BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Spanish Eyes · 30-11-2019 5:03pm

2050 at the earliest for this! Sorry for being so negative, but honestly, with the humungous time frame projected as it is, I'm not feeling very positive.

Great thread, thanks for all the contributions. I am very fortunate to live on one of the premier bus lane routes into the city, so not too much change for me. However, further up the line there will be, and I suppose change will be opposed if it is not evident right now, that the changes will improve things.

So onwards and upwards and trees, and villages and so on.

tom1ie · 01-12-2019 7:17pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

2050 at the earliest for this! Sorry for being so negative, but honestly, with the humungous time frame projected as it is, I'm not feeling very positive.

Great thread, thanks for all the contributions. I am very fortunate to live on one of the premier bus lane routes into the city, so not too much change for me. However, further up the line there will be, and I suppose change will be opposed if it is not evident right now, that the changes will improve things.

So onwards and upwards and trees, and villages and so on.

2050? Where has that date come from? That couldn’t be right could it?!!

Cookie_Monster · 02-12-2019 8:55am

tom1ie wrote: »

2050? Where has that date come from? That couldn’t be right could it?!!

like the way the metro was proposed in the 80ies and still isnt built... :pac:

Peregrine · 02-12-2019 12:43pm

Ruth Coppinger was not happy at being found out to be lying about BusConnects. She's been handing out leaflets, holding demonstrations and posting on social media all based on wrong information. You'd wonder how many more of them are at it.

You'll have to read the whole thread.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1200798658016489483?s=20

https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerTD/status/1200869439249567747?s=20

devnull · 02-12-2019 1:20pm

Peregrine wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger was not happy at being found out to be lying about BusConnects. She's been handing out leaflets, holding demonstrations and posting on social media all based on wrong information. You'd wonder how many more of them are at it.

You'll have to read the whole thread.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1200798658016489483?s=20

https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerTD/status/1200869439249567747?s=20

Have to remember the fact that a large part of the previous campaign by the Socialist Party or whatever they are called now was to support the NBRU members interests rather than true concern for the public and they were using misinformation to the public in order to assist the NBRU.

Go-Ahead have the contact for almost all the orbital and local routes and Dublin Bus have the direct city services routes. The NBRU only represent members in Dublin Bus and not Go Ahead Ireland. Therefore loss of direct city service will effect their members. This is their true motivation.

SIPTU represent members in both Dublin Bus and Go Ahead Ireland and you will notice that they are very quiet about things in comparison and you will notice in the original announcement, were not supplying left wing TDs with propaganda materials to use in meetings like the NBRU did last time.

L1011 · 02-12-2019 1:40pm

SIPTU have an official political party (re-confirmed, just about, a few years ago) still - something other parties that might want the same audience are quite bitter about.

Dravokivich · 02-12-2019 4:05pm

Well, at least she isn't using kids to hold up her posters anymore.

Jamie2k9 · 02-12-2019 11:26pm

The NBRU object to everything. You can never please them, I can't think of anything they have said yes its a good idea there is always an objection or concern.

Idbatterim · 03-12-2019 7:15pm

I took the bus into town for a quick meeting today around 3pm. Not happening again, I am going back to driving in. Do the buses actually have to stop every few seconds, do they really need to be so ridiculously close? why not just drop everyone to the door on the route? :rolleyes: Then there is the interaction with the driver, paying etc, totally ridiculous! It should be totally cashless and needs to be asap!

Zebra3 · 03-12-2019 9:52pm

The current cashless system is too slow.

If five people get on and want to pay cashless, there's usually a queue going out the bus and it's delayed anyway.

Polar101 · 04-12-2019 1:45am

Peregrine wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger was not happy at being found out to be lying about BusConnects.

This is pretty depressing - she wants to "save" the 38 which takes 1.5 hours to/from the city. I take the 38's daily and I definitely won't be sad to see them go. This is why I don't think the BusConnects will actually ever happen - there are too many people concerned about front gardens and parking, and then you have the Coppingers who just say no to any change, without actually knowing what they are talking about. I actually thought Coppinger was a good local politician, but I've changed my mind now.

dublinman1990 · 04-12-2019 2:41am

There was a rumour from Cityswift's Flickr account during the weekend that the current PSO livery from the NTA will be changed again in 2020.

devnull · 04-12-2019 8:26am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There was a rumour from Cityswift's Flickr account during the weekend that the current PSO livery from the NTA will be changed again in 2020.

