EIRE sign, Bray head discovery.

durandal01 · 05-08-2018 1:08am #1

https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/0804/983116-eire-sign-bray-head/

I did some rooting about online and found this interesting site...
http://eiremarkings.org/

Under His Eye · 06-08-2018 4:40pm

So were these signs to tell the Germans not to bomb us?

Del2005 · 06-08-2018 4:45pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

So were these signs to tell the Germans not to bomb us?

No. They were to tell both sides that they were over a supposedly neutral country. The 80 was added at request of the USA to use as navigation aids.

EchoIndia · 06-08-2018 6:54pm

Navigation was primitive by today's standards and it was not unknown for aircraft of the combatant nations to become lost and not know what country they were over. The Irish authorities wanted to deter aircraft of whatever country from overflying or landing here, even though they had only limited power actually to prevent this happening.

Under His Eye · 06-08-2018 7:08pm

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

salmocab · 06-08-2018 7:11pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

There is a graveyard in glencree for the few who ended up here, it’s. Nice for a stroll around.

Alun · 06-08-2018 7:15pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

Yes. There was a POW camp out at the Curragh somewhere. although it wasn't exactly Colditz by all accounts, with the 'prisoners' free to go to local dances etc. where some of them met and married local girls. There's a film called The Brylcreem Boys all about it, worth a watch if you're interested.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115770/

BailMeOut · 06-08-2018 7:19pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

plenty and were officially considered "guests" in Ireland not prisoners!

oleras · 06-08-2018 7:22pm

If only they put a few EIRE signs on the cliffs of Dover...may have prevented the blitz.

4068ac1elhodqr · 06-08-2018 7:31pm

It may be worth preserving as an historical artefact.

No harm in lo-fi navigational aids. Whoever sets sail to Mars, will likely have an emergency manual nautical sextant of sorts, in one of the spare cupboards, that can be operated off-line to acquire positioning.

L1011 · 06-08-2018 7:55pm

Those not robbed out for stone by local farmers are often being restored (new whitewash) by local FAS schemes. There's one back home near the ruins of a Lloyds wireless station which could be packaged up as a tourist thing

Fattes · 06-08-2018 8:53pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

Both Germans and Allies, and there was a secret Irish corridor that allowed allied aircraft transit over Donegal to extend their patrol time over the Atlantic.

Glencree is an amazing place, a British barracks, built to crush Irish revels, then used as a reform school, a refugee centre after WW2 and its quarry turned into a graveyard for Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine personal who perished in Ireland. Now used as a global peace and reconciliation centre

A lot of European history in a small corner of Wicklow

BZ · 06-08-2018 9:07pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

One crashed on the side of Mount Brandon. The engine is outside O Connors pub in cloghane village at the bottom of the mountain. A large number of aircraft ended up here during the war.

EchoIndia · 06-08-2018 9:28pm

BZ wrote: »

One crashed on the side of Mount Brandon. The engine is outside O Connors pub in cloghane village at the bottom of the mountain. A large number of aircraft ended up here during the war.

BMW-132H aircraft engine by Irish251, on Flickr

FW-200 Condor tailwheel by Irish251, on Flickr

Here is great website on WW2 crashes etc in Ireland: http://ww2irishaviation.com/

Under His Eye · 07-08-2018 8:03am

When did Shannon take on it's current name?

Del2005 · 07-08-2018 9:01am

Under His Eye wrote: »

Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

This is where our neutrality farce was shown for what it was. Any Axis who landed in Ireland where interred for the period of the emergency while any Allied who landed magically appeared in Northern Ireland and went back to the war.

The Germans bombed some parts of Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_II

EchoIndia · 07-08-2018 3:06pm

Del2005 wrote: »

This is where our neutrality farce was shown for what it was. Any Axis who landed in Ireland where interred for the period of the emergency while any Allied who landed magically appeared in Northern Ireland and went back to the war.

