Take it handy lads...

Max Headroom

..be extra careful out there , lot of drivers on the roads again and theyre not looking out for bikes...its like they havent seen sheep or hills before..;)

Jimmy Bottlehead

Yep. Two lads killed off bikes yesterday. I saw a lot of bikes on the roads. Scary to think two lads left the house for a spin, and will never come back.

Breezin

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Yep. Two lads killed off bikes yesterday. I saw a lot of bikes on the roads. Scary to think two lads left the house for a spin, and will never come back.

Yes, and two more killed earlier in the week, I believe. RIP.

RSA running ads telling bikers to slow down, and it's hard to argue with that, but what are they doing about the other causes?

Jimmy Bottlehead

Breezin wrote: »

Yes, and two more killed earlier in the week, I believe. RIP.

RSA running ads telling bikers to slow down, and it's hard to argue with that, but what are they doing about the other causes?

Nothing, cos it's assumed motorbike = fast.

And its simple things they could run campaigns on that would make a difference. Keeping dimmed lights on all the time, to improve visibility. Extra checks at junctions. Lowering speed is fine, but there's so so many other dangers we see every day that have nothing to do with speed.

iwillhtfu

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Nothing, cos it's assumed motorbike = fast.

And its simple things they could run campaigns on that would make a difference. Keeping dimmed lights on all the time, to improve visibility. Extra checks at junctions. Lowering speed is fine, but there's so so many other dangers we see every day that have nothing to do with speed.

I know one of the lads collided with a roundabout so it's a fair assumption but one certainly doesn't supersede the other.

zubair

The point of the slow down campaign is not about the cause but the difference between surviving an accident and not.

flashinthepan

Breezin wrote: »

Yes, and two more killed earlier in the week, I believe. RIP.

RSA running ads telling bikers to slow down, and it's hard to argue with that, but what are they doing about the other causes?

RSA might do well to direct an ad at the county councils to fix the roads they are in absolute ****e at the moment
not potholes but craters added to the additional danger of the building sites coming back
There are 3 sites within 500 yards of my gaff that are just spewing sh1te all over the roads
I have made complaints to Wicklow co co and i might as well complain to the
ff'ing dog
It is one thing to come across some loose stone / gravel in a car where you have 4 wheels in contact with the ground
But when you have only 2 it is a recipe for disaster
But the truth is that while the council are more than happy to take money for road tax the assumption is that sure it is a motorbike he must have been flying along

omerin

First of all rest in peace to the 2 people that passed away and the others who have died this year, it's way too many for such a small biking community.
Having returned to biking late last year I had forgotten how bad our roads are. Driving a car doesn't give you a full appreciation of how bad our roads are as having 4 wheels and great suspension can hide a multitude of poorly constructed, poorly maintained and poorly designed roads. If i looked after my bike like the government looks after the roads I'd be in front of a judge for endangering mine and other lives.
The ****ing EU are quick to jump on countries who don't follow EU guidelines for mickey mouse things, see recent complaint made about quarantining in hotels, but turn a blind eye when a government is culpable in the deaths of motorist, motorcyclist and pedistrians. Our 2 previous transport ministers, which if you didn't know are also looking after climate, environment and communications were and are useless, Lord Ross was so incompetent it was scary and Eamon Ryan, dear god where do you start, has a conflict of interest looking after climate and has no real interest improving roads.
And don't get me started on charging VAT on bike safety equipment. It might be less painful if they set aside the VAT contribution from motorcyclists for free refresher courses in March for all motorcyclists

listermint

flashinthepan wrote: »

RSA might do well to direct an ad at the county councils to fix the roads they are in absolute ****e at the moment
not potholes but craters added to the additional danger of the building sites coming back
There are 3 sites within 500 yards of my gaff that are just spewing sh1te all over the roads
I have made complaints to Wicklow co co and i might as well complain to the
ff'ing dog
It is one thing to come across some loose stone / gravel in a car where you have 4 wheels in contact with the ground
But when you have only 2 it is a recipe for disaster
But the truth is that while the council are more than happy to take money for road tax the assumption is that sure it is a motorbike he must have been flying along

Wicklow co co are big fans of the stone chipping and bonder resurface. Had a big argument with an engineer where they tore up some flat tarmac about 1k stretch that needed some corrective surface repairs and put in chipped stone and bonding. He was telling me how much safer it was and grippy.

