Take it handy lads...

AndrewJRenko · 20-04-2021 7:23am

Nozebleed wrote: »

took a spin to glendalough saturday...and i was absolutely fuming at the numer of cars who refused to overtake cyclists on wide open roads..it was ridiculous

now i wasn't speeding like mad..but on a few occasions i had to brake fairly hard approaching a queue of cars lined up behind a cyclist/group...must have happened 5 times over a 2 hour spin. and this was leaving blessington on the n81 heading in the direction of tallght. i just cant undertand cars slowing down to match the speed of the cyclists before taking an age to make the manouver.

Probably because they need to make sure that they have time and space to pass safely BEFORE they start the overtake, rather than pushing through blindly and finding themselves on the wrong side of a bend with an oncoming motorbike or vehicle approaching at speed.

The chan chan man · 20-04-2021 7:24am

I think everyone needs to take it handy at the moment. Bike and cars. With the weekends good weather and lifting of restrictions, i took a spin out to skerries. Cars were all over the m50 with drivers seemingly out of practice. I could see drivers in front of me weaving accidentally and the general situation just looked lethal. 3 bikes at different times absolutely tore up the white line between lanes with out of practice drivers barely able to drive in a straight line. Sadly there’ll be more accidents in my opinion if everyone doesn’t take more care

carfinder · 20-04-2021 7:39am

Varik wrote: »

Not sure if it's what everyone was referencing as it could be different years and different reports with slightly different numbers rounded off to 1/2, but it's definitely in the that Pre-Crash report that part of the theory test now.

https://rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Motorcycle%20Safety/Pre-Crash%20Report%20on%20Fatal%20Motorcycle%20Collisions%202008-2012.pdf

The frightening statistic from that report is in 86% of fatalities, motorcyclists were culpable or part culpable - thats a damning statistic for a vulnerable roaduser group and points to a serious change in the mindset of bikers being required to reduce motorcyclist fatalities

listermint · 20-04-2021 7:47am

carfinder wrote: »

The frightening statistic from that report is in 86% of fatalities, motorcyclists were culpable or part culpable - thats a damning statistic for a vulnerable roaduser group and points to a serious change in the mindset of bikers being required to reduce motorcyclist fatalities

So if cars where removed from roads bike crashes would reduce dramatically?

In the classic tbone scenario between two cars..insurers nearly always always side with the vehicle already on the road with the offender being the vehicle pulling out.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 8:54am

listermint wrote: »

So if cars where removed from roads bike crashes would reduce dramatically?

In the classic tbone scenario between two cars..insurers nearly always always side with the vehicle already on the road with the offender being the vehicle pulling out.

small comfort to the deceased or their families

keano25 · 20-04-2021 8:59am

Lads, the amount of bikes I met coming against me on the Ring of Kerry Sunday driving way in excess of the given road conditions was crazy..

Slow down, plenty of bends, potholes, sheep, cyclists, people and cars around corners on that road..

listermint · 20-04-2021 10:13am

keano25 wrote: »

Lads, the amount of bikes I met coming against me on the Ring of Kerry Sunday driving way in excess of the given road conditions was crazy..

Slow down, plenty of bends, potholes, sheep, cyclists, people and cars around corners on that road..

Living on the east coast I'm not sure what that has to do with me.

I saw a lad called Keane use a ladder precariously before. Plenty of people fall off ladders you should cop on for all the keanes out there

carfinder · 20-04-2021 10:26am

listermint wrote: »

Living on the east coast I'm not sure what that has to do with me.

I saw a lad called Keane use a ladder precariously before. Plenty of people fall off ladders you should cop on for all the keanes out there

Theres probably a ladders forum here somewhere - maybe you could post your concerns there. In fairness to the poster I think he addressed his post to all on the forum not just the narcissistic Listermint who thinks its all about him:D

iwillhtfu · 20-04-2021 10:30am

listermint wrote: »

Living on the east coast I'm not sure what that has to do with me.

I saw a lad called Keane use a ladder precariously before. Plenty of people fall off ladders you should cop on for all the keanes out there

The very same could be said for the majority of the roads around the wicklow mountains on a nice weekend.

I think this thread is going around in circles. Speed, inattentiveness, poor driving, poor road surface and sometimes down right stupidity can all be factors in a crash.

