Rio Ferdinand:from love cheat to "hero"?

Mr McBoatface · 29-03-2017 3:20pm

Haven't watched the documentary, hits too close to home.

Watching my six year well up when we dropped flowers to her mother's grave on Sunday just brought home how unfair life was to her, her sister and her mum.

I can't answer her questions why she's doesn't have a mother anymore and hate the distant look I see in her as she trys fill in the gaps to make sense of it all. Her sister 9 just doesn't want to talk about her mother, she remembers everything despite it being 3 years since my wife and I spoke with her in the hospice, a conversation I'll never forget. Her innocence died that day, she was 5 , turned 6 the day after the funeral . I'll never forget thier mother crying that night , begging to god for her children to remember her.

It doesn't leave you, those moments stick in your mind just below the surface , all it takes is a smell, a sound and in an instant I'm back in that room watching her crying.

I'm sure I wasn't the best husband either but in those moments I've never been closer to her or loved her more , it was the same for her. Everything else was BS.

I'm sure everyone in similar circumstances feel the same helplessness, love, grief and worry

professore · 29-03-2017 4:20pm

__Alex__ wrote: »

Actually, I've always noted that singles fathers get far more praise societally than single mothers.

That's true - maybe because they are a lot rarer than single mothers? Married fathers or mothers get very little praise.

Also - single fathers end up single generally through bereavement - so you really should be comparing them with widows, who get lots of praise societally. Ultimately the vast majority of single mothers had control over whether they became single mothers or not, whereas the vast majority of single fathers didn't. That's not some kind of preachy judgement, it's just facts.

Lots of single mothers do a great job raising their kids.

I don't believe in generalising everyone in together but you can make some general points without saying EVERYONE in a certain group is a certain way.

Romantic Rose · 29-03-2017 4:50pm

professore wrote: »

That's true - maybe because they are a lot rarer than single mothers? Married fathers or mothers get very little praise.

Also - single fathers end up single generally through bereavement - so you really should be comparing them with widows, who get lots of praise societally. Ultimately the vast majority of single mothers had control over whether they became single mothers or not, whereas the vast majority of single fathers didn't. That's not some kind of preachy judgement, it's just facts.

Lots of single mothers do a great job raising their kids.

I don't believe in generalising everyone in together but you can make some general points without saying EVERYONE in a certain group is a certain way.

From my experience though, if a relationship breaks down or if there is an unplanned pregnancy etc, it's generally the mother who will pick up the slack for the children and situation.That's

(not) really a choice, it's taking responsibility in life.

I know very few single mothers who went out and got pregnant on their own by choice. I have heard anecdotally from friends that teach in socially disadvantaged areas that young girls might be having children as a lifestyle choice for example.

I have taught very few children who have been raised by single fathers but the few who I have come across were exceptionally well looked after. One boy who I can think of off the top of my head brought lunches into school everyday that would put Gordon Ramsey to shame!

29-03-2017 4:53pm

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

I'm sure I wasn't the best husband either but in those moments I've never been closer to her or loved her more, it was the same for her. Everything else was BS.

And that's all there is to it. Sorry for your loss Mr McBoatface.

29-03-2017 4:59pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

There are days when getting recognition that a man can operate the washing machine by himself would be nice. For some reason its politically correct to portray men as stupid, and incapable. Whether its laundry or raising kids. We're all incapable apparently.

valoren · 29-03-2017 5:06pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why? Why does infidelity matter at all?

Because of reputation.

What was the purpose of this particular programme?
To show that losing their mother has an enormous impact on children, and their development? That's obvious. That losing your spouse is devastating? Again pretty much obvious.

Judging by the positive response to the programme, the cynical view could be that this is all a PR exercise. That Ferdinand is getting his 'name' out there. His USP is that he is a grieving widower. No doubt his marketability, his attractiveness, his media profile, to the advertising machine has grown considerably judging by the positive response to the programme.

Which brings it back to reputation and it's applicability.

If this was a well known ex-footballer who was 100% clean cut then there would be zero cynicism.

It's known he cheated on his wife. Not once or twice. He cheated repeatedly.
For me personally, to do that to your spouse displays an incredible self- centerdness. It's the mark of an arsehole for me. There are plenty of famous current and ex footballers who didn't act as such. If he treated his wife like that when she was alive, then to me it is no stretch for someone like that to manipulate the death of his wife to portray a false image of himself to gullible viewers. Your reputation in that case would precede itself.