Two accidents in a month of it going down.


And I've just gone down myself to shift off half a ton of loose stone from our junction which is on a bend because there was mountain of loose chippings which you literally had to drive up and down on to get up our road.

Cost effective I think is the term they use,.........

frozenfrozen

I dont like their sometimes you have to do as you are told campaign. Its victim blaming. Unless its a single vehicle collision caused solely by speed (there are of course these types of crashes) its usually a smidsy type crash with someone else just ****ing murdering someone because they didn't look or look as they are driving out.

How many times does a bike have to be side swiped at or above the limit before they start telling drivers to do as they are told and make observations before pulling out and stop blaming the bike for existing

Whatever about a bike speeding, it could be a garda motorcyclist legally going fast so they should be looking out for that. If we had the motorbike guards going around and giving points for people pulling into their path it might do something but they send them off to sit on slip roads to catch people doing 120 on a 100 road a few hundred metres after the speed change. Waste of time in terms of safety.

Do be safe out there at the moment in general a lot of people haven't really driven much for the last year and they are out again so the standard is maybe worse than before even.

flashinthepan

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Yep. Two lads killed off bikes yesterday. I saw a lot of bikes on the roads. Scary to think two lads left the house for a spin, and will never come back.

Very sad
All someone's father / brother / son / uncle
Scary alright to think you might not come back
My condolences to the family's of these poor guys

carfinder

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I dont like their sometimes you have to do as you are told campaign. Its victim blaming. Unless its a single vehicle collision caused solely by speed (there are of course these types of crashes) its usually a smidsy type crash with someone else just ****ing murdering someone because they didn't look or look as they are driving out.

How many times does a bike have to be side swiped at or above the limit before they start telling drivers to do as they are told and make observations before pulling out and stop blaming the bike for existing

Whatever about a bike speeding, it could be a garda motorcyclist legally going fast so they should be looking out for that. If we had the motorbike guards going around and giving points for people pulling into their path it might do something but they send them off to sit on slip roads to catch people doing 120 on a 100 road a few hundred metres after the speed change. Waste of time in terms of safety.

Do be safe out there at the moment in general a lot of people haven't really driven much for the last year and they are out again so the standard is maybe worse than before even.

That sounds an awful lot like condoning speeding and expecting car drivers to be mindful of speeding biker because it could be a garda speeding. I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding. I wonder how many drivers observations and reactions would be perfectly fine if they encountered bikers obeying speed limits?

flashinthepan

carfinder wrote: »

That sounds an awful lot like condoning speeding and expecting car drivers to be mindful of speeding biker because it could be a garda speeding. I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding. I wonder how many drivers observations and reactions would be perfectly fine if they encountered bikers obeying speed limits?

Well from one biker to a motorist
I don't speed not on a bike or in a car

Not only do Gardai use bikes but also ambulance paramedics and blood bikes

If I were to make a compilation of the helmet cam footage of people in cars on the phone or doing their make up or taking photos of their bald head with the camera or picking bogers you would be amazed ' truly
When was the last time you seen a motorcyclist riding along with a phone to their ear ?

The sad truth is that there is a general assumption that because it is a motorbike they must have been flying along because they were moving and you were sitting in a traffic jam
But with smaller more discreet helmet cameras that assumption will be put to rest

carfinder

flashinthepan wrote: »

Well from one biker to a motorist
I don't speed not on a bike or in a car

Not only do Gardai use bikes but also ambulance paramedics and blood bikes

If I were to make a compilation of the helmet cam footage of people in cars on the phone or doing their make up or taking photos of their bald head with the camera or picking bogers you would be amazed ' truly
When was the last time you seen a motorcyclist riding along with a phone to their ear ?

The sad truth is that there is a general assumption that because it is a motorbike they must have been flying along because they were moving and you were sitting in a traffic jam
But with smaller more discreet helmet cameras that assumption will be put to rest

What do you assume the cause of the fatal collision with the roundabout - I don't think the roundabout was distracted or had a phone to its ear ...

dmigsy

carfinder wrote: »

That sounds an awful lot like condoning speeding and expecting car drivers to be mindful of speeding biker because it could be a garda speeding. I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding. I wonder how many drivers observations and reactions would be perfectly fine if they encountered bikers obeying speed limits?

