Rejected - What Now?

Gbear

Just got an email from UCC telling me I haven't gotten into the course I was going for - Data Science.

I'm 29, have no other qualifications and if I'm being honest I kinda bet the farm on this. I really don't know where to go from here.

I don't really feel like waiting a year doing **** all only to be rejected for it again.

I knew with only five places it could be tight, but I thought I had a brilliant chance given my experience working in programming. Evidently it wasn't enough.

hayser

Could you do a PLC or cert / diploma course to increase your chances for next year? At least that way you have qualifications on your CV as well.

Gbear

hayser wrote: »

Could you do a PLC or cert / diploma course to increase your chances for next year? At least that way you have qualifications on your CV as well.

I had already been looking at the courses in St Johns College.

I've sent an email to UCC to see if they can give a bit of feedback.
That may well be their suggestion, but I'm not really sure what it'll give me that might tip the balance.

If I get rejected again next year, will a QQI 5 actually be worth anything to me?

I'm not trying to suggest I know everything, far from it, but I don't know what the difference will be for an employer/university between 3-4 years of experience, and the same plus a level 5 qualification.

Most of all I'm kind of baffled at what the calibre of the other candidates must be. Again, not a genius who knows everything, but I really felt like I'd compare favourably to anyone short of a maths or comp sci degree holder, and i dont think they'd apply for this course. They'd just do a masters or something.

It's quite possible that I'm just venting here, but honestly I'm crushed by this.

Gbear

I've heard back from the assessors for the course.

They've pointed to my d in honours LC maths and essentially said I couldn't hack it. I don't blame them for coming to that conclusion because that's all they have to go on.

I was a lazy **** when I was 18 and had **** study habits and no structure to how I learned.
I found maths to be pretty straightforward until LC and when I needed to start applying myself I didn't have the habit and I kinda just drifted out of the higher levels of acheivement.

When I did apply myself I usually was rewarded with good results.

I'm all but certain that I would have the ability to do this course. Does anyone have any suggestions for making that case to the assessors?

Are there any sort of remedial courses that might perhaps bridge the gap?

banie01

I don't know about UCC but I know in UL there is the option of a STEM specific access course that would cover of the maths requirement.

Sorry to hear you've not got in this time around, but hopefully an access course will allow you to get in there.

am27

UL are accepting late applications for their Mature Student Access Certificate until July 26th if that's any use to you.

https://ulsites.ul.ie/mso/mature-student-access-certificate

skooterblue2

Gbear wrote: »

I've heard back from the assessors for the course.

They've pointed to my d in honours LC maths and essentially said I couldn't hack it. I don't blame them for coming to that conclusion because that's all they have to go on.

I was a lazy **** when I was 18 and had **** study habits and no structure to how I learned.
I found maths to be pretty straightforward until LC and when I needed to start applying myself I didn't have the habit and I kinda just drifted out of the higher levels of acheivement.

When I did apply myself I usually was rewarded with good results.

I'm all but certain that I would have the ability to do this course. Does anyone have any suggestions for making that case to the assessors?

Are there any sort of remedial courses that might perhaps bridge the gap?

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

A man who has relevant experience and a drive to do the course will do better than many who come out of school hearing it's a good industry.

My brother flunked his leaving hard and went back to study when he was 29 and was by far the best in the class. You underestimate the value of experience and the resulting interest imo.


Unless this course uses full on Maths, I don't see why he'd be at such a disadvantage.

hairyprincess

I would highly highly recommend doing the Access course. I think it would benefit you massively in next years application.

Gbear

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

Yes, maths has changed for leaving cert. It's apparently an awful lot easier. And I got closer to 500 points than 400.

Your post would be fine if they indicated a particular competence was required in maths along certain qualifications in the CAO and/or they held, like many other courses do, including others in UCC, an aptitude test, remedial course or similar to gain entry to the course.

My issue isn't that I wasn't accepted. It's that they've basically said I'm a dummy and I can never get in.

