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EIRE sign, Bray head discovery.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    So were these signs to tell the Germans not to bomb us?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,943 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    So were these signs to tell the Germans not to bomb us?

    No. They were to tell both sides that they were over a supposedly neutral country. The 80 was added at request of the USA to use as navigation aids.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Navigation was primitive by today's standards and it was not unknown for aircraft of the combatant nations to become lost and not know what country they were over. The Irish authorities wanted to deter aircraft of whatever country from overflying or landing here, even though they had only limited power actually to prevent this happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

    There is a graveyard in glencree for the few who ended up here, it’s. Nice for a stroll around.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?
    Yes. There was a POW camp out at the Curragh somewhere. although it wasn't exactly Colditz by all accounts, with the 'prisoners' free to go to local dances etc. where some of them met and married local girls. There's a film called The Brylcreem Boys all about it, worth a watch if you're interested.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115770/


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭BailMeOut


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

    plenty and were officially considered "guests" in Ireland not prisoners!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭oleras


    If only they put a few EIRE signs on the cliffs of Dover...may have prevented the blitz. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    It may be worth preserving as an historical artefact.

    No harm in lo-fi navigational aids. Whoever sets sail to Mars, will likely have an emergency manual nautical sextant of sorts, in one of the spare cupboards, that can be operated off-line to acquire positioning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,076 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Those not robbed out for stone by local farmers are often being restored (new whitewash) by local FAS schemes. There's one back home near the ruins of a Lloyds wireless station which could be packaged up as a tourist thing


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭Fattes


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

    Both Germans and Allies, and there was a secret Irish corridor that allowed allied aircraft transit over Donegal to extend their patrol time over the Atlantic.

    Glencree is an amazing place, a British barracks, built to crush Irish revels, then used as a reform school, a refugee centre after WW2 and its quarry turned into a graveyard for Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine personal who perished in Ireland. Now used as a global peace and reconciliation centre

    A lot of European history in a small corner of Wicklow


  • Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭BZ


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

    One crashed on the side of Mount Brandon. The engine is outside O Connors pub in cloghane village at the bottom of the mountain. A large number of aircraft ended up here during the war.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    BZ wrote: »
    One crashed on the side of Mount Brandon. The engine is outside O Connors pub in cloghane village at the bottom of the mountain. A large number of aircraft ended up here during the war.


    20211840051_a83527a208_b.jpgBMW-132H aircraft engine by Irish251, on Flickr


    20018083918_0df85e551e_b.jpgFW-200 Condor tailwheel by Irish251, on Flickr


    Here is great website on WW2 crashes etc in Ireland: http://ww2irishaviation.com/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    When did Shannon take on it's current name?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,943 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Did any Germans accidentaly land in Ireland?

    This is where our neutrality farce was shown for what it was. Any Axis who landed in Ireland where interred for the period of the emergency while any Allied who landed magically appeared in Northern Ireland and went back to the war.

    The Germans bombed some parts of Ireland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_II


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Del2005 wrote: »
    This is where our neutrality farce was shown for what it was. Any Axis who landed in Ireland where interred for the period of the emergency while any Allied who landed magically appeared in Northern Ireland and went back to the war.

    The Germans bombed some parts of Ireland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_II


    You may mean "interned". Some Allied personnel were interned in the Curragh but this policy seems to have eased as the war went on. You can read into the details here: http://ww2irishaviation.com/


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭Fattes


    EchoIndia wrote: »
    You may mean "interned". Some Allied personnel were interned in the Curragh but this policy seems to have eased as the war went on. You can read into the details here: http://ww2irishaviation.com/

    "Interned" untill their paperwork was processed, and they figured out which way was North than they simply walked back to Allied Lines. Germans were given the same freedom, but getting home was a little more challenging


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    And USAF lads were free to land and take off again. Shannon knew it's real purpose even back then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,288 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    And USAF lads were free to land and take off again. Shannon knew it's real purpose even back then.


    do you have a source for that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    Yes, One USAF got lost going from Morocco to Scotland. They landed, and left the next day unhindered.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,288 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Yes, One USAF got lost going from Morocco to Scotland. They landed, and left the next day unhindered.


    anything more specific?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Davidth88


    I assume you mean the USAAF the USAF was only born in 1947.

    I read a book about the British armed forces that were held . They were allowed to sign in and out as were the Germans. Some of the British made the north and were turned back because they had signed out and it was ' breaking their word as a officer !' Seems a bit mad. Apparently the German camp was very formal whereas the British one was pretty relaxed which sort of fits the racial stereotypes.

