Direct Provision to be Abolished

Jurgen Klopp · 28-06-2020 7:30pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

Let's not forget that the NGO sector are part of the industry too.

Sure the more refugees and migrants the more money for the NGOs and Charities

I remember during the migrant crisis a few years back one of the most ardent supporters on here that Ireland could take tens of thousands was outed as working for one , she was only delighted at her nice little earner helping them fill in forms if I remember

Slowyourrole · 28-06-2020 7:32pm

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

The scary thing is that saying no to open borders and championing restricted immigration based on skills/needs and genuine, quickly processed and vetted, refugees, is now viewed by many, especially in the MSM, as a "far-right" position.

The far right position is the one that claims everyone but them wants open borders and they are the only ones who want an effective and fair system.

Rockbeast2 · 28-06-2020 7:41pm

Slowyourrole wrote: »

The far right position is the one that claims everyone but them wants open borders and they are the only ones who want an effective and fair system.

Well, the "position" suggested in my post that you quoted would be an historical centrist position, no?

Danzy · 28-06-2020 8:46pm

Slowyourrole wrote: »

The far right position is the one that claims everyone but them wants open borders and they are the only ones who want an effective and fair system.

What the modern left call a far right position on migration is a traditional left wing one and very much a working class one.

suicide_circus · 28-06-2020 9:00pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

It's part of their worldview- an upper class Victorian idea of deserving and undeserving poor.

this.

28-06-2020 9:08pm

I can't see why anyone would want Direct Provision to continue. Whatever your viewpoint, it's a disaster.

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 9:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't see why anyone would want Direct Provision to continue. Whatever your viewpoint, it's a disaster.

Even most of the abolitionists admit there is a need for some kind of DP-style system in place. When pushed on it.

Apart from that, the system protects the tax payer- alternatives would be 3, 4 times more expensive.

Gatling · 28-06-2020 9:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't see why anyone would want Direct Provision to continue. Whatever your viewpoint, it's a disaster.

So give us a real alternative other than open borders with full access to welfare and social housing immediately on arrival

Beechwoodspark · 28-06-2020 9:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't see why anyone would want Direct Provision to continue. Whatever your viewpoint, it's a disaster.

What’s your alternative ? I’m open minded and looking to hear what people are proposing

Danzy · 28-06-2020 9:12pm

FVP3 wrote: »

it's basically a class war. I don't know how much social housing is available every year but if asylum seekers get the bulk of them then of course people who otherwise would have been on the list will get angry. It is a zero sum game. And if works out then more will come, of course.

Still be interesting to see what will happen. Sinn Fein are going to be in a hard place here, for while their leadership is middle class the base is definitely not.

The Middle Class activist left never have forgiven the working class for not following unquestioningly.

They despise the working class now, while speaking about solidarity and working class politics.

This is across the western world.

Class MayDresser · 28-06-2020 9:15pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

What’s your alternative ? I’m open minded and looking to hear what people are proposing

Fly them back to where they came from. They can do an Aer Lingus fanfare a la Covid PPE to celebrate.

28-06-2020 9:17pm

I don't know what the best system should be.

But at present it's;

-Enormous waste of tax payer money (going directly into the pockets of political BFFs).

-Inefficient in the whole application process.

I don't think it matters whether you're on the left or right of the political spectrum, I assumed everyone would be in agreement that serious reform was needed.

suicide_circus · 28-06-2020 9:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

-Inefficient in the whole application process.

The problem with making the process more efficient is it will inevitably lead to more people being deported.

28-06-2020 9:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know what the best system should be.

But at present it's;

-Enormous waste of tax payer money (going directly into the pockets of political BFFs).

-Inefficient in the whole application process.

I don't think it matters whether you're on the left or right of the political spectrum, I assumed everyone would be in agreement that serious reform was needed.

We know this.

So what is the solution? If the solution was easy the politicians would have done it years ago. They LOVE easy fixes.

I hear lots of campaign slogans about abolishing it all the time online.

So what system should replace it?

frozenfrozen · 28-06-2020 9:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know what the best system should be.

But at present it's;

-Enormous waste of tax payer money (going directly into the pockets of political BFFs).

-Inefficient in the whole application process.

I don't think it matters whether you're on the left or right of the political spectrum, I assumed everyone would be in agreement that serious reform was needed.

You do realise end direct provision means they literally want to end it and have people go straight into houses and dole?

Your position is much closer to don't abolish direct provision than it is to abolish

Eric Cartman · 28-06-2020 9:22pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

The problem with making the process more efficient is it will inevitably lead to more people being deported.

