Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

jimbobaloobob · 10-05-2019 11:48pm

I agree with you but unfortunately hard to see a settlement happening.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-05-2019 11:58pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I agree with you but unfortunately hard to see a settlement happening.

People said that about Northern Ireland once.

biko · 10-05-2019 11:59pm

The youth movement of the ruling Social Democrats in Sweden was caught chanting an anti-Zionist song on May 1st.
They may now lose their state funding.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190508/malm-youth-politicians-probed-for-anti-zionist-chant

jimbobaloobob · 11-05-2019 12:02am

They did for sure. Not too well versed on the politicians in that region. You seem well versed in it all.

ILoveYourVibes · 11-05-2019 12:03am

biko wrote: »

The youth movement of the ruling Social Democrats in Sweden was caught chanting an anti-Zionist song on May 1st.
They may now lose their state funding.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190508/malm-youth-politicians-probed-for-anti-zionist-chant

GO SWEDEN!

biko · 11-05-2019 12:16am

Fun fact about Sweden, their foreign minister is banned from entering Israel.

https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-bans-swedish-foreign-minister-margot-wallstrom-palestinian-knife-attackers-stabbing-intifada/

ILoveYourVibes · 11-05-2019 12:23am

biko wrote: »

Fun fact about Sweden, their foreign minister is banned from entering Israel.

https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-bans-swedish-foreign-minister-margot-wallstrom-palestinian-knife-attackers-stabbing-intifada/

She wasn't banned they just cancelled an official visit.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-renews-ties-with-swedish-foreign-minister-1.5627975

And they have improved relations with her now. The Israeli ambassador in stockholm met with her.

Odhinn · 11-05-2019 10:57am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is a highly misleading map.

There was never a state called Palestine in the 40s much less with defined borders. ..................

There was the mandate and it did indeed have defined borders.

batgoat · 11-05-2019 11:03am

biko wrote: »

Fun fact about Sweden, their foreign minister is banned from entering Israel.

https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-bans-swedish-foreign-minister-margot-wallstrom-palestinian-knife-attackers-stabbing-intifada/

During a Swedish parliamentary debate Tuesday, Wallström called for an investigation into whether Palestinian assailants were victims of “extrajudicial killings.” The suggestion was met with fury from Israel's foreign ministry, which called her remarks “irresponsible and delusional,” according to reports in the Israeli press.

It's a pretty unreasonable reason to ban her from the country, raising human rights concerns is reasonable. Israel does have a history of questionable killings. This does not condone the stabbings in any way, that's the reality.

Danzy · 11-05-2019 1:57pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think the Arab world is done with religious political leaders. I sense a shift.

The Arab Street is more radical now than in the past.

In free and fair elections I doubt there would be one Arabic nation that would not elect it at least have in contention an Islamist party.

That trend will continue to Intensify imho.

Odhinn · 11-05-2019 3:00pm

Danzy wrote: »

The Arab Street is more radical now than in the past.

In free and fair elections I doubt there would be one Arabic nation that would not elect it at least have in contention an Islamist party.

That trend will continue to Intensify imho.

Unfortunately a lot of Arab states have been run by relatively secular western backed regimes. This gives the Islamists the advantage of having hurled from the ditch for decades, with a clean sheet as regards corruption and so on.

Odhinn · 11-05-2019 3:04pm

batgoat wrote: »

It's a pretty unreasonable reason to ban her from the country, raising human rights concerns is reasonable. Israel does have a history of questionable killings. This does not condone the stabbings in any way, that's the reality.

Until the Americans talked sense into them, they assasinated people all over Western Europe -in France in particular. More recently they targeted members of the Iranian nuclear effort.

Danzy · 12-05-2019 9:50am

Labour activist yesterday warned Jewish orgs over the antisemitism problem, said they are in the gutter with rats, were a fifth column.

Something about Rabbis being behind a Synagogue shooting but I didn't fully get his rambled point.

Naturally thousands cheered.

Modern Left in Britain.

This is not a small problem, it is structural and ideological at this stage.

I'd consider myself left.

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 10:38am

Danzy wrote: »

Labour activist yesterday warned Jewish orgs over the antisemitism problem, said they are in the gutter with rats, were a fifth column.

Something about Rabbis being behind a Synagogue shooting but I didn't fully get his rambled point.

Naturally thousands cheered.

Modern Left in Britain.

This is not a small problem, it is structural and ideological at this stage.

I'd consider myself left.

....would you happen to have a link to that?