You haven't a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the worthless, mean spirited feedback.

banie01

am27 wrote: »

UL are accepting late applications for their Mature Student Access Certificate until July 26th if that's any use to you.

https://ulsites.ul.ie/mso/mature-student-access-certificate

I was just coming on to post this.
Received a mailshot re: it yesterday, I'd hope that UCC offer something similar?
Or have a mature student office as switched on as UL's seem to be?
Was looking at a return to education myself this year, and of the Institutions I've been in touch with, UL have by far been the most proactive.

MrMusician18

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

Are you always a prick, or only sometimes?

I didn't see any entitlement, only someone looking for advice.

OP, if UCC are saying that maths is the issue, then perhaps look at doing a course which demonstrates your ability now.

is_that_so

Gbear wrote: »

Yes, maths has changed for leaving cert. It's apparently an awful lot easier. And I got closer to 500 points than 400.

Your post would be fine if they indicated a particular competence was required in maths along certain qualifications in the CAO and/or they held, like many other courses do, including others in UCC, an aptitude test, remedial course or similar to gain entry to the course.

My issue isn't that I wasn't accepted. It's that they've basically said I'm a dummy and I can never get in.

You haven't a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the worthless, mean spirited feedback.

The Maths thing is a big deal and we had to help out at least half a dozen on our course who'd only done ordinary level. It's a general perception from UCC that your Maths and logical processing might not be strong enough. They are making a call on how they think you'd cope with the overall course. I'd focus on other options that might make you a better fit or which could work for you and ignore those who just want to litter threads with juvenile ranting. Take a time out, regroup and see what else is out there.

And 29 is not washed up. Lots of 40+, 50+, even 60+ folks wandering around third level institutions.

spaceHopper

Can you do an open university course in a field of maths to prove them wrong or give them something else to go on

banie01

is_that_so wrote: »

And 29 is not washed up. Lots of 40+, 50+, even 60+ folks wandering around third level institutions.

+1!
If I get an offer, I'll be hitting 40 in 1st year!

is_that_so

banie01 wrote: »

+1!
If I get an offer, I'll be hitting 40 in 1st year!

Was about that when I graduated. Never too old. Best of luck to you.

skooterblue2

Gbear wrote: »

Yes, maths has changed for leaving cert. It's apparently an awful lot easier. And I got closer to 500 points than 400.

Your post would be fine if they indicated a particular competence was required in maths along certain qualifications in the CAO and/or they held, like many other courses do, including others in UCC, an aptitude test, remedial course or similar to gain entry to the course.

My issue isn't that I wasn't accepted. It's that they've basically said I'm a dummy and I can never get in.

You haven't a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the worthless, mean spirited feedback.

Dont blame it on me. I have been in the same position turning up at an engineering course without honours Maths and Physics. I was bet out after 2 year, there were other issues but I was massively under prepared for the initial requirements. And yeah I had that interview too this year where I was told I was unprepared for the year ahead. That is why I am not too grand to do an access course.

Go and do your ground work and learn how to do a proper interview, like I had to do. They must really not have liked your interview technique. Learn what they are looking for. You never indicated that you had close to 500 on your leaving cert, so how was I supposed to know that, when you suggested you just drifted off. Its kind of hard to offer you a position when some other guy has been busting himself on a PLC and turning in assignments for the last 2 years doing programming and Cyber security on a level 5.

Not everybody who is nice to you is your friend and not everyone who is cruel to you is your enemy. I am guessing they saw something that wasnt addressed and didnt want to waste the time and effort to tell you.

boombang

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You never indicated that you had close to 500 on your leaving cert, so how was I supposed to know that

So you just made an assumption, dude?

skooterblue2

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Are you always a prick, or only sometimes?

I didn't see any entitlement, only someone looking for advice.

OP, if UCC are saying that maths is the issue, then perhaps look at doing a course which demonstrates your ability now.

Hey I am someone who has been through the educational wringer and know were all the pitfalls and death traps are. I am not the prophet of false hope.