I fail to see that as a problem.

suicide_circus · 28-06-2020 9:24pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I fail to see that as a problem.

Yes but the people proposing the end of DP are likely to see that as a problem.

Spanish Eyes · 28-06-2020 9:32pm

The big problem is that we are silenced when it comes to voicing our views regarding the total shambles that the asylum process is now.

Cannot open our mouths. Not ONE media outlet will accept or even allow debate on the issue anymore, unless it is pro asylum seekers, chancers that they are. It's like the Emperor's new clothes now.

That is fascism if you ask me, but is couched as liberal leftism.

Gradius · 28-06-2020 9:45pm

Invest significantly in all international ports. A rigorous system of identification and tracking for all non-nationals.

Establish an extra-EU immigration mega center, followed by a fair system of allocation that provides for temporary relocation without any chance of permanent relocation.

Following actual laws already established, a la the Dublin Convention, would greatly help.

Biker79 · 28-06-2020 9:50pm

The media have to be left-leaning and intolerant of conservative viewpoints to appease the sensibilities of their advertisers, which is their main/ only stream of revenue.

Because no brand can afford to be remotely associated with any contentious subject, especially one that can be misconstrued as bigotry/ racism.

What a mess.

Clarence Boddiker · 28-06-2020 9:52pm

Biker79 wrote: »

The media have to be left-leaning and intolerant of conservative viewpoints to appease the sensibilities of their advertisers, which is their main/ only stream of revenue.

Because no brand can afford to be remotely associated with any contentious subject, especially one that can be misconstrued as bigotry/ racism.

What a mess.

Much of the print medias advertisement revenue comes from the Govt itself.

Jizique · 28-06-2020 9:53pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

The problem with making the process more efficient is it will inevitably lead to more people being deported.

How is that a problem? If they are not entitled to asylum, they should be made aware of that within a month

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 9:56pm

If DP is so bad, why are there 600-800 residents with Refugee Status or Subsidiary Protection free to leave at any time?

28-06-2020 9:56pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

You do realise end direct provision means they literally want to end it and have people go straight into houses and dole?

Your position is much closer to don't abolish direct provision than it is to abolish

This is not the case at all.

Gatling · 28-06-2020 9:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is not the case at all.

So what is the case then?

Rubberchikken · 28-06-2020 9:59pm

Instead of having people in DP for years make it extremely difficult to come into this country in the first place.

We accept seemingly everyone. We don't seem to insist that they learn English, get work, integrate, contribute to this country.
Instead we accept that a large number have no wish or need to learn English, to work, to become contributing members of society, accept that they choose to leave their country so should now abide by the law and rules of our country.
The whining left want foreigners to be allowed in, just don't house them anywhere near them.

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 10:06pm

What are the better value for money alternatives to the current system of DP for housing asylum seekers, given the reason for the current system is that it is the cheapest possible?

Gradius · 28-06-2020 10:07pm

How about a one-in-one-out policy?

If someone is gagging to have some randomer come here, they can do a swap. Maybe an initial swap of two years, followed by an irreversible swap of citizenship.

I mean, they're happy to give away collective ownership all ready, so just make it a bit more specific!

Gradius · 28-06-2020 10:09pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

What are the better value for money alternatives to the current system of DP for housing asylum seekers, given the reason for the current system is that it is the cheapest possible?

The establishment of an extra-EU processing center.

Its going to happen anyway, as mad as it sounds.

perfectkama · 28-06-2020 10:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not the case at all.

I will ask you too so answer ?

Eric Cartman · 28-06-2020 10:11pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

What are the better value for money alternatives to the current system of DP for housing asylum seekers, given the reason for the current system is that it is the cheapest possible?

border patrol agents at the door of every plane checking passports and sending anyone back immediately without a valid one.

cutting off social welfare entitlement for 10 years upon entry and remove the ability to 'reunite families' down the line.

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 10:16pm

Gradius wrote: »

The establishment of an extra-EU processing center.

Its going to happen anyway, as mad as it sounds.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

border patrol agents at the door of every plane checking passports and sending anyone back immediately without a valid one.

cutting off social welfare entitlement for 10 years upon entry and remove the ability to 'reunite families' down the line.

