Rent allowance in different areas, why is it so low ?

handlemaster · 01-05-2015 5:32pm #1

I was having a look at the rent allowance maximum levels for the different areas. In particular I know dublin 15 id say you would do well to get a 1 bed apartment there for 900 euro. yet the maximum rent allowance setting is 950 for a parent with three kids. There is no way anyone can get a three bed semi for than anywhere in Dublin 15. How do welfare honestly expect people to find accommodation with these 's maximum levels. I say this putting aside the fact most people pay privately. If welfare decide someone needs assistance they should be realistic.

Gatling · 01-05-2015 5:40pm

handlemaster wrote: »

I was having a look at the rent allowance maximum levels for the different areas. In particular I know dublin 15 id say you would do well to get a 1 bed apartment there for 900 euro. yet the maximum rent allowance setting is 950 for a parent with three kids. There is no way anyone can get a three bed semi for than anywhere in Dublin 15. How do welfare honestly expect people to find accommodation with these 's maximum levels. I say this putting aside the fact most people pay privately. If welfare decide someone needs assistance they should be realistic.

You don't get 950 though .
It's 950 minus a minimum contribution of €30 .
pw from the receipent.
The maximum is actually €830.

You have to remember rent allowance /rent supplement was only ever supposed to be a short term payment not the 10+years some people are getting for .
Personal responsibility comes into it too most end up getting it after having a baby but several years later it's now a family of 3/4 who's housing needs constantly changes

Eric Cartman · 01-05-2015 7:13pm

handlemaster wrote: »

I was having a look at the rent allowance maximum levels for the different areas. In particular I know dublin 15 id say you would do well to get a 1 bed apartment there for 900 euro. yet the maximum rent allowance setting is 950 for a parent with three kids. There is no way anyone can get a three bed semi for than anywhere in Dublin 15. How do welfare honestly expect people to find accommodation with these 's maximum levels. I say this putting aside the fact most people pay privately. If welfare decide someone needs assistance they should be realistic.

the rent allowance rates set an artificial floor for rents in an area. generally a well kept house in a moderate to good area will always be above RA rates, only desperate landlords or borderline slum property tends to come in under the amount . (there are exceptions to this of course , but if you want to find an RA priced property in an area, start looking in estates that would be considered 'rough' or 'undesirable'

handlemaster · 02-05-2015 10:53am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the rent allowance rates set an artificial floor for rents in an area. generally a well kept house in a moderate to good area will always be above RA rates, only desperate landlords or borderline slum property tends to come in under the amount . (there are exceptions to this of course , but if you want to find an RA priced property in an area, start looking in estates that would be considered 'rough' or 'undesirable'

So levels set are unrealistic

Xterminator · 02-05-2015 11:07am

handlemaster wrote: »

So levels set are unrealistic

did you read the replies, or have you already made up your mind?

if the gvmt decided to raise the cap to say 1500 p/mth in the current situation then landlords would raise their rents in the renting sector, even those renting to private tenants. The only winner would be the landlords.

the issue here is supply and demand in a free market & the tenants who qualify for rent allowance are caught in this trap.

But the state raising rent allowance is not a solution. the solution is to balance supply and demand; or introduce rent controls.

X

handlemaster · 02-05-2015 11:22am

Xterminator wrote: »

did you read the replies, or have you already made up your mind?

if the gvmt decided to raise the cap to say 1500 p/mth in the current situation then landlords would raise their rents in the renting sector, even those renting to private tenants. The only winner would be the landlords.

the issue here is supply and demand in a free market & the tenants who qualify for rent allowance are caught in this trap.

But the state raising rent allowance is not a solution. the solution is to balance supply and demand; or introduce rent controls.

X

So rent levels are unrealistically low . Market rate is higher. It doesnt matter what you think will happen . At present a family of three kids and one or two parents for fingal is capped at 950. It is not possible to find accomadation at this level. So to summerise the house is on fire and your saying the solution is to change the regulation.

Pawwed Rig · 03-05-2015 1:54pm

handlemaster wrote: »

So rent levels are unrealistically low . Market rate is higher. It doesnt matter what you think will happen . At present a family of three kids and one or two parents for fingal is capped at 950. It is not possible to find accomadation at this level. So to summerise the house is on fire and your saying the solution is to change the regulation.

There are places available in Balbriggan at this price (assuming you want to stay in Fingal). If you look in oither areas you will find cheaper (but rent allowance rates may be lower.
Unfortunately we don't get to choose where we live when budget is limited. For example I would love to live on Aylesbury Road but unfortunately cannot afford it.
As another poster said look for the undesireable rough areas as that is where rent allowance is being pitched. It is (and should be) at the very bottom of the market. If you want a nice house in a nice decent location then you are correct in that rent allowance will not be adequate (in Dublin).

handlemaster · 03-05-2015 1:59pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There are places available in Balbriggan at this price (assuming you want to stay in Fingal). If you look in oither areas you will find cheaper (but rent allowance rates may be lower.
Unfortunately we don't get to choose where we live when budget is limited. For example I would love to live on Aylesbury Road but unfortunately cannot afford it.
As another poster said look for the undesireable rough areas as that is where rent allowance is being pitched. It is (and should be) at the very bottom of the market. If you want a nice house in a nice decent location then you are correct in that rent allowance will not be adequate (in Dublin).

