Rejected - What Now?

Gbear · 28-05-2019 2:31pm #1

Just got an email from UCC telling me I haven't gotten into the course I was going for - Data Science.

I'm 29, have no other qualifications and if I'm being honest I kinda bet the farm on this. I really don't know where to go from here.

I don't really feel like waiting a year doing **** all only to be rejected for it again.

I knew with only five places it could be tight, but I thought I had a brilliant chance given my experience working in programming. Evidently it wasn't enough.

hayser · 28-05-2019 3:43pm

Could you do a PLC or cert / diploma course to increase your chances for next year? At least that way you have qualifications on your CV as well.

Gbear · 28-05-2019 4:01pm

hayser wrote: »

Could you do a PLC or cert / diploma course to increase your chances for next year? At least that way you have qualifications on your CV as well.

I had already been looking at the courses in St Johns College.

I've sent an email to UCC to see if they can give a bit of feedback.
That may well be their suggestion, but I'm not really sure what it'll give me that might tip the balance.

If I get rejected again next year, will a QQI 5 actually be worth anything to me?

I'm not trying to suggest I know everything, far from it, but I don't know what the difference will be for an employer/university between 3-4 years of experience, and the same plus a level 5 qualification.

Most of all I'm kind of baffled at what the calibre of the other candidates must be. Again, not a genius who knows everything, but I really felt like I'd compare favourably to anyone short of a maths or comp sci degree holder, and i dont think they'd apply for this course. They'd just do a masters or something.

It's quite possible that I'm just venting here, but honestly I'm crushed by this.

Gbear · 30-05-2019 1:48pm

I've heard back from the assessors for the course.

They've pointed to my d in honours LC maths and essentially said I couldn't hack it. I don't blame them for coming to that conclusion because that's all they have to go on.

I was a lazy **** when I was 18 and had **** study habits and no structure to how I learned.
I found maths to be pretty straightforward until LC and when I needed to start applying myself I didn't have the habit and I kinda just drifted out of the higher levels of acheivement.

When I did apply myself I usually was rewarded with good results.

I'm all but certain that I would have the ability to do this course. Does anyone have any suggestions for making that case to the assessors?

Are there any sort of remedial courses that might perhaps bridge the gap?

banie01 · 30-05-2019 1:50pm

I don't know about UCC but I know in UL there is the option of a STEM specific access course that would cover of the maths requirement.

Sorry to hear you've not got in this time around, but hopefully an access course will allow you to get in there.

am27 · 04-06-2019 11:29am

UL are accepting late applications for their Mature Student Access Certificate until July 26th if that's any use to you.

https://ulsites.ul.ie/mso/mature-student-access-certificate

skooterblue2 · 04-06-2019 3:53pm

Gbear wrote: »

I've heard back from the assessors for the course.

They've pointed to my d in honours LC maths and essentially said I couldn't hack it. I don't blame them for coming to that conclusion because that's all they have to go on.

I was a lazy **** when I was 18 and had **** study habits and no structure to how I learned.
I found maths to be pretty straightforward until LC and when I needed to start applying myself I didn't have the habit and I kinda just drifted out of the higher levels of acheivement.

When I did apply myself I usually was rewarded with good results.

I'm all but certain that I would have the ability to do this course. Does anyone have any suggestions for making that case to the assessors?

Are there any sort of remedial courses that might perhaps bridge the gap?

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

04-06-2019 4:01pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

A man who has relevant experience and a drive to do the course will do better than many who come out of school hearing it's a good industry.

My brother flunked his leaving hard and went back to study when he was 29 and was by far the best in the class. You underestimate the value of experience and the resulting interest imo.

Unless this course uses full on Maths, I don't see why he'd be at such a disadvantage.

hairyprincess · 04-06-2019 4:07pm

I would highly highly recommend doing the Access course. I think it would benefit you massively in next years application.

Gbear · 04-06-2019 4:23pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

Yes, maths has changed for leaving cert. It's apparently an awful lot easier. And I got closer to 500 points than 400.