So to now see Ferdinand emoting about his grief at losing his wife comes across for me as disingenuous. It makes me think he is, privately, perfectly content to exploit his own situation to advance his media career.

That's the cynical view, that this programme told us nothing new about base emotions we are already pretty much hard wired to empathise with.

To understand the power of the marketing machine and ex-professionals, I think of Tiger Woods in that regard. He was already a marketing dream when he was a young man winning everything with a million dollar smile. When he married (token Blonde trophy wife) and had children his PR image went stratospheric. Then it emerged that his image was nothing but a smokescreen. He was, to quote Moe Greene from The Godfather, "banging cocktail waitresses, two at a time". His 'family friendly' sponsors dropped his contracts. Now that he is effectively retired, his rhetoric is 'my kids are my world', 'everything is about my kids' etc etc. People don't buy into it. He's still effectively the arsehole who was shagging behind his wife's back while portraying himself in the media as a family man. It's all he can do now to prolong his media career, focus (read: exploit) his children to manipulate his image going forward.

neonsofa · 29-03-2017 6:16pm

professore wrote: »

That's true - maybe because they are a lot rarer than single mothers? Married fathers or mothers get very little praise.

Also - single fathers end up single generally through bereavement - so you really should be comparing them with widows, who get lots of praise societally. Ultimately the vast majority of single mothers had control over whether they became single mothers or not, whereas the vast majority of single fathers didn't. That's not some kind of preachy judgement, it's just facts.

Lots of single mothers do a great job raising their kids.

I don't believe in generalising everyone in together but you can make some general points without saying EVERYONE in a certain group is a certain way.

I'm guessing by single fathers you're referring to those single fathers with full custody and no involvement from the mother? Because I know plenty of single fathers and they aren't widows, but they share custody alright. Is it only those with full custody that you're talking about?

And as a single mother myself I am not sure what you mean by the vast majority of us had control over becoming a single mother. It's not exactly a lifestyle choice. Many a woman, myself included, has been left to raise a child alone and had no choice but to do so. I'm a bit confused as to where the control comes into it? Cause, only speaking for myself here, not all single mothers obviously, all control and freedom was taken from me when I became a single parent- ability to work, financial freedom etc are all affected and everything is dictated by being the sole carer and sole breadwinner and you actually have very little control generally over what you can do to get by as a result of those limitations suddenly put upon you.

CoolHandBandit · 29-03-2017 6:20pm

Bambi985 wrote: »

Seeing clips everywhere from his "Being Mum and Dad" documentary about life after the death of his wife that will be airing on BBC tonight.

While it looks like a very worthwhile programme that I'm sure will help lots of grieving young widowers everywhere, seeing so many people gush about how "inspiring" and "brave" he is on social media seems a bit much, given that he cheated on his wife with more than 10 women and absolutely humiliated her when she was alive.

Now not that he in any way deserved the horrible fate that awaited him, not for a second. And perhaps he's an absolutely fantastic father now and it is his biggest regret in life. But still. Something doesn't sit well with me about how he's now being glorified.

Thoughts?

Don't know much about him but seems to be a common theme with Manchester united players this cheating on the wife thing. Didn't Rooney shag a hooker or was it a granny whilst his wife was preggers?

29-03-2017 6:22pm

professore wrote: »

That's true - maybe because they are a lot rarer than single mothers? Married fathers or mothers get very little praise.

Also - single fathers end up single generally through bereavement - so you really should be comparing them with widows, who get lots of praise societally.

Most single mothers would also have a co-parent or absent parent who is a single father. The children weren't immaculate conceptions.

I'd imagine widows/widowers to be a small minority.

neonsofa · 29-03-2017 6:24pm

Candie wrote: »

Most single mothers would also have a co-parent or absent parent who is a single father. The children weren't immaculate conceptions.

I'd imagine widows/widowers to be a small minority.

I'm guessing he was referring to the fathers without a co- parent. Even still though I'd imagine there are a lot of fathers with sole custody that aren't widows.

ligerdub · 29-03-2017 6:48pm

76544567 wrote:

I have a mate who was/is a very famous professional athlete. You couldnt go out for a pint without heaps of women trying to shag him. He even shagged a few there and then in the toilets. Even ones who were out with boyfriends. They give him whatever weird signal women do to guys like that then off they go to the jacks. Then hes back telling us all about it, and the girl is back over with her boyfriend (sometimes husband, ive seen it) who has no idea what went on in the last 10 minutes in the toilets or even the car park.