The RSA while going on an odd tangent with the whole roll off and speeding bikers are highlighting bikers to all ears on the radio so there's no harm in my eyes. If people want to take offence let them away I'm sure something more offensive will be along shortly.

di11on · 20-04-2021 10:48am

I agree that targeting the speeding issue simplifies the causes of motorcycle accidents in the minds of other road users. A lot of in-depth research has been carried out. It is quite well summarised in this wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety

I have looked into the referenced MAIDS study myself a good bit and the information is there for everyone to read regarding the causes and contributory factors in motorcycle accidents.

Here are some interesting statistics from the MAIDS study

- 60% of accidents involved a collision with another vehicle (OA), usually a car
- 69% of the OV [other vehicle] drivers attempted no collision avoidance manoeuvre, suggesting they did not see the motorcycle.

This says that over 40% of motorcycle accidents are caused by a car driver not seeing the motorcycle.

Interestingly, the MAIDS study also showed that car drivers who also had a motorcycle license were less likely to commit a perception error. Basically, car drivers generally aren't looking for a bike - but if they were, they would see them.

20-04-2021 10:53am

carfinder wrote: »

That sounds an awful lot like condoning speeding and expecting car drivers to be mindful of speeding biker because it could be a garda speeding. I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding. I wonder how many drivers observations and reactions would be perfectly fine if they encountered bikers obeying speed limits?

You do encounter many bikers. You just don't see most of them, like the majority of car drivers.

20-04-2021 10:59am

raven41 wrote: »

Been biking over 30 years, started in my late teens. Commuted on bikes when carless for years and now have 2 weekend toys. There is a lot of whataboutery going on here. What about the state of the roads, car drivers on phones, incorrect stats from the rsa etc. I think anyone who regularly rides a bike is either fibbing or totally delusional to think that speed isnt a factor when it comes to biker accidents. A lot of defensive attitudes and finger pointing elsewhere which is kind of understandable in the wake of 7 or so poor souls losing their lives in recent weeks.
Not adopting a holier than thou attitude as I, like most regularly break the speed limits and yes the standard of driving (2 and 4 wheels) on Irish roads is absolutely appalling (due in large part to no proper policing ie you get away with it by and large).
As I see it, you ride to suit your environment, whether that be rain, fog or just the chance that someone WILL pull out on you in an urban area and adjust your speed accordingly.
In essence we are master of our destiny and it seems that some of us dont want to admit our own culpability in single vehicle accidents.

While I agree to some extent, and we all know the lunatic who acts like he's on a Moto GP track every time he goes out, I don't believe the majority of bikers here are anything like that.

I've been biking over 20 years now, obey the speed limit at all times and any close shaves I've had have all been due to car drivers cutting me off or pulling out in front of me. You can't eliminate risk on a bike, but you can minimise it.

The BMW/Harley midlife crisis brigade are another danger - people who got a bike licence in their 20s, hardly ever rode a bike and now in their 50s buy one and act like they have been riding for decades. Recipe for disaster.

mamax · 20-04-2021 11:14am

carfinder wrote: »

Incorrect, The RSA statistics shows that speeding motorcyclists are the leading causef fatalities of motorcyclists. A troubling mindset of SOME motorcyclists on here appears to believe otherwise - hopefully the RSA campaign will persuade reasonable bikers to ignore the echo chamber and slow down

I would say a % of those statistics from the RSA are a guess, the riders that died from a motorcycle crash were not able to give their side of the story afterwards so it would be presumed excessive speed was the cause, not a pothole or an animal on the road etc, also there have been many a motorcyclist killed because of a car driver saying "I didn't see the bike" - that is a fact, not a statistic.
Not all motorcyclists speed and most show greater awareness of their surroundings, unlike most car drivers.
I'm biking 30 years this year, I also cycle and drive a car, my opinion is car drivers are easily the worst drivers and the most dangerous on the road.
re: the RSA, yes slow down and take care but this needs to be directed to all road users in a single advert instead of just bikers.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 11:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

You do encounter many bikers. You just don't see most of them, like the majority of car drivers.

