Awww .... my heart bleeds for them.

eviltwin · 19-02-2019 10:54am

Time for the church to downsize. There are still going to be those who attend mass and give financial support but with faith in decline and a lack of priests maybe it's time to sell church land and consolidate. Do we really need a church in every village?

Cuddlesworth · 19-02-2019 11:00am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Amazing how all the collections add up to even numbers

I'd assume they have money sorting machines and submit coins in logical amounts to the bank.

topper75 · 19-02-2019 11:09am

The high horse brigade wrote: »

One thing I discovered long ago. The lord loves the old cash

"Consider the lilies of the field, they neither reap nor sow, but damn folks I need the readies"

begbysback · 19-02-2019 11:26am

syboit wrote: »

Interesting that Mitchelstown parish gave Cobh 4k for organ repairs. Didnt think they would support other parishes like that.

Wasn’t all cash though, if you dig deeper you will see 1200 of that was in sausages

klaaaz · 19-02-2019 11:38am

Karson Broad Bedtime wrote: »

This. But fixed your post a little.

Why "An optional church tax" , it should be compulsory for all their followers. If you follow that religion, you pay your religious tax to help support your religion. Just like in Germany and other countries and then priests wouldn't have to beg for money.

LithiumKid1976 · 19-02-2019 11:44am

our local priest, in the job about 3 years, has managed to alienate a lot of folks, in what was already a small parish. in the last few weeks, he has managed to bring down 2 parish councils (our parish and the next one over) with his sheer pigheadedness. the bishop has backed him, (probably as its so hard to get a parish priest) but you can be sure that what ever donation they were getting before, will be way down in the future.

also, if they are stuck for money, they can sell a few of the priest houses, as there aint nobody living in them anyway...

orourkeda1977 · 19-02-2019 11:48am

NIMAN wrote: »

So there isn't money to pay the priests

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/diocese-had-no-money-at-christmas-to-pay-priests-wages-after-decline-in-donations-from-parishioners-37826752.html

What a shame.

That's what happens when you commit terrible crimes, cover them up, and expect the sheep to let you away with it.

Thankfully, Ireland is finally waking up to the Catholic Church.

Imagine if we started treating every high level criminal this way. The world would be so much better

Mrs OBumble · 19-02-2019 12:22pm

cgcsb wrote: »

They should go on strike, no confession for a week. That'd show em

Let us know how you feel when your granny's funeral is delayed by a fortnight 'cos no priest is available until then.

TheBlock · 19-02-2019 12:31pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Let us know how you feel when your granny's funeral is delayed by a fortnight 'cos no priest is available until then.

I hope My Granny's Funeral is delayed a lot longer...... shes not dead yet.

123balltv · 19-02-2019 12:38pm

Humanist funerals becoming popular no need for the church

SoundsRight · 19-02-2019 1:04pm

Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 19-02-2019 1:20pm

Optional for anyone, you can pay the tax if you want. You don't have to be a follower to pay it of course.

For example, I have no interest in the church (or any religion/faith). However my kids are involved in certain non-religious activities in the community centre attached to the local church. The centre provides a superb venue for various activities and in particular youth groups, so I would be supportive of it in that respect. However you cannot donate directly to the centre, any donation must be made to the church.
Some people may be ok to donate to the church solely for the upkeep of the centre. But they have no say where their funds are used. We've decided not donate but to get involved and help out in some of the groups who use the venue. Others may not have the time or interest in doing that, so a simple monthly donation may be ideal for those people.

klaaaz wrote: »

Why "An optional church tax" , it should be compulsory for all their followers. If you follow that religion, you pay your religious tax to help support your religion. Just like in Germany and other countries and then priests wouldn't have to beg for money.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 19-02-2019 1:24pm

Ok? So lets just forget about all the unforgivable acts from the Catholic Church shall we? Because you know, it's part of our culture. :rolleyes:

Genocide,
Crusades,
Spanish Inquisition,
The subjugation of women,
Institutionalized homophobia,
The raping of children entrusted to their care,
The covering up of the offenders,
Magdalene laundries,
etc. etc.

The day the catholic church (and religion in general) is eradicated from this earth, it will be one of the greatest days in the history of humankind.

