TCD Cancel Richard Dawkins.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:28pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

So there's exactly zero instances of the Irish language been uttered before a suicide bombing and many instances of the Islamic equivalent. Not seeing how they "exactly the same" to be honest.

A lot of protestants in the north don't see it your way.

And several IRA members on being released from prison did interviews etc in Irish or wanted it to be known they had learnt irish in prison.

Sinn Fein have always been associated with the language.

Perhaps the IRA and SF and the North etc are not so black and white but grey ...but there is an association for some. Erroneously as it may be from our point of view.

Those people of course ..are not moderates in the north ...they are the like of Curry my yoghurt guy ...but some of the things That Dawkins says are not moderate and are no better than curry my yoghurt.

I mean his comments on the muslim call to prayer and allah akbar were VERY 'Curry My Yoghurt'.

The Curry My Yoghurt guy ...ah iconic.

Let him forever be known as the Curry My Yoghurt Guy. And nothing more.

Kraftwerk · 28-09-2020 10:34pm

I'd say he draws the usual protests wherever he goes. Unfortunately this time there seems to be some moron in charge of the bookings who's lived under a rock her entire life, can't read a wiki page and got spooked by a few complaints.

It doesn't bode well for future of an university when the faculty are happy to cancel anyone who draws a few complaints for fear of making anyone uncomfortable.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:35pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

If someone screamed Tiocfaidh Ar La I'd tell them to shut up.

If you were a protestant in the North you would be worried. Probably if you were English in Dublin you would be too.

Just like if I saw a union jack and someone shouted no surrender at me in the north I would be worried.

ToddDameron · 28-09-2020 10:36pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

A lot of protestants in the north don't see it your way.

And several IRA members on being released from prison did interviews etc in Irish or wanted it to be known they had learnt irish in prison.

Sinn Fein have always been associated with the language.

Perhaps the IRA and SF and the North etc are not so black and white but grey ...but there is an association for some. Erroneously as it may be from our point of view.

Those people of course ..are not moderates in the north ...they are the like of Curry my yoghurt guy ...but some of the things That Dawkins says are not moderate and are no better than curry my yoghurt.

You're talking about something different now. Irish being associated with terrorist activity in the North is one thing. There's no Irish equivalent to the phrase "Allahu Akbar" in the context of suicide bombings.

Dawkins said it's a phrase that's heard before suicide bombings, there is evidence to back that claim. There is no Irish equivalent to that scenario.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:37pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

You're talking about something different now. Irish being associated with terrorist activity in the North is one thing. There's no Irish equivalent to the phrase "Allahu Akbar" in the context of suicide bombings.

Dawkins said it's a phrase that's heard before suicide bombings, there is evidence to back that claim. There is no Irish equivalent to that scenario.

You don't really think he fears hearing Allah Akbar do you?

He just had an itch to say a nasty thing.

Kinda petty.

He is just angry.

ToddDameron · 28-09-2020 10:38pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If you were a protestant in the North you would be worried. Probably if you were English in Dublin you would be too.

Just like if I saw a union jack and someone shouted no surrender at me in the north I would be worried.

So you're saying what Dawkins said about Allahu Akbar being worrisome is a fair statement then?

Bellbottoms · 28-09-2020 10:38pm

Kraftwerk wrote: »

It doesn't bode well for future of an university when the faculty are happy to cancel anyone who draws a few complaints for fear of making anyone uncomfortable.

It is not the faculty it is a student society. That arranges talks for its members. The members decided they were not happy with him speaking so he was cancelled.

28-09-2020 10:39pm

The pigeon man wrote: »

It's sad to see that people worry more about comfort than freedom of speech.

During my time in college I have been challenged, brought out of my comfort zone to learn new things that are you use to me during my working life.

If there is a disagreement with a lecturer you should engage in a coherent, reasoned debate to address the issue, not shut down the speaker.

I think it's important to point out here that this was not a talk organised by the college as some sort of debate, as quite a few posters seem to have implied.

My understanding anyway, is that it was a one-sided address organised by a student-run society for its members. Leadership of the society received complaints based on the members' knowledge of the speaker. If the paying members are already aware of what he thinks, and don't agree with supporting the man in any way, then I think that's fair enough. It's a very different situation to a bunch of snowflakes not wanting to be challenged - they've already engaged with his opinions and have no interest in paying him to pontificate to them.

Absoluvely · 28-09-2020 10:39pm

Another TCD student society, 'The Phil', invited him and had him speak there in 2013, as their flagship event of the year. Times have changed.

The Phil Inaugural - "Darwin's Five Bridges" with Richard Dawkins
Ticketed at 10am Wednesday March 20th, Phil Conversation Room, GMB.