I hate leading people on with false hope. If there are only 4 places for matures and there are students coming out of St John, PLCs, College of Comm and repeat leavings who have invested 2 years in study and the University has a history of taking students from these courses. They are entitled to those places first if the university thinks so. Its not me you have to impress its them.

am27

banie01 wrote: »

am27 wrote: »

UL are accepting late applications for their Mature Student Access Certificate until July 26th if that's any use to you.

https://ulsites.ul.ie/mso/mature-student-access-certificate

I was just coming on to post this.
Received a mailshot re: it yesterday, I'd hope that UCC offer something similar?
Or have a mature student office as switched on as UL's seem to be?
Was looking at a return to education myself this year, and of the Institutions I've been in touch with, UL have by far been the most proactive.

I second that about UL's mature student office. I've applied this year and UL have been great. I had some questions before I filled out the CAO and they couldn't have been more helpful.

skooterblue2

boombang wrote: »

So you just made an assumption, dude?

There was no evidence to the contrary from the OPs statement. But it does look good if a previously high scorer drifts off the educational reservation. Where were you for those 10 years? You could see why lecturers made those assumptions. Other people can make assumptions too, and its their opinions that count when it comes to handing out places.

I had a bad interview this year and you know what? I got over it and moved onto the next interview and got the course.

Gbear

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Dont blame it on me. I have been in the same position turning up at an engineering course without honours Maths and Physics. I was bet out after 2 year, there were other issues but I was massively under prepared for the initial requirements. And yeah I had that interview too this year where I was told I was unprepared for the year ahead. That is why I am not too grand to do an access course.

Go and do your ground work and learn how to do a proper interview, like I had to do. They must really not have liked your interview technique. Learn what they are looking for. You never indicated that you had close to 500 on your leaving cert, so how was I supposed to know that, when you suggested you just drifted off. Its kind of hard to offer you a position when some other guy has been busting himself on a PLC and turning in assignments for the last 2 years doing programming and Cyber security on a level 5.

Not everybody who is nice to you is your friend and not everyone who is cruel to you is your enemy. I am guessing they saw something that wasnt addressed and didnt want to waste the time and effort to tell you.

They didn't offer an interview in the first place.
It would've been another thing they could've done where I would've known where I stood and could understand how they came to their decision.

Fair enough, and apologies for going off on you, but I'm seriously pissed off, just in general because of the disappointment, and also the way they've handled it.

No interview, no entry guidance, no MSAP, no requirements given for the course before they were sprung on me later, no communication, an apparent dismissal of any context offered by my Personal Statement with no comment, leaving me scratching my head about how to proceed.

I might well have gotten in to something like Computer Science, and unlike Data Science, it has a pathway through FETAC or some such that allows people an alternative route, but it wasn't by accident that I chose this course. I know a bit about CS and I'd like to know more, but I'm not one of these programming hobbyists who works on open source operating systems in their spare time.
I do however tend to analyse data and I've always been interested in statistical maths, and maths more broadly. I don't think there is a course that's a better fit. I know that if I get in I'll piss it (while having to work really hard).

Gbear

Also, I was being a bit cheeky about the closer to 500 points thing.

I got 455. :pac:

Gbear

Unfortunately you are dealing with academia, they see a 29 year old who got close to 500 pts in the LC 10 years ago ish but who got a D in maths.
That doesn't really tally with the comment below in their heads I imagine and I'm sure you can see why.

Gbear wrote: »

...............
I do however tend to analyse data and I've always been interested in statistical maths, and maths more broadly. I don't think there is a course that's a better fit. I know that if I get in I'll piss it (while having to work really hard).

If you've no qualifications beyond the LC did you previously do a 3rd level spell that didn't go as planned or did you never go near 3rd level.

As someone else had mentioned you are up against folk who have spent a couple of years putting themselves back on the academic path.

boombang

Gbear wrote: »

Also, I was being a bit cheeky about the closer to 500 points thing.

I got 455. :pac:

That is closer to 500.

: )

Airyfairy12

You have a much better chance getting into a third level course if youve a a related QQI level 5 or 6 under your belt.
Another option is to complete an apprenticeship, you'll be working and earning money. A degree isnt worth much anymore and most employers require a masters and a recommendation from someone they know.

skooterblue2

Gbear wrote: »

They didn't offer an interview in the first place.
It would've been another thing they could've done where I would've known where I stood and could understand how they came to their decision.

Fair enough, and apologies for going off on you, but I'm seriously pissed off, just in general because of the disappointment, and also the way they've handled it.