SoundsRight wrote: »

Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

Cryptopagan · 19-02-2019 1:35pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Few people carry change or cash anymore. Time for the church to leave a contactless terminal in churches where people can tap and go.

The days of fumbling for change at the bottom of your wallet are long gone.

They are reportedly trialing a contactless system for donations in some Dublin parishes at the moment. Though given the age profile of attendees would skew older, a lot of them would still deal mostly in cash I'd guess.

whisky_galore · 19-02-2019 1:36pm

Karson Broad Bedtime wrote: »

Ok? So lets just forget about all the unforgivable acts from the Catholic Church shall we? Because you know, it's part of our culture. :rolleyes:

Genocide,
Crusades,
Spanish Inquisition,
The subjugation of women,
Institutionalized homophobia,
The raping of children entrusted to their care,
The covering up of the offenders,
Magdalene laundries,
etc. etc.

The day the catholic church (and religion in general) is eradicated from this earth, it will be one of the greatest days in the history of humankind.

Actually the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition are largely myth. Protestant propaganda of the time. The rest of your list, fair enough.

SoundsRight · 19-02-2019 1:39pm

Karson Broad Bedtime wrote: »

Ok? So lets just forget about all the unforgivable acts from the Catholic Church shall we? Because you know, it's part of our culture. :rolleyes:

Genocide,
Crusades,
Spanish Inquisition,
The subjugation of women,
Institutionalized homophobia,
The raping of children entrusted to their care,
The covering up of the offenders,
Magdalene laundries,
etc. etc.

The day the catholic church (and religion in general) is eradicated from this earth, it will be one of the greatest days in the history of humankind.

These are human behaviours which would have happened in this country with or without the Church. Overall it has and continues to have a positive influence in Ireland.

The Satanist · 19-02-2019 1:44pm

Burn every church.

pickarooney · 19-02-2019 1:46pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

These are the accounts for my local church! If anybody is interested.

It costs them money to collect money at the cemetery?

Wildly Boaring · 19-02-2019 1:54pm

pickarooney wrote: »

It costs them money to collect money at the cemetery?

Few funny ones there (I'm no accountant maybe makes sense )

Insurance claim in and out??
18k to upkeep the parochial house?
4k for organ in Cobh?
18900 going in and out?

Grayson · 19-02-2019 2:07pm

endacl wrote: »

PrayPal

I've just stolen that.

eviltwin · 19-02-2019 2:10pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

It's in decline because people don't see it as relevant to their lives anymore. I don't know how it gets past that when some of its views on social issues are so at odds with modern life

Church on Tuesday · 19-02-2019 2:14pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry, don't agree with this.

I have no sympathy for anything church related. They have sinned too much to get any sympathy any more.

As for the above statement, I feel sorry for 'good' priests, but only because they continue to believe in an imaginary man who is watching over them and to whom they must dedicate their entire life. Such a waste.

I could never understand this attitude.

Notwithstanding the obvious crimes against humanity the Catholic Church as an institution has foisted upon humanity for decades and the many evil priests who thrived in the past and had about as much interest in religion as I have, there are many priests that do genuinely good work for people less fortunate - Fr. Peter McVerry is one and there are countless more the world over.

It's like saying that one bad guard (of which there are a few in this country) means all guards are corrupt.

I think it's incredibly simplistic to tar every single priest as the same, which really this is all about.

What about the other world religions? they are as fanciable as Catholicism; are Tibetan monks to be pitied for their, on paper, frankly ludicrous beliefs pertaining to Budda?

I'm no fan of the Catholic Church by any means; I find that institution and pretty much every lay follower to be a hypocrite of the highest order (personal experience and I'm from a Catholic background) but I think it's too teenage edge-lord like to declare all priests as total write off scum.

denismc · 19-02-2019 2:15pm

syboit wrote: »

Interesting that Mitchelstown parish gave Cobh 4k for organ repairs. Didnt think they would support other parishes like that.

