If there was no IRA....

gossipgirl123

I have personally started to enjoy Irish politics, I honestly can't abide Sinn Fein I disagree with the policies and I don't think the sums add up. That aside I have been thinking what would life be like if the IRA never existed would we have peace today.

Zebra3

Likely we'd still be under British occupation.

weldoninhio

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

I have personally started to enjoy Irish politics, I honestly can't abide Sinn Fein I disagree with the policies and I don't think the sums add up. That aside I have been thinking what would life be like if the IRA never existed would we have peace today.

No IRA there'd possibly still be civil rights marches happening in NI today, possibly mirroring BLM. Catholics being treated as second class citizens, overlooked for jobs, attacked and assaulted. FF/FG/Labour completely ignoring what was going on up the road. British collusion still happening with loyalist gangs. Possibly more bombs like Dublin/Monaghan.

flazio

Depends which version of the IRA you refer to.

rdwight

If there had been no IRA we would probably be 5-10 years away from a United Ireland as dictated by demographics.

Kylo Ren

We'd all be supporting supporting British sports teams and watching British TV channels and shows and drinking tea while complaining about the weather all day.

Way too broad a question.

One could argue that without the IRA we wouldn't have peace.

SlowMotion321

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

I have been thinking what would life be like if the IRA never existed .

There would be a lot more people walking around today instead of 'dissapeared'!

TheCitizen

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

I have personally started to enjoy Irish politics, I honestly can't abide Sinn Fein I disagree with the policies and I don't think the sums add up. That aside I have been thinking what would life be like if the IRA never existed would we have peace today.

We have peace today, what are you on about? What’s up with their policies exactly? Just a general kind of I don’t like them thing is it

gossipgirl123

If we had peaceful marches in the 90s with no IRA would world leaders get involved or did we need the bloodshed.

gossipgirl123

@TheCitizen.... I don't like Sinn Fein I think they are loudmouthed gob****es who offer nothing. Each to their own but not my type of people

chicken foot

rdwight wrote: »

If there had been no IRA we would probably be 5-10 years away from a United Ireland as dictated by demographics.

This is a very, very simplistic view based on your personal opinion of what you view as "the IRA". The six counties were chosen strategically. The quality of the land and the Protestant to Catholic ratio - which was higher there and would allow voting in their favour. But, as with all oppressors, they pushed too far and the people fought back (with absolutely no help from the South i might add). They were subjected to "No Catholics need apply", they were forced out of their homes and were dehumanized completely. Had they of just lay down and took it, you have no idea where the current border would lie today..who's to say they wouldnt have pushed down further into the 26? We will never know but you implying that the IRA slowed the process down is completely down to your own dislike of what they currently represent.

For clarity, the modern day IRA (mid-90's on) are a bunch of drug dealing scumbags who sold out the cause a long time ago..that's not to say they were never needed or that those that went before them weren't essential to protecting catholic lives. Its easy to look back and declare them "terrorists" and what not, but, to me those that do that are kinda like anti-vaxxers. Its all well and good hating on vaccines when you've never physically seen the illnessess first hand. If you never lived in the north, particularly during the worst of times then you really don't have the right to declare what was/wasn't the correct thing to do. We hail those from 1916 as heros - whats the difference to those who fought back in the 60's/70's?

dundalkfc10

SlowMotion321 wrote: »

There would be a lot more people walking around today instead of 'dissapeared'!

We would also still be ruled by the Brits

AMKC

Kylo Ren wrote: »

We'd all be supporting supporting British sports teams and watching British TV channels and shows and drinking tea while complaining about the weather all day.

I have disagree here. I still think we would have got our independence it just would have taken longer. Maybe it would have happened after WW2 instead of before it. I think if we had of been part of thf British Empire when WW2 happened we would have been bombed by the Germans and we would have got to build our cities the way we want but with underground railway too. I think after it Britain would have pulled out like they did in India and in other Country's they occupied because they could not afford it anymore. The troubles in the North would have been different maybe more like the race wars in America in the 60s or not happen at all unless another group were to fight for freedom like the IRA maybe in a less violent way. Maybe less lifes would have been lost or more lifes would be lost.

mynamejeff

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

We would also still be ruled by the Brits

like the Indians and Australians Canadians etc ect ect ,


shinnerbots have nothing to do now that the show funerals are over for the min

SlowMotion321

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

We would also still be ruled by the Brits

I doubt that!

mynamejeff

shinnerbots of the internet unite ,


tick them off as they arrive for duty !!

dundalkfc10

mynamejeff wrote: »

like the Indians and Australians Canadians etc ect ect ,


shinnerbots have nothing to do now that the show funerals are over for the min

Have Shooting Lessons later and then a zoom call on making bombs

biko

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

I have personally started to enjoy Irish politics, I honestly can't abide Sinn Fein I disagree with the policies and I don't think the sums add up. That aside I have been thinking what would life be like if the IRA never existed would we have peace today.