Not bad ideas, but 1) You'll never eliminate people smuggling, and 2) What about applications for asylum not made at the border? You can apply for asylum at any time - eg, an international student who has been here studying for years can simply rock up at the International Protection Office and claim asylum

Eric Cartman · 28-06-2020 10:19pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

Not bad ideas, but 1) You'll never eliminate people smuggling, and 2) What about applications for asylum not made at the border? You can apply for asylum at any time - eg, an international student who has been here studying for years can simply rock up at the International Protection Office and claim asylum

people smuggling can be assisted by x-raying trucks at seaports , removing the welfare entitlement will go a long way to prevent welfare tourism. No solution is ever iron clad but people getting off planes without documents is a huge issue.

Gradius · 28-06-2020 10:19pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

Not bad ideas, but 1) You'll never eliminate people smuggling, and 2) What about applications for asylum not made at the border? You can apply for asylum at any time - eg, an international student who has been here studying for years can simply rock up at the International Protection Office and claim asylum

And off to processing they go. This isn't some wacky idea of a central processing centre, it is pretty much inevitable. Whether it's in turkey or Morocco or what have you.

And by the way, that's being generous. Assuming the climactic problems incoming it is not unreasonable to see a zero immigration policy across Europe, refugee or not.

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 10:20pm

Gradius wrote: »

And off to processing they go. This isn't some wacky idea of a central processing centre, it is pretty much inevitable. Whether it's in turkey or Morocco or what have you.

I know, the EU have been pushing this for a while. Whether it ever happens is another thing.

Gatling · 28-06-2020 10:25pm

Maybe we can ask the eu to end the migrant taxi service in the med to be ended immediately and use the naval forces to deter and return migrants back to the coast of Africa ,

the immortals · 28-06-2020 10:33pm

Free accommodation
Free food
Free legal aid
Free healthcare

70 the 80% asylum applicants rejected
A billion euro spent on direct Provision since 2000

The world's poor are on their way to Ireland and why not, once you get here it doesn't matter what fairy tale you tell in the IPO (international protection office)
it has to be assessed and when your application is refused there's a myriad of NGOs to advise you on your appeal after appeal after appeal, it's also an absolute goldmine for the legal profession and anyone who owns a hotel or bnb.

The whole thing is bizarre and costs a fortune for nothing in return

Dontfadeaway · 28-06-2020 10:33pm

I don’t see how they can change it. They can’t give them houses just like that.

The greed from some of the DP providers is disgusting though, hopefully they can sort that somehow.

frozenfrozen · 28-06-2020 10:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not the case at all.

what is the case then

Yellow_Fern · 28-06-2020 10:51pm

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

The greed from some of the DP providers is disgusting though, hopefully they can sort that somehow.

Why?

Spanish Eyes · 28-06-2020 10:54pm

Doubt anything will change. Ireland seems to want to be the best in the biz for the Asylum Seekers. Merkel can you hear us, just in case we need another bailout or anything.

marty whelan · 28-06-2020 10:56pm

You have no idea what you are talking about. The real figure is much much more in favour of the accommodation provider

marty whelan · 28-06-2020 10:57pm

No one ever seems to mention the amount of money spent on legal fees for asylum seekers challenging deportation orders etc. That's the real scandal.

Spanish Eyes · 28-06-2020 10:58pm

Whisper it, we cannot and are not allowed to say anything about DP. EVER.

Honestly this country is turning into a totally controlled environment now.

When did anyone ever hear anyone in print, radio, tv or wherever say anything about the asylum system being a total scam? Gwan now, it is a total joke.

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 11:00pm

It's all good and well saying some hotel owners/DP providers are greedy and exploiting the situation.

But we have to accept that the State isn't always the most effective or efficient (!) provider of services, and if it were the case that the State was running centres, the costs and liability to the tax payer would be far higher.

Gatling · 28-06-2020 11:01pm

marty whelan wrote: »

No one ever seems to mention the amount of money spent on legal fees for asylum seekers challenging deportation orders etc. That's the real scandal.

30 + million per year going back a few years ago from another thread if I remember correctly

SFC1895 · 28-06-2020 11:02pm

marty whelan wrote: »

No one ever seems to mention the amount of money spent on legal fees for asylum seekers challenging deportation orders etc. That's the real scandal.

Exactly. I mentioned this a few pages back. It's an industry, and the legal professionals need to be fed

Working class heroes · 28-06-2020 11:04pm

I thought boards was supposed to be left wing?

The fcuking echoes in hear are horrendous.

Bobblehats · 28-06-2020 11:08pm

Spanish Eyes · 28-06-2020 11:09pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

I thought boards was supposed to be left wing?

The fcuking echoes in hear are horrendous.

About time too that all voices are heard, not just the leftie communistas with time on their hands.

Direct Provision to be Abolished

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