Danzy · 12-05-2019 10:39am

Odhinn wrote: »

....would you happen to have a link to that?

On Twitter, didn't keep the link.

markodaly · 12-05-2019 12:12pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There's more nobbling of Corbyn than actual anti-semetism going on here. There's a definite bias and it's not related to anti-semetism, but it's nice mud to throw. If it wasn't anti-semetism it would be something else.

Do you not think one can call out this stuff?
Is it not worthy to call out anti-Semitism when people see it, regardless of who spouts it?

markodaly · 12-05-2019 12:18pm

Odhinn wrote: »

1 - no, it isn't. Take a look at the death tolls for an idea of whose really on the receiving end.

2 - Israel - by building colonies for its citizens in the West Bank etc - is the aggressor. There's no if buts or maybes.

1. Body count has no correlation with policy or what a people want.

2. Really? Hamas sending rockets into Israel? Hezbollah? Iran? Not that I agree with settlements, I don't, but pointing all the blame on Israel and ignoring all other state actors is the usual bias we see regarding this issue.

Blueshoe · 12-05-2019 12:21pm

I see it but I don't care. Is that bad?

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 12:23pm

markodaly wrote: »

1. Body count has no correlation with policy or what a people want.

I was referring to what and whose foot the boot was on.

markodaly wrote: »

2. Really? Hamas sending rockets into Israel? Hezbollah? Iran? Not that I agree with settlements, I don't, but pointing all the blame on Israel and ignoring all other state actors is the usual bias we see regarding this issue.

...while Israel is acting as an aggressor, it can hardly claim to be the subject of unjustified attacks.

markodaly · 12-05-2019 12:24pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I
Israel is a rogue criminal state by action and design.

This is anti-Semitic, according to IHRA.
Perhaps you should check your bias and re-examine your world view.

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 12:30pm

markodaly wrote: »

This is anti-Semitic, according to IHRA.
Perhaps you should check your bias and re-examine your world view.

.....a classic example of using the cry of anti-semitism to silence critics. The facts are that Israel has - against international law - been colonising the occupied territories. It's occassionally used assasination in Europe and abroad, most recently against those involved in the iranian nuclear program. As a result, the claim of "criminal state" is not without foundation. The ethnicity of Israels population doesn't come into it.

markodaly · 12-05-2019 12:33pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I was referring to what and whose foot the boot was on.

No, you were referring to body count and a method to try and tell us what "jews" wanted as a policy, as if they are a hive mind.
Also, it's anti-Semitic.

...while Israel is acting as an aggressor, it can hardly claim to be the subject of unjustified attacks.

Deliberate targetting of innocent women and children is 'justified' now? Tell us exactly when these attacks started to be justified in your eyes.

markodaly · 12-05-2019 12:36pm

Odhinn wrote: »

.....a classic example of using the cry of anti-semitism to silence critics.

The IHRA is clear on this.

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemitism

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Isreal has a right to exist. End of.

People calling it a criminal state by 'design', even though it was sanctioned by the UN General Assembly are engaging in anti-Semitic tropes.

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 12:38pm

markodaly wrote: »

No, you were referring to body count and a method to try and tell us what "jews" wanted as a policy,

as if they are a hive mind.
Also, it's anti-Semitic.

Where did I say this? Please quote/link to the post.

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 12:41pm

markodaly wrote: »

The IHRA is clear on this.

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemitism

Isreal has a right to exist. End of.

People calling it a criminal state by 'design', even though it was sanctioned by the UN General Assembly are engaging in anti-Semitic tropes.

He didn't call it a criminal state by design, he was referring to the activities of the state rendering it a criminal one. From the late 1960's its been engaged in the criminal endavour of colonising land outside its legally recognised borders. Are you saying the settlements/colonies are legal?

Mad_maxx · 12-05-2019 12:45pm

Israel is one of the few subjects I find myself siding with the left, I do find that Conservatives in Ireland tend to defend Israel without much analysis, the left support Palestinian rights and thus they must back Israel

markodaly · 12-05-2019 12:46pm

Odhinn wrote: »

He didn't call it a criminal state by design,

Yes he did.

Israel is a rogue criminal state by action and design.

Patrick2010 · 12-05-2019 12:48pm

Interesting watching Mick Wallace on RTÉ justifying the Bataclan massacre on the basis France were involved in the coalition against ISIS

biko · 12-05-2019 12:49pm

What has that to do with antisemitism?

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 12:52pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yes he did.

I presume he referred to its actions in the OT. We'll have to wait from him to clarify.