Your post would be fine if they indicated a particular competence was required in maths along certain qualifications in the CAO and/or they held, like many other courses do, including others in UCC, an aptitude test, remedial course or similar to gain entry to the course.

My issue isn't that I wasn't accepted. It's that they've basically said I'm a dummy and I can never get in.

You haven't a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the worthless, mean spirited feedback.

banie01 · 04-06-2019 4:26pm

am27 wrote: »

UL are accepting late applications for their Mature Student Access Certificate until July 26th if that's any use to you.

https://ulsites.ul.ie/mso/mature-student-access-certificate

I was just coming on to post this.
Received a mailshot re: it yesterday, I'd hope that UCC offer something similar?
Or have a mature student office as switched on as UL's seem to be?
Was looking at a return to education myself this year, and of the Institutions I've been in touch with, UL have by far been the most proactive.

MrMusician18 · 04-06-2019 4:28pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

Are you always a prick, or only sometimes?

I didn't see any entitlement, only someone looking for advice.

OP, if UCC are saying that maths is the issue, then perhaps look at doing a course which demonstrates your ability now.

is_that_so · 04-06-2019 4:34pm

Gbear wrote: »

Yes, maths has changed for leaving cert. It's apparently an awful lot easier. And I got closer to 500 points than 400.

Your post would be fine if they indicated a particular competence was required in maths along certain qualifications in the CAO and/or they held, like many other courses do, including others in UCC, an aptitude test, remedial course or similar to gain entry to the course.

My issue isn't that I wasn't accepted. It's that they've basically said I'm a dummy and I can never get in.

You haven't a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the worthless, mean spirited feedback.

The Maths thing is a big deal and we had to help out at least half a dozen on our course who'd only done ordinary level. It's a general perception from UCC that your Maths and logical processing might not be strong enough. They are making a call on how they think you'd cope with the overall course. I'd focus on other options that might make you a better fit or which could work for you and ignore those who just want to litter threads with juvenile ranting. Take a time out, regroup and see what else is out there.

And 29 is not washed up. Lots of 40+, 50+, even 60+ folks wandering around third level institutions.

spaceHopper · 04-06-2019 4:37pm

Can you do an open university course in a field of maths to prove them wrong or give them something else to go on

banie01 · 04-06-2019 4:38pm

is_that_so wrote: »

And 29 is not washed up. Lots of 40+, 50+, even 60+ folks wandering around third level institutions.

+1!
If I get an offer, I'll be hitting 40 in 1st year!

is_that_so · 04-06-2019 4:40pm

banie01 wrote: »

+1!
If I get an offer, I'll be hitting 40 in 1st year!

Was about that when I graduated. Never too old. Best of luck to you.

skooterblue2 · 04-06-2019 5:28pm

Gbear wrote: »

Yes, maths has changed for leaving cert. It's apparently an awful lot easier. And I got closer to 500 points than 400.

Your post would be fine if they indicated a particular competence was required in maths along certain qualifications in the CAO and/or they held, like many other courses do, including others in UCC, an aptitude test, remedial course or similar to gain entry to the course.

My issue isn't that I wasn't accepted. It's that they've basically said I'm a dummy and I can never get in.

You haven't a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the worthless, mean spirited feedback.

Dont blame it on me. I have been in the same position turning up at an engineering course without honours Maths and Physics. I was bet out after 2 year, there were other issues but I was massively under prepared for the initial requirements. And yeah I had that interview too this year where I was told I was unprepared for the year ahead. That is why I am not too grand to do an access course.

Go and do your ground work and learn how to do a proper interview, like I had to do. They must really not have liked your interview technique. Learn what they are looking for. You never indicated that you had close to 500 on your leaving cert, so how was I supposed to know that, when you suggested you just drifted off. Its kind of hard to offer you a position when some other guy has been busting himself on a PLC and turning in assignments for the last 2 years doing programming and Cyber security on a level 5.