The Phil's flagship event of the year, the Inaugural, will this year feature Richard Dawkins, the ethologist, evolutionary biologist and author. The President of the Phil will make a speech, followed by an address by Prof. Dawkins entitled "Darwin's Five Bridges", and a Q&A with the audience. He will then receive the Gold Medal of Honorary Patronage of the society. The dress is black tie for all in attendance.

https://www.facebook.com/events/550007878373466/

yuridwyer · 28-09-2020 10:44pm

Kraftwerk wrote: »

I'd say he draws the usual protests wherever he goes. Unfortunately this time there seems to be some moron in charge of the bookings who's lived under a rock her entire life, can't read a wiki page and got spooked by a few complaints.

It doesn't bode well for future of an university when the faculty are happy to cancel anyone who draws a few complaints for fear of making anyone uncomfortable.

I don't agree with Trinity for cancelling Dawkins, but it's not a long term issue.

I don't agree with Dawkins on everything he says (but agree on most of what he says). I don't agree with Iloveyourvibes on 99% of what they've written on this thread, but that doesn't matter either.

Truth is, everything, LITERALLY everything, goes in cycles - while there is cancel culture now, suppressing the likes of Dawkins, in 5 years there will be the opposite where you'll have the crazies on the other side of the line spouting their hateful opinions, and Trinity will be lining them up to speak.....

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:44pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

So you're saying what Dawkins said about Allahu Akbar being worrisome is a fair statement then?

I didn't mean to imply this.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:45pm

yuridwyer wrote: »

I don't agree with Iloveyourvibes on 99% of what they've written on this thread, but that doesn't matter either.

:mad:

nthclare · 28-09-2020 10:50pm

yuridwyer wrote: »

I don't agree with Trinity for cancelling Dawkins, but it's not a long term issue.

I don't agree with Dawkins on everything he says (but agree on most of what he says). I don't agree with Iloveyourvibes on 99% of what they've written on this thread, but that doesn't matter either.

Truth is, everything, LITERALLY everything, goes in cycles - while there is cancel culture now, suppressing the likes of Dawkins, in 5 years there will be the opposite where you'll have the crazies on the other side of the line spouting their hateful opinions, and Trinity will be lining them up to speak.....

I seriously don't know what's going on in society, with the cancel culture.

Hopefully it's a phase, and we're in rinse cycle and there will be less dirty laundry when it's gone through the cycle.

buried · 28-09-2020 10:52pm

TheBlackPill wrote: »

The european origin islamist suicide attacker seem to be completely voluntary

A vast majority of these Islamist attackers were inspired by Abu Musab Al Suri, a former cadre and rival of Osama Bin Laden, whose writings in the previous 5 years before the major European attacks said to his followers to attack the middle classes, not organised hierarchies such as politicians, military or landmarks. His twisted viewpoint, at odds with Bin laden, was that if terrorists attack those targets, military, political institutions etc, the Islamists get bombed to $hit. Which is what happened. Al Suri said to attack the middle class people, attack them in the bars, shops, cafe's, gigs, sporting events, because he said "they believe in nothing, so you can frighten them".

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:52pm

Permission to express myself artistically!
No? Ok thanks.

The role of the moon is not to shine light to get rid of the darkness ...its to illuminate not eliminate. Its to help us understand.There is a Russian film called Burnt by the Sun. Its about purges in Russia in the name of helping people.Trying to achieve perfection on earth leads to purges. We are not meant to get rid of imperfect people. We are meant to try to understand them. The darkness cannot understand the light. The blind cannot see. Dawkins can't understand muslims. And he never will be able to. But we can understand him. The light in us can. through our empathy ...we can understand him. Our job isn't to get rid of him or change him. But to understand him. Sometimes people feel to do the right thing is to change or get rid of the imperfect or morally blind. It isn't .

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 10:53pm

nthclare wrote: »

I seriously don't know what's going on in society, with the cancel culture.

Hopefully it's a phase, and we're in rinse cycle and there will be less dirty laundry when it's gone through the cycle.

You have to wear those pants again though!

28-09-2020 10:58pm

The trouble is, when you're a public figure and speak as often as Dawkins does, you're going to say some stupid stuff. I've been a big fan of his for a long time and have read all his books but have found myself tutting to things he says more often in recent times. On the alcohol/rape thing, I get what he was trying to say, but for a fella with a beautiful way with words in his books, he made that particular point abysmally.

All in all, he should 100% be speaking.

ToddDameron · 28-09-2020 10:58pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply this.

