Dublin Airport's micro climate!

Elmer Blooker · 13-07-2013 3:27pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

AFAIK, the Merrion Square 'site' is on the rooftop of one of the buildings rather than in the park itself.

Not sure why ME HQ in Glasnevin couldn't give us some data..pretty sure they must have a station there?

it's interesting to note that the official highest January temperature was 18.5c at Glasnevin on 10-1-98 but I am almost certain that this was recorded at the Botanic Gardens and not HQ.

Mothman · 13-07-2013 3:44pm

compsys wrote: »

Well, not quite. Yesterday Dublin Airport was again (for I think the 10th day running) the coldest location by night in the county with a minimum of 8.7.

FWVT wrote: »

PS Dublin's minimum this morning was 13.2....exactly the same as Oak Park! Gurteen was 11.5. Both of these stations were hotter than Dublin yesterday.

I record mins often quite similar to Dublin AP at my climate station

8.1C and 13.2C respectively

FWVT · 13-07-2013 6:12pm

compsys wrote: »

When have they been forecasting minima of single figures? Can you show an example? I'd happily be proven wrong. Like I said, I haven't seen any recent forecast saying temps would get down to 7 or 8.

Also, complete PP data isn't available in the current weather section of the Met E site. They don't give current conditions, only temps and humidity.

Unfortunately I can't prove what their forecasts said as I don't have a record but I did find it surprising at the time I read it. I think it was around mid-week - maybe someone has a record.

The other stations recently added to the site (Athenry, Dunsany, etc.) don't have current weather either but as it's temperature we're talking about it doesn't really matter. Both of the other two Dublin stations are manned so they can give a fairly good idea of weather in the PP, which is almost half way between the two.

I note that PP has never reported windspeeds, however, and I would reckon it's probably due to the point I made about its sheltered location.

Danno · 14-07-2013 9:52am

Firstly, instead of bashing Met Eireann over the DA data one should try to understand WHY it is cooler.

- Soil type, I would wager a guess that a gentle gravel ridge covers the area... if you look at google maps sat view then you notice a quarry to the west of the runway. Gravel/sand ridges are notorious for helping rapid radiate cooling.

- Wind direction, For this it would be lovely to have live data (every 2sec or 3sec) and see what way the breezes are operating there. My hunch is that the Dublin City UHI causes a slight N to NNW breeze to develop on the otherwise calm nights, drawing in cooler air from the rural areas. When this cool air meets the boundary (M50 north might have a role to play here as it's elevated for alot of the northern cross route) it pools up in the general Dubber-Silogue-Merryfalls area backing up then to the Airport station itself. Note the area just to the southwest of the Apt station is called "Coldwinters" a clue in the name to the area?

Secondly, those referring to the LTA for DubApt should keep in mind that the LTAs are comparing the recent data against the previous sites within the perimeter of DubApt.

- Perhaps MetE could homogenize the older data to reflect the current site?

FWVT · 14-07-2013 10:56am

Yes, Kilkenny was sandy soil which is why it gave some of the hottest AND coldest temperatures in the country. If you look at Dublin's grass minima they're usually a few degrees less than Casement, which supports the radiative theory.

whitebriar · 15-07-2013 10:09am

There is nothing wrong with the now location of the Dub weather station.

It is very representative of the area.I wouldn't recommend putting it in the bus car park or putting a heater beside it :rolleyes:

It's not reasonable to expect a UHI to be present at the airport.

To a purist,weather temperature is not just what you get out of the wind,behind a hedge or surrounded by concrete,its the bigger picture.UHI's are interesting and it is nice if it warms you but they are other than that irrelevant in the bigger scheme.
The only affect I think they have on weather apart from localised heat is that extra degree that makes the urban snow in Irelands marginal set up melt quicker or fall as rain or dissipate frost.