Not everybody who is nice to you is your friend and not everyone who is cruel to you is your enemy. I am guessing they saw something that wasnt addressed and didnt want to waste the time and effort to tell you.

boombang · 04-06-2019 5:35pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You never indicated that you had close to 500 on your leaving cert, so how was I supposed to know that

So you just made an assumption, dude?

skooterblue2 · 04-06-2019 5:43pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Are you always a prick, or only sometimes?

I didn't see any entitlement, only someone looking for advice.

OP, if UCC are saying that maths is the issue, then perhaps look at doing a course which demonstrates your ability now.

Hey I am someone who has been through the educational wringer and know were all the pitfalls and death traps are. I am not the prophet of false hope.

I hate leading people on with false hope. If there are only 4 places for matures and there are students coming out of St John, PLCs, College of Comm and repeat leavings who have invested 2 years in study and the University has a history of taking students from these courses. They are entitled to those places first if the university thinks so. Its not me you have to impress its them.

am27 · 04-06-2019 5:47pm

banie01 wrote: »

am27 wrote: »

UL are accepting late applications for their Mature Student Access Certificate until July 26th if that's any use to you.

https://ulsites.ul.ie/mso/mature-student-access-certificate

I was just coming on to post this.
Received a mailshot re: it yesterday, I'd hope that UCC offer something similar?
Or have a mature student office as switched on as UL's seem to be?
Was looking at a return to education myself this year, and of the Institutions I've been in touch with, UL have by far been the most proactive.

I second that about UL's mature student office. I've applied this year and UL have been great. I had some questions before I filled out the CAO and they couldn't have been more helpful.

skooterblue2 · 04-06-2019 5:47pm

boombang wrote: »

So you just made an assumption, dude?

There was no evidence to the contrary from the OPs statement. But it does look good if a previously high scorer drifts off the educational reservation. Where were you for those 10 years? You could see why lecturers made those assumptions. Other people can make assumptions too, and its their opinions that count when it comes to handing out places.

I had a bad interview this year and you know what? I got over it and moved onto the next interview and got the course.

Gbear · 04-06-2019 5:49pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Dont blame it on me. I have been in the same position turning up at an engineering course without honours Maths and Physics. I was bet out after 2 year, there were other issues but I was massively under prepared for the initial requirements. And yeah I had that interview too this year where I was told I was unprepared for the year ahead. That is why I am not too grand to do an access course.

Go and do your ground work and learn how to do a proper interview, like I had to do. They must really not have liked your interview technique. Learn what they are looking for. You never indicated that you had close to 500 on your leaving cert, so how was I supposed to know that, when you suggested you just drifted off. Its kind of hard to offer you a position when some other guy has been busting himself on a PLC and turning in assignments for the last 2 years doing programming and Cyber security on a level 5.

Not everybody who is nice to you is your friend and not everyone who is cruel to you is your enemy. I am guessing they saw something that wasnt addressed and didnt want to waste the time and effort to tell you.

They didn't offer an interview in the first place.
It would've been another thing they could've done where I would've known where I stood and could understand how they came to their decision.

Fair enough, and apologies for going off on you, but I'm seriously pissed off, just in general because of the disappointment, and also the way they've handled it.

No interview, no entry guidance, no MSAP, no requirements given for the course before they were sprung on me later, no communication, an apparent dismissal of any context offered by my Personal Statement with no comment, leaving me scratching my head about how to proceed.

I might well have gotten in to something like Computer Science, and unlike Data Science, it has a pathway through FETAC or some such that allows people an alternative route, but it wasn't by accident that I chose this course. I know a bit about CS and I'd like to know more, but I'm not one of these programming hobbyists who works on open source operating systems in their spare time.
I do however tend to analyse data and I've always been interested in statistical maths, and maths more broadly. I don't think there is a course that's a better fit. I know that if I get in I'll piss it (while having to work really hard).

Gbear · 04-06-2019 5:50pm

Also, I was being a bit cheeky about the closer to 500 points thing.