    The majority of the Germans were navy and from a single ship where quite a large number of survivors were brought ashore iirc.

    Interesting read., I have lost the book but it had green in the title.

    The same book implied that Churchill offered the north back to ireland if they allowed full use of the western ports but it was turned down . I suspect that wasn't fully true ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Fattes wrote: »
    Both Germans and Allies, and there was a secret Irish corridor that allowed allied aircraft transit over Donegal to extend their patrol time over the Atlantic.

    Glencree is an amazing place, a British barracks, built to crush Irish revels, then used as a reform school, a refugee centre after WW2 and its quarry turned into a graveyard for Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine personal who perished in Ireland. Now used as a global peace and reconciliation centre

    A lot of European history in a small corner of Wicklow


    And in a small bit of "greater than war", when asked if the families of the German soldiers wanted them repatriated the vast majority chose to leave them in Glencree as its such a nice place. Its really worth a quick visit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    Davidth88 wrote: »
    .........
    The same book implied that Churchill offered the north back to ireland if they allowed full use of the western ports but it was turned down . I suspect that wasn't fully true ??
    Churchill was very much against giving up The Treaty Ports in the first place
    do you have a source for that?
    Echoindia posted a link to http://ww2irishaviation.com/ which illustrates this very well
    When did Shannon take on it's current name?
    I, too, would be interested to know this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Bazzy


    EchoIndia wrote: »
    20211840051_a83527a208_b.jpgBMW-132H aircraft engine by Irish251, on Flickr


    20018083918_0df85e551e_b.jpgFW-200 Condor tailwheel by Irish251, on Flickr


    Here is great website on WW2 crashes etc in Ireland: http://ww2irishaviation.com/

    Thats amazing link

    one of my neighbours still has parts in his shed from this crash

    une 28, 1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito FB.26 KA317 Unknown RAF 45 Group Transport Command Galway Ballinduff, Liffatulla, Ardrahan 1 1 "F/Lt Gordon Frederick AYTON 51167 +
    F/O Hans Raymond ANDERSON J/38661 RCAF"
    Crashed on during delivery flight from Canada. Landed in field at around 23:50 but hit a stone wall as it ran along. Aircraft burst into flames but Anderson was was helped away from burning a/c by two locals but was badly injured. Ayton's remains handed over the border on June 30th. Anderson who was able to speak to the officers is said in Irish report to be in danger of dying but no more mention is made. Named Raymond in the Irish report. Name found in RCAF casualty lists in July as seriously injured. H Haliday supplied bio info in Oct. 2007. H R Anderson died in 2004. Ayton remembered on the Dereham War Memorial Site. [MA File G2/X/1423; RAFCommands message forum Aug2004 thread (T Kearns & M Gleeson); Contacted the son and cousin of G F Ayton in 2008; Christie, p.329; mossie.org; IMA #B115; Robertson p.237]

    I'll get some photos of the parts


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,143 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    BZ wrote: »
    One crashed on the side of Mount Brandon. The engine is outside O Connors pub in cloghane village at the bottom of the mountain. A large number of aircraft ended up here during the war.

    I read a bit of a book published by a local lad, where he interviewed the graveyard keeper at the old hospital in Dingle. Apparently, the germans were interred there with iron crosses over their graves. Fast forward to recently (I think 5 years ago?) and their remains were exhumed and moved to the reconciliation center graveyard.

    The graveyard keeper, however, wasn't 100% sure they got the right graves, he'd regularly move those iron crosses on the graves aside to mow them, then move them back... Cool story if true, and really 70+ years later it doesn't really matter whose bones are where, it's the sentiment that counts.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    I also read in the history of Glebcree of a British officier being returned by his side. He broke the honour bond which allowed thrm to sign out.
    He left the camp for a social visit then immediately pretended to return for his gloves, this fulfilled his bond/promise to return.
    He then walked out the gate and escaped to the North. His claim being that the 2nd exit didnt have conditions attached.
    The Brits returned him to the Irish as they didnt want their position of 'neutrality but leaning towards us' to harden to proper neutrality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    https://lovin.ie/news/bray-head-eire-sign-restored-volunteers

    Bray sign restored, great work by those guys.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Davidth88 wrote: »
    .......

    The same book implied that Churchill offered the north back to ireland if they allowed full use of the western ports but it was turned down . I suspect that wasn't fully true ??
    That is the official line. Dev declined the offer, whether out of spite or because he didnt trust Churchill is lost to history. However RAF aircraft were allowed to use the airway over Sligo which allowed them to go direct from Fermangh out to the Atlantic for anti- U-Boat patrols.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭ambasite


    Nice video footage of it here:



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