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Chinese atrocities = silence?

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    OP, you should know well by now the Chinese don't give a **** what the rest of the World thinks. And yet the West keeps trading and buying their products, despite all that.

    The reality is, as long as it's cheap people don't care... and that's where they've gained their immense wealth. Capitalism in the West has exploited their lax laws and regulations there, and similarly the Chinese cut corners to make their profits.

    Abhorrent nation to be frank, one that's morally corrupt to its core with a soulless populace with their "Not my business attitude" (I still recall that horrid video of people just stepping over a dying child that got hit by a van).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Because the United States is a fcuking empire. You guys might have a point about chinese imperialism if they were threatening Iran for existing thousands of miles away. China doesn’t have a blue water navy. It’s not an empire.

    China rapidly on track to having one of the biggest navy's in the world ,they also claimed the whole South China seas including neighbours Territorial waters essentially right up to to other states coastline ,
    China is not an empire ,


    been In a coma ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    The consequences of socialism/communism unfortunately. Was the same in the USSR and currently in North Korea and, to a lesser extent, Cuba. But, of course, "that isnt real socialism"

    It's nothing at all to do with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    They've almost driven the pangolin, the worlds only scaled mammal, to extinction because of their love for making weird 'medicine' out of exotic animals.

    Baby-Pangolin.jpg

    Morrissey called them subhuman a few years ago for their treatment of animals. That didn't go down too well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    China being evil just doesn't fit the Leftist agenda.

    An American hunter shoots one elephant legally and the great unwashed left issue death threats on Facebook.

    Chinese funded poachers kill 100 elephants every day to make ornaments and there's nothing but silence.
    Need rhino horn to get a boner too? No problem.

    9 million political prisoners? No problem comrades.
    Forcedcabortions? No problem, women's rights are only so they can have abortions right?

    Lefty hypocrites really are the dumbest people on the planet.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    I’m learning to speak Chinese.

    I realize now that when they try to take my kidneys, I’ll be able to say “don’t take my kidneys please”

    Enjoy dialysis, losers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,365 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Gatling wrote: »
    China , russia ,iran , Pakistan

    Do bad **** it's fine .

    America do something and it's America did this and America did that ,trump is doing this and trump is doing that.

    China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan or several other basket case states carry out atrocities and all we get some how its America's fault

    Pretty sure they do bad sh*t people call them out. Russia got lots of criticism for their war crimes in Ukraine and their shooting down of that passenger flight. Chinas human rights record has long been topic of debate.

    The US are meant to be bastions of freedom and liberty. They portray themselves as leaders of the free world...hence why they are more under the microscope.

    How many Chinese or Pakistan movies have you seen over past 10 years?
    How many Iranian or Russian TV shows have you watched?
    How many Chinese news broadcasts or online podcasts have you consumed?
    What was the last Russian or Pakistan fast food joint you visited?
    What is your favourite Iranian or Pakistan band?
    How many of your family and friends have lived their lives in China, Russia or Iran?
    How many people walking down the street could even name the Chinese or Iranian leaders?

    American culture, society, entertainment and even sport dominates western and in particular Irish lives. We have folks here using American words and phrases because they watch so much US right wing online videos in recent years.

    On flipside pretty much every one of the countries you mentioned are extremely secretive societies. For the most part entering the country isn't easy.. I was just in Russia and it took me couple of weeks just to get a visa for a short enough trip. Then when you get there everyone is Russian and nobody speaks English. Its the exact same thing re: China


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Gatling wrote: »
    China rapidly on track to having one of the biggest navy's in the world ,they also claimed the whole South China seas including neighbours Territorial waters essentially right up to to other states coastline ,
    China is not an empire ,


    been In a coma ?

    They are no where near that yet. The South China Sea is of no consequence to Europeans. Unlike the American empire’s destruction of our near neighbourhood.

    This anti chinese sentiment is driven by racism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    China being evil just doesn't fit the Leftist agenda.

    An American hunter shoots one elephant legally and the great unwashed left issue death threats on Facebook.

    Chinese funded poachers kill 100 elephants every day to make ornaments and there's nothing but silence.
    Need rhino horn to get a boner too? No problem.

    9 million political prisoners? No problem comrades.
    Forcedcabortions? No problem, women's rights are only so they can have abortions right?