Not being funny but I'm struggling to understand your viewpoint. You said you would be worried if you heard a protestant say"no surrender." But simultaneously criticise Dawkins for his opinion on "allahu akbar." Sounds like you are both on the same page.

nthclare · 28-09-2020 11:00pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have to wear those pants again though!

I'll wear it with pride without the prejudice

Zookey123 · 28-09-2020 11:01pm

This really is a low point for TCD. Huge Dawkins fan and I don't agree with 100% of what he says but complaining about him and ruining it for everyone else is so annoying. People need to learn how to have a discussion and not just stick your head in the sand when you hear a differing opinion.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 11:04pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

Not being funny but I'm struggling to understand your viewpoint. You said you would be worried if you heard a protestant say"no surrender." But simultaneously criticise Dawkins for his opinion on "allahu akbar." Sounds like you are both on the same page.

I am imperfect. Therefore I would worry if I heard no surrender.

But also ..i have been conditioned and I recognize this.

Whereas I have heard allah Akbar shouted in very celebratory happy joyous ways. So i am not conditioned to have the same response.

I can understand why a victim of a bombing would HAVE such a response.

As i said in another post. Its very human.

Im not so sure Dawkins not having been through a terrorist event has been so traumatized or conditioned.

Rather i feel he has been attacked by the left or ...been in the fight so much ...he just wanted to punch hard because he's trying to survive.

Its just trying to shoot an arrow at an online target.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 11:05pm

Absoluvely wrote: »

Another TCD student society, 'The Phil', invited him and had him speak there in 2013, as their flagship event of the year. Times have changed.

Its not just times that changed. Its also Dawkins himself who changed. Or let himself be changed by the opposition.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 11:06pm

nthclare wrote: »

I'll wear it with pride without the prejudice

BLOOMERS!

IAMAMORON · 28-09-2020 11:08pm

I think by disinviting an intellectual over their notions or ideals, is betraying students the opportunity to make their own minds up about something.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 11:10pm

I just thought of something.

If Trinity had any issue over a lawsuit to do with sexual misconduct on campus etc. Or harassment. Either faculty or students.

Having a slew of speakers who said stuff like he has said would not look good.

Although i realize it was a society decision and not a faculty one.

igCorcaigh · 28-09-2020 11:13pm

The_Brood wrote: »

As someone who is not an atheist I disagree with Dawkins on many important matters, but the far-left that dominates academia, pop culture, and much of politics seeks to actively censor and cancel everything and anything remotely connected to science, history, and reason.

Eh, that's not the far left, that is social liberalism.

bobbyy gee · 28-09-2020 11:14pm

to be or not to be that is the question

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2013/09/richard-dawkins-criticizes-shakespeare-lacking-elite-education/311151/

Kraftwerk · 28-09-2020 11:18pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

to be or not to be that is the question

That's quite possibly the dumbest article I've ever read.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 11:23pm

Kraftwerk wrote: »

That's quite possibly the dumbest article I've ever read.

He did really say some odd things about pedophilia.

Dawkins has slowly become what he hates. Irrational.

kowloon · 28-09-2020 11:35pm

Secular liberal =/= Religious authoritarian. Do we just call ourselves whatever we want now with no regard to the meaning of words?

ILoveYourVibes · 28-09-2020 11:40pm

kowloon wrote: »

Secular liberal =/= Religious authoritarian. Do we just call ourselves whatever we want now with no regard to the meaning of words?

dawkins is not liberal. And some of his comments can seem like while he is atheist he is not secular.

Mules · 28-09-2020 11:42pm

Treppen wrote: »

Have you got an example of that?

The Frankfurt school/ critical theory, (sometimes known as cultural marxism) originated with German jews (in Frankfurt, unsuprisingly) They moved on to America during the rise of fascism. Very influential thinkers.

o1s1n · 28-09-2020 11:51pm

Richard Dawkins has written some great books but is without a doubt, one of the worst representations of atheism to ever grace the public sphere. I absolutely cringe whenever I see him appear on anything, as much as I enjoy hearing his viewpoint.

It's like trying to listen out for notes of beautiful music in nails screeching down a blackboard.

igCorcaigh · 29-09-2020 12:04am

o1s1n wrote: »

Richard Dawkins has written some great books but is without a doubt, one of the worst representations of atheism to ever grace the public sphere. I absolutely cringe whenever I see him appear on anything, as much as I enjoy hearing his viewpoint.

It's like trying to listen out for notes of beautiful music in nails screeching down a blackboard.

He needs a shaking up in his thinking alright. (and I'm an atheist).

I would prescribe Richard one gram of dried liberty cap in a comfortable setting.

kowloon · 29-09-2020 12:04am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

dawkins is not liberal. And some of his comments can seem like while he is atheist he is not secular.