No interview, no entry guidance, no MSAP, no requirements given for the course before they were sprung on me later, no communication, an apparent dismissal of any context offered by my Personal Statement with no comment, leaving me scratching my head about how to proceed.

Hey its ok you are pissed. Also University Lecturers know the format they want to see, like a pathway of progression. They want to see the "return to education in appropriate stages". Also Lecturers are perfect or psychologists and most dont have great interview technique past their own course knowledge. I got asked if I was going to have a Humanist or Catholic wedding this year (SMH!!!). Go learn their playbook.

banie01

am27 wrote: »

I second that about UL's mature student office. I've applied this year and UL have been great. I had some questions before I filled out the CAO and they couldn't have been more helpful.

Best of luck with getting it!
With a bit of luck I may see ya from afar during Freshers week and wonder to myself...
Is that am27?

MarinersBlues

Gbear wrote: »

Just got an email from UCC telling me I haven't gotten into the course I was going for - Data Science.

I'm 29, have no other qualifications and if I'm being honest I kinda bet the farm on this. I really don't know where to go from here.

I don't really feel like waiting a year doing **** all only to be rejected for it again.

I knew with only five places it could be tight, but I thought I had a brilliant chance given my experience working in programming. Evidently it wasn't enough.

I don't know the extent of your experience of programming but if it is strong enough maybe you could get a RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) and have a look at some Springboard courses which can be 1 or 2 year.
A lot of them will be just getting approval now so will be starting to accept applications.

There are an awful lot of Data Science courses being offered through Springboard.

https://springboardcourses.ie/details/7392
This course may be a good back up and get you on the right path. Particularly if there is a question over your mathematical ability.

https://springboardcourses.ie/results?keywords=Data&course_levels%5B%5D=UG&perPage=25

https://springboardcourses.ie/details/7001

mycro2013

Touch base with cit, and see if they have any similar course. Plenty of other institutes and universities.

banie01

skooterblue2 wrote: »

. Also Lecturers are perfect or psychologists and most dont have great interview technique past their own course knowledge.

This quite true.
Many of the Course Directors I've encountered have very poor actual interview skills.
Learning a little about what they may be after, either by attending a Mature student open night or at a push, an email to the course director before the interview to ask a few pertinent questions could be a way to both gain some insight into what they want, and leave a good impression.

skooterblue2

banie01 wrote: »

This quite true.
Many of the Course Directors I've encountered have very poor actual interview skills.
Learning a little about what they may be after, either by attending a Mature student open night or at a push, an email to the course director before the interview to ask a few pertinent questions could be a way to both gain some insight into what they want, and leave a good impression.

Hey Brown nosing never hurt anyone. Go to the open day maybe twice a year. You find your course director and Mature Student Officer. Press the flesh. Talk to them, get the email, follow up. Make sure they know you before you apply for interview. GET HELP from career guidance particularly the statement. I told my career Guidance officer that she was wasted writing my college statement and should be writing dating profiles for lads straight out of Mount Joy. I used "Simon Sinek, Why?" on youtube.

The last interview I had I looked up the papers what my interviewer had written but closed down the questioning by admitting I didnt read them so I didnt look like a spoofer.

MrMusician18

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Hey I am someone who has been through the educational wringer and know were all the pitfalls and death traps are. I am not the prophet of false hope.

I hate leading people on with false hope. If there are only 4 places for matures and there are students coming out of St John, PLCs, College of Comm and repeat leavings who have invested 2 years in study and the University has a history of taking students from these courses. They are entitled to those places first if the university thinks so. Its not me you have to impress its them.

The OP came here looking for advice about where to go next. They are obviously very disappointed so I don't see the necessity of sticking the boot in by accusing them of having a sense of entitlement that only you can see in your head.

Like I said, the OP needs to get proper feedback from the college (which may be difficult) and work on where they see his/her application needing bolstering. The OP has identified the D in maths as an issue the college have raised, so it may be that the best course of action will be to sit LC maths again, if they have their heart set on UCC. What's worse is that even after that, that doesn't even guarantee entry, we all know that.