Maybe they had an organ donor card!

sbsquarepants · 19-02-2019 2:18pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

These are the accounts for my local church! If anybody is interested.

vicwatson wrote: »

“Peters pence” €1600.00:D

I wondered about that one myself!:D:D

It's a very suspicious set of accounts - an awful lot of expenditure exactly matching income. What the hell are Holy Places for example and how do they conveniently cost exactly as much as they bring in?

Who get's the 64k wages, and seeing as the parochial house upkeep is covered for 18k what the hell do they spend it on?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 19-02-2019 2:19pm

The list would be endless, I gave a handful of examples.

whisky_galore wrote: »

Actually the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition are largely myth. Protestant propaganda of the time. The rest of your list, fair enough.

What total and utter rubbish IMHO but I guess it is subjective. I think you'll find that most people would disagree with you on the church being a 'positive influence' in Ireland.

SoundsRight wrote: »

These are human behaviours which would have happened in this country with or without the Church. Overall it has and continues to have a positive influence in Ireland.

nozzferrahhtoo · 19-02-2019 2:20pm

NIMAN wrote: »

That's what happens when you commit terrible crimes, cover them up, and expect the sheep to let you away with it.

That cant have helped but I doubt that is the whole picture. Even without that awful stuff, I think the general business model of selling lies to children, and creating cures for diseases you have also created that do not actually exist.... could not really go on forever.

Not that that business model is entirely dead, it has tangented off into the areas of self help, alternative medicine, and pick up artist woo. But the business model of out and out fantasy and lies just does not seem to hold up so well for them any more.

You link is rather recent but there were articles I read a few years ago from about 2000 onwards on the same lines...... where Priests were taking second jobs stacking shelves in supermarkets to make ends meet.

klaaaz wrote: »

Just like in Germany and other countries and then priests wouldn't have to beg for money.

Hehehe, here in the town I live in Germany they amalgamated the parish with two others because there was no money. Then they tried to get a priest for this new amalgamation and the only priest they could find AND afford was an imported African one who does not yet speak any German.

So not only do all the little old country folk now have to travel to a church miles away from their old one for mass, it is also in English which many of them do not even speak.

Something tells me they do not feel they are getting the value for the Church Tax money they paid all their lives.

SoundsRight wrote: »

Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

The second sentence there appears to be a complete non-sequitur to the first however. Even if we were to grant the latter sentence as true.... which I do not..... that does not at all support the first sentence automatically.

Appeals to culture and heritage of our past tell us nothing about what we benefit from having here today. Starvation and famine are part of what makes up our culture and heritage too. Yet I am pretty much happy that's way in the past (touch wood and all that).

Is there any actual reason it would be a shame other than appeal to historicity? I can think of none. It is certainly no part of the culture and heritage I identify with today, or anyone I know identifies with. Among my peers and circles the church is something people seem somewhat embarrassed and apologetic about when they meet anyone non-Irish.

The Satanist wrote: »

Burn every church.

No way, they make great music venues when they are converted. One of the best gigs I was ever at was Damien rice in Union Chapel London. Another was glen Hansard in that little chapel in Dingle. There was an amazing David Gray gig at some converted church I can not think of the name of in Dublin up towards vicar street direction.

Great buildings being wasted on woo and lies. Use them for something useful!

punisher5112 · 19-02-2019 2:24pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I wondered about that one myself!:D:D

It's a very suspicious set of accounts - an awful lot of expenditure exactly matching income. What the hell are Holy Places for example and how do they conveniently cost exactly as much as they bring in?

Who get's the 64k wages, and seeing as the parochial house upkeep is covered for 18k what the hell do they spend it on?

Wine and bread.

_Kaiser_ · 19-02-2019 2:24pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It's in decline because people don't see it as relevant to their lives anymore. I don't know how it gets past that when some of its views on social issues are so at odds with modern life

And yet the same logic doesn't apply to another well-known religion and it's relevance to Western societies.

It's open season on the RCC for years now (and justifiably so), but not an ill word can be said about a far more socially destructive religion or all the - ist and - ism's come out.

I'm not being smart.. I just find it genuinely interesting why we can attack and dismiss one, but not the other. Funny how the "modern" world works.

Personally I've no time for religion of any kind but respect people's right to believe in whatever they wish SO LONG AS those beliefs don't negatively affect others or contravene the laws of the State.

