Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

2456719

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Because being a woman has no implicit power. Man up exploits the contrivance that being a man is by proving you are not in fact a woman.

    It means don't be a pussy. To be a woman is to be lame, ineffective, hysterical. It is ironically more offensive to women in a way, though being used on a campaign used to protect women.

    Of course this just follows a very bad habit in Ireland of taking American memes and using them without fully understanding to caring about their contexts ans then stupidly and clumsily applies them to Irish contexts.

    Man up. If you are drinking too much and lashing out, seek help.

    Woman up. Leave the husband that beats you.

    Woman up. Don't let your sons grow up into wife beaters.

    Parent up. Love your children.

    Children up. Love your parents. Sometimes love means picking up your toys.

    It should mean, be that wee bit better. Be brave. Take courage, whomever you are.
    That's one interpretation.

    However, just to point out it can also allow women off the hook as not having the same burden or risks put on them e.g. men have effectively told to "man up" during times of conscription.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    To people who say men can't be abused. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2507072/Paranoid-woman-Debbi-Wood-suffering-Othello-Syndrome-forces-fianc-lie-detector-test.html

    Also, this could easily go under the sexism tab. Honestly, look at the wording of what is definitely an abusive relationship.

    Completely different phraseology used here with a very light hearted approach.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 378 ✭✭ConFurioso


    A pinch of salt definitely has to be taken as it's the dailfail.....but still....

    You know when you read something that's just so bloody wrong that all you can do is laugh? I mean...so much responsibility for gender binary, misandry, misogyny etc etc lies with the media, and lately the social media.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    iptba wrote: »
    That's one interpretation.

    However, just to point out it can also allow women off the hook as not having the same burden or risks put on them e.g. men have effectively told to "man up" during times of conscription.

    True. But I suspect within five years in the US you will also see women have to register for conscription too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Completely different phraseology used here with a very light hearted approach.

    It's kind of surreal.

    You really have to read it to see what I'm talking about, but I don't think it would be wrote the same way if it was a woman in the man's situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Interesting how little coverage the assault by Melanie Sykes on her husband is getting the UK, and almost every single article on the topic has its' comments deactivated ...

    Maybe SafeIreland should explain their campaign to her husband ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    Piliger wrote: »
    Interesting how little coverage the assault by Melanie Sykes on her husband is getting the UK, and almost every single article on the topic has its' comments deactivated ...

    Maybe SafeIreland should explain their campaign to her husband ?

    SafeIreland is an Irish campaign, I'm not seeing what it has to do with a case in the UK?
    Or am I missing your point here?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭beano345


    Sauve wrote: »
    SafeIreland is an Irish campaign, I'm not seeing what it has to do with a case in the UK?
    Or am I missing your point here?

    I think his point is in his post.thats its not just women that suffer abuse and if a man reports abuse its not taking as seriously regardless if it happens here or the north pole


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Piliger wrote: »
    Interesting how little coverage the assault by Melanie Sykes on her husband is getting the UK, and almost every single article on the topic has its' comments deactivated ...

    Page 7 (full page) in the Metro (UK) today; only reason I suspect it wasn't further to the front page was owing to the several pages worth of commentary on Nigella Lawson & the fraud trial of her two assistants. The Nigella Lawson story really does seem to be dominating a lot of the newspapers front-pages at the moment.

    Whilst you might think "wow, the 'Metro'. Whoopty-f*cking-do", this is the newspaper that is read by tens of thousands (if not into the hundreds of thousands) of rail commuters every single day up and down the length of the UK.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    beano345 wrote: »
    I think his point is in his post.thats its not just women that suffer abuse and if a man reports abuse its not taking as seriously regardless if it happens here or the north pole

    Yep, so I missed his point. Completely misread it!
    Seems like the police took the allegation seriously though- arrested, detained overnight, and cautioned after an admission of guilt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,304 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    deccurley wrote: »
    If it stops one assault won't it be worth it?
    Not really, as long term, it'll cause more assaults.
    It basically means shut it and take it on the chin. Stop whining like a girl.
    And everytime an abuser sees it, I wonder will they think
    "I should stop doing this"
    or
    "I should man up and ignore my emotions, boys don't cry"
    ?
    Davelarson wrote: »
    We'll have a society with an awful lot of angry alienated young men wandering around trying to articulate their anger.
    We have an awful lot of angry alienated young men wandering around beating the crap out of women. Or playing chicken with a train.

    But still, it's our time to "man up" as opposed to looking at how you (society) mould young men (to be heartless monsters)?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Lemming wrote: »
    Page 7 (full page) in the Metro (UK) today;

    Whilst you might think "wow, the 'Metro'. Whoopty-f*cking-do", this is the newspaper that is read by tens of thousands (if not into the hundreds of thousands) of rail commuters every single day up and down the length of the UK.