I dont have an issue with what you say but welfare should offer what is applicaple for the area or just say for this area we cannot offer assistance .

Pawwed Rig · 03-05-2015 2:03pm

But they do. You say Fingal is €950 and I have found 2 bed houses in Balbriggan (in Fingal) for €900-950. You may not find something in the exact post code you want but then who among us can whether on rent allowance or not.

handlemaster · 03-05-2015 5:37pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

But they do. You say Fingal is €950 and I have found 2 bed houses in Balbriggan (in Fingal) for €900-950. You may not find something in the exact post code you want but then who among us can whether on rent allowance or not.

You think a two bed is good enough for two adults and three kids. It clearly isnt. A three bed would be needed. How does your search look like for three beds ?

howamidifferent · 03-05-2015 5:43pm

handlemaster wrote:

You think a two bed is good enough for two adults and three kids. It clearly isnt. A three bed would be needed. How does your search look like for three beds ?

My parents raised 11 kids in a two bedroomed house. We got by. You need to cut your cloth to your measure.

syklops · 03-05-2015 5:52pm

handlemaster wrote: »

You think a two bed is good enough for two adults and three kids. It clearly isnt. A three bed would be needed. How does your search look like for three beds ?

A three bed is required? So that each little darling can have their own room, while being in receipt of Rent Allowance?

As has been said, RA is meant to be a stop gap, a temporary measure, not a lifestyle.

Xterminator · 03-05-2015 5:53pm

handlemaster wrote: »

You think a two bed is good enough for two adults and three kids. It clearly isnt. A three bed would be needed. How does your search look like for three beds ?

ah c'mon you don't really think the state should be obliged to ensure you have a 3 bed house in the postcode of your choice just for the asking?

my wife grew up in a 2 bed town house with her grandad, both parents and 3 siblings. privacy was in short supply yes.

IMO the state needs to ensure you have a roof over your head. you work for the rest im afraid.

handlemaster · 03-05-2015 5:58pm

Xterminator wrote: »

ah c'mon you don't really think the state should be obliged to ensure you have a 3 bed house in the postcode of your choice just for the asking?

my wife grew up in a 2 bed town house with her grandad, both parents and 3 siblings. privacy was in short supply yes.

IMO the state needs to ensure you have a roof over your head. you work for the rest im afraid.

Would your wife live like that now ? Different time we live in. Fingal is a big area and the suppléments on offer dont cover the cost of accomadation. Its not a case of what your opinion is its a fact.

Mrs OBumble · 03-05-2015 6:20pm

syklops wrote: »

A three bed is required? So that each little darling can have their own room, while being in receipt of Rent Allowance?.

If the kids are of different genders and above a certain age (I'm not sure what it is), then RA won't be approved for a 2-bed, because it is now believes to be inadequate accommodation. Yes, I know that back in the good 'ole days things were different. But the OP has to raise their kids according to today's standards not those of 50 years ago.

OP the sad fact is that RA limits are calculated based on what people tell the state that their rent is, and that some people do commit fraud.

The legal answer is for you to move somewhere else, where RA limits are lower but demand and thus rents are lower.

MouseTail · 03-05-2015 6:22pm

There has to be a balance where it is worthwhile to work. Having a situation where working families are priced out of an area due to high RA levels would not be acceptable. If the RA levels were raised to say €1200 in Dublin 15, the market rate would move beyond that, and it simply wouldn't be economically advantageous to work.

mcko · 03-05-2015 7:01pm

Easy answer, if you cannot afford 3 kids then don't have them, I have 2 that is all my wife and I could afford, then maybe get a job and pay your own way like I have had to do since I left school in the 1980s, welfare is suposed to be a stop gap not a way of life.
It is all what I am entiltled to, I know 2 couples one is married with a child and they rent for €850 per month both working, her sister is living with her boyfriend and the father of her child, they both work but she gets rent allowance, who is the fool here.
You need to cut your cloth to your measure I would love a big house with a pool but guess what I can't afford it, will the tax payer get me one.

Pawwed Rig · 03-05-2015 7:24pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But the OP has to raise their kids according to today's standards not those of 50 years ago.