Grayson · 19-02-2019 2:24pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Let us know how you feel when your granny's funeral is delayed by a fortnight 'cos no priest is available until then.

You don't need a priest for a funeral. Anyone can do that.

I realise that the funeral bit generally takes place after a mass and a priest is needed for the mass, but they aren't needed for the actual funeral bit. Same goes for the rites of committal i.e. the burial.

And you can schedule the mass for sometime in the future if you want it.

wakka12 · 19-02-2019 2:26pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry, don't agree with this.

I have no sympathy for anything church related. They have sinned too much to get any sympathy any more.

As for the above statement, I feel sorry for 'good' priests, but only because they continue to believe in an imaginary man who is watching over them and to whom they must dedicate their entire life. Such a waste.

Thats quite disrespectful. A life is only wasted if the person themselves thinks that they are wasting their life. If they take great pride and joy from spending their life thinking about god, then its the opposite of a wasted life, its a life well lived, just maybe not by the standards of you or I, or many others in this instance

eviltwin · 19-02-2019 2:26pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet the same logic doesn't apply to another well-known religion and it's relevance to Western societies.

It's open season on the RCC for years now (and justifiably so), but not an ill word can be said about a far more socially destructive religion or all the - ist and - ism's come out.

I'm not being smart.. I just find it genuinely interesting why we can attack and dismiss one, but not the other. Funny how the "modern" world works.

Personally I've no time for religion of any kind but respect people's right to believe in whatever they wish SO LONG AS those beliefs don't negatively affect others or contravene the laws of the State.

I hate all religions so I will be as critical of Islam as Catholicism but seeing as this thread isn't about Islam ....

Berserker · 19-02-2019 2:28pm

Ninthlife wrote: »

I always thought priests took a vow of poverty....

Not all of them.

Your Face wrote: »

Hopefully this and other religions will decline in this country.

What would that achieve?

51942473_2314308371935710_951835482315030528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=e5e380fb23fa3d8bcd1410ce5dab783a&oe=5CDB09EA

51942473_2314308371935710_951835482315030528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub1-2.fna&oh=e5e380fb23fa3d8bcd1410ce5dab783a&oe=5CDB09EA

What are 'holy places'? That's one hell of a tax refund. If someone leaves them a gift; house for example, do they include that in their accounts?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 19-02-2019 2:33pm

Ninthlife wrote: »

I always thought priests took a vow of poverty....

This is one of the great misconceptions. All priests and religious do not take a bow of poverty. Only members of certain religious institutes are required to take that particular vow.

beertons · 19-02-2019 2:33pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Wine and bread.

I'd say there's cheese as well, but they didn't note that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 19-02-2019 2:39pm

Berserker wrote: »

Not all of them.

What would that achieve?

What are 'holy places'? That's one hell of a tax refund. If someone leaves them a gift; house for example, do they include that in their accounts?

Holy Places refers to a collection, usually on Good Friday, towards funding parishes in, and their involvement in maintaining sites, in the Holy Land.

The tax refund is the usual tax rebate available to charities on annual contributions over a certain value, for which the contributor has given permission for it to be redeemed from Revenue.

Income and expenditure from special collections will always match, as the proceeds are passed on to the cause involved.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 19-02-2019 2:39pm

Never thought I'd see a thread taking pleasure in people not getting paid for doing their jobs ... but there you have it.

topmanamillion · 19-02-2019 2:40pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

Would be a shame to see the Church decline any further. Like it or not, it's part of our culture and heritage.

It represents too much of what was wrong with historic Ireland to be any sort of a loss.
I'd have no issue with a couple of cathedrals and churches around the country being used as museums to house art and religious artifacts. I think that would tick the box of acknowledging it as a part of our history.

The churches stance, and subsequent overwhelming defeat, in both the marriage equality and abortion referenda show it and its views are completely irrelevant to the majority of Irish people.

redbedhead · 19-02-2019 2:45pm

VeryTerry wrote: »

Far better organisations than these have lost out to progress, like Xtravision.

Maybe the RCC can set up little kiosks in Supervalu?

