpful to my mind in creating acceptance of the proposals and could be perceived as giving credence to some of the NIMBYs who are sh1ting on about urban motorways, as Beernut stated above.

But the slide Cuffe highlighted is not a representation of the bus corridor scheme!

Were the the details of the scheme not shown in detail elsewhere in the presentation? Or in printed documentation provided to attendees?

schemingbohemia · 07-02-2019 1:41pm

HatchSt wrote: »

But the slide Cuffe highlighted is not a representation of the bus corridor scheme!

Were the the details of the scheme not shown in detail elsewhere in the presentation? Or in printed documentation provided to attendees?

I don't know, wasn't there. Am only going on the tweet I saw and the thread below his tweet. Yeah it did all get confused in the mix.

Dyr · 07-02-2019 2:02pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I don't think the NTA are doing themselves any favours by utilising slides that are a bit grim, just think if they had included some nice landscaping in the slides how much more acceptable they might be to people who are undecided on the proposals.

Maybe its an accurate representation of what they're proposing, Their existing infrastructure is equally grim.

Perhaps, in a fit of uncharacteristic honesty, they're not trying to pretend that widening roads and chopping down trees for bus lanes is gong to make the city more attractive. :eek:

L1011 · 07-02-2019 2:29pm

It's a slide indicating equivalent capacity, not a suggestion of what'll be built in the slightest. It was ripped out of context by a politician running in I think two elections in May to try remind people he exists

MJohnston · 07-02-2019 2:32pm

sharper wrote: »

Special mention for the green party's "Architect Planner Educator" who can't grasp the point of an illustration

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1092880765870899200

Are ye serious? He literally says "I get the point but..."

Anyone who actually thinks Cuffe is anti-transport is talking out their arse for a few 'thanks' clicks. I'm not particularly aligned with most of Green Party Ireland's policies, but Cuffe personally does a lot of excellent work as a councilor for Dublin city transport, for its pedestrian-scape, and for its cyclists.

Edit: even the mods are at this. Do some fücking research lads.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-02-2019 2:36pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

If you actually read the thread

I did read the thread. He made himself look like a complete fool.

sharper · 07-02-2019 2:38pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Are ye serious? He literally says "I get the point but..."

I understand what you're saying but why do you hate renewable energy so much? I don't see a single reference to solar power in your post and really it's about time more people understood it's the future.

#voteforme

devnull · 07-02-2019 8:42pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Edit: even the mods are at this. Do some fücking research lads.

Just a reminder.

1) First of all please be civil at all times.
2) Mods of other forums are treated as regular users by C+T Mods and should be by you too.

- Moderator

MJohnston · 08-02-2019 10:50am

sharper wrote: »

I understand what you're saying but why do you hate renewable energy so much? I don't see a single reference to solar power in your post and really it's about time more people understood it's the future.

#voteforme

Yes, yes, very glib. But you would have to be some kind of brainless idiot to think I hate renewable energy by taking one post that doesn't mention it out of context of a body of evidence that suggests otherwise. You wouldn't do that would you?

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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