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Workplace recording

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  • 16-04-2021 1:57pm
    #1
    Polycom
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭


    One of my team members has lodged a complaint against my company. He mentions me in the complaint and stated that he didn't trust me, so recorded our conversations without my knowledge but I didn't say anything incriminating. As far as I know, there is nothing negative in the recordings. I don't have clarity of them being audio or video and not sure if they have been destroyed. The recordings have been while I'm working from him with my kids routinly on the video

    Is it legal to record people in this manner?


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    #2
    Dublin Lad2021
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Dublin Lad2021


    Hi OP,

    I'm not an expert on recording people, this might be better posted on legal discussion as it's more of a legal thing even though it happened in the workplace I get it.

    Anyways this article might help: www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/is-it-legal-to-record-someone-without-their-consent-1.3598275%3fmode=amp


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    #3
    1hnr79jr65
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    Legally one of the parties that is present needs to know of the recording, as the team member is the aware person he can record without informing anyone else. Its refereed to as single party consent.


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    #4
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    You could allege to management that the kids being in the recording is a serious matter and that he ought to be disciplined for recording children and have him challenged on why he done it.


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    #5
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    You could allege to management that the kids being in the recording is a serious matter and that he ought to be disciplined for recording children and have him challenged on why he done it.

    You could. But management might just say "keep your kids out of your workspace, you'reat fault for being so unprofessional".

    This wouldn't be justified in the context of Covid. But if WFH is standard, then a private child-free workspace would be a minimum.


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    #6
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    You could allege to management that the kids being in the recording is a serious matter and that he ought to be disciplined for recording children and have him challenged on why he done it.

    In practical terms it may not be possible to keep kids off screen during work related calls, but it would be safe for a caller to assume they would not be in the room and identifiable . The caller is recording a conversation, not the children. Why would he be disciplined?

    As another poster said, only one party is required to consent to a call being recorded as long as that person is a party to the conversation. The op should check his/her employee handbook to see if there is any policy relating to recordings at work.


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    #7
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Polycom wrote: »
    One of my team members has lodged a complaint against my company. He mentions me in the complaint and stated that he didn't trust me, so recorded our conversations without my knowledge but I didn't say anything incriminating. As far as I know, there is nothing negative in the recordings. I don't have clarity of them being audio or video and not sure if they have been destroyed. The recordings have been while I'm working from him with my kids routinly on the video

    Is it legal to record people in this manner?

    From the sounds of it you are working, on a zoom call and they record you. Which is not legal.

    You can record a phone conversation with the one party consent rule but that does not extend to video conference such as Skype, zoom, WhatsApp.

    You also have some options with GDPR (if personal info was shared on the call and then passed on by them) and there is some protection from the right to privacy. Covert recording in the work place usually requires a Garda operation.

    And if they constantly record you, you could go the criminal harassment route.

    I'd make a formal complaint to your management. That them saying they don't trust you and constantly recording you is harassment and they need to address it.


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    #8
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    From the sounds of it you are working, on a zoom call and they record you. Which is not legal.

    You can record a phone conversation with the one party consent rule but that does not extend to video conference such as Skype, zoom, WhatsApp.

    You also have some options with GDPR (if personal info was shared on the call and then passed on by them) and there is some protection from the right to privacy. Covert recording in the work place usually requires a Garda operation.

    And if they constantly record you, you could go the criminal harassment route.

    I'd make a formal complaint to your management. That them saying they don't trust you and constantly recording you is harassment and they need to address it.

    What are you basing this on? In Ireland a participant can give single party consent to record a conversation, it is not harassment and does not require a Gardai “operation”.


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    #9
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    I don't think that extends to the recording of underage children.
    Good luck to anyone trying to defend that, monster what the circumstance.


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    #10
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    I don't think that extends to the recording of underage children.
    Good luck to anyone trying to defend that, monster what the circumstance.

    He wasn’t recording under age children though, he was recording a conversation with an adult, work related, where do children factor in a work related call?


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    #11
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Dav010 wrote: »
    He wasn’t recording under age children though, he was recording a conversation with an adult, work related, where do children factor in a work related call?

    Especially its with a colleague who you don't trslust because you have no idea who else is in the room with him/her.


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    #12
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    My point was more that if you brought it up you could hope that HR would pin him on the whole "recording of children" thing. If word got out in the company that he was in trouble for the quoted bit, he wouldn't be recording anymore again that is for sure.


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    #13
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Dav010 wrote: »
    He wasn’t recording under age children though, he was recording a conversation with an adult, work related, where do children factor in a work related call?

    OP mentions that kids were in the room with him during the call


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    #14
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    OP mentions that kids were in the room with him during the call

    I appreciate that, but he was entitled to give one party consent to record a conversation. If the call was work related and during work hours, I’m struggling to see why this would be an issue with the op’s colleague recording this conversation.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    My point was more that if you brought it up you could hope that HR would pin him on the whole "recording of children" thing. If word got out in the company that he was in trouble for the quoted bit, he wouldn't be recording anymore again that is for sure.

    Why would he be in trouble? He recorded a work conversation, which he may be entitled to do. He wasn’t intentionally recording children, why would you have your children visible during a work call?


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/is-it-legal-to-record-someone-without-their-consent-1.3598275?mode=amp


    Run through here

    Short answer- "single party consent can be ok in ireland" is not a carte blanche answer at all, those are limited circumstances and may still breach GDPR and privacy depending on what's recorded.