Bobeagleburger · 19-02-2019 2:47pm

Skyla Attractive Boar wrote: »

Never thought I'd see a thread taking pleasure in people not getting paid for doing their jobs ... but there you have it.

They are one of the richest organisations in the world. Let headquarters pay their staff.

Can't believe people give them money tbh.

Berserker · 19-02-2019 2:48pm

redbedhead wrote: »

Maybe the RCC can set up little kiosks in Supervalu?

They beat you to it. Heard about this on the news a while back.

Confession Kiosk

looksee · 19-02-2019 2:55pm

Transfer from deposit account - €45,000

So there's a deposit account?

Grayson · 19-02-2019 3:04pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet the same logic doesn't apply to another well-known religion and it's relevance to Western societies.

It's open season on the RCC for years now (and justifiably so), but not an ill word can be said about a far more socially destructive religion or all the - ist and - ism's come out.

I'm not being smart.. I just find it genuinely interesting why we can attack and dismiss one, but not the other. Funny how the "modern" world works.

Personally I've no time for religion of any kind but respect people's right to believe in whatever they wish SO LONG AS those beliefs don't negatively affect others or contravene the laws of the State.

To be fair it's not catholicism or christianity in general that's under attack. It's the fringe groups in christianity and the RCC itself. And for different reasons.

The RCC as an organisation didn't just cover up abuse, it all but facilitated it. I know not every priest or bishop is to blame. But there was enough to bring the organisation into disrepute. And some of its teachings regarding divorce, contraception, homosexuality etc are very outdated.

But the thing is that most of the flak it takes is as an organisation. Regular catholics don't take the same flak. And no-one thinks all catholics are like that.

Even when it comes to christianity in general we can separate the everyday christian from fringe groups.

The problem is that when we talk about other religions we all to often conflate the worst members of that religion with the religion as a whole.

freshpopcorn · 19-02-2019 3:09pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Few funny ones there (I'm no accountant maybe makes sense )

Insurance claim in and out??
18k to upkeep the parochial house?
4k for organ in Cobh?
18900 going in and out?

The insurance claim was due to a hig oil leak outside. They had to do a good of repairing.
Technically isn't insurance meant put you back where you originally started. No better to worse off.(I might be off about that).
They have 4 houses in the town and they did up another for the nuns to live in during the years.
I don't know about the organ.

Cryptopagan · 19-02-2019 3:11pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

They have 4 houses in the town and they did up another toilet buns live in during the years.

Mmmm, toilet buns.

Snake Plisken · 19-02-2019 3:12pm

NIMAN wrote: »

So there isn't money to pay the priests

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/diocese-had-no-money-at-christmas-to-pay-priests-wages-after-decline-in-donations-from-parishioners-37826752.html

What a shame.

That's what happens when you commit terrible crimes, cover them up, and expect the sheep to let you away with it.

Thankfully, Ireland is finally waking up to the Catholic Church.

Is there a word like Islamaphobia for a hatred of Catholics and our religion that would best describe this lad?

freshpopcorn · 19-02-2019 3:27pm

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Mmmm, toilet buns.

I meant nuns.

Bobeagleburger · 19-02-2019 3:34pm

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Is there a word like Islamaphobia for a hatred of Catholics and our religion that would best describe this lad?

He never said anything about hating Catholics.

He's spot on tbh.

TeaBagMania · 19-02-2019 4:06pm

Larry Squeaking Whey wrote: »

The tax refund is the usual tax rebate available to charities on annual contributions over a certain value, for which the contributor has given permission for it to be redeemed from Revenue.

nice to know the tax paying public who choose not to attend are getting it the back door to the tune of 27K

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 19-02-2019 4:40pm

TeaBagMania wrote: »

nice to know the tax paying public who choose not to attend are getting it the back door to the tune of 27K

Every charity in the country, whether you support or agree with them, gets tax refunds if the contributors are paying tax and agree to the rebate.

Edgware · 19-02-2019 5:04pm

RoboKlopp wrote: »

They are one of the richest organisations in the world. Let headquarters pay their staff.

Can't believe people give them money tbh.

Youd be the first in the queue booking some traditional old church for your wedding

Awww .... my heart bleeds for them.

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