You must have a great old speed gun to catch all these speeding bikers you come across? Do you sit on the side of the road with it or does it work from your moving car? Your truly scientific and statistically significant series of observations has really convinced me that all bikers must usually speed.

You also seem a wonderful character to come onto a thread warning fellow bikers to be careful on the roads and about two poor lads dying on the road, trying to blame motorcyclists for causing accidents. I drive a car and am a biker too so which side should I pick? I also cycle sometimes and am a frequent pedestrian if that helps you decide which side I'm on? What's the prize for winning the argument?

Maybe everyone should just try to be conscientious on the road and we all try to keep everyone alive, yeah?

flashinthepan

carfinder wrote: »

What do you assume the cause of the fatal collision with the roundabout - I don't think the roundabout was distracted or had a phone to its ear ...

I think maybe you should go shill somewhere else
your a bit of an insensitive ass really
Goodbye

zubair

carfinder wrote: »

That sounds an awful lot like condoning speeding and expecting car drivers to be mindful of speeding biker because it could be a garda speeding. I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding. I wonder how many drivers observations and reactions would be perfectly fine if they encountered bikers obeying speed limits?

carfinder wrote: »

What do you assume the cause of the fatal collision with the roundabout - I don't think the roundabout was distracted or had a phone to its ear ...

Get lost.

Thelonious Monk

It's funny how people are commenting on news reports of this telling people on motorbikes to slow down. You never see anything but RIP and thoughts and prayers when there are car deaths - never does anyone say stop speeding, get off your phone, etc. Every car driver breaks the speed limit at times.

CHESSMUTANT

carfinder wrote: »

That sounds an awful lot like condoning speeding and expecting car drivers to be mindful of speeding biker because it could be a garda speeding. I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding. I wonder how many drivers observations and reactions would be perfectly fine if they encountered bikers obeying speed limits?

carfinder wrote: »

What do you assume the cause of the fatal collision with the roundabout - I don't think the roundabout was distracted or had a phone to its ear ...

FFS dude, read the room. :rolleyes:

Nozebleed

took a spin to glendalough saturday...and i was absolutely fuming at the numer of cars who refused to overtake cyclists on wide open roads..it was ridiculous

now i wasn't speeding like mad..but on a few occasions i had to brake fairly hard approaching a queue of cars lined up behind a cyclist/group...must have happened 5 times over a 2 hour spin. and this was leaving blessington on the n81 heading in the direction of tallght. i just cant undertand cars slowing down to match the speed of the cyclists before taking an age to make the manouver.

Breezin

carfinder wrote: »

What do you assume the cause of the fatal collision with the roundabout - I don't think the roundabout was distracted or had a phone to its ear ...

Unbelievable that anyone would adopt such a smirky, disrespectful tone in relation to this event in trying to make political capital out of a fatal accident.

Really, how low can you go?

carfinder

dmigsy wrote: »

You must have a great old speed gun to catch all these speeding bikers you come across? Do you sit on the side of the road with it or does it work from your moving car? Your truly scientific and statistically significant series of observations has really convinced me that all bikers must usually speed.

You also seem a wonderful character to come onto a thread warning fellow bikers to be careful on the roads and about two poor lads dying on the road, trying to blame motorcyclists for causing accidents. I drive a car and am a biker too so which side should I pick? I also cycle sometimes and am a frequent pedestrian if that helps you decide which side I'm on? What's the prize for winning the argument?

Maybe everyone should just try to be conscientious on the road and we all try to keep everyone alive, yeah?

I didn't attempt to present my anecdoctal evidence as anything other than that - my lived experience. Though looking down at my speedometer stating I'm travelling at 120kph on a motorway and being overtaken by a biker going considerably faster than me and "leaving me for dust" always feels like I've just witnessed a speeder to be fair.

If you are looking for a statistical analysis then RSA is your friend - they state that HALF of all biker fatalities are caused by bikers speeding - pretty bleak statistic. I would echo the RSA message, slowing down would keep more biker alive, unless of course, you've an agenda and want to concentrate on all the other reasons for fatalities and ignore the biggest cause?

Breezin

Here's a nice simple video for any dope who is of the opinion that motorists don't have responsibility in biker fatalities.

Edit: I very nearly had number three on Saturday. He even looked like that chap!

https://youtu.be/to_UaN25B8s


Found it on a new Facebook group set up to challenge the assumptions around this issue.

