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If there was no IRA....

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12357…10

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    #122
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    The question is far too broad,

    You had the original IRA which was to fight and win freedom from UK

    Then you had the PIRA which fought for the freedom of Northern Ireland

    Then you have the current version which I have no idea what they call themselves who are just a group of scumbags running a criminal organization no better than the Kinahans and all those scumbags

    The problem with Sinn Fein is they should have cut ties with the new version of Sinn Fein straight after the Good Friday agreement was put in place but they haven't.


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    #123
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Bowie wrote: »
    So you say we weren't, we were.

    I already cleared this up in another post, in terms of what I meant when I used that term. I mean it in regards the revisionism that we would still be occupied if it were not for the IRA.
    You ignored that post and referred to an older one. I am not sure what the point of that was but I will not be clearing it up... again for you.

    You seem to miss the Empire days and have a dislike of those fought for our independence.

    More ad-hominem.

    I dislike those who glorify murder when there are alternative avenues.


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    #124
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    ....
    You'd have 2 states in the Miiidle East side by side called Q and N. Which would be weird. Especially if there was an intermediate territory called URA...


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    #125
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Indeed, it was only on that Michael Portillo documentary last week that initially they had only intended 4 counties for Northern Ireland but at the last minute added on Fermangh and Tyrone because they felt a 4 county statelet would not be viable.


    To be honest I would say we where glad to get rid of both, not much good coming out of those two counties


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    #126
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    And we didnt have divorce, abortion or contraception because Fine Gael and Fianna Fail handed over the keys of the country to the Catholic Church. Thats on Fine Gael and Fianna Fail, not the IRA or the British.

    What about people like Dev, who was the founder of FF and a IRA member?


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    #127
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »
    ...................................
    More ad-hominem.

    I dislike those who glorify murder when there are alternative avenues.




    The "alternative avenues" where they were batoned off the streets by the forces of "law and order"?


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    #128
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The question is far too broad,

    You had the original IRA which was to fight and win freedom from UK

    Then you had the PIRA which fought for the freedom of Northern Ireland

    Then you have the current version which I have no idea what they call themselves who are just a group of scumbags running a criminal organization no better than the Kinahans and all those scumbags

    The problem with Sinn Fein is they should have cut ties with the new version of Sinn Fein straight after the Good Friday agreement was put in place but they haven't.

    Spoken like a true FFGer. You’re wrong btw in your last clumsy paragraph


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    #129
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    To be honest I would say we where glad to get rid of both, not much good coming out of those two counties

    Amazing the tripe that gets lazily thrown around here


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    #130
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    Spoken like a true FFGer. You’re wrong btw in your last clumsy paragraph


    What was incorrect?


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    #131
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    markodaly wrote: »
    What about people like Dev, who was the founder of FF and a IRA member?

    Its always straight to the whataboutery with you isnt it. The OP is about the IRA of the 60/70s but of course you knew that already.

    Your post is saying that had the British been in charge here we would have had abortion, condoms and divorce long before we actually did. Thats besides the point because we could have had it anyway except your party Fine Gael and Fianna Fail gave the keys to the country over the the Catholic Church.

    It was FFG who ultimately prevented those liberal goals, it was nobody else except them sniffling up and kissing the Popes ring. For that they have to take responsibility as well as allowing the Church to rape and fiddle with generations of Irish children.


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    #132
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    The "alternative avenues" where they were batoned off the streets by the forces of "law and order"?

    That alternative does not automatically mean killing toddlers in Warrington or women in Omagh or working-class men at Kingsmill.

    John Hume was one of those batoned off the streets, yet still worked tirelessly using peaceful means.


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    #133
    rdwight
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Its always straight to the whataboutery with you isnt it. The OP is about the IRA of the 60/70s but of course you knew that already.

    Why are you assuming OP was referring to the IRA of the 60/70's. I assumed she was referring to its 100 year history but she later clarfied it:
    gossipgirl123 wrote: »
    I'm more interested in the IRA of the 90s


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    #134
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »
    That alternative does not automatically mean killing toddlers in Warrington or women in Omagh or working-class men at Kingsmill.

    John Hume was one of those batoned off the streets, yet still worked tirelessly using peaceful means.


    ...and yet it was the physical force lads who got the agreement to most of their demands. Funny that.


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    #135
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Its always straight to the whataboutery with you isnt it. The OP is about the IRA of the 60/70s but of course you knew that already.



    The OP is actually very very vague and doesn't mention which time period they refer to.

    Your post is saying that had the British been in charge here we would have had abortion, condoms and divorce long before we actually did. Thats besides the point because we could have had it anyway except your party Fine Gael and Fianna Fail gave the keys to the country over the the Catholic Church.

    You are proving my point for me. FF and FG grew out of the roots of the Civil war, which was sown in violence and bitterness. Dare I say it, if we had a non-violent start to this nation, and the Irish Parliamentary Party still had a say, then they could have formed one side of the divide, with Labour, the oldest political party in Ireland could bring up the left, thus the social and liberal reforms we talk about could have come about a lot earlier.
    It was FFG who ultimately prevented those liberal goals, it was nobody else except them sniffling up and kissing the Popes ring. For that they have to take responsibility as well as allowing the Church to rape and fiddle with generations of Irish children.

    It was ultimately the Irish people who did, because they voted for FF and FG. We get the politics we deserve.


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    #136
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...and yet it was the physical force lads who got the agreement to most of their demands. Funny that.