If there was no IRA....
/grammar nazi


On topic, in 1916 the Brits were doing a military occupation and needed to be met with military/paramilitary means.

mynamejeff

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Have Shooting Lessons later and then a zoom call on making bombs

tick

SlowMotion321

biko wrote: »

If there was no IRA....
/grammar nazi


On topic, in 1916 the Brits was doing a military occupation and needed to be met with military/paramilitary means.

Agreed, I assumed the OP was referring to their current incarnation, if I am wrong i apologise, my ire is directed at those scum!

Gods Gift

What would we sing in the pubs late at night?

Which IRA?

physioman

There would be 1700 less lives lost

Bob Harris

physioman wrote: »

There would be 1700 less lives lost

Would you not consider the lives lost on both sides?

gossipgirl123

chicken foot wrote: »

This is a very, very simplistic view based on your personal opinion of what you view as "the IRA". The six counties were chosen strategically. The quality of the land and the Protestant to Catholic ratio - which was higher there and would allow voting in their favour. But, as with all oppressors, they pushed too far and the people fought back (with absolutely no help from the South i might add). They were subjected to "No Catholics need apply", they were forced out of their homes and were dehumanized completely. Had they of just lay down and took it, you have no idea where the current border would lie today..who's to say they wouldnt have pushed down further into the 26? We will never know but you implying that the IRA slowed the process down is completely down to your own dislike of what they currently represent.

For clarity, the modern day IRA (mid-90's on) are a bunch of drug dealing scumbags who sold out the cause a long time ago..that's not to say they were never needed or that those that went before them weren't essential to protecting catholic lives. Its easy to look back and declare them "terrorists" and what not, but, to me those that do that are kinda like anti-vaxxers. Its all well and good hating on vaccines when you've never physically seen the illnessess first hand. If you never lived in the north, particularly during the worst of times then you really don't have the right to declare what was/wasn't the correct thing to do. We hail those from 1916 as heros - whats the difference to those who fought back in the 60's/70's?

Thanks for your response to be honest I dont know much about the troubles. It's only now I am starting to read up on it. It's amazing how life is different within the last 20 odd years.
I am not saying IRA were wrong by any means us irish were treated badly. The violence used on both sides is unimaginable to me it's very sad.

Hannibal36

Everything would be pretty much the same as it is now except less dead people,all they did was use the common mans genuine grievance to grab power and then behaved just like the British so it would be no different.Is Ryan Tubridy not proof of their power grab.

mordeith

biko wrote: »

If there was no IRA....
/grammar nazi


On topic, in 1916 the Brits was doing a military occupation and needed to be met with military/paramilitary means.

Grammar Nazi and then followed the 'the Brits was doing' ...tsk, tsk.

gossipgirl123

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Everything would be pretty much the same as it is now except less dead people,all they did was use the common mans genuine grievance to grab power and then behaved just like the British so it would be no different.Is Ryan Tubridy not proof of their power grab.

What's the story on Ryan Tubs

whisky_galore

biko wrote: »

If there was no IRA....
/grammar nazi


On topic, in 1916 the Brits was doing a military occupation and needed to be met with military/paramilitary means.

the Brits *were* ...

SlowMotion321

Bob Harris wrote: »

Would you not consider the lives lost on both sides?

The question referred to the IRA, not the UVF, VHS, Betamax or any of the others

blanch152

By the early 1970s, there was a realisation that things needed to change in Northern Ireland. Dialogue between the Dublin and London governments made that clear.

Once Sunningdale was negotiated, a formula for peace into the medium and long-term was in place. Little changed between Sunningdale and the GFA, with Seamus Mallon calling it Sunningdale for slow learners. If we had had no PIRA, we would have had peace and prosperity in the North over 40 years ago. All-Ireland co-operation would be further advanced, and the two economies would be much better off.

Not only did thousands suffer and die at the hands of the PIRA, but millions would be living better lives if they had never existed.

gossipgirl123

mordeith wrote: »

Grammar Nazi and then followed the 'the Brits was doing' ...tsk, tsk.

Hands up I cant get my head around the theres and wheres I really tried just doesn't sink in.

gossipgirl123

At what point do you decide I will pick up a gun and kill or become a bomb maker.

Zebra3

blanch152 wrote: »

By the early 1970s, there was a realisation that things needed to change in Northern Ireland. Dialogue between the Dublin and London governments made that clear.

Once Sunningdale was negotiated, a formula for peace into the medium and long-term was in place. Little changed between Sunningdale and the GFA, with Seamus Mallon calling it Sunningdale for slow learners. If we had had no PIRA, we would have had peace and prosperity in the North over 40 years ago. All-Ireland co-operation would be further advanced, and the two economies would be much better off.

Not only did thousands suffer and die at the hands of the PIRA, but millions would be living better lives if they had never existed.

So the IRA were to blame for Loyalists bringing down the Sunningdale Agreement?

grayzer75

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

We would also still be ruled by the Brits

Most of the ones on here would love that........

Zebra3

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

At what point do you decide I will pick up a gun and kill or become a bomb maker.

For most members of the British army, 17.

They then proceed to take their terror around the world.