The Germans bombed some parts of Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_II

You may mean "interned". Some Allied personnel were interned in the Curragh but this policy seems to have eased as the war went on. You can read into the details here: http://ww2irishaviation.com/

Fattes · 07-08-2018 3:37pm

EchoIndia wrote: »

You may mean "interned". Some Allied personnel were interned in the Curragh but this policy seems to have eased as the war went on. You can read into the details here: http://ww2irishaviation.com/

"Interned" untill their paperwork was processed, and they figured out which way was North than they simply walked back to Allied Lines. Germans were given the same freedom, but getting home was a little more challenging

Under His Eye · 07-08-2018 3:39pm

And USAF lads were free to land and take off again. Shannon knew it's real purpose even back then.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 4:23pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

And USAF lads were free to land and take off again. Shannon knew it's real purpose even back then.

do you have a source for that?

Under His Eye · 07-08-2018 4:28pm

Yes, One USAF got lost going from Morocco to Scotland. They landed, and left the next day unhindered.

ohnonotgmail · 07-08-2018 4:29pm

Under His Eye wrote: »

Yes, One USAF got lost going from Morocco to Scotland. They landed, and left the next day unhindered.

anything more specific?

Davidth88 · 07-08-2018 4:49pm

I assume you mean the USAAF the USAF was only born in 1947.

I read a book about the British armed forces that were held . They were allowed to sign in and out as were the Germans. Some of the British made the north and were turned back because they had signed out and it was ' breaking their word as a officer !' Seems a bit mad. Apparently the German camp was very formal whereas the British one was pretty relaxed which sort of fits the racial stereotypes.

The majority of the Germans were navy and from a single ship where quite a large number of survivors were brought ashore iirc.

Interesting read., I have lost the book but it had green in the title.

The same book implied that Churchill offered the north back to ireland if they allowed full use of the western ports but it was turned down . I suspect that wasn't fully true ??

Chris_5339762 · 07-08-2018 5:55pm

Fattes wrote: »

Both Germans and Allies, and there was a secret Irish corridor that allowed allied aircraft transit over Donegal to extend their patrol time over the Atlantic.

Glencree is an amazing place, a British barracks, built to crush Irish revels, then used as a reform school, a refugee centre after WW2 and its quarry turned into a graveyard for Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine personal who perished in Ireland. Now used as a global peace and reconciliation centre

A lot of European history in a small corner of Wicklow

And in a small bit of "greater than war", when asked if the families of the German soldiers wanted them repatriated the vast majority chose to leave them in Glencree as its such a nice place. Its really worth a quick visit.

0lddog · 07-08-2018 8:52pm

Davidth88 wrote: »

.........
The same book implied that Churchill offered the north back to ireland if they allowed full use of the western ports but it was turned down . I suspect that wasn't fully true ??

Churchill was very much against giving up The Treaty Ports in the first place

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you have a source for that?

Echoindia posted a link to http://ww2irishaviation.com/ which illustrates this very well

Under His Eye wrote: »

When did Shannon take on it's current name?

I, too, would be interested to know this.

Bazzy · 08-08-2018 10:20am

EchoIndia wrote: »

BMW-132H aircraft engine by Irish251, on Flickr

FW-200 Condor tailwheel by Irish251, on Flickr

Here is great website on WW2 crashes etc in Ireland: http://ww2irishaviation.com/

Thats amazing link

one of my neighbours still has parts in his shed from this crash

une 28, 1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito FB.26 KA317 Unknown RAF 45 Group Transport Command Galway Ballinduff, Liffatulla, Ardrahan 1 1 "F/Lt Gordon Frederick AYTON 51167 +
F/O Hans Raymond ANDERSON J/38661 RCAF"
Crashed on during delivery flight from Canada. Landed in field at around 23:50 but hit a stone wall as it ran along. Aircraft burst into flames but Anderson was was helped away from burning a/c by two locals but was badly injured. Ayton's remains handed over the border on June 30th. Anderson who was able to speak to the officers is said in Irish report to be in danger of dying but no more mention is made. Named Raymond in the Irish report. Name found in RCAF casualty lists in July as seriously injured. H Haliday supplied bio info in Oct. 2007. H R Anderson died in 2004. Ayton remembered on the Dereham War Memorial Site. [MA File G2/X/1423; RAFCommands message forum Aug2004 thread (T Kearns & M Gleeson); Contacted the son and cousin of G F Ayton in 2008; Christie, p.329; mossie.org; IMA #B115; Robertson p.237]

I'll get some photos of the parts

Igotadose · 08-08-2018 10:26am

BZ wrote: »

One crashed on the side of Mount Brandon. The engine is outside O Connors pub in cloghane village at the bottom of the mountain. A large number of aircraft ended up here during the war.