Hardly 50 years ago :rolleyes:
Many working parents are living in cramped conditions with expanding families with no access to this type of 'entitlement' but they make do with what they have.

handlemaster · 03-05-2015 7:49pm

P.S .l am not looking myself. Just pointing out the reality for some people looking for housing

Zamboni · 03-05-2015 8:34pm

handlemaster wrote: »

P.S .l am not looking myself. Just pointing out the reality for some people looking for housing

Same reality faced by, well everyone else.
If the budget does not stretch, move somewhere it does.

If this government increase the rent allowance threshold -which they might - it is an admission of a comprehensive failure in understanding the housing situation in this country.

syklops · 03-05-2015 8:38pm

handlemaster wrote: »

P.S .l am not looking myself. Just pointing out the reality for some people looking for housing

What would you say to a couple, both of whom work, who instead of being given 950 a month from the Social Welfare get the same amount deducted from their collective salaries and who can't find somewhere affordable to live?

The Zec · 03-05-2015 8:58pm

This type of attitude is to be expected when you give people something for free, you only see the true value in something when you work for it.

handlemaster · 03-05-2015 9:07pm

syklops wrote: »

What would you say to a couple, both of whom work, who instead of being given 950 a month from the Social Welfare get the same amount deducted from their collective salaries and who can't find somewhere affordable to live?

what would you say to a four year old kid that shares her homeless accommodation with drunks and drug users because her sick mother cant afford a home of her own on low income. You dont have to be unemployed to get rental allowance you know.The broad stroke of generality falls short when you start to look at people as just that people.

The Zec · 03-05-2015 9:10pm

handlemaster wrote: »

what would you say to a four year old kid that shares her homeless accommodation with drunks and drug users because her sick mother cant afford a home of her own on low income. You dont have to be unemployed to get rental allowance you know.The broad stroke of generality falls short when you start to look at people as just that people.

I would put legislation in place to track and come down heavy on the father, relentlessly pursuing him to support his child. Increasing rent allowance is not the answer.

Wanderer78 · 03-05-2015 9:16pm

handlemaster wrote: »

I was having a look at the rent allowance maximum levels for the different areas. In particular I know dublin 15 id say you would do well to get a 1 bed apartment there for 900 euro. yet the maximum rent allowance setting is 950 for a parent with three kids. There is no way anyone can get a three bed semi for than anywhere in Dublin 15. How do welfare honestly expect people to find accommodation with these 's maximum levels. I say this putting aside the fact most people pay privately. If welfare decide someone needs assistance they should be realistic.

your government simply doesnt care about you. terrible government

syklops · 03-05-2015 9:16pm

handlemaster wrote: »

what would you say to a four year old kid that shares her homeless accommodation with drunks and drug users because her sick mother cant afford a home of her own on low income. You dont have to be unemployed to get rental allowance you know.The broad stroke of generality falls short when you start to look at people as just that people.

This thread was started by someone giving out that the paltry 950 a month they get won't allow them get just the right house they want in just the right postal code.

I'd rather we have a policy of giving a home to anyone who needs it be they a drunk or a four year old. When everyone who needs a house has one, then we can satisfy the picky needs of some parents and give them their dream three bed house.

mcko · 03-05-2015 9:18pm

If you increase RA all you do is push up rents.

handlemaster · 03-05-2015 9:45pm

The Zec wrote: »

I would put legislation in place to track and come down heavy on the father, relentlessly pursuing him to support his child. Increasing rent allowance is not the answer.

Fathers dead. What do you suggest ? This is all great with BS on legisation. what about the here and now remember your the one telling the kid.

CollyFlower · 03-05-2015 11:02pm

How long has RA been in place? How did people manage to pay their rent before RA?

The Zec · 03-05-2015 11:05pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Fathers dead. What do you suggest ? This is all great with BS on legisation. what about the here and now remember your the one telling the kid.

What payment is she on? I would assume she is getting at least €188/week in some kind of social welfare payment + increase of €29.80 (x3) for each dependent child. Also childrens allowance for 3 children is €405/month. That works out at:

€1607.06 / month in total government payments.

Here is a beautiful 4 bedroom home in Ballyjamesduff, Co. Cavan for €695 / month, leaving her €912 / month remaining for bills, groceries, etc.

http:// www . daft . ie/lettings/oaklands-ballyjamesduff-cavan/1547561/

And no rent allowance involved. It's not in Dublin 15, but surely that's better than having children in a homeless shelter beside drug addicts and drunks? Or is staying in the homeless shelter a way of throwing her toys out of the pram until social welfare give in to her demands?

Btw if I am wrong about any of those figures by all means please correct me and I will offer an alternative practical solution based on accurate figures.

MouseTail · 03-05-2015 11:13pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Fathers dead. What do you suggest ? This is all great with BS on legisation. what about the here and now remember your the one telling the kid.

What do YOU suggest Handlemaster if you were in charge of the policy levers?
Forget about emotive arguments such as you are the one telling the kid, you are the one announcing this new policy to the nation.

Rent allowance in different areas, why is it so low ?

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