    That is great to hear.

    If I had a copy I would post it to safe Ireland and ask them to justify their campaign.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Piliger wrote: »
    That is great to hear.

    I remember discussing the Rebecca Brooks assault on Ross Kemp with some of the guys I worked with and the general response was that people thought it was funny. Equally there was a Fair City story line in the last few years involving a woman beating a man, it was discussed as a serious topic on the Late Late and when it was introduced the audience all laughed at the concept. It is good therefore to see the Sykes case be dealt with in a serious fashion.

    http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/27/melanie-sykes-arrested-and-cautioned-over-assaulting-her-younger-husband-jack-cockings-4204336/

    I believe it is Police policy in the UK to detain in the event of a domestic violence claim which could account for more women being booked where previously they would have been let off.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,543 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Piliger wrote: »
    That is great to hear.

    If I had a copy I would post it to safe Ireland and ask them to justify their campaign.

    You could email them a link? I might just post them a print copy if I can lay my hands on one on the bus home.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    http://www.manup.ie/ is still there - an extraordinarily biased and prejudice attack of hate against men.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    wexie wrote: »
    Was the first thing my wife said : not all domestic abuse is by men (she did her thesis on female (sexual) abusers.

    Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    3DataModem wrote: »
    Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.
    Does that depend on country? I previously saw it mentioned for the US which I find believable given the high numbers incarcerated there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    I've noticed that sometimes women assaulting and/or abusing a man is not only seen as funny but almost respected to the point where they are almost hero figures. Or at the very least dismissed as non news. A lot will won't even bother reading the Sykes case.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    3DataModem wrote: »
    Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.

    Out of interest could you provide a link to one such study?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    3DataModem wrote:
    Many studies agree that most rape victims are men. Counting prison.
    Out of interest could you provide a link to one such study?
    Here's a link for a piece for the US, for what it's worth:
    http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US-Than-Women


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,487 ✭✭✭banquo


    I despair for public discourse in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Also, if you are a gay man in an abusive relationship, the campaign have nothing to say to you as you fall into another situation these people couldn't give a cr*p about. I also wonder which of the two in a relationship like this should be the one to "man up".






    EDIT: I'm not making fun of the example I used. I'm just trying to point out the stupidity and inequity of the slogan.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    There is a section for men dealing with violence

    http://www.manup.ie/get-help/#toggle-id-4


    Also this section
    Men are also Victims

    While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women, men are also victims of violence by men or women. They often suffer an added societal stigma because they are seen as weak. Very often they are not believed. If you are at risk of violence from a male or female partner. There are specialist organisations to support you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women, men are also victims of violence by men or women.

    Hmmm, aren't there studies that say it's been 50/50.

    And are we talking about gender based violence, or domestic abuse? They are two different things.

    Not taking a dig at the poster, more at the holes in the campaign.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Sure. I am trying to do some research that bears that out though and am looking for statistics.
    With all respect to iptba the link he provided was not entirely convincing.

    A wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender seems to add some meat to the argument but on examination of the sources used I am less than impressed as they solely focus on 1 country which happens to have a disproportionate level of incarceration by international standards.

    I would imagine that the majority of prison rapes are perpetuated on men by men so this campaign would seem to include these too.

    The 1 in 5 males raped by females is an interesting statistic and I would love to see the source for it. That said I would think that it could be taken with as big a pinch of salt as the opposing stat where what is defined as rape would not be considered so by the 'victim' in all of the cases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    There is a section for men dealing with violence

    http://www.manup.ie/get-help/#toggle-id-4


    Also this section
    Men are also Victims

    While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women, men are also victims of violence by men or women. They often suffer an added societal stigma because they are seen as weak. Very often they are not believed. If you are at risk of violence from a male or female partner. There are specialist organisations to support you.

    Read the link and then look at the banner again on the same page- it still says "Man Up. Don't abuse women or children". It's just lip service. It doesn't say 'men being abused or controlled should man up and call these numbers'.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Ah yeah I got that and I am not defending any campaign that blames all for the sins of the few. I would also seem that the statement
    "While the vast majority of incidents of gender-based violence are carried out by men against women" is misleading. What is gender based violence? The same sentence would not be true eliminating that phrase to
    "While the vast majority of incidents of violence are carried out by men against women"
    So it would seem that violence man on man or (presumably) women on women is not included in this statement.

    I am just interested to see a good study that backs up the wikipedia claims rather than defend this campaign.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    cantdecide wrote: »
    Also, if you are a gay man in an abusive relationship, the campaign have nothing to say to you as you fall into another situation these people couldn't give a cr*p about. I also wonder which of the two in a relationship like this should be the one to "man up".






