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Deep Retrofit Pilot Programme

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13

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    #62
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    anyone heard anything from there proposal, send in the paperwork to my provider in April an still haven't heard back . Apparently SEAI have a backlog of proposals an dont have the resources to get thru them all, the October 31st date will now be pushed out.

    Still unsure whether to go with this. approx 50k for insulation / new PVC windows/ A2W heat pump, underfloor heating. Just seems like i could get alot more done for 50k. Alot builders i speak to say its a money racket and the prices are jacked up as government funding it.

    feedback welcome.


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    #63
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    anyone heard anything from there proposal, send in the paperwork to my provider in April an still haven't heard back . Apparently SEAI have a backlog of proposals an dont have the resources to get thru them all, the October 31st date will now be pushed out.

    Still unsure whether to go with this. approx 50k for insulation / new PVC windows/ A2W heat pump, underfloor heating. Just seems like i could get alot more done for 50k. Alot builders i speak to say its a money racket and the prices are jacked up as government funding it.

    feedback welcome.

    Hi, we finally found a provider with very decent costings. They submitted our application to the SEAI at the beginning of June, they contacted the SEAI for an update on the application and a rough timeline of when we could expect a decision 2 wks ago
    . As you already mentioned they said they are inundated with applications are are just trying to get through them all. My service provider is ringing back for a further update this Friday, if we hear anything ill let you know. Do you know what date your provider actually sent in ur application? I mean you may have sent them your paperwork in April, but the provider would have been submitting a batch of houses together in 1 application it may have been a couple of weeks after that that they actually sent everything to the SEAI? Also my provider told us that if a proposed project is under €90,000 (exclusive of grant) those projects should hear back from SEAI in 1 month but if it's over 90k it takes the full 2 months.

    In regards to actually going for the scheme it is a tough one. So much effort and time goes into just getting a provider and then actually getting on the scheme, it has made the process very disheartening. I was ready to give up to be honest but went one more time, found our current provider, got their costings back and then set about checking out the amounts, got independent quotes for some of the big ticket items like windows and EWI and as a result am very happy with the proposed project costs, when you take "up to" 50% off that it became a no brainer for us but it has been a long and exasperating process just to get to this point.


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    #64
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    Buddy83 wrote: »
    Hi, we finally found a provider with very decent costings. They submitted our application to the SEAI at the beginning of June, they contacted the SEAI for an update on the application and a rough timeline of when we could expect a decision 2 wks ago
    . As you already mentioned they said they are inundated with applications are are just trying to get through them all. My service provider is ringing back for a further update this Friday, if we hear anything ill let you know. Do you know what date your provider actually sent in ur application? I mean you may have sent them your paperwork in April, but the provider would have been submitting a batch of houses together in 1 application it may have been a couple of weeks after that that they actually sent everything to the SEAI? Also my provider told us that if a proposed project is under €90,000 (exclusive of grant) those projects should hear back from SEAI in 1 month but if it's over 90k it takes the full 2 months.

    In regards to actually going for the scheme it is a tough one. So much effort and time goes into just getting a provider and then actually getting on the scheme, it has made the process very disheartening. I was ready to give up to be honest but went one more time, found our current provider, got their costings back and then set about checking out the amounts, got independent quotes for some of the big ticket items like windows and EWI and as a result am very happy with the proposed project costs, when you take "up to" 50% off that it became a no brainer for us but it has been a long and exasperating process just to get to this point.

    we submitted back to our provider on 5th April as we were the 5th house on that batch so it moved pretty quick but now and there still awaiting the SEAI to update them. i just wanna know if im guaranteed to get it so i will hold off on other builders willing to start. my works came in at 46k for me, which is 92k with 50% - IF - i get 50% grant. heading into its 4th month now.


    Im hoping im close to a decision, but i then need to sit down with the builder an his QS to review final costings, but his orignaly costs said 46k is what i pay but when i added up all costs of each major works - it didnt add up, maybe a typo.

    so once u get confirmation u will begin straight away? can builder start once u hear? are u doign any other work on site - extension etc?


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    #65
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    I think when works actually start completely depends on your provider/builder. In our case works should hopefully start 3-4 weeks after SEAI send letter of offer to us. And per the regs of the grant scheme all works for deep retro fit must be completed in 3 months (altho i gather contracters can apply for an extension in certain circumstances) We are getting a few walls knocked internally, a few new floors and a few walls replastered all at a 100% cost to us.