    Lefty hypocrites really are the dumbest people on the planet.

    The dumbest people on the planet are non American right wingers who adopt the phraseology of American right wingers.

    Some idiot earlier on was wondering if “we” should do something about China. By we he can only mean the US because Ireland or Albania or Switzerland aren’t going to do much.

    Why should we care about the South China Sea when the US empire is destabilising our area and US ideologies are destabilising Western European culture.

    Europe needs to side with China.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    The dumbest people on the planet are non American right wingers who adopt the phraseology of American right wingers.

    Some idiot earlier on was wondering if “we” should do something about China. By we he can only mean the US because Ireland or Albania or Switzerland aren’t going to do much.

    Why should we care about the South China Sea when the US empire is destabilising our area and US ideologies are destabilising Western European culture.

    Europe needs to side with China.

    Also, like Noam Chomsky pointed out we are responsible for what we do, (when he said we he mean't the US) & how we influence or at least try to influence our own country, we can't control how people in China, Russia, Iran, etc react, just the same it was the job Soviet & Chinese dissidents to try and influence people in the Soviet Union & China.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    iPhones aren’t that cheap.

    To reduce some of the hysteria here - the chinese have 116 people per 100,000 in jail. Less than the U.K. Far less than the US. (About 600).

    This concern about China is fairly typical of anytime the west is challenged.

    And where are you getting these numbers?

    Is it from the Chinese?
    their government doesn't even acknowledge that Tiananmen Square massacre took place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Pretty sure they do bad sh*t people call them out. Russia got lots of criticism for their war crimes in Ukraine and their shooting down of that passenger flight. Chinas human rights record has long been topic of debate.

    The US are meant to be bastions of freedom and liberty. They portray themselves as leaders of the free world...hence why they are more under the microscope.

    How many Chinese or Pakistan movies have you seen over past 10 years?
    How many Iranian or Russian TV shows have you watched?
    How many Chinese news broadcasts or online podcasts have you consumed?
    What was the last Russian or Pakistan fast food joint you visited?
    What is your favourite Iranian or Pakistan band?
    How many of your family and friends have lived their lives in China, Russia or Iran?
    How many people walking down the street could even name the Chinese or Iranian leaders?

    American culture, society, entertainment and even sport dominates western and in particular Irish lives. We have folks here using American words and phrases because they watch so much US right wing online videos in recent years.

    On flipside pretty much every one of the countries you mentioned are extremely secretive societies. For the most part entering the country isn't easy.. I was just in Russia and it took me couple of weeks just to get a visa for a short enough trip. Then when you get there everyone is Russian and nobody speaks English. Its the exact same thing re: China

    No idea about Chinese film or Pakistani film
    I watch loads of Russian Films and TV though. The Russian film industry is huge. And they do thinks better than the US.

    They also do a genre i like..fantasy is huge there. They also do a lot of drama. It's visually and intellectually way ahead of the US.









    Never found it a secret society yes i know the govt is closed cities etc that is not the people tho. I don't think russian society is secretive Very nuanced though. I don't know why people are so distrustful of russia. I mean beyond the govt. America has closed towns too for instance.

    Russia still has lot of ...'closed cities' its difficult to describe.... but that is a government thing.

    I really don't think it's part of russian culture. It's not russian. Its soviet hangover. The extremist paranoia.

    There was a novel that was a satire of Bolshevism by Mikhail Bulgakov it was called a dog's heart. It was made into a Russian movie in the 80s. Its really brilliant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    The Chinese Prime Minister and then Vice President Xi both flew into Shannon on separate occasions in recent years. They got a big official welcome, but very, very few, if any at all protestors came out. Totally different when Trump arrived.
    Crazy stuff when you think about it, anti US protest is cool, but protesting against the much more malevolent Chinese is something no one can be bothered to do.
    I suppose the question is why? There’s a major inconsistency.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The Chinese Prime Minister and then Vice President Xi both flew into Shannon on separate occasions in recent years. They got a big official welcome, but very, very few, if any at all protestors came out. Totally different when Trump arrived.
    Crazy stuff when you think about it, anti US protest is cool, but protesting against the much more malevolent Chinese is something no one can be bothered to do.
    I suppose the question is why? There’s a major inconsistency.