    EDIT: I'm not making fun of the example I used. I'm just trying to point out the stupidity and inequity of the slogan.
    I've also seen it mentioned that such campaigning groups don't tend to highlight the problems of abuse in lesbian relationships. In that case women are victims so groups specifically focused on helping women victims should be interested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    cantdecide wrote: »
    Read the link and then look at the banner again on the same page- it still says "Man Up. Don't abuse women or children". It's just lip service. It doesn't say 'men being abused or controlled should man up and call these numbers'.

    Our problem, as men, is how many men here wrote to this shower and complained ?

    I wrote a (hard copy) letter to them and to their sponsors. We will get NO WHERE if we don't make a fuss and write ! And emails are worthless pieces of crap...... it's letters that get replies and notice :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    (4 minutes 27 seconds)
    Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    iptba wrote: »
    (4 minutes 27 seconds)
    Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets


    that'll put some feminists' heads in a spin

    I've said it a zillion times, the tremendous appeal for embracing victimhood at every possible moment is ultimately further entrenching the idea of woman as weak, needy, inferior etc."

    a holistic more well-rounded view of the bigger picture is necessary but it will never happen while the very notion of feminism exists, it is ultimately a self-destructive almost self-contradictory ideology

    only when it is done away with and when men and women work together towards highlighting the discrimination and injustices that face men and women will the equality aspirations be taken seriously, it can't and doesn't happen under the feminism banner

    If the "we're all in together" humanist approach was offered, I think a lot of feminists would reject it for the simple reason that a feminism has to a large extent become an industry co-opted by chauvinists


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    actually just saw a book review on Amazon that is a perfect illustration of the chauvism embodied by industry feminism

    They are not about equality at all, they are about self-justification of anything by a woman and demonisation of almost anything by a man, viewing the world through that kind of prism is the very definition of unbalanced/unequal/discriminatory - they can't see the wood for the trees, campaigning for "equality" yet espousing one-eyed inconsistent and hypocritical worldviews in many instances

    They remind me in many ways of the more extreme "liberals" out there who claim to support free speech, claim to be anti-censorship, open to different views yet are the most virtiolic when it comes to condemning and silencing those with alternate views, a true liberal hears a right-winger or conservative out and respects their right to hold that view rather than calling them every name under the sun - so blind to their own hypocrasy and so embittered by their fabricated and carefully constructed victimhood...anywaywell-reasoned rant over;), the review is below and it was written about a book called the end of men on amazon

    I can't say I disagree with this person's rather humorous review of a book, this stuff goes on all the time

    "Name one thing right now that a feminist would criticize their gender for doing. I'll save you the mental effort: there's nothing. There is absolutely nothing that a girl can do that would get hate from feminists. For example:

    Girl has no willpower and is 50 pounds overweight? Not her fault. She's beautiful. Social constructs need to be changed.

    Girl s l u t s around with 100 guys without condoms? Not her fault. She's empowered and strong.

    Girl is irresponsible with sex and has five abortions in her 20s? It's her body and she can do whatever she wants. A fetus inside her is not a living entity.

    Girl is making less money than men? The patriarchy is holding her down.

    Girl gets drunk in a guy's house and has sex with him? He took advantage of her. She was r a p e d.

    Girl studies stupid major in college and can't get a job? The 1% owes her a marketing manager position.

    Girl sleeps with her college professor in exchange for a better grade? She was a victim. The professor took advantage of her.

    Girl likes dating guys much younger than her? You go girl! Rob that cradle!

    Girl experiences an uncomfortable moment of any kind? She's being harassed. Men are creeps.

    Girl travels to Italy or Spain to bang hot European men? She's romantic.

    Wife cheated on her faithful husband? He wasn't attending to her needs. She wasn't happy. Give her the kids and half his money.

    Mother runs over her own kid in an accident? The SUV wasn't safe. It's the auto industry's fault.

    Mother kills all of her kids? She was mentally sick. We must give her love instead of severe punishment.

    On the flip side, almost anything a man does is wrong:

    Guy is nice to girl in hopes of getting sex one day? He's dishonest. He's the polar opposite of nice.

    Guy approaches girls in the bar in hopes of getting sex? He's a rando creep loser.

    Guy on OK Cupid says he wants a girl who doesn't play games? Let's publicly mock him on Tumblr.

    Guy makes a joke about fat girls? Hate speech.

    Guys says he doesn't date black girls with ghetto attitude? Racist.

    Guy likes working out to have strong muscles? Narcissist.

    Guy says he wants his wife to stay at home and raise the kids? Slaver.

    Guy calls girls on the internet ugly? Whole internet comes pounding on his door.

    Guy hits on a girl on the street? Street harassment. Disturbing the peace.

    Guy travels to Ukraine to get laid? Sex tourist.