Bob Harris

SlowMotion321 wrote: »

The question referred to the IRA, not the UVF, VHS, Betamax or any of the others

One only existed because the others did.

whisky_galore

There would be an IRB, or an ARI, or perhaps a RAI.

seamus

It's a complicated topic. Assuming you're just talkng about the IRA that appeared in the 1950s/60s, then I expect we probably wouldn't be a million miles away from where we are now. The economic damage in Northern Ireland was caused by British policy well before any armed struggle broke out, so we can't assume NI would be a prosperous wealthier statelet without the IRA.

The British apartheid policies in relation to religion would still have persisted, and would still have created considerable tension. IRA activity likely caused the UK to escalate their policies and dig the heels in, but even with them, there would have remained spurts of civil unrest and clashes between Catholic communities and the RUC/BA. There may still have been no-go areas at some point and without the organisation of the IRA may have resulted in a much more desperate Tianemen square-style outcome for the residents.

Without the justification of an insurgency, the UK would have far less international support for a jackboot approach to Northern Ireland, and the inevitable wave of human rights would have forced the same changes that we today.

However, one big difference would be that without the Good Friday Agreement, Stormont would be very different. Devolution probably would have happened, but gerrymandering and other anti-democratic policies would likely have remained in place, with the DUP holding a strong perennial majority and stifling a lot of the progress we have seen. It would mean that NI could still to this day be struggling with civil unrest and much greater deprivation and inequality for its non-loyalist population.

Risingshadoo

Is he talking about the PIRA or the original IRA during the twenties. Without the first version of it, we wouldn't have a State. Without the second version of it, we wouldn't have the Good Friday agreement.

I don't support Sinn Fein or the Provos by the way (but I can understand why they did what they did), I'm just trying to answer your question.

It would have been interesting to see the result of Brexit if the whole of Ireland was still in the UK.

StupidLikeAFox

bubblypop wrote: »

Which IRA?

I think Pepe are fooling themselves if they think they can tell the difference between the real IRA and "I Can't Believe it's not the IRA"

SlowMotion321

Bob Harris wrote: »

One only existed because the others did.

That may be true but the question didn't refer to them! Don't get me wrong I am no fan of those either! Just staying OT

If there were NO IRA there would still be a lot of underlying malais and sectarianism. The later disempowerment of the Catholic church would metastasise this:

I remember something from "Ireland's Own"
back in the day, many years ago.

In the 19th century, this musical entertainer had a great routine in a circus like atmosphere.

He then proceeded for his final act to combine the "Irish" Flag at the time in one hand with the Union Jack in the other hand, with a little ditty.

The crowd went mental and turned on him, and each other.

There would be no DELOREAN CAR FACTORY:

FACT: John DeLoroean set up his factory in Northern Ireland, because he got UK Government grants (because he was going to employ both IRA as well as Loyalist "gang members" on his production line) as the factory would be located in a sort of war zone (cheapest location to build)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mln2SymT73s&t=1103s

rdwight

rdwight wrote: »

If there had been no IRA we would probably be 5-10 years away from a United Ireland as dictated by demographics.

chicken foot wrote: »

This is a very, very simplistic view based on your personal opinion of what you view as "the IRA". The six counties were chosen strategically. The quality of the land and the Protestant to Catholic ratio - which was higher there and would allow voting in their favour. But, as with all oppressors, they pushed too far and the people fought back (with absolutely no help from the South i might add). They were subjected to "No Catholics need apply", they were forced out of their homes and were dehumanized completely. Had they of just lay down and took it, you have no idea where the current border would lie today..who's to say they wouldnt have pushed down further into the 26? We will never know but you implying that the IRA slowed the process down is completely down to your own dislike of what they currently represent.

Of course that is a view based on my personal opinion (what else can I express) and of course it's simplistic - projecting counterfactual history forward from a hundred years ago can only be simplistic.

However given that a Home Rule act was on the table a 100 years ago and that Sunningdale was on the table in the early 70's it's hard to imagine that things wouldn't have progressed to where they are now without the violence.

Looking at the changes that have taken place throughout the world and in particular in the Free State over the last 50 and 100 years it's hard not to think that violence has only served to hinder change.

gossipgirl123

I'm more interested in the IRA of the 90s

gossipgirl123

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

Hands up I cant get my head around the theres and wheres I really tried just doesn't sink in.

No hope of you getting your head around the OIRA, PIRA, CIRA, RIRA, NIRA then?

gossipgirl123

bubblypop wrote: »

No hope of you getting your head around the OIRA, PIRA, CIRA, RIRA, NIRA then?

🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣

Hannibal36

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

I'm more interested in the IRA of the 90s

They done nothing,does anybody really believe we would have Gay Marriage in the South here and an Apartheid State in the North,only difference they made is more dead and a few Sein Fein in power,the rest would have happened without violence.

James Brown

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

If we had peaceful marches in the 90s with no IRA would world leaders get involved or did we need the bloodshed.

What makes you think you'd have been allowed gather to protest? Would you have a vote?

What the IRA were changed with the times as we got closer to equality and recognition it ultimately led to peace talks. It's too handy to look at the IRA in the 90's in a bubble. Arguably their own actions with SF towards peace made themselves less relevant.