GBX

carfinder wrote: »

I didn't attempt to present my anecdoctal evidence as anything other than that - my lived experience. Though looking down at my speedometer stating I'm travelling at 120kph on a motorway and being overtaken by a biker going considerably faster than me and "leaving me for dust" always feels like I've just witnessed a speeder to be fair.

If you are looking for a statistical analysis then RSA is your friend - they state that HALF of all biker fatalities are caused by bikers speeding - pretty bleak statistic. I would echo the RSA message, slowing down would keep more biker alive, unless of course, you've an agenda and want to concentrate on all the other reasons for fatalities and ignore the biggest cause?

carfinder wrote:

I dont encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding.

And how many other road users sped by you? Or are you just slow.

Everytime you travel the motorway you get overtaken by each and every bike that speeds ? yeah - unlikely. You've always obeyed the speed limit? Your "evidence of looking down at the speedo and seeing one go by you" doesn't wash.


As for the RSA - bleak statistic yeah - as are many other RSA stats - but does it tell the whole tale of a crash? other road user behaviour? Or road surface conditions: oil, diesel on the road, farmer shíte left on the road - There are a lot of mitigating factors. But its always painted to be "biker died from speeding". Its rare that a biker has died on a motorway. More so from speeding on a motorway.

Have you been included in any RSA stats? Which road group do you belong to? The whiter than white? Or did you just waddle in to the bike forum to spread your dislike of bikes because you got overtaken.

carfinder

Breezin wrote: »

Here's a nice simple video for any dope who is of the opinion that motorists don't have responsibility in biker fatalities.

Edit: I very nearly had number three on Saturday. He even looked like that chap!

https://youtu.be/to_UaN25B8s


Found it on a new Facebook group set up to challenge the assumptions around this issue.

the headline message on that ad from NOI is at odds with the situation in ROI.
I don't think anyone is expressing an opinion that motorists are not responsible for some biker fatalities (so you are setting a strawman argument). The RSA is clearly stating that in Republic Of Ireland, HALF of all biker fatalities are down to bikers speeding. Tackle the main cause, in that order of priority - The RSA media campaign is calibrated sensibly in my opinion.

Breezin

carfinder wrote: »

the headline message on that ad from NOI is at odds with the situation in ROI.
I don't think anyone is expressing an opinion that motorists are not responsible for some biker fatalities (so you are setting a strawman argument). The RSA is clearly stating that in Republic Of Ireland, HALF of all biker fatalities are down to bikers speeding. Tackle the main cause, in that order of priority - The RSA media campaign is calibrated sensibly in my opinion.

It took you quite a few posts, one of them quite disgusting, to acknowledge that.

The RSA's sole focus on biker speed carries the clear implication that others have no role to play, which is a literally lethal position to take.

They don't seem to understand, or perhaps even care, what message they are sending out. Preaching at bikers is playing to the gallery, so there's that.

carfinder

GBX wrote: »

And how many other road users sped by you? Or are you just slow.

Maybe read my post again where I state I'm doing 120kph, the legal maximum for the road. For you to query whether this is slow is very telling - your mindset and that of other speeding bikers, is what needs to change.

GBX wrote: »

Everytime you travel the motorway you get overtaken by each and every bike that speeds ? yeah - unlikely.

I didnt say that - strawman much???

GBX wrote: »

As for the RSA - bleak statistic yeah - as are many other RSA stats - but does it tell the whole tale of a crash? other road user behaviour? Or road surface conditions: oil, diesel on the road, farmer shíte left on the road - There are a lot of mitigating factors. But its always painted to be "biker died from speeding". Its rare that a biker has died on a motorway. More so from speeding on a motorway.

I have no idea - perhaps raise your query with the RSA - would seem like the logical approach!

carfinder

Breezin wrote: »

It took you quite a few posts, one of them quite disgusting, to acknowledge that.

The RSA's sole focus on biker speed carries the clear implication that others have no role to play, which is a literally lethal position to take.

They don't seem to understand, or perhaps even care, what message they are sending out. Preaching as bikers is playing to the gallery, so there's that.

Actually basic logic (in short supply it seems) suggests that if biker speed is responsible for HALF of biker fatalities (as the RSA states), but is one of a number of causes, it is the LEADING, but not the only, cause of biker fatalities.
I'm glad the RSA is focussing their limited resources on the leading cause and I hope it is effective in persuading bikers to slow down and reduce the number of biker fatalities

GBX

carfinder wrote: »

Maybe read my post again where I state I'm doing 120kph, the legal maximum for the road. For you to query whether this is slow is very telling - your mindset and that of other speeding bikers, is what needs to change.


