BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

cherryghost

Basically all of Crumlin road has land retake, pretty much as expected. The massive bottleneck at Dean St is still there, the only solution being a 'bus only' light taking priority over other vehicles.

Telchak

cherryghost wrote: »

Basically all of Crumlin road has land retake, pretty much as expected. The massive bottleneck at Dean St is still there, the only solution being a 'bus only' light taking priority over other vehicles.

This is particularly disappointing, it's the single worst spot on that corridor. I get a ridiculously earlier bus than I need to every morning just because I've been screwed over so many times at this one spot.

tom1ie

very underwhelmed by route 10 along the templeogue road. They could have really went for it and took a meter or two off the gardens along here for a city bound bus lane and the same could have been done regards terenure college. On the other hand this would have got busses quicker into terenure village where spine route 10 merges with spine route 12 which might have complicated things.

G-Man

Was the plan for Tallaght via crumlin road done by some low level AI, it so bad.

Opposite Crumlin childrens hospital, they propose taking a strip of garden off 25 home owners.. Why not take 1 strip off the hospital (which is due to move shortly ) parking instead of riling up 25 home owners

tom1ie

pity cars couldn't be diverted down a parallel road to georges street/ aungier street. Then there could be a two way bus lane along that route. This part of the route is such a bottleneck, your actually quicker walking from d.i.t towards central bank most of the time.

cgcsb

tom1ie wrote: »

pity cars couldn't be diverted down a parallel road to georges street/ aungier street. Then there could be a two way bus lane along that route. This part of the route is such a bottleneck, your actually quicker walking from d.i.t towards central bank most of the time.

Agree although with a pedestrian college green and a bus only parliament st, the volumes would be lower. If it were me I would all traffic turn onto exchequer st and make the dame st end of George's st bus only

eyeball kid

Very misleading headline in today's Indo 'Traffic lights on M50 part of disruptions under Bus Connects plan'

They're on about lights on the Coldcut bridge!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traffic-lights-on-m50-part-of-disruptions-under-bus-connects-plan-37744021.html

Seth Brundle

I was about to post that also.
Typical Indo shíte

Evil_g

So even the best parts (from a cyclist's perspective) are going to have a bus stop in the cycle lane every few hundred meters?

I know they have to work with what they've got (or can realistically hope to CPO) but is this the best that can be done? How does this compare to best practice internationally?

eyeball kid

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I was about to post that also.
Typical Indo shíte

They read it out on Newstalk Breakfast this morning in their headlines piece as well.

cherryghost

Evil_g wrote: »

So even the best parts (from a cyclist's perspective) are going to have a bus stop in the cycle lane every few hundred meters?

I know they have to work with what they've got (or can realistically hope to CPO) but is this the best that can be done? How does this compare to best practice internationally?

Was thinking the same thing. I thought the aim was complete segregation. It's still way better than most corridors at this moment, but a bit disappointing nonetheless

Evil_g

cherryghost wrote: »

Was thinking the same thing. I thought the aim was complete segregation. It's still way better than most corridors at this moment, but a bit disappointing nonetheless

Just reading to the end of the Kimmage Brochure (from page 38).

It looks like they're directing cyclists away from the bus corridors in some locations, through residential areas with "Priority arrangement junctions" to suit cyclists (whatever that means). It looks like the strategy might be to get cyclists to the canal, from where the cycle path is excellent.

That might work. I'd be interested to hear more.

I'm not even a cyclist, but I'd like to be. You'd want to be mad to cycle in Dublin at the moment.

[edit] They're even proposing a new cyclist / pedestrian bridge over the canal at Grove Road (page 42). That sounds like a great idea.

L1011

G-Man wrote: »

Opposite Crumlin childrens hospital, they propose taking a strip of garden off 25 home owners.. Why not take 1 strip off the hospital (which is due to move shortly ) parking instead of riling up 25 home owners

Because the HSE are considering retaining the hospital for adult hospital purposes and doing that would make the helipad inoperable.

Heartbreak Hank

Evil_g wrote: »

Just reading to the end of the Kimmage Brochure (from page 38).

It looks like they're directing cyclists away from the bus corridors in some locations, through residential areas with "Priority arrangement junctions" to suit cyclists (whatever that means). It looks like the strategy might be to get cyclists to the canal, from where the cycle path is excellent.