I got 455. :pac:

04-06-2019 5:54pm

Unfortunately you are dealing with academia, they see a 29 year old who got close to 500 pts in the LC 10 years ago ish but who got a D in maths.
That doesn't really tally with the comment below in their heads I imagine and I'm sure you can see why.

Gbear wrote: »

...............
I do however tend to analyse data and I've always been interested in statistical maths, and maths more broadly. I don't think there is a course that's a better fit. I know that if I get in I'll piss it (while having to work really hard).

If you've no qualifications beyond the LC did you previously do a 3rd level spell that didn't go as planned or did you never go near 3rd level.

As someone else had mentioned you are up against folk who have spent a couple of years putting themselves back on the academic path.

boombang · 04-06-2019 5:54pm

Gbear wrote: »

Also, I was being a bit cheeky about the closer to 500 points thing.

I got 455. :pac:

That is closer to 500.

: )

Airyfairy12 · 04-06-2019 5:57pm

You have a much better chance getting into a third level course if youve a a related QQI level 5 or 6 under your belt.
Another option is to complete an apprenticeship, you'll be working and earning money. A degree isnt worth much anymore and most employers require a masters and a recommendation from someone they know.

skooterblue2 · 04-06-2019 6:00pm

Gbear wrote: »

They didn't offer an interview in the first place.
It would've been another thing they could've done where I would've known where I stood and could understand how they came to their decision.

Fair enough, and apologies for going off on you, but I'm seriously pissed off, just in general because of the disappointment, and also the way they've handled it.

No interview, no entry guidance, no MSAP, no requirements given for the course before they were sprung on me later, no communication, an apparent dismissal of any context offered by my Personal Statement with no comment, leaving me scratching my head about how to proceed.

Hey its ok you are pissed. Also University Lecturers know the format they want to see, like a pathway of progression. They want to see the "return to education in appropriate stages". Also Lecturers are perfect or psychologists and most dont have great interview technique past their own course knowledge. I got asked if I was going to have a Humanist or Catholic wedding this year (SMH!!!). Go learn their playbook.

banie01 · 04-06-2019 6:00pm

am27 wrote: »

I second that about UL's mature student office. I've applied this year and UL have been great. I had some questions before I filled out the CAO and they couldn't have been more helpful.

Best of luck with getting it!
With a bit of luck I may see ya from afar during Freshers week and wonder to myself...
Is that am27?

MarinersBlues · 04-06-2019 6:03pm

Gbear wrote: »

Just got an email from UCC telling me I haven't gotten into the course I was going for - Data Science.

I'm 29, have no other qualifications and if I'm being honest I kinda bet the farm on this. I really don't know where to go from here.

I don't really feel like waiting a year doing **** all only to be rejected for it again.

I knew with only five places it could be tight, but I thought I had a brilliant chance given my experience working in programming. Evidently it wasn't enough.

I don't know the extent of your experience of programming but if it is strong enough maybe you could get a RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) and have a look at some Springboard courses which can be 1 or 2 year.
A lot of them will be just getting approval now so will be starting to accept applications.

There are an awful lot of Data Science courses being offered through Springboard.

https://springboardcourses.ie/details/7392
This course may be a good back up and get you on the right path. Particularly if there is a question over your mathematical ability.

https://springboardcourses.ie/results?keywords=Data&course_levels%5B%5D=UG&perPage=25

https://springboardcourses.ie/details/7001

mycro2013 · 04-06-2019 6:04pm

Touch base with cit, and see if they have any similar course. Plenty of other institutes and universities.

banie01 · 04-06-2019 6:04pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

. Also Lecturers are perfect or psychologists and most dont have great interview technique past their own course knowledge.

This quite true.
Many of the Course Directors I've encountered have very poor actual interview skills.
Learning a little about what they may be after, either by attending a Mature student open night or at a push, an email to the course director before the interview to ask a few pertinent questions could be a way to both gain some insight into what they want, and leave a good impression.

Rejected - What Now?

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