Real heat over a wide area can trigger a thunderstorm,a UHI cannot for example or have any other influence bar local heat.
Most sheltered urban gardens are uhi's within uhi's but even more irrelevant except to the people in the garden.

It could be 100f on a court in Wimbledon for example but on a day it is,you wont hear that used as that days London temperature or a forecast for London.

Quickelles · 16-07-2013 5:31pm

Someone mentioned that DA recorded six straight months below the long term average; but Casement looks as if this month will be it's first month with an average temp higher than the LTA since August 2012.

January equalled the LTA and all the other months were below.

That's a ten month streak.

Mothman · 16-07-2013 6:56pm

Below LTA here in Ashford every month since Mar 2012 apart from Aug which was +0.1C

octo · 17-07-2013 9:20am

DOCARCH wrote: »

AFAIK, the Merrion Square 'site' is on the rooftop of one of the buildings rather than in the park itself.

Not sure why ME HQ in Glasnevin couldn't give us some data..pretty sure they must have a station there?

The Merrion Square station is in the gardens of Leinster House, just beside the natural history museum. The stevenson screen can be seen through the railings. The merrion square data is reported in the monthly bulletins

DOCARCH · 17-07-2013 9:50am

octo wrote: »

The Merrion Square station is in the gardens of Leinster House, just beside the natural history museum. The stevenson screen can be seen through the railings.

As they say...I was not aware of that.

Every day is a learning day.

DOCARCH · 17-07-2013 9:55am

octo wrote: »

The Merrion Square station is in the gardens of Leinster House, just beside the natural history museum. The stevenson screen can be seen through the railings.

Just wondering now how valuable historic data would be from that station considering in recent years, the lawn of Leinster House was turned into a massive car park, which remained for a couple of years, before being turned back to lawn.

octo · 17-07-2013 11:42am

DOCARCH wrote: »

Just wondering now how valuable historic data would be from that station considering in recent years, the lawn of Leinster House was turned into a massive car park, which remained for a couple of years, before being turned back to lawn.

The main problem is the proximity of the buildings. Leinster House itself is just to the west of it, making it just about the driest station in the country. Also, the stevenson screen was under a tree for many years, although I see it has moved now to a better location.

It's probably valuable in the sense of its central location, but its exposure is very poor.

compsys · 02-08-2014 2:34pm

It's crazy to think that Dublin Airport's mean temp was only .2 higher than the monthly average for July according to the Met E monthly stats. It felt far warmer in Dublin with the high getting into the 20s on well over 20 days.

Obviously the station was moved to a much cooler location a few years back so it just goes to show the difference a few hundred metres can make, which seems crazy.

Phoenix Park recorded a mean temp .7 above average for the month, which I guess feels more representative of the month and for Dublin in general.

Bsal · 02-08-2014 4:36pm

The weather station at Dublin airport is in a good location now, its in an open area with no trees, buildings or other objects nearby to influence the data.

compsys · 15-03-2023 8:23pm

Has anyone noticed that Dublin Airport's mini micro-climate seems to have gone?

It seems to have coincided with the opening of the North Runway at the airport but maybe that's just a coincidence!

As has been discussed, DA had a habit of recording very low overnight minimum temps on clear and very calm evenings. This is despite the fact it's in a coastal location - so whilst being kept cool by the sea breeze during the day, especially in summer, it should be kept milder at night.

However the station often had both the coldest/second coldest temp during the day and among the coldest at night on many nights. And often had monthly mean temps out of synch with the rest of the country - especially the other Dublin stations.

However, apart from last April, when DA went on a bit of a 'solo run' and recorded a monthly temp of -0.6 BELOW average (while Casement and PP were both well ABOVE average for the month) it's recorded far more 'normal' temps at night over the past few months - with no major monthly anomalies compared to the rest of the country.

Last night is a good example. It was relatively clam and clear - and also cool. The exact type of night where DA would have been the coldest station in Dublin and among the coldest in the country. But DA 'only' got down to 0º - while Casement (-0.7º) and PP (-0.7º) were colder, as were around a dozen other stations countrywide. It makes total sense that DA would remain slightly milder as it's closer to the sea - but this wasn't usually what happened until recently.