    "GDPR forbids it" is not a guarantee against, in general

    It's down to context and tbh I'd be very surprised if your HR/management weren't able to put a stop to this very quickly indeed.


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    #16
    Kid Charlemagne
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Kid Charlemagne


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    You could. But management might just say "keep your kids out of your workspace, you'reat fault for being so unprofessional".

    This wouldn't be justified in the context of Covid. But if WFH is standard, then a private child-free workspace would be a minimum.

    On what planet?


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    #17
    Kid Charlemagne
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Kid Charlemagne


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    My point was more that if you brought it up you could hope that HR would pin him on the whole "recording of children" thing. If word got out in the company that he was in trouble for the quoted bit, he wouldn't be recording anymore again that is for sure.

    Those kind of allegations should never be tossed around in that kind of "ulterior motive" way.


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    #18
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Kid Charlemagne wrote: »
    On what planet?

    Presumably on planet work.


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    #19
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    ‘Show and tell’ type meetings (calls) are routinely recorded in my workplace. I know of 2 people who record calls for the purposes of doing minutes. Would HR necessarily have a problem with someone recording a work related call, if they were told the reason was for clarification/keeping a record purposes?


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    #20
    Fake Scores
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Fake Scores


    qwerty13 wrote: »
    Would HR necessarily have a problem with someone recording a work related call, if they were told the reason was for clarification/keeping a record purposes?


    The lad has already committed himself to a reason for the recording. Lack of trust or whatever it was. Said that in a verbal comment to the OP. Perhaps the OP recorded comment for proof :D


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Not a crime.

    Audio call is ok, video is not of it's your home.

    You can record Kids in public. That in itself is not a crime. Private home is a breach of privacy.

    I would see what the work rule is on it and if none exists, what they intend to do about one. Wfh brings in aspects not previously considered in certain places. Zoom, etc conference calls


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    #22
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Fake Scores wrote: »
    The lad has already committed himself to a reason for the recording. Lack of trust or whatever it was. Said that in a verbal comment to the OP. Perhaps the OP recorded comment for proof :D

    Yeah, but he could say that the lack of trust was down to prior misunderstandings/the OP going back on something he’d previously agreed. Obviously I don’t know any details! Just speculating that there’s ways of describing the recording that sound reasonable enough (at least to a lay person like me).


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    #23
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »

    You can record Kids in public. That in itself is not a crime. Private home is a breach of privacy.

    But if the house is being used as a workplace, it's no longer just a private home.


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    #24
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    qwerty13 wrote: »
    ‘Show and tell’ type meetings (calls) are routinely recorded in my workplace. I know of 2 people who record calls for the purposes of doing minutes. Would HR necessarily have a problem with someone recording a work related call, if they were told the reason was for clarification/keeping a record purposes?

    Everyone should get a pop up saying it is being recorded and they can accept or leave at that point.


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    #25
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,500 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    But if the house is being used as a workplace, it's no longer just a private home.

    Yes, it is. It is still a private home. The status of the property hasn't changed.

    OP - GDPR issues arise around the storage and retention of the recordings of you and your children. There is a question as to whether he was acting for the organisation or individually. Either way, you should be seeking confirmation that he has deleted the recordings, and that HR hasn't retained any copy of the recordings.


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    #26
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »

    Audio call is ok, video is not of it's your home.

    Is this an opinion or is there legislation relating to recording work audio/video conversations during remote working by a participant?


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    #27
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Yes, it is. It is still a private home. The status of the property hasn't changed.

    OP - GDPR issues arise around the storage and retention of the recordings of you and your children. There is a question as to whether he was acting for the organisation or individually. Either way, you should be seeking confirmation that he has deleted the recordings, and that HR hasn't retained any copy of the recordings.

    What are the GDPR issues if the recording is made by a participant? Only one party needs give consent.


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    #28
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,500 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What are the GDPR issues if the recording is made by a participant? Only one party needs give consent.

    GDPR gives the person to right to know where their information is held, the purpose for which it is being held, how long it will be held for and when it will be deleted.


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    #29
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    GDPR gives the person to right to know where their information is held, the purpose for which it is being held, how long it will be held for and when it will be deleted.

    And Irish law allows a participant in a conversation to record that conversation without consent from the other parties in that conversation. Could the Gardai have instructed Maurice MCCabe to delete his recordings under GDPR regs? No


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    #30
    Fake Scores
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Fake Scores


    Dav010 wrote: »
    And Irish law allows a participant in a conversation to record that conversation without consent from the other parties in that conversation. Could the Gardai have instructed Maurice MCCabe to delete his recordings under GDPR regs? No

    Recordings amounted to evidence of a criminal offence(s)
    He would be allowed to, compelled to in fact, retain them.


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    #31
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Fake Scores wrote: »
    Recordings amounted to evidence of a criminal offence(s)
    He would be allowed to, compelled to in fact, retain them.

    Has legislation been enacted relating to video recordings yet? I ask that because I don’t know myself, I haven’t heard. As far as I’m aware, the right to record a conversation you are a party to is not limited to criminal activity. In the op’s case, his/her employer may have policies relating to recording conversations. This is a new situation, but in relation to the children, an employee working remotely has a responsibility to identify a suitable area to work in, and take reasonable care of yourself and other people who may be affected by the work you are doing.

    https://www.hsa.ie/eng/topics/remote_working/

    In the op’s case, his/her colleague has lodged a complaint against the employer, this recording may be evidence to support that complaint. This may well end up in the WRC.


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