I'm doing a mental "Guess Who?" On that one.

meeeeh · 29-03-2017 7:02pm

When I saw the title I thought it will be something about avoiding the drug tests (I missed the 'love' in the title.

I am always amazed how some people like to project their own morals, feelings and frustrations onto other people even though they really know nothing about other people's personal lives. I think the main conclusion from this thread should be that an awful lot of people should be embarrassed by what media (non)information they guzzle up and occupy themselves with.

mariaalice · 29-03-2017 7:27pm

To me it came across as the story of man who was given a smack in the head by reality and ended up a changed and more humble man because of it. What I always wonder is why does it often take a tragedy to bring about that change how come they didn't appreciate their wife before hand. its not an uncommon story.

professore · 29-03-2017 8:02pm

neonsofa wrote: »

I'm guessing by single fathers you're referring to those single fathers with full custody and no involvement from the mother? Because I know plenty of single fathers and they aren't widows, but they share custody alright. Is it only those with full custody that you're talking about?

Yes. The other type aren't particularly celebrated by society.

neonsofa wrote: »

And as a single mother myself I am not sure what you mean by the vast majority of us had control over becoming a single mother. It's not exactly a lifestyle choice. Many a woman, myself included, has been left to raise a child alone and had no choice but to do so. I'm a bit confused as to where the control comes into it? Cause, only speaking for myself here, not all single mothers obviously, all control and freedom was taken from me when I became a single parent- ability to work, financial freedom etc are all affected and everything is dictated by being the sole carer and sole breadwinner and you actually have very little control generally over what you can do to get by as a result of those limitations suddenly put upon you.

This is probably an unpopular viewpoint, and it's not coming from any religious angle, but just from thinking about it. This is After Hours after all.

All i mean is in most cases you choose to have sex and get pregnant as a result. Contraception and even abortion are choices even in ireland.

All the other stuff is consequences of that and happens afterwards. It's not like someone drops a baby at your house or your spouse dies and you are left alone with children.

Of course some are in marriages or committed relationships and are abandoned or divorced. Others are just from one night stands or casual relationships, often several children from several different men. At that point you really have to question that they are helpless victims of circumstances.

Also society should stigmatise these men, but instead they are celebrated.

neonsofa · 29-03-2017 8:10pm

professore wrote: »

Yes. The other type aren't particularly celebrated by society.

This is probably an unpopular viewpoint, and it's not coming from any religious angle, but just from thinking about it. This is After Hours after all.

All i mean is in most cases you choose to have sex and get pregnant as a result. Contraception and even abortion are choices even in ireland.

All the other stuff is consequences of that and happens afterwards. It's not like someone drops a baby at your house or your spouse dies and you are left alone with children.

Of course some are in marriages or committed relationships and are abandoned or divorced. Others are just from one night stands or casual relationships, often several children from several different men. At that point you really have to question that they are helpless victims of circumstances.

Also society should stigmatise these men, but instead they are celebrated.

Two people decided to have sex.

Two people knew the consequences. And two people are legally obliged to contribute.

And it's a bit late for contraception and abortion when the baby has arrived and then the father ups and leaves. Sometimes after years. After building a life together and having multiple children in some cases.

Many single parents did not enter into parenthood alone. Many do so with a supposedly supportive partner. The fact that you assume the majority are a result of an unplanned pregnancy, or multiple unplanned pregnancies, is disappointing tbh.

shane. · 29-03-2017 8:11pm

76544567 wrote: »

I have a mate who was/is a very famous professional athlete.
You couldnt go out for a pint without heaps of women trying to shag him.
He even shagged a few there and then in the toilets. Even ones who were out with boyfriends.
They give him whatever weird signal women do to guys like that then off they go to the jacks.
Then hes back telling us all about it, and the girl is back over with her boyfriend (sometimes husband, ive seen it) who has no idea what went on in the last 10 minutes in the toilets or even the car park.

And he was happily married at the time and still is.

I asked him one time what did his wife think of it.
Ill paraphrase what he told me.
"I love xxxx to bits. Shes my soul mate. But if any man had these amazing looking women throwing themselves at him he would do exactly the same. Ive just got used to it. I tried stopping, but I cant. Its been happening since i was in my teens. She knows it and we dont talk about it, but we are still very much in love."