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    #66
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    Buddy83 wrote: »
    I think when works actually start completely depends on your provider/builder. In our case works should hopefully start 3-4 weeks after SEAI send letter of offer to us. And per the regs of the grant scheme all works for deep retro fit must be completed in 3 months (altho i gather contracters can apply for an extension in certain circumstances) We are getting a few walls knocked internally, a few new floors and a few walls replastered all at a 100% cost to us.

    I am also hoping to knock a few walls etc as the extension thats there isnt great an needs to be redone. which is a cost on us. so im not sure if i will run with the retrofit due to the extension needing to be rebuilt which is a hefty cost in itself. i need to find out if the costs to renovate existing an the extension will be significant to just doing the retrofit. The waiting around is tough with no guarantee to get the grant.


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    #67
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    I am also hoping to knock a few walls etc as the extension thats there isnt great an needs to be redone. which is a cost on us. so im not sure if i will run with the retrofit due to the extension needing to be rebuilt which is a hefty cost in itself. i need to find out if the costs to renovate existing an the extension will be significant to just doing the retrofit. The waiting around is tough with no guarantee to get the grant.

    I may be reading your messages wrong but, do u not already know the cost for the total project? I mean you know the cost for the deep retro fit aspect as your application is gone in, I'm assuming same contractor is going to complete your extra works ( redoing extension) so have they not given you a price for that aspect? So you'd know prior to applying for the grant if you can afford the whole thing? If you haven't gotten a price off them I dont see any reason for you to have to wait til after the grant . U could ask them to come out and quote u for the extra work now?


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    #68
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    Things aren't looking certain for the scheme after 2019, I'm thinking potentially my application mite just miss out on this year's funding.

    I have heard that SEAI have stated that it is a pilot scheme and will cease in 2019, with no indication what will be available in terms of funding for 2020.

    No indication either on if or when SEAI will announce what form the grant will take next year.

    In the recent climate action plan publication it only makes reference to increase BER to B2 and finance for retrofit. It outlines for proposal in Q3 of 2020 for a plan to be published, which i guess would suggest that there may not be an alternative scheme put in place until late 2020 or early 2021?

    I'm off to look at the Better Energy Home Grant.


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    #69
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Hard to know when an alternative will come along but the Govt was making noises a few weeks back about a total revamp along the lines of allowing householders cheap loans that would be spread across their energy bills over 10 or 15 years. Would likely take at least a year for them to set it up.


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    #70
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    Just had an update from my provider, still awaiting news from SEAI and if the government can fund it if it goes into 2020. another 2 weeks apparently. 6 months now im awaiting.

    if i dont run with the grant, the other 4 houses will also lose out. which is crazy since im waiting around since march

    im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

    anyone else heard anything?


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    #71
    shadysheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭shadysheeps


    Buddy83 wrote: »
    Things aren't looking certain for the scheme after 2019, I'm thinking potentially my application mite just miss out on this year's funding.

    I have heard that SEAI have stated that it is a pilot scheme and will cease in 2019, with no indication what will be available in terms of funding for 2020.

    No indication either on if or when SEAI will announce what form the grant will take next year.

    There's never been any mention of a 2020 programme so I reckon this year will be the last as they've likely got the info they wanted. It'd be too expensive for them to continue to fund.

    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

    anyone else heard anything?

    We're doing a bigger renovation also. I'm expecting it to be a bit messy having both the service provider and builder trying to work together, biggest downfall IMO. Our cost is coming in over 60k which we consider good - especially when you consider windows are roughly 20k, EWI roughly 20k, heating roughly 15k (incl new cylinder, etc). For us we're also thinking long-term if we were ever to sell the house it would be a great selling point to have an A rated house. The builder that's doing our non-energy work reckons we're getting great value for the work being done - and he's a mate who does all the regular grants so I trust his judgement.


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    #72
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    Just had an update from my provider, still awaiting news from SEAI and if the government can fund it if it goes into 2020. another 2 weeks apparently. 6 months now im awaiting.

    if i dont run with the grant, the other 4 houses will also lose out. which is crazy since im waiting around since march

    im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

    anyone else heard anything?

    Heard anything back from SEAI? We got a letter in the post from our provider which also had the most recent update email they had from SEAI, basically there may or may not be additional funding for 2019, tell all applicants to hand tight and adopt a wait and see approach.....


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    #73
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    Just had an update from my provider, still awaiting news from SEAI and if the government can fund it if it goes into 2020. another 2 weeks apparently. 6 months now im awaiting.

    if i dont run with the grant, the other 4 houses will also lose out. which is crazy since im waiting around since march

    im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

    anyone else heard anything?