    The broader culture cares about, pays attention to, and has more links to the US than the PRC 100 times over. The US occupies a large part of our (and many other countries) mindspace. It's a global cultural hegemon. And a global military hegemon. Despite their pretentions, and some would say overstated GDP, the PRC doesn't come close.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Got to admire them hongkonians


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭BlackandGreen


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    China being evil just doesn't fit the Leftist agenda.

    An American hunter shoots one elephant legally and the great unwashed left issue death threats on Facebook.

    Chinese funded poachers kill 100 elephants every day to make ornaments and there's nothing but silence.
    Need rhino horn to get a boner too? No problem.

    9 million political prisoners? No problem comrades.
    Forcedcabortions? No problem, women's rights are only so they can have abortions right?

    Lefty hypocrites really are the dumbest people on the planet.


    The fact that people have to turn this into another HURR IM LEFT UR RIGHT shít flinging contest, between the ultra conservative and the ultra liberals is the dumbest fúckin thing in the planet and if you participate in it you're no better than what you're berating.



    Just because the mainstream media and some western liberals have their agenda focused on western social issues doesn't mean the entire left is turning a blind eye.

    There are hundreds upon thousands of people criticising china and taking a stance against them.
    There are also an equal amount of brainwashed morons defending them.


    You don't even care about China, you just want to use your agenda to take a jab at "de left!". You're no better.
    Cop the fúck on and grow up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Bobblehats wrote: »
    Got to admire them hongkonians

    Do you know what this is all about?

    It's actually about the murder of a young pregnant girl in Taiwan...the murderer fled to Hong Kong and will escape justice for his despicable crime because Hong Kong cannot extradite his kind either to Taiwan or similar criminals to mainland China or even try them in Hong Kong itself.

    The end result of those protests is that a young girl and her unborn child are being denied justice.

    And there ain't nothing to admire about that!.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    archer22 wrote: »
    Do you know what this is all about?

    It's actually about the murder of a young pregnant girl in Taiwan...the murderer fled to Hong Kong and will escape justice for his despicable crime because Hong Kong cannot extradite his kind either to Taiwan or similar criminals to mainland China or even try them in Hong Kong itself.

    The end result of those protests is that a young girl and her unborn child are being denied justice.

    And there ain't nothing to admire about that!.

    You mean a murder has been used as a pretext to ram through extremely unpopular legislation that has profoundly negative implications for civil liberties in the territory.

    Perhaps read up on the H K booksellers that ended up spirited away to the mainland for selling material unfavourably viewed by BJ.

    More ironic that the PRC refuses to extradite it's nationals to any jurisdiction, even for the most serious of crimes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭BlackandGreen


    archer22 wrote: »
    Do you know what this is all about?

    It's actually about the murder of a young pregnant girl in Taiwan...the murderer fled to Hong Kong and will escape justice for his despicable crime because Hong Kong cannot extradite his kind either to Taiwan or similar criminals to mainland China or even try them in Hong Kong itself.

    The end result of those protests is that a young girl and her unborn child are being denied justice.

    And there ain't nothing to admire about that!.


    No, thats being used by the Chinese as an excuse to curbstomp civil liberties and take over Hong Kong from the inside, extradite every person they deem a criminal, i.e anybody who criticises the PRC and speaks out against their atrocities.

    I urge you to actually read into this more than just that.


    There have been numerous protest over the past week with over a million people attending every time.


    Do you genuinely believe that those 1 million people are out there protesting because they don't want 1 murderer extradited?



    Please educate yourself and spend more time reading about what the ramifications and history of China trying to overtake Hong Kong are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭dublin99


    Please take a few minutes to watch this clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RdnVtfZPY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3pNqSrTCz-3UVzI7ABc3yMcTGF9-Agds7bi1lUhF6k5jw7f2NglkrUAOI

    This impartial video explains the background of the Hong Kong protests.

    People are particularly angry at the way the Hongkong Police used excessive force including rubber bullets (aimed at face level) and tear gas to disperse a peaceful protest on 21 June. They called it a riot though they later said only five people were apparently rioting. The Police officers who were brutally attacking protesters and even journalists also removed their badge numbers so they could not be identified.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    No, thats being used by the Chinese as an excuse to curbstomp civil liberties and take over Hong Kong from the inside, extradite every person they deem a criminal, i.e anybody who criticises the PRC and speaks out against their atrocities.