    Ah, Sunningdale for slow learners? About 25 years too late if you ask me, but that is the lie Republicans tell themselves


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    #137
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    AMKC wrote: »
    I have disagree here. I still think we would have got our independence it just would have taken longer. Maybe it would have happened after WW2 instead of before it. I think if we had of been part of thf British Empire when WW2 happened we would have been bombed by the Germans and we would have got to build our cities the way we want but with underground railway too. I think after it Britain would have pulled out like they did in India and in other Country's they occupied because they could not afford it anymore. The troubles in the North would have been different maybe more like the race wars in America in the 60s or not happen at all unless another group were to fight for freedom like the IRA maybe in a less violent way. Maybe less lifes would have been lost or more lifes would be lost.


    AHhahahahahaha....


    That assumes The Empire would have bothered to rebuild Dublin and it wouldn't look like a depressing s-ithole like Coventry today after getting flattened in the blitz. (And doesn't have an underground either).


    The British Empire exerted it's control the same way everywhere it went.
    Divide and conquer. How else did a small island manage to control continents?
    It would have all ended in a bloody civil war between the divided here as it did everwhere else and left a balkanized disaster in it's wake. Northern Ireland writ large across the whole island.


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    #138
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ah, Sunningdale for slow learners? About 25 years too late if you ask me, but that is the lie Republicans tell themselves

    It was the Loyalists that took down Sunningdale but we already know you’re not good on history


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    #139
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,986 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    TheCitizen wrote: »
    It was the Loyalists that took down Sunningdale but we already know you’re not good on history

    I do know that, but the IRA and SF were dead set against it as well.

    Two sides of the same sectarian coin.


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    #140
    nigeldaniel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Without the IRA/SF, the country would be a mile better in every way.

    Dan.



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    #141
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    markodaly wrote: »
    I do know that, but the IRA and SF were dead set against it as well. Two sides of the same sectarian coin.

    The IRA/SF were politically irrelevant. Sunningdale might have taken the wind out of their sales.

    Are you aware of the Ulster Workers' strike that was enforced by the UVF?


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    #142
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    markodaly wrote: »
    I already cleared this up in another post, in terms of what I meant when I used that term. I mean it in regards the revisionism that we would still be occupied if it were not for the IRA.
    You ignored that post and referred to an older one. I am not sure what the point of that was but I will not be clearing it up... again for you.


    More ad-hominem.

    I dislike those who glorify murder when there are alternative avenues.

    I didn't ignore anything. Don't infer your brand of misrepresentation on me thank you.

    So do I. I guess Remembrance day can be seen as glorifying murder by honouring those who fought and died. Like all things, depends on your politics. I am sickened to see WW2 bombers that would have carpet bombed entire cities viewed almost as religious relics.

    We don't know where we'd be without people willing to kill or be killed on our behalf. I would suggest that the occupied portion of Ulster might be more akin to Israel and the Nationalists Palestinians, if not for the IRA, Sinn Fein and many others.


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    #143
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    To be honest I would say we where glad to get rid of both, not much good coming out of those two counties

    In what sense no good? :D


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    #144
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Kylo Ren wrote: »
    We'd all be supporting supporting British sports teams and watching British TV channels and shows and drinking tea while complaining about the weather all day.
    and queuing as a favourite hobby


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    #145
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭corks finest


    flazio wrote: »
    Depends which version of the IRA you refer to.

    No difference, between my grandfather's time up to present, whether you like, acknowledge or disagree


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    #146
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭corks finest


    flazio wrote: »
    Depends which version of the IRA you refer to.

    No difference, between my grandfather's time up to present, whether you like, acknowledge or disagree


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    #147
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    When people in the south of Ireland had no freedom, murder and atrocities took place in the name of that freedom. In the north as they remained oppressed, the same took place and in the south they scream terrorists. Don't think you are placed to judge what you never experienced OP.

    Thread obsolete gossipgirl


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    #148
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ah, Sunningdale for slow learners?

    And who brought down Sunningdale?
    The majority of Irish Nationalists, though not the Provos, were ready to accept something like the Good Friday Agreement in 1973, or even earlier.
    The same certainly cannot be said for the Loyalists who brought it down.
    Or the British Establishment that refused to grasp the nettle of angering the Unionists by treating both communities equally.


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    #149
    gossipgirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭gossipgirl123


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    When people in the south of Ireland had no freedom, murder and atrocities took place in the name of that freedom. In the north as they remained oppressed, the same took place and in the south they scream terrorists. Don't think you are placed to judge what you never experienced OP.

    Thread obsolete gossipgirl

    You are right I never experienced any of the atrocities thank God. I have only recently started to think about the North on the back of the media hype of Bobby Storeys funeral.

    I dont like what I read about the man, I found nothing positive about him I dont know why he was so liked and why Sinn Fein didnt distance themselves from him. My reason for not liking Sinn Fein was not based on IRA activity I simply dont agree with their policies or attitudes.


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    #150
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    gossipgirl123 wrote: »
    You are right I never experienced any of the atrocities thank God. I have only recently started to think about the North on the back of the media hype of Bobby Storeys funeral.

    I dont like what I read about the man, I found nothing positive about him I dont know why he was so liked and why Sinn Fein didnt distance themselves from him. My reason for not liking Sinn Fein was not based on IRA activity I simply dont agree with their policies or attitudes.

    They probably liked him because he did what needed to be done, when it was needed.


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    #151
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    When people in the south of Ireland had no freedom, murder and atrocities took place in the name of that freedom. In the north as they remained oppressed, the same took place and in the south they scream terrorists. Don't think you are placed to judge what you never experienced OP.

    Thread obsolete gossipgirl

    So what was the murder in 2007 of Paul Quinn about?

    What about the murder of people in South of Ireland? Was that for freedom? What exactly was the killing of Martin Cahill?
    How many people along the border got killed for no reason, catholic and other religions?

    The raping of women? The abuse of children and then protector those abusers?

    Was that all required to get the freedom of the North?

    Stick your head in the sand all you want, don’t expect everyone else to as well


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