Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

BattleCorp · 18-06-2019 2:55pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they were tried as adults the only sentence the judge can give is life.

Cryptopagan wrote: »

They can’t get a lesser sentence. Life is mandatory for murder.

Do we know for sure if they were tried as adults? I'm not 100% sure. If they were tried as children, then the Children's Act allows for lesser sentences.

maynooth_rules · 18-06-2019 2:55pm

Disgusted in the boys parents for this. They 1000% knew, yet caused the poor Kriegel family go through a horrible trial on the tiny chance their vermin could get off due to their lies.
I still remember the newspapers last month with the quotes that Ana was 'a freak'. This is a young girl, who died in the most horrific manner possible, who know is having her name and personality dragged through the mud. For shame on the boys parents.

Gael23 · 18-06-2019 2:55pm

Small Wonder wrote: »

Why do people want then named? What good will it do?

What good does naming any killer do?

A Summer In Provence · 18-06-2019 2:56pm

mloc123 wrote: »

The parents and barristers of the two boys should be ashamed of themselves. If they had any remorse they would have pleaded guilty to start.

McCrack wrote: »

The defence have nothing to be ashamed for. The good, bad and ugly are entitled to legal representation. It's part of living in a democracy - trial in due course of law.

I remember reading about the famous criminal barrister George Carmen QC, he was asked how he as a religious man could represent clients who were suspected of evil crimes. His answer was : “You have to approach the job professionally, like a good surgeon, a surgeon has to operate with the same level of care on all patients whether they're a nun or a prostitute is irrelevant”.

padd b1975 · 18-06-2019 2:56pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they were tried as adults the only sentence the judge can give is life.

So why is he waiting until July 15 to impose it?

bennyl10 · 18-06-2019 2:56pm

Cryptopagan wrote: »

They can’t get a lesser sentence. Life is mandatory for murder.

All sentences for children are reviewed at 18 by the Parole board.

It’s a different ‘life’ if you’re under 18

BattleCorp · 18-06-2019 2:56pm

Suarezistheman wrote: »

What planet were they on actually pleading not guilty? Talk about being ill-advised. Absolutely delighted

I they plead guilty, they 100% would have gone to jail.

By pleading not guilty, they had a chance of being cleared.

ohnonotgmail · 18-06-2019 2:56pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Do we know for sure if they were tried as adults? I'm not 100% sure. If they were tried as children, then the Children's Act allows for lesser sentences.

Well i'm not certain as i have only read that here. the current RTE story doesn't mention it and i have not been following the trial.

Daisy78 · 18-06-2019 2:57pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They were tried as adults.

They'll get life, as is mandatory.

It stated on the radio that the judge has some discretion in relation to that. I really do think that given the guilty verdict they should be named. Retribution for a crime committed is as much about loss of reputation as it is about a sentence, and I very much doubt they will receive it given their age.

BattleCorp · 18-06-2019 2:57pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well i'm not certain as i have only read that here. the current RTE story doesn't mention it and i have not been following the trial.

I did a quick Google and can't see anything that says that they were tried as adults.

Maybe someone else will turn up something either way.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 18-06-2019 2:59pm

bigpink wrote: »

The parents knew well they were guilty

None of us know how we'd react if a child we had brought up and loved unconditionally committed such a vicious and brutal crime.

I'm sure denial, desperation to protect your child, deep down hope that maybe they are innocent or there were extenuating circumstances would be jumbled up with horror, fear and disbelief. These parents are facing a life sentence of their own now. Condemning them online like this is unfair in my view.

joe40 · 18-06-2019 2:59pm

For two 13 year olds to be capable of this level of evil and depravity is truly shocking. It was the only case in a long time where I used to turn off radio reports it was so hard to listen to.

The boys are scum and their families no better for helping and encouraging them to get off with their crime,

True parenting would be you're my son I still love you regardless, but you did this crime so accept the punishment. Maybe in a long long time from now some form of redemption might be possible but not now.
Instead these parents had full knowledge their sons committed this crime but still wanted them to get off. They're selfish scumbags too.

My heart goes out to all involved, Gardaí, medical personnel, legal teams and jury. The details of that case will never be forgotten.

banie01 · 18-06-2019 3:00pm

My thoughts are with Ana's parents and those who loved her.
Delighted that some modicum of justice has been achieved for her, but honestly disgusted that it ever got to the stage where a teenage girl was so cruelly treated by her peers in life and killed by her hope that things were going to improve.