He has settled down in the last few years but his still has his end away quite often.
And yes, they are still very much in love.

Anyway the point im trying to make is that its a whole weird world they live in. The likes of us normal folk, just cant understand it.
They just see that kind of stuff as normal, because it happens so easily.

He must fall asleep at the bar a lot

Zebra3 · 29-03-2017 9:52pm

What a bizarre thing to do.

Make a show about being a multi-millionaire single father and lump your kids into a bit of the spotlight as they struggle to cope wth this death of their mother who their father repeatedly betrayed.

wakka12 · 29-03-2017 9:58pm

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

What he did on his wife has nothing whatsoever to do with how he is raising his children.

If he lived under the same roof with their mother and cheated and lied to her while doing so, that creates an unhealthy atmosphere for children to live in. It will cause friction, and an unhappy place for children to grow up, and its all because of his ignorance and selfishness

It may be a bold statement but I don't think a cheater can be a good parent. Maybe they'll try their best with the kids at home, but when theyre out cheating, they don't have the best interests of their children in mind,they only have their own interests in mind, and so theyre not the best parent they can be if they cheat.

muddypaws · 29-03-2017 10:44pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

What a bizarre thing to do.

Make a show about being a multi-millionaire single father and lump your kids into a bit of the spotlight as they struggle to cope wth this death of their mother who their father repeatedly betrayed.

To be fair, something that really struck me in the programme was that they never showed the childrens' faces, it was always the back of their head, or side on.

Permabear · 29-03-2017 11:17pm

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Permabear · 29-03-2017 11:30pm

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melloa · 29-03-2017 11:37pm

youd swear liverpool players were so nnocent the way ur goin on

wingsof daun · 30-03-2017 1:05am

neonsofa wrote: »

Two people decided to have sex.

Two people knew the consequences. And two people are legally obliged to contribute.

And it's a bit late for contraception and abortion when the baby has arrived and then the father ups and leaves. Sometimes after years. After building a life together and having multiple children in some cases.

Many single parents did not enter into parenthood alone. Many do so with a supposedly supportive partner. The fact that you assume the majority are a result of an unplanned pregnancy, or multiple unplanned pregnancies, is disappointing tbh.

Yeah, the 2 ppl is the state and the state, in a lot of cases. Unwanted children draining our coffers.

WesternZulu · 30-03-2017 9:16am

melloa wrote: »

youd swear liverpool players were so nnocent the way ur goin on

Jesus, there aren't many soccer related threads on boards that don't descend into some sort of Man United vs Liverpool based drivel.

It's embarrassing!

Dravokivich · 30-03-2017 9:31am

Candie wrote: »

Because kids learn about how to be adults by watching the important people in their lives. Boys learn how to be a man with every single action of their fathers - including how it's acceptable to treat others, whether they emulate it or reject it, it matters.

They learn similarly from their mothers, but their father is the go-to role model for how to be a husband. Girls learn how to be women in much the same way. To say his infidelity has no impact on his kids is to ignore the fact that his kids will grow to see him as a complete person, probably someone to be admired, and will look at how he treated the mother they love and miss so much. How it affects them is up to them, and him, but you can't re-write history.

Exactly the same applies with all genders reversed etc., etc., etc.

There are single parents, mothers and fathers, going through exactly what he is while trying to juggle full-time jobs and who have none of the advantages that fame, money, and acclaim affords. They're probably more relatable examples of everyday heroism.

That said, I'm sure the guy feels his loss and does his best to parent his kids as best he can and is probably filled with regret, and I'd wish him nothing but the best for himself and his kids. It's a tough hand to get dealt, regardless of circumstances. However tough it is for him, it's much worse for those young kids and I hope they adjust well and grow up knowing that their dad did his very best for them, as I'm sure he's doing.

I still don't see why cheating is such a big deal, that any person indulging in it considered to be so vulgar. Nor why it should impact others perceptions of them as a person and their ability influence others positively.

Also why does the father have to be a husband and show their sons how to be one, or set their daughters expectations of what they will need from a husband?

valoren wrote: »

Because of reputation.