    I urge you to actually read into this more than just that.


    There have been numerous protest over the past week with over a million people attending every time.


    Do you genuinely believe that those 1 million people are out there protesting because they don't want 1 murderer extradited?



    Please educate yourself and spend more time reading about what the ramifications and history of China trying to overtake Hong Kong are.
    Please educate yourself and find out that Hong Kong IS a part of China...there is no "trying to overtake" it's a done deal.
    BTW I was not explaining the reason the protesters were out but rather the reason the lady who runs Hong Kong wanted to change the law.

    I thought that would be obvious!


  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭dublin99


    archer22 wrote: »
    Please educate yourself and find out that Hong Kong IS a part of China...there is no "trying to overtake" it's a done deal.
    BTW I was not explaining the reason the protesters were out but rather the reason the lady who runs Hong Kong wanted to change the law.

    I thought that would be obvious!

    NO! Hong Kong is NOT China. The message is loud and clear. Just look at the banners in the recent protests.

    Sovereignty of Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997 under the Joint Declaration signed between UK and China. HK is a Special Administrative Zone and is governed under the "One Country Two System" principle for 50 years till 2047 which China is trying to ignore. Hong Kong has the specially drafted Basic Law based on common law (which has provisions for freedom of speech, human rights etc which do not exist in China) which is essentially the constitution.

    The most important difference is that Hong Kong has separation of power and RULE of LAW. That does not exist in China. The so called legal system is China is a joke. There is NO fair trial. Whoever gives a bigger bribe wins in Court.

    China tries to eradicate anyone who criticises the country, its leaders or those who help activists who want changes. Just look up the story of Liu Xiaobo or the fate of human rights lawyers like Wang Quanzhang. If the extradition bill passes, anyone (even those transiting through HK airport) can be extradited to China on some made up allegations like subversion and tortured or locked up or just disappeared.

    Hong Kong Chinese distinguish themselves from the mainland Chinese. Many hate the mainlanders. They particularly dislike the mainlanders who have been allowed to move to Hong Kong after the handover. The sheer number has caused crisis in the local housing, education and health system. Hong Kong has also become a money laundering centre and stepping stone to the West for corrupt Chinese Officials, where a one bed room apartment costs upwards of a million euro and young Hongkongers despair as there is no way they can afford their own home!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    dublin99 wrote: »
    NO! Hong Kong is NOT China. The message is loud and clear. Just look at the banners in the recent protests.

    Sovereignty of Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997 under the Joint Declaration signed between UK and China. HK is a Special Administrative Zone and is governed under the "One Country Two System" principle for 50 years till 2047 which China is trying to ignore. Hong Kong has the specially drafted Basic Law based on common law (which has provisions for freedom of speech, human rights etc which do not exist in China) which is essentially the constitution.

    The most important difference is that Hong Kong has separation of power and RULE of LAW. That does not exist in China. The so called legal system is China is a joke. There is NO fair trial. Whoever gives a bigger bribe wins in Court.

    China tries to eradicate anyone who criticises the country, its leaders or those who help activists who want changes. Just look up the story of Liu Xiaobo or the fate of human rights lawyers like Wang Quanzhang. If the extradition bill passes, anyone (even those transiting through HK airport) can be extradited to China on some made up allegations like subversion and tortured or locked up or just disappeared.

    Hong Kong Chinese distinguish themselves from the mainland Chinese. Many hate the mainlanders. They particularly dislike the mainlanders who have been allowed to move to Hong Kong after the handover. The sheer number has caused crisis in the local housing, education and health system. Hong Kong has also become a money laundering centre and stepping stone to the West for corrupt Chinese Officials, where a one bed room apartment costs upwards of a million euro and young Hongkongers despair as there is no way they can afford their own home!
    Which is why Hong Kong needs an extradition treaty with China.

    It's also now becoming a safe haven for murderers not only from the mainland but also from Taiwan as is the case that sparked all of this.

    Do you not think that Carrie Lam has a duty as leader to address this ridiculous situation before Hong Kong turns into the wild west of the east?