The loss of naivety is IMO the loss of childhood, if poor Ana had been a little less naive, a little less hopeful she would still be alive.
That Anna would still be alive, if she was a less trusting person, a bit more grown up!
Horrifies me! Surely we want our kids to grow safe and happy in the bubble we can give them...
That, is an awful indictment on those who conspired to end her life.

Children should have the space to develop and grow, Anna's parents seem to have gone above and beyond in giving her that childhood.
Unfortunately for Anna, many of her peers were/are bullies and akin to fúcking monsters!
And she never get to be that grown up she dreamed of being

RIP Ana...

Small Wonder · 18-06-2019 3:01pm

Gael23 wrote: »

What good does naming any killer do?

That's a fair point. I just don't understand the sudden urge to have their identities revealed. They can rot in their cells as far as I'm concerned. Boy A and Boy B suits me fine.

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-06-2019 3:01pm

Berserker wrote: »

They'll be back out on the streets by their early 20s.

Unfortunately this is a definite.

pjohnson · 18-06-2019 3:02pm

Small Wonder wrote: »

That's a fair point. I just don't understand the sudden urge to have their identities revealed. They can rot in their cells as far as I'm concerned. Boy A and Boy B suits me fine.

They wont rot in cells they'll get freedom, then just move a few parishes over and live happily ever after. Parents of course following their angels. All forgotten about.

Dial Hard · 18-06-2019 3:02pm

Gael23 wrote: »

What sentences will they get as minors?

BattleCorp wrote: »

I did a quick Google and can't see anything that says that they were tried as adults.

Maybe someone else will turn up something either way.

It's been reported throughout that they were being tried as adults. I have no idea why there's suddenly confusion about this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-was-endlessly-bullied-murder-trial-told-1.3876068

'Although certain protections are in place, both accused are being tried as adults meaning “all the rights and rules of the criminal justice system apply." '

DellyBelly · 18-06-2019 3:02pm

Iam just shocked that this happened here in Ireland. This is something like you read in America or in Africa where human life seems so cheap. The fact that the perpetrators are Irish kids is very hard to comprend.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 18-06-2019 3:03pm

I didn’t read too much about the trial because it just felt so intrusive. I’m glad they’ve been found guilty. I remember at Christmas one of them asking the court to be allowed out to celebrate Christmas, for permission to spend time at their grandparents house and to go for walks.
I hope this Christmas is spent reflecting on what they done to that poor girl.

Green&Red · 18-06-2019 3:03pm

MightyMandarin wrote: »

God help you if your child ever commits a heinous crime. While how one is raised is definitely a factor in how they end up, to blame the parents for their sons committing an act of murder is totally unfair. Plenty of murderers and criminals were raised in good homes with loving parents.

It’s not that their child committed a heinous crime, it’s that they stood by and let Ana’s family go through a horrific trial instead of having their children take responsibility. Maybe at the start they believed their children, although I’m sure the gardas were able to provide enough evidence to them. So you can only conclude they hoped their children would get off

Talk about heaping more injury upon this family. Disgusting behaviour from the parents. Even in the Jamie Bolger case the parents cooperated

Small Wonder · 18-06-2019 3:03pm

Mandatory life sentence cannot be applied as they're minors. Children's Act legislation applies. A life sentence is available to the judge but he has a degree of discretion when sentencing. That's according to Newstalk just now.

ted1 · 18-06-2019 3:04pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

So why is he waiting until July 15 to impose it?

To decide if they go to the crazy house or not.

Reati · 18-06-2019 3:05pm

Small Wonder wrote: »

That's a fair point. I just don't understand the sudden urge to have their identities revealed. They can rot in their cells as far as I'm concerned. Boy A and Boy B suits me fine.

I think people who to see "who" did it less than know thier names If you get me.

It's such a vile thing they did that they did its hard to think of them as being your typical normal looking Irish 14 year old chaps.

Faugheen · 18-06-2019 3:06pm

bennyl10 wrote: »

All sentences for children are reviewed at 18 by the Parole board.

It’s a different ‘life’ if you’re under 18

Not for murder it can't. The trial was before the Central Criminal Court, not the Children's Court.

McCrack · 18-06-2019 3:06pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

Iam just shocked that this happened here in Ireland. This is something like you read in America or in Africa where human life seems so cheap. The fact that the perpetrators are Irish kids is very hard to comprend.

Are they Irish born?

bennyl10 · 18-06-2019 3:06pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's been reported throughout that they were being tried as adults. I have no idea why there's suddenly confusion about this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-was-endlessly-bullied-murder-trial-told-1.3876068

'Although certain protections are in place, both accused are being tried as adults meaning “all the rights and rules of the criminal justice system apply." '

All rules of criminal justice apply

Including that as Children their children’s rights are included. We aren’t the same as America, we don’t just make children into adults.