This is just one example but I've noticed this on dozens of nights over the past few months.

One for Sryan no doubt!

Bsal · 28-03-2023 3:57pm

It seems to have returned the other night with Dublin airport recording a low of -4.3 while Casement -2.5

compsys · 05-04-2023 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411858#Comment_120411858

Yes - I noticed that too. It ended up being the lowest recorded temp for all of March.

But it's been much rarer recently. It'll be interesting to see how the next few weeks play out. As it's often on calm, clear nights in summer when some of the widest anomalies occur.

sryanbruen · 17-04-2023 12:18am

Dublin Airport in a world of its own right now. The lowest in the UK/Ireland at this moment and 5.1C vs Casement's 12.9C.

.Donegal. · 21-04-2023 2:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444391#Comment_120444391

I remember reading the March report and was confused by it being listed as the coldest recorded temperature for March as multiple official climate stations recorded colder temperatures around the 8th of March. ILLIES ACS in inishowen recorded -6.5. Do they only use the main stations for those reports? I’m sure I’ve seen climate stations mentioned before on them though.

sryanbruen · 21-04-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502149#Comment_120502149

The monthly weather summaries are specifically based on the 25 synoptic stations that you see on pages like yesterday's weather. The climate stations used to be in the monthly weather bulletins which they stopped producing after December 2015 unfortunately. The "daily weather" section of the past weather statements page uses climate stations from a certain point - currently up to February 2021. I don't know what's taking their time in updating to more recent months, all of 2021 should have been updated now to include at least.

The odd time they have mentioned a climate station in the summaries including Durrow breaking the August record in 2022.

.Donegal. · 21-04-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503212#Comment_120503212

Thanks good to know. Pity they stopped using them. Edit - Do you know how long ILLIES ACS has been in operation? I only noticed it for the first time last year.

pauldry · 24-04-2023 10:30pm

Temperature in Dublin Airport now 1c while its 5c in Casement.

compsys · 24-04-2023 11:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517223#Comment_120517223

DA at 0º, Casement at 1º, and PP at 2º on the 11pm reports - so nothing overly unusual now. PP always a degree or two warmer given its sheltered location. And the MET E forecast does have Dublin getting down to -1º.

Will be interesting to see if DA goes off on a tangent later tonight or whether its overnight minimum remains close to the other nearby stations and within the forecast range...

sryanbruen · 25-04-2023 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503601#Comment_120503601

A lot of the WOW climate stations are not available on the historical database of met.ie which provides information on the stations unfortunately. There has been a rainfall station in operation in the same location since 2002. Perhaps this is the same station and parameters like temperature are just part of the automatic station but are not considered for climatological analysis? Makes you wonder about some of the other ACS on WOW such as Clonmel and Bunclody which were noted for high temperatures last summer but are not on the historical database.

compsys · 18-07-2023 11:36pm

Well. The debate has been settled. DA was definitely moved to a cooler location! Especially at night.

According to the new 30-year climatic averages the yearly mean max and min temps are:

1981 - 2010 13.3º/6.4º

1991 - 2020 13.3º/6.1º

In spite of global warming, the mean max temps are similar over the year with some small variations (June days are fractionally warmer, July days have seen no change, August days are fractionally cooler).

But some big changes at night.

Average overnight April low at the station is now 4º compared to 4.6º previously.

Average May low is now 6.6º compared to 6.9º previously.

Average June low is now 9º compared to 9.6º previously.

Average July low is now 11.3º compared to 11.7º previously.

Not surprised about the overnight temps. But amazed the station is no warmer during the day.

https://www.met.ie/cms/assets/uploads/2023/07/www_met_ie_dublin_9120-1.htm

Dublin Airport's micro climate!

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