I didnt say that - strawman much??? Your comment - "I don't encounter many bikers but when I do, they're usually speeding" Usually? Nice generalisation or have you evidence to support the "usual" bikers who speed by you when you use the motorway.


I have no idea - perhaps raise your query with the RSA - would seem like the logical approach!

I've raised my concerns with the RSA and Department of Transport. Long before this week. As a vulnerable road group we have many concerns.

My mindset is fine. No problem admitting there are bikers who speed. Same as all other road user groups. But lets not cloud your judgement as anti biker.

zubair

carfinder

GBX wrote: »

I've raised my concerns with the RSA and Department of Transport. Long before this week. As a vulnerable road group we have many concerns.

My mindset is fine. No problem admitting there are bikers who speed. Same as all other road user groups. But lets not cloud your judgement as anti biker.

You have concerns that RSA are focussing on the leading cause of biker fatalities - you clearly have a troubling mindset. The only way to effect change is to get bikers to recognise the problem - no ifs, buts, maybes or whataboutery - clearly the RSA has their work cut out to get through to people with mindsets like yours!

D3V!L

carfinder wrote: »

You have concerns that RSA are focussing on the leading cause of biker fatalities - you clearly have a troubling mindset. The only way to effect change is to get bikers to recognise the problem - no ifs, buts, maybes or whataboutery - clearly the RSA has their work cut out to get through to people with mindsets like yours!

Would you say speed was a factor when myself and my wife were out for a spin on Saturday? A van, the driver on the phone was on the wrong side of the road and narrowly missed her. Was it my wife's speed that was a factor ?

On another occasion, we were driving along and a little old lady pulled out from a driveway, looked the opposite way up the road and not at oncoming traffic. Decided to pull out in front of us. Who was at fault here ? Was it speed ?

Paddigol

carfinder wrote: »

You have concerns that RSA are focussing on the leading cause of biker fatalities - you clearly have a troubling mindset. The only way to effect change is to get bikers to recognise the problem - no ifs, buts, maybes or whataboutery - clearly the RSA has their work cut out to get through to people with mindsets like yours!

Car drivers are the leading cause of road user fatalities, be they fellow car drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists or pedestrians. But the howls of anguish anytime someone suggests that car drivers should be subjected to more scrutiny is deafening. Cyclist wasn't wearing hi viz. Motorcyclist was speeding. Pedestrian shouldn't have been on the road. Sun was in my eyes, what can ya do. That car-first mindset (see https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058178678 for examples of casual "yeah but I'm driving my car and that's all that matters" ignorance)
manages to get pedestrianised streets cancelled, cycling infrastructure cancelled and public transport initiatives cancelled).

This wasn't a general thread about the dangers of motorbiking. It was prompted by the death of two people and a note to take care. Why you felt the need to pop in ("but it's my right/ its a public forum / free speech/ wokism blah blah blah") to troll is beyond me and shows that the troubling mindset is very much yours.

GBX

carfinder wrote: »

You have concerns that RSA are focussing on the leading cause of biker fatalities - you clearly have a troubling mindset. The only way to effect change is to get bikers to recognise the problem - no ifs, buts, maybes or whataboutery - clearly the RSA has their work cut out to get through to people with mindsets like yours!

Jesus your hard work :rolleyes: I've contacted the RSA about my concerns with their statistics and other road issues. Not about bikers only. Twisting things make you feel good? My mindset is clear on one thing - you are in here to troll and nothing else. You dislike bikers and are stuck in that mindset.

carfinder

GBX wrote: »

Jesus your hard work :rolleyes: I've contacted the RSA about my concerns with their statistics and other road issues. Not about bikers only. Twisting things make you feel good? My mindset is clear on one thing - you are in here to troll and nothing else. You dislike bikers and are stuck in that mindset.

The forum is here for debate. Rather than debate the issues, such as what you believe to be wrong with the official statistics, you choose to play the man, not the ball - and the rallying cry of the desperate - troll calling. Your mindset is that the statistics are wrong and your own anecdotal evidence trumps the statistics. It is rather worrying that many of your fellow bikers on this forum appear to agree with you. The RSA has much work to do to get ye guys to change your mindsets and slow down!

carfinder

Paddigol wrote: »

Car drivers are the leading cause of road user fatalities, be they fellow car drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists or pedestrians.

