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Rent allowance in different areas, why is it so low ?

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    #32
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    MouseTail wrote: »
    What do YOU suggest Handlemaster if you were in charge of the policy levers?
    Forget about emotive arguments such as you are the one telling the kid, you are the one announcing this new policy to the nation.

    I think your forgetting its people your talking about if you were to talk directly to them and not from behind a keyboard it would be a different story. Im simply pointing out what rent allowance that is available in a particular area is not sufficient. Posters saying move to cavan its cheaper etc ignores the fact rent allowance falls correspondingly. Examples I have put forward were as a means to show not everyone fits into the neat box of wont work . There are predetermined notions by posters of who gets rental allowance which needs to be challenged. There are people who have lost jobs, falllen sick, handicaped ,incapacitated etc. We need not to fall into the neat opinion that all can work but dont want to.


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    #33
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    handlemaster wrote: »
    You think a two bed is good enough for two adults and three kids. It clearly isnt. A three bed would be needed. How does your search look like for three beds ?

    If they want 3 bedroom, they should be earning enough to afford it.
    If they want to depend on social welfare money to pay for their rent they should be happy enough they are getting it and squeeze into 1 bedroom house or appartment.


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    #34
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    handlemaster wrote: »
    I think your forgetting its people your talking about if you were to talk directly to them and not from behind a keyboard it would be a different story. Im simply pointing out what rent allowance that is available in a particular area is not sufficient. Posters saying move to cavan its cheaper etc ignores the fact rent allowance falls correspondingly. Examples I have put forward were as a means to show not everyone fits into the neat box of wont work . There are predetermined notions by posters of who gets rental allowance which needs to be challenged. There are people who have lost jobs, falllen sick, handicaped ,incapacitated etc. We need not to fall into the neat opinion that all can work but dont want to.

    You have failed to put forward your suggestion of what should be done. Of course it affects real people, all policy does. I asked the question of you so you would have a think about the possible repercussions of your suggestion, and move beyond the simplistic. For example if you want to increase RA levels, the money to do that must come from somewhere, either an increase on taxes or a diversion of funds from elsewhere. It will also lead to increased rents in an existing landscape of severe housing shortages and rents galloping beyond inflation. The only people who will benefit from this are Landlords, not the people you seek to assist. Increasing RA will not make housing more affordable to those at the bottom of the housing rung, rather it will make housing less affordable for everyone.


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    #35
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    mcko wrote: »
    Easy answer, if you cannot afford 3 kids then don't have them, I have 2 that is all my wife and I could afford, then maybe get a job and pay your own way like I have had to do since I left school in the 1980s, welfare is suposed to be a stop gap not a way of life.
    It is all what I am entiltled to, I know 2 couples one is married with a child and they rent for €850 per month both working, her sister is living with her boyfriend and the father of her child, they both work but she gets rent allowance, who is the fool here.
    You need to cut your cloth to your measure I would love a big house with a pool but guess what I can't afford it, will the tax payer get me one.
    Yes, that is the easy answer in certain cases. But what about the numerous cases of a couple or single parent who could afford 3 kids at time of conception & now for one reason or another (e.g. loss of employment/illness/disability/death of one parent) find themselves in need of state aid in the form of rent supplement? It's not as if they can give the kids back or throw them away!


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    #36
    mcko
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭mcko


    Those people would be a small minority, it is people who never paid in expect the most out I know people who have never worked in their 40s and if I lose my job tomorrow all I will get is 9 months on the dole, will they pay my mortage, don't think so but have 3 kids and you get a free house med card child benifit and got knows what else.
    I pay almost €600 a week in tax and do you know what I get for that, sweet FA, must pay for doctors must pay for school books, must pay for RA and SW, if I was younger I would get out of here no country for working men and women only the rich and those on SW are ok.


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    #37
    freelancerTax
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭freelancerTax


    why not let the person pick any house they want and just kick whoevers in it out of it?

    your ideas of fairness seem far from reality handlemaster - raising RA will only serve to raise rents for everyone including those on RA - and you will be left with a endless cycle of rasing RA - this is not a real world solution

    why cant the person move from their desired "postcode" ? people who work cant always live where they desire, why should those who do not work get to?


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    #38
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    handlemaster wrote: »
    I think your forgetting its people your talking about if you were to talk directly to them and not from behind a keyboard it would be a different story. Im simply pointing out what rent allowance that is available in a particular area is not sufficient. Posters saying move to cavan its cheaper etc ignores the fact rent allowance falls correspondingly. Examples I have put forward were as a means to show not everyone fits into the neat box of wont work . There are predetermined notions by posters of who gets rental allowance which needs to be challenged. There are people who have lost jobs, falllen sick, handicaped ,incapacitated etc. We need not to fall into the neat opinion that all can work but dont want to.