A lot of us have been through the wringer when it comes to education with lots of setbacks along the way. Those that have experienced the genuine disappointment that the OP is feeling can have some empathy for their situation without giving false hope or sugar coating the reality, which I haven't seen any of here btw.

Your post though was you needlessly being a dick and you know it.

Gbear

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

You have a much better chance getting into a third level course if youve a a related QQI level 5 or 6 under your belt.
Another option is to complete an apprenticeship, you'll be working and earning money. A degree isnt worth much anymore and most employers require a masters and a recommendation from someone they know.

There's a massive shortage of trained programmers. I can't imagine there's too many data analysts floating about either, and it's a growing field.

Between my years of experience as a full stack developer (albeit a junior one) and the degree, I'm sure I'll be fine.

And it's not like I'm against doing a masters anyway.

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I don't know the extent of your experience of programming but if it is strong enough maybe you could get a RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) and have a look at some Springboard courses which can be 1 or 2 year.
A lot of them will be just getting approval now so will be starting to accept applications.

There are an awful lot of Data Science courses being offered through Springboard.

https://springboardcourses.ie/details/7392
This course may be a good back up and get you on the right path. Particularly if there is a question over your mathematical ability.

I actually tried to gain entry into the Data Science Springboard in CIT last year, but they were quite adamant about needing a 4 year degree.
Again, it's a thing I could've completed without too much trouble but I didn't fit the criteria.

I might get some RPL scattered about a CS degree, but it'd be a long way from enough for the whole course.

Augeo wrote: »

If you've no qualifications beyond the LC did you previously do a 3rd level spell that didn't go as planned or did you never go near 3rd level.

As someone else had mentioned you are up against folk who have spent a couple of years putting themselves back on the academic path.

I would've addressed this in my Personal Statement so they'd be aware.
I went for a Electronic Eng course in CIT (I needed the C3 in maths to get into UCC, which I missed by 1 bloody %), but I wasn't ready to study out of school.
It's something that I'm annoyed with both at myself and the school that this wasn't recognised.

Then I stupidly went for an Arts degree because I thought I needed something, and hated it, and chucked it after the end of 2nd year.

Just to be clear on the maths thing, I never had any trouble with anything in maths. Every time we covered a new topic, I generally found it a breeze. It was just that I never studied when I was 17/18 and it's hard to remember the entire maths syllabus even if you're pretty good at it. I really regret not getting grinds throughout 5th and 6th year, because that would've kept me working at it constantly. I can say without any hint of arrogance that I should've been getting an A in maths and it was a massive failure that I did as badly as I did.

It's something I'm aware of about myself now. I've learned how I need to structure my study/work to get it done, but I didn't have a notion when I was a teenager.

Gbear

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Like I said, the OP needs to get proper feedback from the college (which may be difficult) and work on where they see his/her application needing bolstering. The OP has identified the D in maths as an issue the college have raised, so it may be that the best course of action will be to sit LC maths again, if they have their heart set on UCC. What's worse is that even after that, that doesn't even guarantee entry, we all know that.

Appreciate the post.

On this, I've contacted both Admissions and the Mature Student Office, with as much detail and magnanimity as I can muster. Unfortunately, with the bank holiday, and generally it being the time where staff tend to take time off, I'm yet to hear much back from them (although to be fair, the Mature Student Office said they'd be working on it, just that they weren't there until the end of the week).

MarinersBlues

Gbear wrote: »

I actually tried to gain entry into the Data Science Springboard in CIT last year, but they were quite adamant about needing a 4 year degree.
Again, it's a thing I could've completed without too much trouble but I didn't fit the criteria.

I might get some RPL scattered about a CS degree, but it'd be a long way from enough for the whole course.

The courses I listed are level 7s.
They won't require a degree and they explicitly say they are open to RPLs
They would certainly open the door for a level 8.

skooterblue2

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The OP came here looking for advice about where to go next. They are obviously very disappointed so I don't see the necessity of sticking the boot in by accusing them of having a sense of entitlement that only you can see in your head.