I was thinking more of the people cancelling the visit. I'll bet they consider themselves open-minded liberals when they're anything but.

igCorcaigh · 29-09-2020 12:05am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

dawkins is not liberal. And some of his comments can seem like while he is atheist he is not secular.

Not secular?

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2020 12:05am

kowloon wrote: »

I was thinking more of the people cancelling the visit. I'll bet they consider themselves open-minded liberals when they're anything but.

ah i see

igCorcaigh · 29-09-2020 12:07am

kowloon wrote: »

I was thinking more of the people cancelling the visit. I'll bet they consider themselves open-minded liberals when they're anything but.

The utter paradox of it all.

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2020 12:11am

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Not secular?

Yes. The combining of religious ritual or symbols with nationality as he did with the cathedral bells.

By the way ..he calls himself a christian.

Richard Dawkins: 'I am a secular Christian

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/10853648/Richard-Dawkins-I-am-a-secular-Christian.html

He also said he preached the teaching of christ. And called him christ rather than jesus of nazareth.

He has swerved very close in some comments to saying he has faith.

He has said things like ..a world without god would lead to moral decline.

He has said ending religion would be a bad idea.
Presumably only his religion.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ending-religion-is-a-bad-idea-says-richard-dawkins-sqqdbmcpq

da_miser · 29-09-2020 2:49am

Lovely to see, the left turning on itself, guess he was not woke enough, suppose it happens eventually to everyone, there will always be someone pushing further to the left and canceling those who do not agree, meanwhile the rest of us sit back and laugh.

Kaybaykwah · 29-09-2020 3:32am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Students being a shower of self-important dickheads. Some things never change.

Circumsised or no?

That is the question.

fash · 29-09-2020 4:15am

buried wrote: »

I don't agree with Dawkins viewpoints, and I wouldn't be a fan of organised religion, I just don't dig his refusal to accept the possibility of a reality beyond what is perceptible to human senses in our evolving minds.

I'm pretty certain he has never "refused" to accept the possibility of a reality beyond that perceptible to human senses - rather his position is "if you want to make an assertion, prove it". He does not have a "religious" belief (i.e. an unwarranted and absolute certainty) that such things do not exist - rather he simply acknowledges that such things are highly, highly unlikely but cannot be categorically ruled out.

29-09-2020 4:18am

Dawkins has said for years that on a scale of 1-7 (one being a religious fundamentalist and seven being atheist) he'd consider himself a 6.

So his mind is open enough that if evidence of a God ever surfaces, he will accept that evidence.

Quantum Erasure · 29-09-2020 4:31am

He only says that because he doesn't have the balls to say he knows there will never be any evidence

Brian? · 29-09-2020 5:01am

da_miser wrote: »

Lovely to see, the left turning on itself, guess he was not woke enough, suppose it happens eventually to everyone, there will always be someone pushing further to the left and canceling those who do not agree, meanwhile the rest of us sit back and laugh.

Is Dawkins politically left? Was he cancelled by someone on the left?

Quantum Erasure · 29-09-2020 5:49am

Brian? wrote: »

Is Dawkins politically left?

Dawkins himself has stated that his political views are left-leaning.[1] However, many of Dawkins's political statements have created controversy among left-wing and atheist communities

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Richard_Dawkins

Was he cancelled by someone on the left?

As a Management Science and Information Systems Studies student at Trinity College Dublin, I am fascinated by how technology can change the world of business and our society. In particular, I am also interested in how, through legal and economic policies, we should regulate the tech industry to ensure we are creating a fair society.

bridodonnell.com

Brian? · 29-09-2020 6:49am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Dawkins himself has stated that his political views are left-leaning.[1] However, many of Dawkins's political statements have created controversy among left-wing and atheist communities

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Richard_Dawkins

bridodonnell.com

He recently spoke at the Lib Dems conference in the UK. The Lib Dems are not left wing.

biko · 29-09-2020 7:07am

The historical society strikes me as cowards.
Debates aren't about comfort, they are about moving society forward.
Too bad Hist have been hijacked by snowflakes.

"I'm sorry, but we'll only do debates with people that think exactly like us" /posh accent

Wanderer78 · 29-09-2020 7:09am

biko wrote:

The historical society strikes me as cowards. Debates aren't about comfort, they are about moving society forward. Too bad Hist have been hijacked by snowflakes.

Why would they be cowards, what's a snowflake?

Danzy · 29-09-2020 7:09am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they feel hurt. I feel hurt.

If you feel hurt. I feel hurt.

It's all comes back to you.

TCD Cancel Richard Dawkins.

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