For five decades now its been engaged in the illegal endavour of colonising land outside its legally recognised borders. Are you saying the settlements/colonies are legal?

markodaly wrote: »

No, you were referring to body count and a method to try and tell us what "jews" wanted as a policy, as if they are a hive mind.
Also, it's anti-Semitic.

Where did I say this? Please quote/link to the post or have the decency to withdraw your claim.

markodaly · 12-05-2019 1:44pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I presume he referred to its actions in the OT. We'll have to wait from him to clarify.

Seeing as how he referred to the State of Israel and not the OT I think you presumed wrong.

Regardless, he used an Anti-Semitic trope.

Odhinn · 12-05-2019 1:48pm

markodaly wrote: »

Seeing as how he referred to the State of Israel and not the OT I think you presumed wrong.

Regardless, he used an Anti-Semitic trope.

We'll see when he clarifies. In the meantime you might answer as to some of your earlier remarks -

markodaly wrote:

No, you were referring to body count and a method to try and tell us what "jews" wanted as a policy, as if they are a hive mind.
Also, it's anti-Semitic.

Where did I say this? Please quote/link to the post.

Since the late 1960's Israel has been colonising lands outside its legally recognised borders against international law - are you trying to say this activity is legal?

Mad_maxx · 12-05-2019 2:23pm

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Interesting watching Mick Wallace on RTÉ justifying the Bataclan massacre on the basis France were involved in the coalition against ISIS

Why would that get brought up?

Is that an old interview?

Charles Ingles · 12-05-2019 5:17pm

They are after the great Ben Shapiro now

Igotadose · 12-05-2019 5:31pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

They are after the great Ben Shapiro now

Let me dumb this down for you. On the abortion thread, an anti-abortion activist mentioned Ben Shapiro's religion. I asked him why he brought that up. He then went on about stereotypes of Jews, for some reason that he's never clarified.

We're 'after' Ben Shapiro because he's a right-wing nutter, like you. Not because of his religion - it was you and the anti-abortion types that brought up that, for some reason. Why? Got some problem with Jewish people?

FWIW, there've been blatant anti-semitic postings on this thread. Sadly, no cards handed out.

Charles Ingles · 12-05-2019 5:36pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Let me dumb this down for you. On the abortion thread, an anti-abortion activist mentioned Ben Shapiro's religion. I asked him why he brought that up. He then went on about stereotypes of Jews, for some reason that he's never clarified.

We're 'after' Ben Shapiro because he's a right-wing nutter, like you. Not because of his religion - it was you and the anti-abortion types that brought up that, for some reason. Why? Got some problem with Jewish people?

FWIW, there've been blatant anti-semitic postings on this thread. Sadly, no cards handed out.

Im not right wing

batgoat · 12-05-2019 5:41pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Im not right wing

You've literally brought David Icke and International Banker conspiracy theories into a thread today so you mightn't be right wing. You just hold terrible and offensive views.

Danzy · 15-05-2019 11:48pm

Corbyn being hit with a 100k emails detailing anti semitism in the party, following on after a 15k page doc detailing anti Semitic abuse by party members.

Not since David Irving has a British anti Semite been so publicly demolished.

Naturally for both, it was a Jewish plot.

Billy86 · 19-05-2019 12:57am

riffmongous wrote: »

This was posted by Austrian far right leader HC Strache who is actually more or less Tánaiste at the moment, check out the cufflink patterns

Got to enjoy the irony of this now, as he has resigned the day after he was caught whoring himself and his nation out like a traitor to what he thought were Russian oligarchs.

Got to love the alt-right, a predictable bunch of lying, traitorous, unpatriotic cowards. Pure and simple.

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2019 1:16am

Billy86 wrote: »

Got to enjoy the irony of this now, as he has resigned the day after he was caught whoring himself and his nation out like a traitor to what he thought were Russian oligarchs.

Got to love the alt-right, a predictable bunch of lying, traitorous, unpatriotic cowards. Pure and simple.

Decades of reinventing themselves, finally getting into the sidelines of power with anti-immigration populism, always the same underneath

suicide_circus · 19-05-2019 5:41am

at least your man resigned straight away and snap elections have been called. i dont see any irish political party doing that under those circumstances.

batgoat · 19-05-2019 10:45am

suicide_circus wrote: »

at least your man resigned straight away and snap elections have been called. i dont see any irish political party doing that under those circumstances.

I'm pretty sure that you'd get resignations at the very minimum. In Austria, it's more validation of how dodgy the far right is over there.