Like I said, the OP needs to get proper feedback from the college (which may be difficult) and work on where they see his/her application needing bolstering. The OP has identified the D in maths as an issue the college have raised, so it may be that the best course of action will be to sit LC maths again, if they have their heart set on UCC. What's worse is that even after that, that doesn't even guarantee entry, we all know that.

A lot of us have been through the wringer when it comes to education with lots of setbacks along the way. Those that have experienced the genuine disappointment that the OP is feeling can have some empathy for their situation without giving false hope or sugar coating the reality, which I haven't seen any of here btw.

Your post though was you needlessly being a dick and you know it.

That is entitlement is you only applied for one course, had pinned all your hopes on one course and looked to the lecturers like you had no ground work done. The College wont give feedback be cause that might be grounds for discrimination.

Whether I am a dick is besides the point. It annoys me when lads just assume there are places there. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously the OP is skipping the due process of preparing for entry. There is no mention of any preparation or progression of education. That looks really bad.

I experience disappointment too. I interviewed 5 times this year for 5 places, 2 that I didnt want said yes. One I wanted said yes and the two I really wanted said No. That's life. I am not crying about it I am getting on with what I have to do and reapply next year.

skooterblue2

Gbear wrote: »

Appreciate the post.

On this, I've contacted both Admissions and the Mature Student Office, with as much detail and magnanimity as I can muster. Unfortunately, with the bank holiday, and generally it being the time where staff tend to take time off, I'm yet to hear much back from them (although to be fair, the Mature Student Office said they'd be working on it, just that they weren't there until the end of the week).

You didnt?!?!?!?! That really looks bad. You would have been better off going to an Adult Education Officer in the VEC and ask them. That makes you look whingy.

JackieChang

It's strange that you couldn't get into CIT data science. I'm about the same age as you and I had no trouble getting onto the course via Springboard. Also got a D in honours maths, and I only have a three year degree. But I don't think they even asked for my LC results. However I have a feeling that "relevant work experience" got me the place.

It was a tough enough course, good few people dropped out towards the end.

Did you put much effort into your cover letter?

Twenty Grand

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

Walk into near any college class in the country and you'll find the mature students are top of the bunch.
Simple fact is you've more to lose at 29 than 19.

A 19 fails the year, so what, just repeat. A 29 year old doesn't have that option.

KeithTS

skooterblue2 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow you just think you can walk on the course without education since you were 18, 10 years ago and when you were there you didnt deliver the goods. WOW that is entitlement.

Buddy it will take you a year to get you into the frame of mind for you to compete with 18 year old who has gotten about 400 point leaving cert. Maths has changed, the maths syllabus has changed. #1 is no longer a prime number btw. Simpsons rule is gone. Massive focus on money and finance.

Seriously dude, who thought it was a good idea to interview you? You need to at least do a PLC and/or spend 2 years resitting your leaving cert before you will be taken seriously. You wont last until christmas without a sound education on that course. There are assignments, honours maths and some fairly serious data structures to learn. You will have wasted a year and someone more deserving could have a place on the course. Pick yourself up dust yourself off and seriously have a look at repeating your leaving cert again so you will be taken seriously.

Lose the attitude please and thanks. The OP is trying to better themselves and shouldn't be berated by you for doing so.
Who do you think you are, attempting to put them in their place for not doing well in an exam when they were 18, ten years ago. You've no idea what they are or aren't capable of now.


To give you some perspective, I dropped out of school at 15 so didn't even have a D in lower LC maths. I applied to do an undergrad in Electronic Engineering (very maths heavy if you must know). Not only did I complete it but I did so with an average of above 90 across every exam. Only a few years later I'm running a very successful engineering team in a large multi-national.


If I'm able achieve that, anyone can. I'm not brighter, nor smarter than anyone else and people in my situation (like the OP) can piss all over the academic achievements of those hyper smart 18 year olds because we know what we want, we're doing a specific course for a specific reason and we've lived life and will be spending a lot of the college experience in the library not the pub. The first few months of college for a mature student without the academic background is tough work but once semester one is over, everyone is typically at the same level.


There is a standard route to education but it's not the only route and one of the great things about the Irish system is that there are paths to enable those who weren't able to do it first time around. That should be celebrated.