That might work. I'd be interested to hear more.

I'm not even a cyclist, but I'd like to be. You'd want to be mad to cycle in Dublin at the moment.

[edit] They're even proposing a new cyclist / pedestrian bridge over the canal at Grove Road (page 42). That sounds like a great idea.

Some of those junctions currently have kerbs across the direction of the proposed cycle routes. I presume they mean to make them cycling accessible and give the right of way in that direction too.

Example

That section of the canal to the west of Portabello where they are directing people isn't as good a standard as east of it where it is segregated. If everywhere was as good as that section I would think loads more people would cycle.

Evil_g

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

That section of the canal to the west of Portabello where they are directing people isn't as good a standard as east of it where it is segregated. If everywhere was as good as that section I would think loads more people would cycle.

Another set of traffic lights across what is already a very congested Grove Road will be interesting too.

I wonder are they going to release similar infrastructure plans for the orbital routes any time soon?

On first look, the interchanges at Sundrive - Lower Kimmage Road, and South Circular - Richmond Street, don't look all that well thought out.

i.e. It looks like a bit of a trek from one bus stop to another.

Surely these elements are critical to plans?

(I'm trying not to be critical by the way...in general this all looks very positive)

cgcsb

Evil_g wrote: »

I wonder are they going to release similar infrastructure plans for the orbital routes any time soon?

I think this is crucial, especially for the proper functioning of the proposed O route. Unfortunately this seems to be long fingered.

cherryghost

Don't forget 2027 is the target. 8 years from now. Their 'current' bus journey time for many of the routes is already inaccurate. The service is already heaving and need of immediate attention, some action needs to be take now. People's QoL is degrading month-on-month because of it. I hope the final proposed route implementations are out soon.

purple hands

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

Some of those junctions currently have kerbs across the direction of the proposed cycle routes. I presume they mean to make them cycling accessible and give the right of way in that direction too.

Example

Will be very interested to hear what's planned for this, those kerbs are there for donkey's years apparently but its still a bit of a rat run at times

Evil_g

purple hands wrote: »

Will be very interested to hear what's planned for this, those kerbs are there for donkey's years apparently but its still a bit of a rat run at times

Looks like they're planning a bike lane through St. Mary's School in Rathmines too. Between the school and the front Rugby field.

Charles O'Carroll Kelly has probably already sent his letter to the Times.

Hotblack Desiato

Anyone know what the point of the short bus-only stretch on Kildare Road is?

Also why motorcyclists are being ignored? It says buses, cyclists and taxis only will be allowed on that stretch. There's no traffic or safety reason to not allow motorcycles past the restriction, as they are on George's St right turn onto Dame St for instance.

cgcsb

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Anyone know what the point of the short bus-only stretch on Kildare Road is?

Going out on a limb here, but I'd say it's to reduce the numbers of cars sharing road space with buses thus improving bus journey time and reliability.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Also why motorcyclists are being ignored? It says buses, cyclists and taxis only will be allowed on that stretch. There's no traffic or safety reason to not allow motorcycles past the restriction, as they are on George's St right turn onto Dame St for instance.

Same as every bus lane in Dublin. Motorcycles use them, even though most often there's no mention of them on a sign, and because of the confusion the gardaí aren't going to stop anyone.

Dyr

cherryghost wrote: »

Don't forget 2027 is the target. 8 years from now. Their 'current' bus journey time for many of the routes is already inaccurate. The service is already heaving and need of immediate attention, some action needs to be take now. People's QoL is degrading month-on-month because of it. I hope the final proposed route implementations are out soon.

The really funny thing is the hope that if you throw even more resources at organisations which have shown they cant manage resources theyll somehow come up trumps

Hotblack Desiato

cgcsb wrote: »

Going out on a limb here, but I'd say it's to reduce the numbers of cars sharing road space with buses thus improving bus journey time and reliability.

Glib answer to say the least

Why there? Why such a short stretch?

Same as every bus lane in Dublin. Motorcycles use them, even though most often there's no mention of them on a sign, and because of the confusion the gardaren't going to stop anyone.

You didn't read my post properly, did you.

monument

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Glib answer to say the least

Why there? Why such a short stretch?