I'm pretty sure I observe other road users and notice other motorised traffic - I think your comment is symptomatic of the kind of attitude that the RSA is looking to change - the culpability or part culpability (i.e. within the control of motorcyclists) for fatalities of motorcyclist is 86% of all fatalities. Your comment suggests a mindset of victimhood rather than recognising vulnerability.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 11:59am

di11on wrote: »

I agree that targeting the speeding issue simplifies the causes of motorcycle accidents in the minds of other road users. A lot of in-depth research has been carried out. It is quite well summarised in this wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety

I have looked into the referenced MAIDS study myself a good bit and the information is there for everyone to read regarding the causes and contributory factors in motorcycle accidents.

Here are some interesting statistics from the MAIDS study

- 60% of accidents involved a collision with another vehicle (OA), usually a car
- 69% of the OV [other vehicle] drivers attempted no collision avoidance manoeuvre, suggesting they did not see the motorcycle.

This says that over 40% of motorcycle accidents are caused by a car driver not seeing the motorcycle.

Interestingly, the MAIDS study also showed that car drivers who also had a motorcycle license were less likely to commit a perception error. Basically, car drivers generally aren't looking for a bike - but if they were, they would see them.

so US and UK reports and studies suit you better than RSA reports referring to Irish collisions. At least RSA is not biased and didn't commission reports to suit lobby groups

listermint · 20-04-2021 12:14pm

mamax wrote: »

I would say a % of those statistics from the RSA are a guess, the riders that died from a motorcycle crash were not able to give their side of the story afterwards so it would be presumed excessive speed was the cause, not a pothole or an animal on the road etc, also there have been many a motorcyclist killed because of a car driver saying "I didn't see the bike" - that is a fact, not a statistic.
Not all motorcyclists speed and most show greater awareness of their surroundings, unlike most car drivers.
I'm biking 30 years this year, I also cycle and drive a car, my opinion is car drivers are easily the worst drivers and the most dangerous on the road.
re: the RSA, yes slow down and take care but this needs to be directed to all road users in a single advert instead of just bikers.

Bingo !!

GBX · 20-04-2021 12:33pm

@carhead - You're seem determined to have people bow down to all things RSA and motorcyclists are at fault for dying no matter what the circumstances.

Yes bikers speed - nobody is denying that. But its some not all, again like all road user groups. "Slow down or you could die" - that's the message the RSA is throwing out there by your reckoning.
There are many dangers on the roads, speeding is one and not just bikers speeding. Everyone else, mobile phone distractions etc.
But come down off your high horse. By your thinking of bikers speed or they don't. No in between.
"I'm pretty sure I see other road users" - You either do or you don't see them - no in between? Make your mind up. You've never been distracted by a radio or phone in your car/van/bus or whatever you drive? Do you travel only up to 120 km h on a motorway and never go over that to over take because you might die? Because spouting your bikers speed and die message is tiresome.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 12:37pm

mamax wrote: »

I would say a % of those statistics from the RSA are a guess, the riders that died from a motorcycle crash were not able to give their side of the story afterwards so it would be presumed excessive speed was the cause, not a pothole or an animal on the road etc, also there have been many a motorcyclist killed because of a car driver saying "I didn't see the bike" - that is a fact, not a statistic.
Not all motorcyclists speed and most show greater awareness of their surroundings, unlike most car drivers.
I'm biking 30 years this year, I also cycle and drive a car, my opinion is car drivers are easily the worst drivers and the most dangerous on the road.
re: the RSA, yes slow down and take care but this needs to be directed to all road users in a single advert instead of just bikers.

But who are the most dangerous road users for motorcyclists - the answer in 86% of fatalities is themselves. I think a general campaign aimed at all road users would do a disservice to this vulnerable group.
Your own opinion on who you think are the most dangerous on the road is only that, your opinion - you make your assertion as fact and it has triggered poor listermint who thinks he's at a game of bingo, bless him!

listermint · 20-04-2021 12:41pm

carfinder wrote: »

But who are the most dangerous road users for motorcyclists - the answer in 86% of fatalities is themselves. I think a general campaign aimed at all road users would do a disservice to this vulnerable group.
Your own opinion on who you think are the most dangerous on the road is only that, your opinion - you make your assertion as fact and it has triggered poor listermint who thinks he's at a game of bingo, bless him!

Awe car finder you simple simple lad

People not looking and driving out in front of bikes is the biggest accident cause. Could a motorcyclist drive ultra slow to perhaps bring that risk down. Yes. Yes of course.

Does that absolve a car driver from absolutely poor driving judgement and assessment and being the cause.