Yes. It's still to be confirmed exactly what it will look like but follows discussions with other stakeholders such as groups and operators who are said to have views on current livery for various reasons and how acceptable it is in their view.

p_haugh · 04-12-2019 9:01am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There was a rumour from Cityswift's Flickr account during the weekend that the current PSO livery from the NTA will be changed again in 2020.

That's some good news to hear!

dublinman1990 · 04-12-2019 5:59pm

Is the blue being taken out of the livery altogether or is it being kept with a new colour variation?

CatInABox · 08-12-2019 12:35am

The RTPI system seems to be getting some upgrades. Hopefully this makes it easier to roll out to more stops.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1203456916418117633

devnull · 08-12-2019 12:46am

CatInABox wrote: »

The RTPI system seems to be getting some upgrades. Hopefully this makes it easier to roll out to more stops.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1203456916418117633

Believe it's just a trial at the moment.

Cookie_Monster · 08-12-2019 12:47am

how long will they last I wonder

donvito99 · 08-12-2019 12:50am

At that height it is much easier to deface/stick stickers all over.

Also appears to be showing both inbound and outbound buses at an outbound stop?

strandroad · 08-12-2019 1:03am

CatInABox wrote: »

The RTPI system seems to be getting some upgrades. Hopefully this makes it easier to roll out to more stops.

You can see the minutes from a distance now, this takes it away, why?

Joker2019 · 08-12-2019 1:32am

Could be useful as stops without an RTPI display on bus stop poles or built into the shelter can't much use for in addition to an RTPI pole

p_haugh · 08-12-2019 1:45am

That looks like it’s attached to the existing rtpi pole, so it could be they still have the one up top as well?

cherryghost · 08-12-2019 2:02am

p_haugh wrote: »

That looks like it’s attached to the existing rtpi pole, so it could be they still have the one up top as well?

Yeah, its for people with sore necks

p_haugh · 08-12-2019 2:35am

Found another tweet about this, the existing RTPI screen is in fact still there:

https://twitter.com/e_slat/status/1203455967960145920

Breezer · 08-12-2019 4:29am

I don’t understand the point in this. I mean it’s nice, but it doesn’t add anything to the existing displays. Why not roll out the existing technology to more stops?

StreetLight · 08-12-2019 10:06am

Breezer wrote: »

I don’t understand the point in this. I mean it’s nice, but it doesn’t add anything to the existing displays. Why not roll out the existing technology to more stops?

Maybe the lower height display is better for wheelchair users?

Breezer · 08-12-2019 3:05pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Maybe the lower height display is better for wheelchair users?

Maybe. I’d have my doubts though, unless they also have a neck problem. I can see the higher ones fine when sitting at a shelter. Having said this, I am not a wheelchair user, and am open to being corrected.

I guess they show more info than the existing displays.

CatInABox · 08-12-2019 3:29pm

Here are some things that I'd see as a positive:

They show more buses than the current displays
They're easier to read for people with sight issues
They have a button for an audio announcement for people with severe sight issues
They could also display things other than the schedule, such as a local map, etc

Speculating here, but these are also very similar to the e ink displays used elsewhere that are solar powered. Not sure how viable those would be in Ireland, could a small solar panel run an e ink display, low power computer and a cellular modem? If it worked, it'd make the roll out of these things everywhere a snap.

There's downsides as well of course, but these do look pretty good to me.

Sam Russell · 08-12-2019 3:36pm

Are these new displays cheaper to deploy?

Are they vandal proof?

AndrewJRenko · 09-12-2019 11:15pm

Deadline is imminent;

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1203979012906860544

Peregrine · 09-12-2019 11:56pm

Everyone on this thread should be making a submission.

Joker2019 · 10-12-2019 12:14am

p_haugh wrote: »

Found another tweet about this, the existing RTPI screen is in fact still there:

https://twitter.com/e_slat/status/1203455967960145920

Maybe in the long run these could be used in a larger form to display the actual timetable and scheduled departures alongside RTPI and it could have other use to display things like passenger information and things like spider maps. It would make the process of updating stop information a lot quicker, cheaper, more accurate and less labour intensive than replacing paper timetables.

Look at the way many of the stops served by GAI are displaying inaccurate out of date information.

AlmightyCushion · 10-12-2019 12:35am

Peregrine wrote: »

Everyone on this thread should be making a submission.