    And why should she resign as the protesters demand for simply doing her job :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Theres a trade war going on between china and america,
    Look at human rights in saudia arabia , certain countrys get a pass as long as they supply oil and buy arms from the uk and america .
    Luxembourg and the uk have been money laundering centres for years .Russians set up shell companys and use them to buy property in london ,
    its an easy way to launder money .
    Theres loads of articles about china and surveillancce and the imprisonment of minority groups and anyone who protests about human
    rights .
    people have been kidnapped in hong kong and turned up in chinese prisons and labour camps .
    Hong kong has been a haven of democracy and it has an open neutral
    justice system.
    China wants to pass an extradition bill so they can imprison people who fight for human rights and democracy in china .
    They also are refusing visa ,s to reporters who have written articles
    about the lack of freedom and human rights violations in china .
    Hong kong is a centre for international finance and business in
    the east ,
    they only cancelled the extradition bill because of the massive public protests that accurred .
    The protesters used certain apps to communicate and organise ,and also
    to send images to foreign media .
    All business in china is to a large extent controlled by the chinese
    communist party,
    its well known to open a factory or buy land you may need to bribe officials ,
    All Foreign companys who wish to acess the chinese market
    have to partner up with a chinese company .
    Those people are protesting because they know they will lose all freedom of speech if any one who wants to protest is at risk of being arrested and sent to china and appearing in court where there is no open justice system,
    there is no independent judicial system in china .
    Are you saying because there was one murder in hong kong than all democracy and free speech in hong kong should be erased and it should just be put under the direct control
    of a government which is notorious for corruption and its lack of respect for open independent justice and basic human rights .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    A lot of hypocrisy among critics. I say let them off and let the world burn.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    archer22 wrote: »
    Which is why Hong Kong needs an extradition treaty with China.

    It's also now becoming a safe haven for murderers not only from the mainland but also from Taiwan as is the case that sparked all of this.

    Do you not think that Carrie Lam has a duty as leader to address this ridiculous situation before Hong Kong turns into the wild west of the east?

    And why should she resign as the protesters demand for simply doing her job :confused:


    The PRC will not be extraditing to HK, least of all for party officials. Any corruption gets dealt with in-house, under the veil of the party controlled judiciary. Do you honestly believe that the party would allow an open trial in a common law system and have their dirty laundry aired in full view of the world's media? Come off it.

    Lam has been thoroughly vetted by BJ, the extradition law is BJ's law - the people know this and they don't like it one bit. Like many incidents preceding it, it serves to undermine the 1 country 2 systems framework. BJ has pushed too hard and doesn't understand the blowback. Indeed, they never really have to deal with such things on the mainland, so are completely at sea when it happens. The net effect of trying to accelerate integration is that they have completely lost the younger generation. Connected people aged 50 and over are net beneficiaries of close dealings with BJ, and many held their nose despite not respecting the party, got wealthy, as they knew they'll be pushing up daisies by the time 2047 comes around. Not so for younger people - life has become more difficult for them and they know they'll be around in a couple of decades to deal with the fallout of what's happening today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭fatknacker


    No one cares about colonialism unless it's British colonialism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    The Chinese are not white, so it doesn't fit the modern leftist agenda of the white man is the ultimate evil.
    They are stuck here on whether to condemn the Chinese and appear as "racist" - or they can take the easy way out and put on a pussy hat and wail at the sky for an hour cos Trump said "pussy"


    They'll take the easy way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The Chinese are not white, so it doesn't fit the modern leftist agenda of the white man is the ultimate evil.
    They are stuck here on whether to condemn the Chinese and appear as "racist" - or they can take the easy way out and put on a pussy hat and wail at the sky for an hour cos Trump said "pussy"


    They'll take the easy way.

    I'm going proffer the argument that as a 'rightist' you don't care all that much about the fate of HK either. Just a useful thing to wheel out.

    Governments of all stripes across the West (starting with Nixon and his 'silent majority' right leaning backers) made a Faustian pact with the PRC a long time ago. They were entranced by the prospect of a huge new market of consumers and a cheap pliant labour force to outsource the globe's supply chain to. The theory was one of 'convergance,' that once consumers got a taste for Pizza Hut and Volkswagens, as a natural follow on, they'd start getting a taste for our liberties as well. The west was prepared to overlook almost everything, and I'll argue the right above all, because the money was flowing and Deng Xiaoping wore a cowboy hat at a rodeo once upon a time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    They are literally terrified of their government. And extreme poverty is NORMAL.