They’re conviction will be reviewed once they become adults.(18) and they will be in the child detention center until that point.

Jurgen The German · 18-06-2019 3:06pm

Cant add anything that hasn't been said. An immensely distressing case. As the father of a boy and a girl under three im dreading the teenage years and beyond. Poor Ana's life on show for all to see, relentlessly tormented and isolated. I've been imagining how happy she must have been when she was told that the boy she had a crush on wanted to meet her, its just heartbreaking.

jmayo · 18-06-2019 3:06pm

Gael23 wrote: »

What good does naming any killer do?

Because some day I would not want to be living beside an individual that carried out such a heinous crime.
I would not like my sons to become friends with an individual who had carried out such a heinous crime.
And I would definitely not want my daughter to end up in a relationship with someone that had carried out such a heinous crime.

They are murderers and rapists, they don't deserve anything.
They lost their rights when they laid a finger on that poor girl.

A Summer In Provence wrote: »

I remember reading about the famous criminal barrister George Carmen QC, he was asked how he as a religious man could represent clients who were suspected of evil crimes. His answer was : “You have to approach the job professionally, like a good surgeon, a surgeon has to operate with the same level of care on all patients whether they're a nun or a prostitute is irrelevant”.

Typical arrogance from member of legal profession suggesting they performed a function equal to that of a surgeon.

Also equating a murderer and rapist to a prostitute says it all as well.

Strazdas · 18-06-2019 3:07pm

RTE's Ola O'Donnell commenting on the way Boy B spoke about Ana's clothes and figure and saying this went down extremely badly in the court room. He was talking about a poor young girl who had been murdered after all.

Daisy78 · 18-06-2019 3:07pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Severely bullied in school.

That annoys me no end too.

Other kids involved in making her life a misery.

I think this saddened me as much as her death. No empathy or kindness shown by those kids at all towards her. Self serving bullies out to make a young girls life a misery. I don’t know, the older I get the more cynical I get about people in general.

trihead · 18-06-2019 3:07pm

Shocking case - Ana's family have been put through so much. She was obviously a victim here and it was her character that was put on a show while the two boys identities were hidden all long.

I do feel sorry (a bit angry as well) for the parents of both A and B although their actions can be questioned. I think the public's perception of the killer's parents is a bit wide of the mark - both A and B have a parent who has a 'middle-class'/ responsible type job - not what must think the families are like. In fact, I was shocked when I heard recently. It might have been too late once the deed was done but I think it could have been handled by the parents in a better way since then.

Gerianam · 18-06-2019 3:08pm

The sad fact is that there are children today, now, as we speak subjected to the same level of cruel and horrendous bullying that poor Ana endured.

DellyBelly · 18-06-2019 3:08pm

McCrack wrote: »

Are they Irish born?

I presume so? I haven't heard they were not?

eviltwin · 18-06-2019 3:08pm

Good. Hopefully the sentence will be appropriate. My sympathy to all three sets of parents. Rest in peace Ana.

Bobeagleburger · 18-06-2019 3:09pm

How long are these scumbags gonna get?

Will they be moved to adult prison when they hit 18?

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-06-2019 3:10pm

jmayo wrote: »

Bullcr**.

The triple murderer Brian Hennessy, who raped and killed a mother and then killed her two young children in the subsequent fire to hide his deeds on Christmas morning was eligible for parole after 7 odd years.

A 17 year old Thomas Murray killed his elderly neighbour in Co. Galway just to see what it was like.
Contrary to the advice and wishes of Castlerea prison governor and Gardai he was allowed out on temporary weekend release and 19 years later he bludgeoned another elderly neighbour to death.
He is also prime suspect in murder of Galway taxi driver woman.

That is our fooked up legal and justice system.

What? I'd go back and read exactly what you're calling bullcrap.

major bill · 18-06-2019 3:10pm

How many years could they be handed?, that poor girl suffered a horrible death, really upsetting to hear some of the details. Her family only want their daughter back but least it may give some closure.

RIP Ana.

Small Wonder · 18-06-2019 3:10pm

Reati wrote: »

I think people who to see "who" did it less than know thier names If you get me.

It's such a vile thing they did that they did its hard to think of them as being your typical normal looking Irish 14 year old chaps.

Yeah I can understand that.

jmayo · 18-06-2019 3:11pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

What? I'd go back and read exactly what you're calling bullcrap.

You appeared to be under the illusion that they will get long sentences were you not ?