At the very least any for the plan should be complaining about how long it is going to take and the lack of bus lane enforcement. If enough people say it they might aim to get it done sooner and might even look at enforcing bus lanes for once.

sharper · 10-12-2019 9:08am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

At the very least any for the plan should be complaining about how long it is going to take and the lack of bus lane enforcement. If enough people say it they might aim to get it done sooner and might even look at enforcing bus lanes for once.

There's no point complaining to the NTA about bus lane enforcement, they wanted ANPR based enforcement as part of bus connects. The problem is the minister for transport said he won't be doing it for reasons known only to him.

We would need some sort of separate petition or submission going to the minister, getting him to explain himself would be something at least.

L1011 · 10-12-2019 9:33am

Ross will be gone (likely as a TD too) by May, probably earlier as I suspect FF will collapse the government in January when the HSE trolley figures start mounting as usual. Think it's time to just ignore him for a few weeks because we know he won't do anything useful

LeinsterDub · 10-12-2019 9:35am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Are these new displays cheaper to deploy?

Are they vandal proof?

No sure it's already in the Liffey! Jesus why does a comment like this get posted every times we get something new.

magicbastarder · 10-12-2019 9:49am

L1011 wrote: »

Ross will be gone (likely as a TD too) by May

have there been any polls on this?
i recently read an opinion piece that ross has highlighted how a weak minister exposes how change resistant the relevant department can be. it shouldn't need a strong minister for Transport to actually show some initiative. even if the minister was then to claim their work as his own.

Evil_g · 10-12-2019 9:57am

magicbastarder wrote: »

have there been any polls on this?
i recently read an opinion piece that ross has highlighted how a weak minister exposes how change resistant the relevant department can be. it shouldn't need a strong minister for Transport to actually show some initiative. even if the minister was then to claim their work as his own.

It absolutely needs a strong Minister to (a) first of all bring proposals for change to cabinet table and receive funding, and (b) to lead the public response to the inevitable opposition to any proposals for change.

Ross has been absolutely abysmal at both of these central elements of his role. I'm finding it hard to think of a worse cabinet minister. (Some made terrible decisions, but at least they were effective in making these decisions).

The only difference between him and the Healy Rae's is his plummy accent. (So it's arguable that he's marginally worse than them).

I wouldn't be confident of him losing his seat, but hopefully the next government won't need to rely on a charlatan like him.

L1011 · 10-12-2019 10:24am

magicbastarder wrote: »

have there been any polls on this?

Local elections and four by-elections with a bonfire of Independents (and that's even with Paul Gogarty's significant figure in DMW) compared to the previous time - people are fed up with Independents doing nothing as they basically all do.

He's also lost most (all?) of his pet Councillors which will damage him as nothing will be getting done on the ground and shows the momentum has moved away from him; and a block of the rural bit of the constituency that could be swung in by his Stepaside Garda Station obsession has been moved to Dun Laoghaire.

There'll probably be a ninth seat for DLR in the next revision as both constituencies are above the recommended headcount, but that'll be 2023 or so and I doubt he'd run again even if there was an election nearly immediately.

Dyr · 10-12-2019 10:33am

Evil_g wrote: »

It absolutely needs a strong Minister to (a) first of all bring proposals for change to cabinet table and receive funding, and (b) to lead the public response to the inevitable opposition to any proposals for change.

You realise that half a dozen posters on boards are not the public, yeah?

Evil_g · 10-12-2019 10:53am

Bambi wrote: »

You realise that half a dozen posters on boards are not the public, yeah?

I'm not sure what you think I said.

SPDUB · 10-12-2019 11:54am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Are these new displays cheaper to deploy?

Are they vandal proof?

Given that I've seen the armoured bus shelters damaged nothing is vandal proof to the dedicated vandal .

Victor · 11-12-2019 12:56pm

Do people want to post their submissions?

L1011 · 11-12-2019 1:08pm

Mine was that the North Kildare plans are overly reliant on DART Expansion and evening frequency is insufficient without it. Otherwise supportive

loyatemu · 11-12-2019 2:11pm

I suggested better connectivity from north Wicklow to the Luas and by extension Sandyford, but I made this submission the first time around (as did most of the local pols) and it was ignored. They're proposing extending the Green Line to Bray, put a bus on for the time being to build demand...

Other than that, minor observations about the Greystones area routes and a general message of support for the overall process.