OP, look at the mature student access routes, reach out to the universities to see what you need to do in the next few months in order to improve your chances and best of luck!

spurious

Let's keep any replies helpful.

What's done is done. Unless you have suggestions to help the OP, please keep your thoughts to yourself. Thank you.

Airyfairy12

Gbear wrote: »

There's a massive shortage of trained programmers. I can't imagine there's too many data analysts floating about either, and it's a growing field.

Between my years of experience as a full stack developer (albeit a junior one) and the degree, I'm sure I'll be fine.

And it's not like I'm against doing a masters anyway.

Then go for it

skooterblue2

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Walk into near any college class in the country and you'll find the mature students are top of the bunch.
Simple fact is you've more to lose at 29 than 19.

A 19 fails the year, so what, just repeat. A 29 year old doesn't have that option.

I am not saying anything bad about the mature students. Its the approach that is taken. All the mature students I know have either come up through the ETB's (old VECs), PLCs and the repeat Leaving certs. One guy I know has come up from a Level three to doing Honours Maths and has a provisional offer of Astrophysics.

Atoms for Peace

With no academic experience and limited places your chances of getting into UCC were slim to begin with.
But If you have relevant work experience you will walk into any IT course no problem or maybe try UL as I've found them very helpful with my own inquiries in the past.

skooterblue2

KeithTS wrote: »

Lose the attitude please and thanks. The OP is trying to better themselves and shouldn't be berated by you for doing so.
Who do you think you are, attempting to put them in their place for not doing well in an exam when they were 18, ten years ago. You've no idea what they are or aren't capable of now.


To give you some perspective, I dropped out of school at 15 so didn't even have a D in lower LC maths. I applied to do an undergrad in Electronic Engineering (very maths heavy if you must know). Not only did I complete it but I did so with an average of above 90 across every exam. Only a few years later I'm running a very successful engineering team in a large multi-national.


If I'm able achieve that, anyone can. I'm not brighter, nor smarter than anyone else and people in my situation (like the OP) can piss all over the academic achievements of those hyper smart 18 year olds because we know what we want, we're doing a specific course for a specific reason and we've lived life and will be spending a lot of the college experience in the library not the pub. The first few months of college for a mature student without the academic background is tough work but once semester one is over, everyone is typically at the same level.


There is a standard route to education but it's not the only route and one of the great things about the Irish system is that there are paths to enable those who weren't able to do it first time around. That should be celebrated.


OP, look at the mature student access routes, reach out to the universities to see what you need to do in the next few months in order to improve your chances and best of luck!

Thank you for moderating me. I thought that was the moderators job but that is telling me.

I am not belittling the OP. I am telling him that he hasnt put in the necessary ground work to impress the Lecturers. That is the difference. The OP has nothing to prove to me. I have spent half my life try to work out the system and what they are looking for and failing miserably. Its only the last few years I had to eat a lot of humble pie, admit I needed help and actually spend time to find what lecturers really wanted. Dont hate me, hate the system. I sought help..... and it was difficult.

So you went from Junior cert to Undergraduate Electronic Engineering without any courses in between? Not a city and guilds? not a night class? See the difference. Did you just turn up or did you build up to that course?

The speed that college moves at in the first semester is a total recap of the leaving Cert in relevant areas. You need to be prepared for that. I wasnt the second time around and barely kept my head above water, so I am talking from experience. You need to also be academically prepared as well. I never said the OP couldnt go back and do a PLC or LC.

listermint

Gbear wrote: »

There's a massive shortage of trained programmers. I can't imagine there's too many data analysts floating about either, and it's a growing field.

Between my years of experience as a full stack developer (albeit a junior one) and the degree, I'm sure I'll be fine.

And it's not like I'm against doing a masters anyway.

Just to bring some clarity to this.

There's is tonnes of data analysts. Tons.

We were turning people away three years ago at a jobs fair in Dublin due to other quality candidates for graduate positions.

Theres sizable classes in this sector especially in the likes of NCI

MrMusician18

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is entitlement is you only applied for one course, had pinned all your hopes on one course and looked to the lecturers like you had no ground work done. The College wont give feedback be cause that might be grounds for discrimination.