McCrack · 18-06-2019 3:11pm

jmayo wrote: »

Because some day I would not want to be living beside an individual that carried out such a heinous crime.
I would not like my sons to become friends with an individual who had carried out such a heinous crime.
And I would definitely not want my daughter to end up in a relationship with someone that had carried out such a heinous crime.

They are murderers and rapists, they don't deserve anything.
They lost their rights when they laid a finger on that poor girl.

Typical arrogance from member of legal profession suggesting they performed a function equal to that of a surgeon.

Also equating a murderer and rapist to a prostitute says it all as well.

I don't think you get the analogy

retro:electro · 18-06-2019 3:11pm

Strazdas wrote: »

RTE's Ola O'Donnell commenting on the way Boy B spoke about Ana's clothes and figure and saying this went down extremely badly in the court room. He was talking about a poor young girl who had been murdered after all.

I remember that being covered. Didn’t he say she dressed like a slut? How absolutely tone deaf but an insight into the mind of the depraved piece of shlt

Dial Hard · 18-06-2019 3:12pm

trihead wrote: »

Shocking case - Ana's family have been put through so much. She was obviously a victim here and it was her character that was put on a show while the two boys identities were hidden all long.

Actually the judge put major reporting restrictions in place so that the media couldn't dig up and report on her character and life beforehand. Rightly so, imo. All that could be reported was what came out in evidence.

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-06-2019 3:13pm

jmayo wrote: »

You appeared to be under the illusion that they will get long sentences were you not ?

"Hopefully".

"HOPEFULLY"

Read.

In a perfect world. I'm under no illusions they'll be out to do it again before we see 2030, probably 2025.

Cryptopagan · 18-06-2019 3:14pm

Green&Red wrote: »

Talk about heaping more injury upon this family. Disgusting behaviour from the parents. Even in the Jamie Bolger case the parents cooperated

IIRC in the Bolger case the perpetrators were from horrible backgrounds.

Strazdas · 18-06-2019 3:14pm

retro:electro wrote: »

I remember that being covered. Didn’t he say she dressed like a slut? How absolutely tone deaf and an insight into the mind of the little piece of shlt

Indeed.....this was a young girl who had been murdered a few days earlier, he's being questioned about her murder and he speaks about her like that.

Hurrache · 18-06-2019 3:14pm

jmayo wrote: »

Typical arrogance from member of legal profession suggesting they performed a function equal to that of a surgeon.

He didn't.

You must also remember it's typical members of the legal profession who put such people in prison.

c.p.w.g.w · 18-06-2019 3:14pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Scumbag A should never be allowed out. A pure blooded Psychopath that will rape and kill someone again.

We can only hope he gets taken care of in prison.

I get the feeling boy B was easily led from the limited stuff I read and heard, found the details very hard to take. Not usually upset easily, but christ this case had me turning the news off on a number of occasions

Gerianam · 18-06-2019 3:14pm

They spoke about poor liitle Ana like that because through bullying they had completely dehumanised her in their warped little minds.

Gerianam · 18-06-2019 3:15pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Indeed.....this was a young girl who had been murdered a few days earlier, he's being questioned about her murder and he speaks about her like that.

They spoke about poor liitle Ana like that because through bullying they had completely dehumanised her in their warped little minds.

nehemiah · 18-06-2019 3:17pm

jmayo wrote: »

Bullcr**.

The triple murderer Brian Hennessy, who raped and killed a mother and then killed her two young children in the subsequent fire to hide his deeds on Christmas morning was eligible for parole after 7 odd years.

A 17 year old Thomas Murray killed his elderly neighbour in Co. Galway just to see what it was like.
Contrary to the advice and wishes of Castlerea prison governor and Gardai he was allowed out on temporary weekend release and 19 years later he bludgeoned another elderly neighbour to death.
He is also prime suspect in murder of Galway taxi driver woman.

That is our fooked up legal and justice system.

Everybody is 'eligible' for parole after 7 years

Prisoners sentenced to 14 years or more, (including life) are reviewed after 7 years have been served.

.

Most people don't want to hear it, but the average time served by a person who has received a life sentence has increased relatively steadily in the past 20 years

In 2011, the average length of a concluding life sentence reached 20 years for the first time. And the following year, 2012, life sentence prisoners released from jail had served an average of 22 years.

However, in the years since then the term of a life sentence has reduced, with last year’s average 18-year sentence in line with those reductions.

The average term served by “lifers” released from their sentences in the 1970s and 1980s was only 7½ years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/life-sentence-prisoners-served-on-average-18-years-before-being-released-1.3651950

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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