CatInABox · 11-12-2019 3:36pm

I asked if something more could be done with the H route, as I think it's a missed opportunity. Also told them that I was supportive over all, and that even with the H route thing, I was happy enough with it.

Evil_g · 11-12-2019 3:51pm

The problem is that the original plan was largely excellent, and would have benefited a huge number of commuters.

As I've mentioned up the thread, in my case, the F3 would have served the entirety of Lorcan O'Toole Park and Stannaway road, and headed directly into town connecting with all orbitals.

Because of a handful of my neighbours claiming that a bus to Rathmines is vital to them, the F3 is now routed down Kimmage, and has been replaced by a 15 which travels half way around the world to get to town.

This new 15 bus operates at a lower frequency than the existing 83.

This outcome could only have been avoided if the thousands of people who would have benefited from the original F3 route had mobilised in support of it, to show that they outnumber the cranks.

But of course that was never going to happen, so in this respect the consulting process was set up to fail.

I've made a submission proposing that they revert to the original plan, but I expect it to be ignored, because I introduce myself as a supporter of Bus Connects, rather than a self anointed spokesperson for the most vulnerable in society.

You only have to compare the map of the second proposal with the first to see that my experience is being duplicated all over town.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the project is already a shambles and is only going to get worse.

TheChrisD · 11-12-2019 4:12pm

Victor wrote: »

Do people want to post their submissions?

Consider making Ongar Village the B1 & B2 terminus

There is zero chance you would fit buses in through Ongar village.

Could Dunboyne be provided with a direct city service by merging route 264 with either routes 34 and 35 or B4?

Please no merging of the Dunboyne-Blanch route. Plus, direct routes from Dunboyne are already long enough as it is, and were annoyingly long when the 70 used to go via Blanch village. A merge with 34/35 with even more detours through Carpenterstown or Corduff would be worse.

AlekSmart · 11-12-2019 7:55pm

Evil_g wrote: »

The problem is that the original plan was largely excellent, and would have benefited a huge number of commuters.

As I've mentioned up the thread, in my case, the F3 would have served the entirety of Lorcan O'Toole Park and Stannaway road, and headed directly into town connecting with all orbitals.

Because of a handful of my neighbours claiming that a bus to Rathmines is vital to them, the F3 is now routed down Kimmage, and has been replaced by a 15 which travels half way around the world to get to Kimmage.

This new 15 bus operates at a lower frequency than the existing 83.

This outcome could only have been avoided if the thousands of people who would have benefited from the original F3 route had mobilised in support of it, to show that they outnumber the cranks.

But of course that was never going to happen, so in this respect the consulting process was set up to fail.

I've made a submission proposing that they revert to the original plan, but I expect it to be ignored, because I introduce myself as a supporter of Bus Connects, rather than a self anointed spokesperson for the most vulnerable in society.

You only have to compare the map of the second proposal with the first to see that my experience is being duplicated all over town.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the project is already a shambles and is only going to get worse.

Well said !

The original Jarret Walker Busconnects report remains probably the ONLY meaningful comprehensive report on Dublins Bus Service ever compiled.

For the first time,the task was allocated to somebody who specialized in Bus Based Public Transport,rather than yet another generic "Consultancy" in the mould of McKinsey,Deloitte,Indecon etc etc etc.

Walker's affinity for Bus Services shone through,and made it immediately apparent that Busconnects 1 was a Game Changer like never before encountered in Dublin terms.

Walkers thinking was Farsighted,Clear and Simple in the vast majority of the original proposals,and that perhaps ensured it's downfall.

Having commissioned the Report from,possibly the first actually functional "Expert",we now see the Authority deferring to the vague,rambling,sectional and illogical views of some 20,000 experts of varying hues,in yet another example of an "Irish Solution to an Irish Problem" which will do little to actually solve any of the issues which Walkers original plan at least faced up to.

It really is a sad reflection on what is supposedly an "Authority",that it ran away and hid,from pursuing and supporting the Clarity of Purpose which Walker displayed in Dublin 2040-Busconnects 1.

Is it a surprise ?

Nah,it's what we do in Ireland...often for no other reason than sheer Spite....

Zebra3 · 11-12-2019 8:36pm

You can see how knowledgeable JW is on public transport issues on Twitter.

But you can't beat know-nothing councillors chasing the votes of a couple of coffin dodgers.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Comments