    Plus you can't own your own house and its difficult to pass wealth down. Not impossible but hard.

    I live in Spain and all the Chinese here are f*cking LOADED !!!

    Like ridiculous amounts of money....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I live in Spain and all the Chinese here are f*cking LOADED !!!

    Like ridiculous amounts of money....

    Say what you will about the government, and there's much to criticize them on, but the scale of transformation in rural areas is astonishing. I've been lucky enough to see the Chinese countryside over a decade ago, and there was still mostly unpaved roads - a lot of dereliction, no shops, still very much in the great leap forward era.

    You can go back now, and even the poorest provinces like Gansu or Qinghai, there are new public squares, refurbished schools, new roads linking villages and most(or at least a lot of) families will have vehicles. The poverty alleviation and social change has been the biggest the world has ever seen one can argue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Say what you will about the government, and there's much to criticize them on, but the scale of transformation in rural areas is astonishing. I've been lucky enough to see the Chinese countryside over a decade ago, and there was still mostly unpaved roads - a lot of dereliction, no shops, still very much in the great leap forward era.

    You can go back now, and even the poorest provinces like Gansu or Qinghai, there are new public squares, refurbished schools, new roads linking villages and most(or at least a lot of) families will have vehicles. The poverty alleviation and social change has been the biggest the world has ever seen one can argue.

    The days of boiling a dog in a pot so the village can eat are long long gone.

    At what cost though ? , every person in China now will want a western lifestyle, new phone every year, charge said phone every day ... tablet ... laptop.
    Not to mention cars.


    Energy requirements totally unsustainable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    At what cost though ? , every person in China now will want a western lifestyle, new phone every year, charge said phone every day ... tablet ... laptop.
    Not to mention cars.


    Energy requirements totally unsustainable.

    I'd agree, the environmental burden is off the scale. But can we realistically tell an increasingly powerful country that they can't have nice things while Fritz in Dusseldorf and Sandra in Denver can have it all? The West will have to set the pace with climate change initiatives and hope that China will follow suit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Yurt! wrote: »
    I'd agree, the environmental burden is off the scale. But can we realistically tell an increasingly powerful country that they can't have nice things while Fritz in Dusseldorf and Sandra in Denver can have it all? The West will have to set the pace with climate change initiatives and hope that China will follow suit.

    Indeed, long term solution, they can start by having less kids (westerners).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,530 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Indeed, long term solution, they can start by having less kids (westerners).

    the western country with the highest birth rate is new zealand. It is already below the replacement rate. reducing birth rates in western countries will achieve nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,776 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Yurt! wrote: »
    I'd agree, the environmental burden is off the scale. But can we realistically tell an increasingly powerful country that they can't have nice things while Fritz in Dusseldorf and Sandra in Denver can have it all? The West will have to set the pace with climate change initiatives and hope that China will follow suit.

    When people become affluent the birthrate drops. Whether through working harder and longer or just plain negativity associated with children bringing about a drop in affluence and freedom or increased education of women meaning they want a life for themselves.

    Bit rich for westerners telling the world how to live when a modern western invention 'bitcoin' is responsible for the consumption of energy of a small country daily.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    When people become affluent the birthrate drops. Whether through working harder and longer or just plain negativity associated with children bringing about a drop in affluence and freedom or increased education of women meaning they want a life for themselves.

    Bit rich for westerners telling the world how to live when a modern western invention 'bitcoin' is responsible for the consumption of energy of a small country daily.


    Checkout some of the industrial sized bitcoin farms in China. It wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority of mining happened there now. They're well into it - it was and is a useful way get around currency exchange controls aimed at curbing capital flight that the government instituted!


  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭dublin99


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Not so for younger people - life has become more difficult for them and they know they'll be around in a couple of decades to deal with the fallout of what's happening today.

    The young people who had been insensitive to politics (and many were too young to be involved in the Umbrella Movement in 2014) finally had enough and the extradition law was more of a catalyst. However this time round, the youngsters had no leader as such but got together through a popular forum/chatroom (rather like boards.ie) called LIHKG. That's where members discussed strategy and organised flash protests and the barricade of the Police HQ through Telegram and Whatsapp groups.