    The poster didn't ignore anything,if you actually read the post that was the income without rent allowance - I.e they can already afford it. With RA they would have even more disposable income.


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    #39
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    interesting letter in the indo today


    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/mission-impossible-of-a-single-mum-one-irish-womans-struggle-to-find-a-place-to-live-31193714.html


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    #40
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    handlemaster wrote: »
    interesting letter in the indo today


    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/mission-impossible-of-a-single-mum-one-irish-womans-struggle-to-find-a-place-to-live-31193714.html

    That's a totally different argument, she cannot find accommodation due to LL perceptions, not because the levels are too low.


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    #41
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    The Zec wrote: »
    What payment is she on? I would assume she is getting at least €188/week in some kind of social welfare payment + increase of €29.80 (x3) for each dependent child. Also childrens allowance for 3 children is €405/month. That works out at:

    €1607.06 / month in total government payments.

    Here is a beautiful 4 bedroom home in Ballyjamesduff, Co. Cavan for €695 / month, leaving her €912 / month remaining for bills, groceries, etc.

    http:// www . daft . ie/lettings/oaklands-ballyjamesduff-cavan/1547561/

    And no rent allowance involved. It's not in Dublin 15, but surely that's better than having children in a homeless shelter beside drug addicts and drunks? Or is staying in the homeless shelter a way of throwing her toys out of the pram until social welfare give in to her demands?

    Btw if I am wrong about any of those figures by all means please correct me and I will offer an alternative practical solution based on accurate figures.

    this, this is exactly the solution to the problem.


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    #42
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    handlemaster wrote: »
    So rent levels are unrealistically low . Market rate is higher. It doesnt matter what you think will happen . At present a family of three kids and one or two parents for fingal is capped at 950. It is not possible to find accomadation at this level. So to summerise the house is on fire and your saying the solution is to change the regulation.

    Market rate is market rate. The government is not your mother, so you are at all times free to pay the going market rate to live in the area you want. I think my transport budget per year is low as it will not buy me a BMW, that is life. You are being encouraged to move to cheaper areas because there is not an unlimited pool of money. It is plenty of money, outside of high demand areas.


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    #43
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,725 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    CiniO wrote: »
    If they want to depend on social welfare money to pay for their rent they should be happy enough they are getting it and squeeze into 1 bedroom house or appartment.


    No can do under current rules: RA simply won't be approved if the house would be overcrowded.


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    #44
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    No can do under current rules: RA simply won't be approved if the house would be overcrowded.

    very true, plenty of supply outside of dublin with larger properties though. I understand the requirement for access to dublin for job interviews etc.. but Id be strongly in favour of RA and social housing being discontinued for All of dublin city , south and west county dublin aside from tenants for whom a 1 bed apartment would suit. larger properties are only going up in value and the situation is unmaintainable and the taxpayer should not be paying to have people live in areas that private tenants struggle to afford. considering free travel passes etc.. there should be no problem telling people that they have to go to a commuter town.


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    #45
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    very true, plenty of supply outside of dublin with larger properties though. I understand the requirement for access to dublin for job interviews etc.. but Id be strongly in favour of RA and social housing being discontinued for All of dublin city , south and west county dublin aside from tenants for whom a 1 bed apartment would suit. larger properties are only going up in value and the situation is unmaintainable and the taxpayer should not be paying to have people live in areas that private tenants struggle to afford. considering free travel passes etc.. there should be no problem telling people that they have to go to a commuter town.
    The problem/flaw there is that people receiving jobseekers payments don't get a free travel pass. For the most part the only people under 66 that do are blind/disabled/long term ill/carers. Doing what you suggest would virtually guarantee that very few people would ever come off the live register & that commuter towns would turn into disadvantaged areas before very long.


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    #46
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Cushie Butterfield wrote: »
    The problem/flaw there is that people receiving jobseekers payments don't get a free travel pass. For the most part the only people under 66 that do are blind/disabled/long term ill/carers. Doing what you suggest would virtually guarantee that very few people would ever come off the live register & that commuter towns would turn into disadvantaged areas before very long.

    places with a lot of people on welfare go like that anyway, by your logic theres no explaining talbot street, east wall , dolphins barn, fatima mansions etc…

    if we took all the land currently used for social / council housing in D1/D2/D8 and sold it to private investors, using the money to build social housing in some commuter towns and further a field we'd still benefit financially.


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