Incorrect, The RSA statistics shows that speeding motorcyclists are the leading causef fatalities of motorcyclists. A troubling mindset of SOME motorcyclists on here appears to believe otherwise - hopefully the RSA campaign will persuade reasonable bikers to ignore the echo chamber and slow down

carfinder

D3V!L wrote: »

Would you say speed was a factor when myself and my wife were out for a spin on Saturday? A van, the driver on the phone was on the wrong side of the road and narrowly missed her. Was it my wife's speed that was a factor ?

On another occasion, we were driving along and a little old lady pulled out from a driveway, looked the opposite way up the road and not at oncoming traffic. Decided to pull out in front of us. Who was at fault here ? Was it speed ?

I have absolutely no idea, I wasn't there. Thankfully neither incident resulted in a fatality - my posts are related to fatalities and the independent data supplied by RSA

Breezin

Cartroller added to ignore list.

ratracer

Nozebleed wrote: »

took a spin to glendalough saturday...and i was absolutely fuming at the numer of cars who refused to overtake cyclists on wide open roads..it was ridiculous

now i wasn't speeding like mad..but on a few occasions i had to brake fairly hard approaching a queue of cars lined up behind a cyclist/group...must have happened 5 times over a 2 hour spin. and this was leaving blessington on the n81 heading in the direction of tallght. i just cant undertand cars slowing down to match the speed of the cyclists before taking an age to make the manouver.

That's entirely on your driving though...... If you have to continuously brake hard because you can't read traffic situations ahead of you, then a) you are driving too fast for the conditions in front of you, and b) you should probably work on that before you have an incident.

Stay safe!! Ride like everyone's out to get you, eyes wide open!

carfinder

Breezin wrote: »

Cartroller added to ignore list.

I presume you have the RSA there too :eek:

frozenfrozen

An analysis by the RSA of available Coronial Files data for 2013-2017 found that just over a third (34.6%) of motorcycle rider fatalities, with a record of their actions leading up to the collision, were exceeding a safe speed at the time of the collision.[Coronial Files data are provided to the RSA by the Health Research Board.]

please note the wording of safe speed at the time of the collision. This may have regard for road conditions such as adverse weather or poor road surface or visibility. Meaning less than 34.6% of motorbike fatalities are due to exceeding the speed limit.


I got this info from here

Unfortunately bike deaths don't control for things like suicides, drink/drugs, no helmet either. Which really shouldn't be lumped in with speed even if that's the vector for how they managed to die on a bike.. they're a bit different to overtaking a group of cars at above the limit then going back to the normal speed when you're in your own little car free bubble again. how a hell of a lot of bikes operate...

where is the half statistic from the RSA from does anyone have a link? Wouldn't mind reading the asterisk beside it to see whether it's 1/3rd or 1/2?

listermint

Sure don't you know if all those motorcyclist in that video had of been driving the standard 5kmph on the road like all vehicles no one would have been injured............
Sure it's obvious when you think about it that way like ...

https://youtu.be/to_UaN25B8s

zubair

Breezin wrote: »

Cartroller added to ignore list.

I'm with you.

Betsy Og

I read recently that the most prevalent crash is the T bone with the bike being the striking vehicle - so cars pulling out or turning across the path of bikes going in a straight line. There are loads of terrible drivers out there, all we can do is try to nudge the odds back a bit.

So nothing new in what I'm about to say but a) assume everyone is out to kill you, b) light on, c) high vis, d) road position to be seen/evasion, e) "presenting" (waving around a little bit) to cars who might not see you and be inclined to pull out, you make yourself more visible f) protective gear. As regards speed, it cuts time to think about doing a few of the above or the effectiveness of grabbing a load of brake (not that you'd want to do that, all things equal).

I'm inclined to blame drivers more than bikers, but we can only influence our own behaviour, so whether by right we should have to or not, I'm inclined to agree with the title of this thread.