I'm afraid it doesn't.

But sure look , your an oul twister . Twist away

Jimmy Bottlehead · 20-04-2021 12:41pm

carfinder wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I observe other road users and notice other motorised traffic - I think your comment is symptomatic of the kind of attitude that the RSA is looking to change - the culpability or part culpability (i.e. within the control of motorcyclists) for fatalities of motorcyclist is 86% of all fatalities. Your comment suggests a mindset of victimhood rather than recognising vulnerability.

I don't see what you are hoping to achieve posting antagonistically here. I'm all for debate but there's been very little reaching across the bridge from you so far. Just patronising. Rather than persuading anybody, you're just grating.

Back on topic, I'd agree with the earlier poster(s) regarding how poor the standard of car driving is in general. It's piss poor. It is actually noteworthy when I encounter GOOD driving, correct lane position, good use of indicators, intelligent merging, etc. I have actually wished I could give another driver a pat on the back or a 'thank you' for driving well.

Yes there are some bikers who drive like arseholes, but that's no different to car drivers who drive like arseholes, except more of the car drivers will walk away from their crap and aggressive driving. No campaign is likely to slow those folks down, nor make them drive with more caution.
As noted, the far more common danger from your bog standard biker is other driver and their lack of skill. It's genuinely shocking.

I've definitely noticed my own driving skills improving since becoming a biker. Ironically, I'm more risk averse these days. I think people at large would see a similar improvement if they had to do a mandatory spell on a scooter or motorbike. You cannot teach the sense of vulnerability it imparts, but you would hope the experience would stick.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 12:46pm

listermint wrote: »

Awe car finder you simple simple lad

People not looking and driving out in front of bikes is the biggest accident cause. Could a motorcyclist drive ultra slow to perhaps bring that risk down. Yes. Yes of course.

Does that absolve a car driver from absolutely poor driving judgement and assessment and being the cause.

I'm afraid it doesn't.

But sure look , your an oul twister . Twist away

And you will keep making personal insults no doubt!
And making unproven assertions which are not supported by the statistics. You seem to be offended by the facts but facts don't care about your feelings

listermint · 20-04-2021 12:48pm

carfinder wrote: »

And you will keep making personal insults no doubt!
And making unproven assertions which are not supported by the statistics. You seem to be offended by the facts but facts don't care about your feelings

Il quote your condescending words.

'bless him'

So if youd rather not be insulted don't dish it out first.

But sure look it seems awareness is not your strong point

GBX · 20-04-2021 12:49pm

carfinder wrote: »

But who are the most dangerous road users for motorcyclists - the answer in 86% of fatalities is themselves. I think a general campaign aimed at all road users would do a disservice to this vulnerable group.
Your own opinion on who you think are the most dangerous on the road is only that, your opinion - you make your assertion as fact and it has triggered poor listermint who thinks he's at a game of bingo, bless him!

Take your patronising agenda elsewhere.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 1:03pm

listermint wrote: »

Il quote your condescending words.

'bless him'

So if youd rather not be insulted don't dish it out first.

But sure look it seems awareness is not your strong point

I don't mind the insults at all, but I will call you out on them anyways and it doesn't show you in a good light. You seem to have a problem accepting facts. I guess the RSA campaign has much to do!
I think the RSA should also highlight the concentration of fatalities at the weekend and the social aspect of the journeys. I hate that anyone loses their life on our roads and it is extremely disappointing to encounter your mindset as articulated so far!

lalababa · 20-04-2021 1:06pm

My tupence: Some car drivers see bikers but don't comprehend them, some don't see them at all. ALOT of cnuts are looking at their phones/distracted by something.
Some bikers exceed the speed limits. Some go faster than the traffic flow.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 20-04-2021 1:08pm

carfinder wrote: »

I don't mind the insults at all, but I will call you out on them anyways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqZY2zatqDg

carfinder · 20-04-2021 1:24pm

:D not all hero's wear capes - Jimmy the bottle head rides in to dodge to rescue listermint and GBX:D:D

di11on · 20-04-2021 1:27pm

carfinder wrote: »

so US and UK reports and studies suit you better than RSA reports referring to Irish collisions. At least RSA is not biased and didn't commission reports to suit lobby groups

The RSA stats you are quoting are literally only telling half the story, i.e. 50%. The stats I have quoted are providing some insight into the other causes. MAIDS was an EU study which examined in huge detail, accidents in France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain and Italy.

mamax · 20-04-2021 2:07pm

carfinder wrote: »

But who are the most dangerous road users for motorcyclists - the answer in 86% of fatalities is themselves. I think a general campaign aimed at all road users would do a disservice to this vulnerable group.
Your own opinion on who you think are the most dangerous on the road is only that, your opinion - you make your assertion as fact and it has triggered poor listermint who thinks he's at a game of bingo, bless him!