That still doesn't matter. Whether or not someone was sleeping around, does not determine if they should be expected to be incapable to influence others positively.

fergiesfolly · 30-03-2017 9:54am

Dravokivich wrote: »

I still don't see why cheating is such a big deal, that any person indulging in it considered to be so vulgar. Nor why it should impact others perceptions of them as a person and their ability influence others positively.

Also why does the father have to be a husband and show their sons how to be one, or set their daughters expectations of what they will need from a husband?

That still doesn't matter. Whether or not someone was sleeping around, does not determine if they should be expected to be incapable to influence others positively.

If you've made a commitment and vowed to keep it and then break that vow, it shows you to be untrustworthy . If you do it repeatedly, it shows you to lack respect for your partner and be of low moral standard.
Any parent(man or woman) should want to set a standard for their children that makes them as decent a human being as possible. And should also be able lead by example

I, like all here, have no idea of the relationship that Ferdinand had with his wife
It may have been an open marriage and she may well have been happy to carry on with other women as long as he came home to her.
I'd have no idea why she would and I would regard it as showing his wife scant respect, but every relationship has its own perameters.
But it really doesn't set a great example for his children

Dravokivich · 30-03-2017 10:09am

fergiesfolly wrote: »

If you've made a commitment and vowed to keep it and then break that vow, it shows you to be untrustworthy . If you do it repeatedly, it shows you to lack respect for your partner and be of low moral standard.
Any parent(man or woman) should want to set a standard for their children that makes them as decent a human being as possible. And should also be able lead by example

I, like all here, have no idea of the relationship that Ferdinand had with his wife
It may have been an open marriage and she may well have been happy to carry on with other women as long as he came home to her.
I'd have no idea why she would and I would regard it as showing his wife scant respect, but every relationship has its own perameters.
But it really doesn't set a great example for his children

No it doesn't. It just means something undisclosed between those 2 parties didn't work. Whether or not a vow is involved and disregarded does not make one untrustworthy. Otherwise all of us who made "vows" during our confirmation would be just as questionable of character.

I also still don't see how that can impact or should be expected to impact ones ability to be a parent, or positively influential for others, by other means.

murpho999 · 30-03-2017 10:18am

I saw the program last night and found it interesting and sad. I also liked how the kids’ identification was protected.

Ferdinand came across more concerned about how this was impacting his kids rather than himself.

Regarding how he cheated on his wife, which I am not condoning, but I don’t think he should be judged solely on that and it does not mean that he did not love his wife.

The lifestyle of a top level professional footballer is no ordinary one and I would not be surprised if many of them play away from home (See what I did there!) but would still regard themselves as having very solid marriages.

From my own experiences , I know when my own mother died, that my father was absolutely remorse with grief even though in my experience he wasn’t really the nicest or most loving husband to her when she was alive but he really suffered when she passed away and still misses her terribly after over 5 years.

So I’m sure Rio is genuinely suffering and his intentions of the show were good.

Of course people will just be cynical and black and white about it.

AnneFrank · 30-03-2017 10:24am

i really can't believe the ridiculous comments in here about rio's supposed countless affairs,
did you not see her parents on the show and how much they love and admire Rio.
But of course you all know his personal life better than they do and are free to judge a man
who has lost everything and is doing his best to be there for his kids.
You are all missing the point of this show, it's helping him grieve, and helping others in the same situation watching the show.
Have you not read Mr Mcboatfaces heart wrenching and brave post on the previous page.
this narrow minded view of the millennials generation is unreal, life is tough and full of mistakes

murpho999 · 30-03-2017 10:34am

fergiesfolly wrote: »

If you've made a commitment and vowed to keep it and then break that vow, it shows you to be untrustworthy . If you do it repeatedly, it shows you to lack respect for your partner and be of low moral standard.
Any parent(man or woman) should want to set a standard for their children that makes them as decent a human being as possible. And should also be able lead by example

I, like all here, have no idea of the relationship that Ferdinand had with his wife
It may have been an open marriage and she may well have been happy to carry on with other women as long as he came home to her.
I'd have no idea why she would and I would regard it as showing his wife scant respect, but every relationship has its own perameters.
But it really doesn't set a great example for his children

Why being so judgmental and why bring his children into it? I'm sure he wasn't being unfaithful in their presence.

Truth is no body knows what went on in their private life so why speculate?

Either way , it doesn't mean he's not suffering and grieving now.

Rio Ferdinand:from love cheat to "hero"?

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