CHESSMUTANT

carfinder wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea, I wasn't there. Thankfully neither incident resulted in a fatality - my posts are related to fatalities and the independent data supplied by RSA

Still showing your ass I see. :rolleyes:

frozenfrozen

Betsy Og wrote: »

I read recently that the most prevalent crash is the T bone with the bike being the striking vehicle - so cars pulling out or turning across the path of bikes going in a straight line. There are loads of terrible drivers out there, all we can do is try to nudge the odds back a bit.

So nothing new in what I'm about to say but a) assume everyone is out to kill you, b) light on, c) high vis, d) road position to be seen/evasion, e) "presenting" (waving around a little bit) to cars who might not see you and be inclined to pull out, you make yourself more visible f) protective gear. As regards speed, it cuts time to think about doing a few of the above or the effectiveness of grabbing a load of brake (not that you'd want to do that, all things equal).

I'm inclined to blame drivers more than bikers, but we can only influence our own behaviour, so whether by right we should have to or not, I'm inclined to agree with the title of this thread.

By all means people take it handy and make as much slack to absorb bad drivers actions but there's only so much you can do safely before someone else takes it out of your hands. Even if you stopped at some junctions instead of T boning you can easily be rear ended then

or hit by a head on vehicle going around the car which has come across your path or something on their side of the road.

@42 seconds or so. Ignore the rest of the video it's only the crash I am referencing

ED E

Ireland has a mind your own business culture but if you see a gob****e buried in their phone then call trafficwatch. Next time you could be making a human shaped imprint in their car door.

Some of the surveys indicate 60 odd % of drivers do it
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30940343.html

dmigsy

ED E wrote: »

Ireland has a mind your own business culture but if you see a gob****e buried in their phone then call trafficwatch. Next time you could be making a human shaped imprint in their car door.

Some of the surveys indicate 60 odd % of drivers do it
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30940343.html

Probably why carfinder doesn't spot all the motorcyclists who obey the speed limit. He's too busy on the wind-up on boards.ie to notice them.

carfinder

dmigsy wrote: »

Probably why carfinder doesn't spot all the motorcyclists who obey the speed limit. He's too busy on the wind-up on boards.ie to notice them.

Wow, the RSA really is running a "slow" campaign 🤣

Varik

frozenfrozen wrote: »

An analysis by the RSA of available Coronial Files data for 2013-2017 found that just over a third (34.6%) of motorcycle rider fatalities, with a record of their actions leading up to the collision, were exceeding a safe speed at the time of the collision.[Coronial Files data are provided to the RSA by the Health Research Board.]

please note the wording of safe speed at the time of the collision. This may have regard for road conditions such as adverse weather or poor road surface or visibility. Meaning less than 34.6% of motorbike fatalities are due to exceeding the speed limit.


I got this info from here

Unfortunately bike deaths don't control for things like suicides, drink/drugs, no helmet either. Which really shouldn't be lumped in with speed even if that's the vector for how they managed to die on a bike.. they're a bit different to overtaking a group of cars at above the limit then going back to the normal speed when you're in your own little car free bubble again. how a hell of a lot of bikes operate...

where is the half statistic from the RSA from does anyone have a link? Wouldn't mind reading the asterisk beside it to see whether it's 1/3rd or 1/2?

Not sure if it's what everyone was referencing as it could be different years and different reports with slightly different numbers rounded off to 1/2, but it's definitely in the that Pre-Crash report that part of the theory test now.

https://rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Motorcycle%20Safety/Pre-Crash%20Report%20on%20Fatal%20Motorcycle%20Collisions%202008-2012.pdf

raven41

Been biking over 30 years, started in my late teens. Commuted on bikes when carless for years and now have 2 weekend toys. There is a lot of whataboutery going on here. What about the state of the roads, car drivers on phones, incorrect stats from the rsa etc. I think anyone who regularly rides a bike is either fibbing or totally delusional to think that speed isnt a factor when it comes to biker accidents. A lot of defensive attitudes and finger pointing elsewhere which is kind of understandable in the wake of 7 or so poor souls losing their lives in recent weeks.
Not adopting a holier than thou attitude as I, like most regularly break the speed limits and yes the standard of driving (2 and 4 wheels) on Irish roads is absolutely appalling (due in large part to no proper policing ie you get away with it by and large).
As I see it, you ride to suit your environment, whether that be rain, fog or just the chance that someone WILL pull out on you in an urban area and adjust your speed accordingly.
In essence we are master of our destiny and it seems that some of us dont want to admit our own culpability in single vehicle accidents.