    To put things in perspectives, there was a suggestion to put front page ads in International newspapers to raise awareness about Hong Kong (after China announced the Hong Kong matter would NOT be raised during the G20) on 27 June. Within a few hours, crowdfunding target of €600,000 was surpassed. The local paypal system was jammed. The power of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Indeed, long term solution, they can start by having less kids (westerners).

    The west isn't the problem; the problem is the USA.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan



    Oh no not the MULSIMS ! Well they may be vanishing in China but they seem to be everywhere here.

    Also what is it with idiots (not pointing at anyone in particular here of course) and video links. I can read. I don't want to watch a thirty minute video.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Indeed, long term solution, they can start by having less kids (westerners).

    Westerners aren’t having enough kids.

    The Chinese are doing something about the environment and have the will to do it. They are signatories of the Paris agreement.

    Democracy is a problem when it comes to the sacrifices needed. Europe is ok. The US is crazy.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-china/chinas-climate-ambition-pledge-could-lead-to-tougher-co2-targets-experts-idUSKCN1TX0SY


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Oh no not the MULSIMS ! Well they may be vanishing in China but they seem to be everywhere here.

    Also what is it with idiots (not pointing at anyone in particular here of course) and video links. I can read. I don't want to watch a thirty minute video.



    It shows Xinjiang where the uighurs have lived for centuries. They live with the Han Chinese in the region.

    It shows the police training all the Han Chinese in the region to beat people up. All han business owners in the city etc.

    It shows police marching random people down the streets.

    It shows police stopping anyone from speaking to foreigners on camera.

    It speaks to former detainees. They say their houses were taken by Han Chinese when they were detained.

    They say women were forced to have pregnancy tests and all pregnancies where aborted. They say they want to get rid of the Uighur population. They say their DNA was taken. That the shape of their noses was measured. Their voices recorded.

    They say Uighur children are being taken from their parents and put in orphanages.

    They say detainees are kept for years with their feet in shackles. One woman says her feet where in shackles for one year three months and ten days.

    They say there are empty towns where its clear whole families children etc have disappeared.

    Over one million Uighurs are thought to be detained or worse dead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    beejee wrote: »
    That's a fantastically bad idea.

    There was some uproar in Canada (?) not so long ago, about Chinese students reporting back to china on the "inappropriate behaviour" of other students.

    They're hardly going to come home and report on how great it is. The wise will keep their mouths shut.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    There is only one solution lads...head off to Beijing and tell them to their faces what you think of them.

    Flights leave every day and it's only an 8 hour flight from Amsterdam.

    Look at the stories you have to tell us when (if) you get back :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    archer22 wrote: »
    There is only one solution lads...head off to Beijing and tell them to their faces what you think of them.

    Flights leave every day and it's only an 8 hour flight from Amsterdam.

    Look at the stories you have to tell us when (if) you get back :D

    I’ve lived in China and had perfectly honest conversations with people who were openly critical of the regime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    archer22 wrote: »
    There is only one solution lads...head off to Beijing and tell them to their faces what you think of them.

    Flights leave every day and it's only an 8 hour flight from Amsterdam.

    Look at the stories you have to tell us when (if) you get back :D


    Only the dragon can change it.

    The Chinese don't tend to revolt but when they do it tends to be sudden and ALL of them at once.

    Their strength is their sheer population. Its why the govt waits until its calmer and picks on minorities. They are easy targets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Only the dragon can change it.

    The Chinese don't tend to revolt but when they do it tends to be sudden and ALL of them at once.

    Their strength is their sheer population. Its why the govt waits until its calmer and picks on minorities. They are easy targets.

    Don't be so sure you know them..I have met many who were supportive of Mao, including a former girlfriend.

    Problem with many westerners is they believe western propaganda sh1t and think that most Chinese feel the same.


  • Site Banned Posts: 16 lipso tokko


    archer22 wrote: »
    There is only one solution lads...head off to Beijing and tell them to their faces what you think of them.

    a great bunch of lads


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I’ve lived in China and had perfectly honest conversations with people who were openly critical of the regime.

    Story time! You can't leave it at that.


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