    Heard anything back from SEAI? We got a letter in the post from our provider which also had the most recent update email they had from SEAI, basically there may or may not be additional funding for 2019, tell all applicants to hand tight and adopt a wait and see approach.....


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    #74
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    just got word there that they are not funding any more 2019 grants. what a waste of time. 6 months waiting an money invested for engineer an another for air test.

    anyone know if we get this money back?


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    #75
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    just got word there that they are not funding any more 2019 grants. what a waste of time. 6 months waiting an money invested for engineer an another for air test.

    anyone know if we get this money back?

    So frustrating, all this time trying to get on the scheme and getting an application in by deadline date only to be told no more funding. I'd guess they would be no hope at all of getting any cash back for BER or Air tightness tests done. So disappointing. Thanks for the update.


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    #76
    shadysheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭shadysheeps


    This is ridiculous. We cannot and should not let this happen.

    There's an article in the journal


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    #77
    taytobreath
    Registered Users Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭taytobreath


    Seems to be a right fcuk up, the CEO of seai has resigned too. How could they not know that funds were running out well in advance of this last minute notice.


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    #78
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Bit of a mess, those invested in the process have been let down.

    Only silver lining is that there will be a new scheme on the way to replace it. Will probably take at least a year to implement though.


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    #79
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    The topic was discussed just there on Drive Time. They said the 2017 and 2018 schemes retrofitted 120 houses but this year they had over 300 applications and not enough funding for them all.

    It seems that some people applied in Feb/March and were given assurances by their service provider that their house was suitable and that they qualified. SEAI made encouraging noises too but the rule is you are not permitted to start the work until you have an offical grant letter in hand. Problem with that was the T&Cs also said the works and a new BER must be complete by October 15th, if it wasnt then the grant wouldnt be paid. So some people went ahead beginning the work so they would have enough time to meet the deadline. But they didnt have grant approval in hand and one person on the radio has spent €40k to date and now the plug has been pulled. Another man spent 4 weeks stripping our his house back to a shell and now he has no grant and the house is inhabitable.

    Aside from the above Alan Kelly TD was saying the department would have known they didnt have the funding for 300+ houses back in March but that they were still encouraging applications as late as July 10th where the CEO of SEAI told an Oireactas committee that the scheme was still open and funded. Kelly accused the SEAI hiding the truth for several months to get past the local elections.

    Although this was just a pilot program it has turned into a bit of a mess with the T&Cs coercing people to start the work while the SEAI were dragging their feet on making a decision. Decisions were supposed to be 4-6 weeks but some were waiting 3-4 months for approval.

    The scheme was only for a few hundred houses in total and its ended like this. It doesnt bode well for the governments stated plans to retrofit 500,000 houses by 2030, that sounds like pie in the sky stuff given whats just happened.


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    #80
    Wartburg
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Wartburg


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    The topic was discussed just there on Drive Time. They said the 2017 and 2018 schemes retrofitted 120 houses but this year they had over 300 applications and not enough funding for them all.

    This scheme was the biggest nonsense from the beginning. How can you offer up to 50% grant in a serious way??? The government had secured €5,000,000 for this year to run the scheme. If they had over 300 applications for the scheme this year, it means every house could have got a grant of around €15,000 in theory. That´s still a ridiculous amount of tax payers money for every single retrofit project, especially if you look at the results.
    Would love to see a research in 5 years time about the performance of the participating buildings on that scheme, or might in 10 years time when all the external units of the A2W are wrecked.


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    #81
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    either way theirs alot of us out of pocket when we were told hang in there that the money is there etc. such spoof from service providers and SEAI.

    never once were we told theirs a risk here - that the money is there its just a case of allocating to each project.

    Biggest scam ive seen - be it from SEAI or government - there all accountable.


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    #82
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    UpTipp123 wrote: »
    either way theirs alot of us out of pocket when we were told hang in there that the money is there etc. such spoof from service providers and SEAI.

    never once were we told theirs a risk here - that the money is there its just a case of allocating to each project.

    Biggest scam ive seen - be it from SEAI or government - there all accountable.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0819/1069653-seai-grant/

    For any of the 302 applications submitted prior to the July deadline, there appears to be some hope today!


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    #83
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah that is good news for those who applied but hadnt yet received the grant offer. Looks like the govt. were just trying to see what they could get away with and after the backlash decided to pony up. Bit of an own goal by Richard Bruton, all of this could have been avoided to begin with.