Any experienced rider will tell you that data is flawed.
Just curious but how many years cycling, driving a vehicle, riding a motorcycle have you? any advanced driving/motorcycling courses done? because if your argument is based solely on stats from the RSA then you are so so wrong.
What we "know" from the stats is that people died, but they don't tell us about the circumstances of each death or cars that pull out in front of bikes leaving the rider not enough time to stop, or the farmer who spills slurry, or the oil truck that spills diesel which is hard to see on the road especially if it's wet and so on.
Yes it's my own opinion and based on 30 years of motoring knowledge and experience, you unfortunately cannot seem to process how motorcyclists think and use their experience.

zubair · 20-04-2021 3:03pm

Srsly, this lad!

carfinder · 20-04-2021 3:10pm

mamax wrote: »

Any experienced rider will tell you that data is flawed.
Just curious but how many years cycling, driving a vehicle, riding a motorcycle have you? any advanced driving/motorcycling courses done? because if your argument is based solely on stats from the RSA then you are so so wrong.
What we "know" from the stats is that people died, but they don't tell us about the circumstances of each death or cars that pull out in front of bikes leaving the rider not enough time to stop, or the farmer who spills slurry, or the oil truck that spills diesel which is hard to see on the road especially if it's wet and so on.
Yes it's my own opinion and based on 30 years of motoring knowledge and experience, you unfortunately cannot seem to process how motorcyclists think and use their experience.

Did you read the report I'm referring to? It collated the detailed reports on all the fatalities and is therefore very informative and accurate. I also have 30 years motoring experience and, so far, no collisions (touch wood) so lived experience is all well and good but the statistics, collating data from detailed reports on the fatalities is superior to enecdotes and perceptions.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 3:11pm

zubair wrote: »

Srsly, this lad!

who? Mamax? yeah he's a serious dude alright:D

zubair · 20-04-2021 3:12pm

carfinder wrote: »

Did you read the report I'm referring to? It collated the detailed reports on all the fatalities and is therefore very informative and accurate. I also have 30 years motoring experience and, so far, no collisions (touch wood) so lived experience is all well and good but the statistics, collating data from detailed reports on the fatalities is superior to enecdotes and perceptions.

Lad, your input on this thread (and forum) really isn't welcome, in case you can't tell, so kindly drop it.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 3:19pm

zubair wrote: »

Lad, your input on this thread (and forum) really isn't welcome, in case you can't tell, so kindly drop it.

My post was to Mamax, not you, so your response is unwarranted and unwelcome - so kindly drop it

mamax · 20-04-2021 4:45pm

carfinder wrote: »

Did you read the report I'm referring to? It collated the detailed reports on all the fatalities and is therefore very informative and accurate. I also have 30 years motoring experience and, so far, no collisions (touch wood) so lived experience is all well and good but the statistics, collating data from detailed reports on the fatalities is superior to enecdotes and perceptions.

Are you a motorcyclist?

Breezin · 20-04-2021 5:11pm

I pressed the ignore button on the Cartroll way back in this thread, but I can see he is still on a blatant short throttle wind-up of this forum.

I can't believe mods haven't acted.

carfinder · 20-04-2021 8:57pm

Breezin wrote: »

I pressed the ignore button on the Cartroll way back in this thread, but I can see he is still on a blatant short throttle wind-up of this forum.

I can't believe mods haven't acted.

On the ignore list but not ignored :eek::D:pac::cool:

GBX · 20-04-2021 9:11pm

Still ignoring questions .. are you a biker or did you just want to wade in with stats about deaths on the road involving bikers?

CHESSMUTANT · 21-04-2021 7:12pm

GBX wrote: »

Still ignoring questions .. are you a biker or did you just want to wade in with stats about deaths on the road involving bikers?