Danzy · 19-05-2019 1:50pm

See David Irving, famous holocaust denier, has backed Corbyn.

Add in Nick Griffin and David Duke, previously declared admirers.

Mad to think a man like that can have a shot at power.

biko · 19-05-2019 1:56pm

I wonder what the end-game is for the left?

Let's say the left manages to convince US to stop backing Israel and somehow Israel lets itself be overrun by its neighbours (like they tried in 1948 Arab–Israeli War).

What happens then?
The Arabs lets the Jews move to USA?
Will there be a left-backed genocide of the Jews?
The land is given by UN to the Palestinians, and Jordan, Egypt etc does not claim the land?
The Palestinians razes all the Jewish building and rebuilds everything?
New Palestine embraces democracy, or becomes another hotbed of regional conflict?
Who will run the New Palestine, Hamas or Fatah or Hezbollah?

Odhinn · 19-05-2019 2:06pm

biko wrote: »

I wonder what the end-game is for the left?

Let's say the left manages to convince US to stop backing Israel and somehow Israel lets itself be overrun by its neighbours (like they tried in 1948 Arab–Israeli War).

What happens then?
The Arabs lets the Jews move to USA?
Will there be a left-backed genocide of the Jews?
The land is given by UN to the Palestinians, and Jordan, Egypt etc does not claim the land?
The Palestinians razes all the Jewish building and rebuilds everything?
New Palestine embraces democracy, or becomes another hotbed of regional conflict?
Who will run the New Palestine, Hamas or Fatah or Hezbollah?

I get the notion you're a glass half empty man.

Jordan has already ceded all claims to the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem.

In an ideal situation, a withdrawal from the West Bank, Golan and Arab East jerusalem is agreed, with some swapping of territory and population, leaving an Israeli state and a geographically contiguous Palestinian one.

19-05-2019 2:22pm

Odhinn wrote: »

In an ideal situation, a withdrawal from the West Bank, Golan and Arab East jerusalem is agreed, with some swapping of territory and population, leaving an Israeli state and a geographically contiguous Palestinian one.

No "right of return" for Arabs (or, more specifically, their descendants) to Israel proper? That would be a good start.

And why Golan? It was Syrian territory, never envisaged as part of a "palestinian state". Any return of the Golan would be to Syria, which prior to the 1967 war used it to launch periodic attacks against Israel. The ""heights" being the key - it was militarily strategic as it gave a commanding position overlooking northern Israel.

19-05-2019 2:33pm

biko wrote: »

I wonder what the end-game is for the left?

The superficially strange thing is that up until sometime in the seventies Israel was the darling of the left wing luvvies (ie, the middle class, virtue signalling lefties).They were portrayed as the valiant underdogs surrounded by overwhelming hostile enemies who were waiting their opportunity to "throw them into the sea". It would seem that Israel let the side by not succumbing to their fate.

riffmongous · 19-05-2019 3:14pm

1641 wrote: »

The superficially strange thing is that up until sometime in the seventies Israel was the darling of the left wing luvvies (ie, the middle class, virtue signalling lefties).They were portrayed as the valiant underdogs surrounded by overwhelming hostile enemies who were waiting their opportunity to "throw them into the sea". It would seem that Israel let the side by not succumbing to their fate.

Of course it had nothing to do with their terrible behaviour.. ^^ what an idiotic post

riffmongous · 19-05-2019 3:20pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Got to enjoy the irony of this now, as he has resigned the day after he was caught whoring himself and his nation out like a traitor to what he thought were Russian oligarchs.

Got to love the alt-right, a predictable bunch of lying, traitorous, unpatriotic cowards. Pure and simple.

They hate the EU but they'll do anything for Russians.

They arent alt-right though, they are much older and more established than that. Alt-right in Austria is tiny and more related to those Identitarian scum, whose leader 'was' also an anti-semite in his younger days

19-05-2019 4:10pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Of course it had nothing to do with their terrible behaviour.. ^^ what an idiotic post

Sure, plenty of their behaviour can be questioned, criticised or condemned. But plenty more of the behaviour of their surrounding enemies can be condemned. The Syrians have been sponsoring and conducting barbarities for decades and made little secret of their intentions towards the Israelis (or "the Jews"). So have many others. But for the middle class leftie types it is a tale of one side bad, the other side good.

I'm sure the Israeli Jews would prefer to be alive and to have reasonably secure borders than to be the beloved victims for the posh virtuousii to rightously hand-wring about - or the anti-semites to gloat about.

Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

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