I read a bit of a book published by a local lad, where he interviewed the graveyard keeper at the old hospital in Dingle. Apparently, the germans were interred there with iron crosses over their graves. Fast forward to recently (I think 5 years ago?) and their remains were exhumed and moved to the reconciliation center graveyard.

The graveyard keeper, however, wasn't 100% sure they got the right graves, he'd regularly move those iron crosses on the graves aside to mow them, then move them back... Cool story if true, and really 70+ years later it doesn't really matter whose bones are where, it's the sentiment that counts.

Tenger · 08-08-2018 10:47am

I also read in the history of Glebcree of a British officier being returned by his side. He broke the honour bond which allowed thrm to sign out.
He left the camp for a social visit then immediately pretended to return for his gloves, this fulfilled his bond/promise to return.
He then walked out the gate and escaped to the North. His claim being that the 2nd exit didnt have conditions attached.
The Brits returned him to the Irish as they didnt want their position of 'neutrality but leaning towards us' to harden to proper neutrality.

cameramonkey · 04-09-2018 11:24pm

https://lovin.ie/news/bray-head-eire-sign-restored-volunteers

Bray sign restored, great work by those guys.

Tenger · 05-09-2018 3:39pm

Davidth88 wrote: »

.......

The same book implied that Churchill offered the north back to ireland if they allowed full use of the western ports but it was turned down . I suspect that wasn't fully true ??

That is the official line. Dev declined the offer, whether out of spite or because he didnt trust Churchill is lost to history. However RAF aircraft were allowed to use the airway over Sligo which allowed them to go direct from Fermangh out to the Atlantic for anti- U-Boat patrols.

ambasite · 06-09-2018 12:55am

Nice video footage of it here:

ED E · 06-09-2018 12:57am

ambasite wrote: »

Nice video footage of it here:

Short links don't embed.

tricky D · 06-09-2018 1:26am

There is also one on Howth above Casana Rock, which is the most eastern point of Howth and makes sense. It was restored a few decades ago and is now overgrown, though some white bits can be seen on Google Earth.

Calina · 07-09-2018 1:23pm

tricky D wrote: »

There is also one on Howth above Casana Rock, which is the most eastern point of Howth and makes sense. It was restored a few decades ago and is now overgrown, though some white bits can be seen on Google Earth.

Hi. I would be grateful for any evidence of this as I have conflicting views on Howth's sign. I built www.eiremarkings.org and Howth pains me as I cannot be certain I located it correctly. A couple of people have had a look lately and have not really found anything and I have been given conflicting info about its precise location.

ohnonotgmail · 07-09-2018 1:29pm

casana rock is in the bottom right of this part of howth

https://www.google.com/maps/search/casana+rock+howth/@53.3806262,-6.0461809,160m/data=!3m1!1e3

tricky D · 07-09-2018 3:27pm

Calina wrote: »

Hi. I would be grateful for any evidence of this as I have conflicting views on Howth's sign. I built www.eiremarkings.org and Howth pains me as I cannot be certain I located it correctly. A couple of people have had a look lately and have not really found anything and I have been given conflicting info about its precise location.

I was just up there and it doesn't look to be the right place and there is nothing under the growth that looks like a contender and the area doesn't look large enough. I am thinking it is further south and inland which is well overgrown.

The good news is that Howth Pathways are talking about restoring it, It was restored 35 years ago and there are folks whose brains I am trying to pick who know exactly where it is (O'Rourkes).

Will let you know in due course.

salmocab · 07-09-2018 5:02pm

The Howth one would be great if it was visible on the flight path into Dublin

tricky D · 11-09-2018 10:50pm

@Calina

Got it!

Move your pin to 53°22'29.77"N 6° 2'59.36"W

Nothing visible from above or beside, for now. Fingal are in the mix now for getting it restored. I was right on top of it on Friday, rummaging up the paths but it is all gorsed and blackberried over.

Rawr · 13-09-2018 1:23pm

tricky D wrote: »

@Calina

Got it!