Don't bother. He's just a walloper, sitting at home on his own, rubbing one out and crying.

carfinder · 22-04-2021 6:43am

GBX wrote: »

Still ignoring questions .. are you a biker or did you just want to wade in with stats about deaths on the road involving bikers?

Apologies I haven't visited for a few days I've been busy reading that RSA report. Its very thorough and scientific and runs counter to the whataboutery and blame dodging narrative that some seem to be clinging to. Did you read it?

knucklehead6 · 22-04-2021 7:08am

carfinder wrote: »

Apologies I haven't visited for a few days I've been busy reading that RSA report. Its very thorough and scientific and runs counter to the whataboutery and blame dodging narrative that some seem to be clinging to. Did you read it?

You may have some valid points, but they’re lost in the general sneering tone of your posts. You are coming across as gloating about people being killed.

I’m not a mod but you’d probably get a lot more traction and engagement if you weren’t coming across as gleefully cheering the death of any biker.

rock22 · 22-04-2021 7:52am

carfinder wrote: »

Apologies I haven't visited for a few days I've been busy reading that RSA report. Its very thorough and scientific and runs counter to the whataboutery and blame dodging narrative that some seem to be clinging to. Did you read it?

I have read it. It seems incomplete in it's analysis . for instance it breaks down deaths and accidents by age of rider but doesn't relate that to the general age profile of all riders so it is impossible to determine if a certain age has a higher or lower profile in accidents. the report is full of this type of omission.

It looks to me like someone who has discovered excel for the first time and is impressed at how easy it is to calculate percentages.

That is not to take from the wider point that motorcyclist need to be much more vigilant on the road and allow for the all the car drivers out to kill them, And that often means moderating speed.

di11on · 22-04-2021 3:39pm

On a slightly different note - I came across a group of cyclists today - 4-abreast the other side of a blind bend... Christ almighty... if I was a car it would have been one tangled mess I can tell you.

spiggotpaddy · 22-04-2021 3:53pm

Had a chap today frantically waving a slow down arm as he was stopped to make a right turn into a garden. A quick look at the speedo showed me at 60 in an 80 zone.
There's a lot of assumptions about. He assumed I was 'flying it'
I assumed he was a fcuking moron.

carfinder · 22-04-2021 3:56pm

rock22 wrote: »

I have read it. It seems incomplete in it's analysis . for instance it breaks down deaths and accidents by age of rider but doesn't relate that to the general age profile of all riders so it is impossible to determine if a certain age has a higher or lower profile in accidents. the report is full of this type of omission.

It looks to me like someone who has discovered excel for the first time and is impressed at how easy it is to calculate percentages.

That is not to take from the wider point that motorcyclist need to be much more vigilant on the road and allow for the all the car drivers out to kill them, And that often means moderating speed.

Maybe the RSA should change tack and advise all the homicidal car drivers to stop trying to kill bikers given that in 86% of fatalities, the biker themselves was culpable/part culpable

GBX · 22-04-2021 4:23pm

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

Had a chap today frantically waving a slow down arm as he was stopped to make a right turn into a garden. A quick look at the speedo showed me at 60 in an 80 zone.
There's a lot of assumptions about. He assumed I was 'flying it'
I assumed he was a fcuking moron.

Yeah there's a lot of morons around the place.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 22-04-2021 5:04pm

GBX wrote: »

Yeah there's a lot of morons around the place.

The worst are the ones who don't even realise it.

frozenfrozen · 22-04-2021 5:41pm

those "you were flying it" crowd are the same for everything not even just bikes. Can also be seen beeping and flashing anyone who overtakes them on a perfectly straight N road. As anyone going over the 60km/h that their shaking shit heap vehicle is doing must also be experiencing the same near death experience every time they attempt to do the speed limit...

carfinder · 23-04-2021 7:07am

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

The worst are the ones who don't even realise it.

Especially when they are projecting, and don't even realise it:pac:

iwillhtfu · 25-04-2021 1:04pm

Another two gone too soon. RIP

No need to comment carfinder

https://www.thejournal.ie/motorcycle-crash-cavan-galway-5419629-Apr2021/?fbclid=IwAR1YaKy9mSbcEdLqwOyi3mG0IuCY6f0fpygeuEMLpco4VuHI4LSQtx-HQeM

Take it handy lads...

Comments