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    #84
    Interested Bystander
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Interested Bystander


    Completely agree with you Muahahaha, I wouldn't be surprised either if the rate of application rejection takes a sharp rise


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    #85
    Interested Bystander
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Interested Bystander


    Next question is will they carry over al the approved applications to 2020 or will they try to encourage the projects to be finished by end of 2019. As one of the applicants, i'm not sure which I would prefer...


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    #86
    Buddy83
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Buddy83


    Interested Bystander wrote: »
    Completely agree with you Muahahaha, I wouldn't be surprised either if the rate of application rejection takes a sharp rise

    I'm hoping against what you mention in terms of application rejection Interested Bystander. Would I be right in saying that the basic criteria is a BER of C3 or worse, built prior to 2006 and 5 air changes per hour or less for the air heat pump to be viable? My service provider said we ticked all the boxes so theoretically just waiting to get the letter from SEAI. What I am worried about though is that the level of funding offered will take a nose dive. Again our service provider said since the launch of the scheme they have never seen an application get less that 40% with a large majority getting over 45%. Who knows what way they will fund the outstanding 302 applicants.


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    #87
    Interested Bystander
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Interested Bystander


    Buddy83 wrote: »
    I'm hoping against what you mention in terms of application rejection Interested Bystander. Would I be right in saying that the basic criteria is a BER of C3 or worse, built prior to 2006 and 5 air changes per hour or less for the air heat pump to be viable? My service provider said we ticked all the boxes so theoretically just waiting to get the letter from SEAI. What I am worried about though is that the level of funding offered will take a nose dive. Again our service provider said since the launch of the scheme they have never seen an application get less that 40% with a large majority getting over 45%. Who knows what way they will fund the outstanding 302 applicants.

    The levels of funding are uniform from the SEAI. According to a few of the contractors with access to the scheme that I've spoken to, if you have an application approved they usually fund up to 50% of the invoiced cost submitted including VAT if they had approved the full budget outlined by your contractor in your application. The final amount funded may come in closer to 45% overall but that variable is down to how much you are charged by your BER assessor and by your contractor for testing, compiling and submitting reports and the application etc. In other words their admin fees.
    You should check as to what is covered as an eligible cost using the link below.

    Re eligibility, all that detail is on the SEAI website here

    But houses are only eligible for the scheme if the uplift in energy efficiency is >150kWh/m²/yr so any applicants with a BER of C3 would have to attain a new BER of A2 to be funded, (all other applicants need to attain a BER of A3)
    And my understanding of the installation of air to water heat pumps is that you need a number of factors for it to work.
    Air permeability in the gaff must be 5m³/h/m² @50 pa or lower with a heat loss factor of <2.0 W/m²K in the BER.
    And your BER assessor won't entertain any installation job without the use of low temp rads running at a flow temp of anything higher than 45°C unless you are adding something else like PV panels to offset the higher use of energy.


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    #88
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Interested Bystander wrote: »
    Next question is will they carry over al the approved applications to 2020 or will they try to encourage the projects to be finished by end of 2019. As one of the applicants, i'm not sure which I would prefer...

    From what Richard Bruton said it seems there are allowing applicants to push out their finish date beyond October 2019 and into 2020. The deadline itself seemed to be part of the problem as applicants were then placed in a rush to finish all works by October and have a BER Cert in hand to finally get the grant. Thus some started work before grant approval came through because if they didnt they wouldnt be able to make the October deadline and then the grant wouldnt be paid anyway.

    Its probably going to be late 2020 at the earliest before there is a new scheme in place. They'll definitely need that time to fine tune it and iron out the problems seen above.


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    #89
    UpTipp123
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UpTipp123


    Just got and email there saying itll be end of October/start November before the letters are issued - this is some piss take.

    Glad i have moved on without this ****e process. what a waste of waiting around for 6 months


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    #90
    CarPark2
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭CarPark2


    I don’t see anything about this in budget coverage today.
    All I can find online is a pilot scheme focused on the midlands for 2020.
    So is it a case that the only funding support for deep retrofit in 2020 will be for people in the midlands?


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    #91
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    The scheme was a pilot program for just a few hundred participants and is now closed. The Dept of the Environment are working on a new scheme for a larger audience but it will likely be the end of 2020 before we hear any details. I thought I heard something about Paschal o'Donohue allocating €300m towards it yesterday.

    Aside from the deep retrofit scheme the normal grants for insulation, heat pumps, etc are still available.


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