Whether I am a dick is besides the point. It annoys me when lads just assume there are places there. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously the OP is skipping the due process of preparing for entry. There is no mention of any preparation or progression of education. That looks really bad.

I experience disappointment too. I interviewed 5 times this year for 5 places, 2 that I didnt want said yes. One I wanted said yes and the two I really wanted said No. That's life. I am not crying about it I am getting on with what I have to do and reapply next year.

Such nonsense, I hope whatever course you're taking, logic isn't one of them. If I bet all my money on a horse it doesn't give me a sense of entitlement that that horse must win the race. It's risk taking, nothing more.

Although I've not gone through the mature student process, I cannot see any reason why getting feedback would be discriminatory. The public appointments service give feedback on interviews with no issue. The OP will get some feedback if they ask, the only problem is that it might be ****e (it probably will be) and leave them none the wiser as to the next steps. There is no issue with asking for it either, it doesn't make them a whinger. Looking for feedback is perfectly normal in the real world.

I can't see how the OP is skipping due process. They put themselves forward like any other candidate, and unfortunately for them were not successful this time. They didn't play dirty to skip the queue and wasn't suggesting it. They will learn and hopefully get their place next time around hopefully with better guidance on what the college will need.

One could legitimately ask you why you applied for and interviewed for two courses you had no interest in. You wasted the interviewers time and denied an interview for another person who might've genuinely wanted that course.

skooterblue2

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Although I've not gone through the mature student process, I cannot see any reason why getting feedback would be discriminatory. The public appointments service give feedback on interviews with no issue. The OP will get some feedback if they ask, the only problem is that it might be ****e (it probably will be) and leave them none the wiser as to the next steps. There is no issue with asking for it either, it doesn't make them a whinger. Looking for feedback is perfectly normal in the real world.

I can't see how the OP is skipping due process. They put themselves forward like any other candidate, and unfortunately for them were not successful this time. They didn't play dirty to skip the queue and wasn't suggesting it. They will learn and hopefully get their place next time around hopefully with better guidance on what the college will need.

One could legitimately ask you why you applied for and interviewed for two courses you had no interest in. You wasted the interviewers time and denied an interview for another person who might've genuinely wanted that course.

So you dont know what it is like for a mature student or what is required. Not a great point to start from but carry on. So you dont know about the personal statement for the Course Director to read? Or when they ask you what other courses you applied for? When I asked for feedback once that is the reason I was given, they dont give feedback because it could be viewed as discrimination. I know now why I wasnt given the job. Yes that information would have changed my whole life but it wasnt offered.

The OP is disregarding the prefered channels that Adult Education prefer. Try bucking the natural order in any organisation, nobody will thank you for it, its an unwritten rule. I never said they played dirty, those are your words.

I applied for two courses that I had no interest in because they looked similar on the outside but not the same as the course I wanted, so it showed that I had an interest in a similar subject. I am not going to cross 3 counties to go to college or across Dublin city. Sometimes you need to learn to "their game". I know that I didnt have the Chemistry or Physics to the correct level (I do have them but not at honours level). If it waddles and quacks then its probably a duck, so if you look like you want the course and put the work in and have a plan thought out then you will get it. On the other hand if your personal statement goes on about the undying love for the arts but you are applying for business, construction and Finance then your application looks allover the place. Tell them what they want to hear.

I didnt deny anyone anything because as soon as I got the access course I emailed the other lecturer and cancelled his offer, someone else picked it up a week before exams. No harm done. So you dont know how the system works but yet you feel free to criticise me for working the system. What would happen if I only applied for the other two courses I wanted and didnt get them? What would you say to me then? Because then I would have nothing. I didnt write the rules to this game but I have to play it.

Rubberchikken

not hijacking but just want to ask if someone does a course in programming, what are the chances of empmoyment after without experience or without even a placement from the course?

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

not hijacking but just want to ask if someone does a course in programming, what are the chances of empmoyment after without experience or without even a placement from the course?

Not fully sure but if you even get through something like freecodecamp.com, it's supposed to be very good. I did a good chunk and it helped my skills a lot.

I'd recommend it to anyone before delving into an official third level program. It's webdev but programming is programming.