Move your pin to 53°22'29.77"N 6° 2'59.36"W

Nothing visible from above or beside, for now. Fingal are in the mix now for getting it restored. I was right on top of it on Friday, rummaging up the paths but it is all gorsed and blackberried over.

Ah man, I was way off (I thought I had found it ealier

)

You can kind of make it out on Google Maps if you use the above map as a reference. You can almost see the "6" too

https://www.google.com/maps/search/casana+rock+howth/@53.3748881,-6.0495757,117m/data=!3m1!1e3

Calina · 13-09-2018 1:39pm

Actually this is nice because it confirms one of the things I was told which was that it was landside of the path. I'll get the map and entry updated.

I had a look back at OSI aerial photography in the area. It really isn't clear on any of them so I think it has been pretty overgrown for at least 20 years. Someone told me the sign in Clogherhead in Louth is still in place but similarly, is overgrown and likewise, one in Fenit in Kerry. But no one had said anything about the Bray Head one. Anyway, the map is updated for Howth now along with the entry. I'd be grateful if I could add that image above though, tricky D. Did you draw it up yourself or is it on a plan somewhere (ie, whose permission do I have to ask?)

tricky D · 13-09-2018 2:08pm

Calina, it's is a Fingal CC map so should be fine to use. I will double check for you just in case and let you know.

There is a bench going to be put at the side of the path and Fingal have no plans to restore the sign. A reason cited was habitat loss but if enough people campaign for it being reinstated, that may change.

I feel a campaign coming on.

Calina · 13-09-2018 2:18pm

tricky D wrote: »

Calina, it's is a Fingal CC map so should be fine to use. I will double check for you just in case and let you know.

There is a bench going to be put at the side of the path and Fingal have no plans to restore the sign. A reason cited was habitat loss but if enough people campaign for it being reinstated, that may change.

I feel a campaign coming on.

It'd be a pity not to restore it - I have had 2 enquiries about that sign. Let me know if there is someone you think I should write to about it.

tricky D · 13-09-2018 2:34pm

I'm going to have chat with some of the local councillors and try to get a plan of action together.

Another thing is that that land is owned by Treasury Holdings who I am told are open to it being restored. /Good

0lddog · 13-09-2018 3:01pm

tricky D wrote: »

.......A reason cited was habitat loss .......

A perfect clause to get out of any gardening that I dont want to do.

Thanks Fingal !

Carawaystick · 16-09-2018 1:35am

I presume whoever might restore it are going to have the sign say Éire, not Eire, which would be a burden lifted...

P_1 · 16-09-2018 8:30pm

So if Howth is 6 and Bray is 8, where is 7?

EchoIndia · 16-09-2018 8:46pm

P_1 wrote: »

So if Howth is 6 and Bray is 8, where is 7?

Dalkey. There is lots on the net about these if you search.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1KRXEHosY4wTRMdKxpJijkf6lnFw&hl=en_US&ll=53.46220387758009%2C-8.23591250000004&z=6

P_1 · 16-09-2018 8:57pm

EchoIndia wrote: »

Dalkey. There is lots on the net about these if you search.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1KRXEHosY4wTRMdKxpJijkf6lnFw&hl=en_US&ll=53.46220387758009%2C-8.23591250000004&z=6

That makes sense. Think I may have to go exploring Howth next weekend

tricky D · 16-09-2018 9:05pm

P_1 wrote: »

That makes sense. Think I may have to go exploring Howth next weekend

You will see absolutely nothing. I went for a rummage there today right into the gorse and the evidence is so well buried beneath dead gorse that even my scrapings couldn't muster anything.

Disappointing tbh.

bronn · 16-09-2018 10:34pm

Was there today too. I tried to get in amongst the gorse but it was far too prickly. However, there are a few stones buried under there which could be part of it. Int he meantime, this is what it looks like (looking out to sea from behind it and looking at it from the cliff walk). Thanks for finding it, Tricky D.

I'd love to see it restored as it's much easier to get to than the Bray one.

bronn · 16-09-2018 10:46pm

Not a great photo, I know but you might be interested. This is Bray Head from Howth Summit. On full zoom, I could just about make out the Eire 8 sign but only because I knew exactly where to look for it.

EIRE sign, Bray head discovery.

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