Because when you reduce traffic to local, one-way and no through travel for cars, then the congestion is massively eased without needing bus lanes along the road and still allowing for access.

trellheim

I wanted to show some of the problems around Blackhall Place

Shot 1: Tuesday this week time 1800 Blackhall Place looking north from the bus stop - every private car is in the bus lane and its jammed

Shot 2 : Turn 180 degrees after walking past the gates - three buses stuck in said bus lane, 39a full to the brim , 37 full to the brim, and 70 full to the brim . At Law library, Stoneybatter, Manor Street and Prussia St there were people left behind ( I walked up as there was no point waiting )

So every busis completely packed out and savage problems with traffic as well - improvements here cant come fast enough .

Hotblack Desiato

monument wrote: »

Because when you reduce traffic to local, one-way and no through travel for cars, then the congestion is massively eased without needing bus lanes along the road and still allowing for access.

Another glib non-answer that could be applied to the entire city.

markpb

trellheim wrote: »

So every bus is completely packed out and savage problems with traffic as well - improvements here cant come fast enough .

It's a pity we don't have a police force armed with a copy of the Road Traffic Acts and a notebook for recording fines to be issued.

Once that's done, the council could install a few flappy wands (like N1 approaching Whitehall) or, preferably, kerbs between the bus lane and regular lane.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

I wanted to show some of the problems around Blackhall Place

Shot 1: Tuesday this week time 1800 Blackhall Place looking north from the bus stop - every private car is in the bus lane and its jammed

Shot 2 : Turn 180 degrees after walking past the gates - three buses stuck in said bus lane, 39a full to the brim , 37 full to the brim, and 70 full to the brim . At Law library, Stoneybatter, Manor Street and Prussia St there were people left behind ( I walked up as there was no point waiting )

So every busis completely packed out and savage problems with traffic as well - improvements here cant come fast enough .

It's such a badly designed flow, among many in Dublin that is absolutely broken, but DCC refuse to even bother.

Most of the private cars on Blackhall Place want to continue north towards Prussia Street, but the tailbacks from the badly placed crossing lights at Arbour Place usually mean that there is a line of traffic coming back onto Blackhall Place.

Which means if you're in a private car coming up there, you have two options - stay in the right lane until the bus lane ends and then block right-turning traffic while trying to cut in, or pull into the bus lane early and leave the right lane for right turning traffic. These are both terrible options, but they're the only ones available - the first option is probably the "correct" one, but then you have the problem of 'jumping the queue'.

I would pick one of two solutions:
1. Keep the left lane on Blackhall Place fully bus lane, the whole way to the lights, and bollard block it. Change the right lane to allow for straight ahead and right turning traffic. Then signal control the flow here, like the lights on Bachelor's Walk - one light for the left bus lane, one light for the right lane (which would have a simultaneous right turn filter lane to prevent blockages that way). Additionally, remove all the parking spots north from Blackhall Place until just after DrinkStore on Manor Street (I think this might be already banned during peak hours). And then move the crossing lights from where they are at Arbour Place a bit further north to just after the bus stops at the Centra.
2. Northbound on Manor Street becomes bus only. All other traffic must turn right off Blackhall Place. In return, rearrange the junction of North Brunswick Street and Grangegorman Lower, so that traffic from Blackhall Place can access Grangegorman Lower. Then you either allow traffic to get back to Manor Street via Kirwan Street (signalise the junction with Manor Street), or force it up onto NCR (which has terrible traffic at the best of times because the lights at Hanlon's Corner are dismally timed.

trellheim

I've posted this in Busconnects as there is a lot of changes coming in the area , but I did want to highlight how awful it is at peak and how badly an improved bus service is needed.

Does the railway not go out to Clonsilla at all - does that not take a lot of this ?

sharper

trellheim wrote: »

Does the railway not go out to Clonsilla at all - does that not take a lot of this ?

The Maynooth line does go to Clonsilla but the problem is the trains are full.

I regularly get a bus that leaves from Westmoreland street and goes to Maynooth. It's often totally full by the second stop. It should make a lot more sense to get the train but the capacity isn't there and it won't be for a long time.

That's also a weakness in the Busconnects plan for any area with a train line. One of the input assumptions is to assume people would get the train.