    Guy likes dating girls much younger than him? Sexual predator.

    Guy likes dating girls just a little bit younger than him? Immature and irresponsible."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    You could add:

    Guy wants to be a house husband. Lazy, not a real man. (although that seems to be changing)
    Guy breaks up with a girl for honest reasons. Creep, looser, can't put up with a strong independent woman. All her girl friends now hate him.
    Guy hires a man over a woman on grounds of experience/qualifications. Sexist, discrimination.
    Guy goes to a strip club. Pervert/sleazy. (fun night out for the girls)
    Guy opens a newspaper/magazine that has a pic of a sexy model. Perv, degrading women, inappropriate behaviour in work place etc.
    Guy makes a bit of suggestive banter in work place. Sexist, degrading behaviour leading discipline and/or the sack. (just plain banter for women).


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    iptba wrote: »
    (4 minutes 27 seconds)
    Men's Rights versus Feminism explained using magnets
    Very interesting take there I and one I would wholly agree with. Actually saw a real life example of this. Guy we knew was basically a battered husband. Mostly verbal, sometimes physical. One night she attacked him and left him with facial bruising and cuts. The neighbours called the Guards and he was the one asked to leave, even though there wasn't a scratch on her. She told them he pushed her and that was enough.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    py2006 wrote: »
    You could add:

    Guy wants to be a house husband. Lazy, not a real man. (although that seems to be changing)
    Guy breaks up with a girl for honest reasons. Creep, looser, can't put up with a strong independent woman. All her girl friends now hate him.
    Guy hires a man over a woman on grounds of experience/qualifications. Sexist, discrimination.
    Guy goes to a strip club. Pervert/sleazy. (fun night out for the girls)
    Guy opens a newspaper/magazine that has a pic of a sexy model. Perv, degrading women, inappropriate behaviour in work place etc.
    Guy makes a bit of suggestive banter in work place. Sexist, degrading behaviour leading discipline and/or the sack. (just plain banter for women).

    guy looks at woman: trying to subdue her with the male gaze, embodying the patriarchal system that defines him and enslaves the woman

    guy looks away from woman: trying to dismiss and disrespect her as a non-entity unworthy of his attention, unappreciative of the perfection of feminity, embodying the patriarchal system that defines him and enslaves the woman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Girl cheats on a guy. Guy gets upset and yells obscenities. Girl proclaims she now realizes how abusive of a boyfriend the guy is and this now becomes the cause of the breakup to make her look like the victim

    Girl complains when she's too hot, too cold, hungry, full, sad, angry, when easily offended etc. Guy moans when sick. He's got man flu and is over-reacting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Yes, lots of examples here.
    A simple trick I often use is to switch the genders. It is interesting how often standards/rules are different. It does not impress me at all that so-called gender studies researchers/academics/educators don't do this more often.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Dec 4, 2013 article:
    Why are so many MEN becoming victims of domestic violence? It's one of Britain's last remaining taboos, but abuse against men in the home is on the rise

    - More married men suffer abuse from their spouse than married women
    - These days, women move more in men's worlds
    - They earn and compete with as much aggression as their male colleagues
    - Women are also fast catching up with men in the alchohol stakes


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2518434/Why-MEN-victims-domestic-violence-Its-Britains-remaining-taboos-abuse-men-home-rise.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/violence-against-women-1.1716847
    Violence against women

    Sat, Mar 8, 2014, 01:08

    First published:Sat, Mar 8, 2014, 01:08

    Sir, – The fact that one in three European women has experienced physical or sexual violence since the age of 15 and that 26 per cent of Irish women have experienced physical and/or sexual violence since that age is quite simply appalling (“Quarter of Irish women have been victims of violence”, Home News, March 5th).

    It is imperative that we take action to turn the tide on such pervasive and pandemic gender-based violence.

    For this reason, the Irish Girl Guides have adopted a Voices Against Violence curriculum that has been developed by the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, in partnership with UN Women.

    Our 1,800 volunteer leaders throughout the country are receiving training on issues of gender-based violence before introducing the curriculum to our 10,000 girls and young women, who will learn to talk about violence, understand its root causes, recognise their rights and develop the skills and confidence to claim those rights for themselves and others.

    The curriculum uses fun and interactive methods to create a safe space for girls to learn about the issues. Age-appropriate activities are used so that our youngest members, Ladybird Guides aged 5-7, can engage with the programme by learning about their likes and dislikes and their rights to make decisions, while Senior Branch members, aged 14-plus, are encouraged to take action in their communities and to speak out against violence.

    This week, to mark International Women’s Day, our members are taking part in an activity called “From a Whisper to a Shout” that encourages them to speak out and make their voices heard.

    Our vision is to see a world where girls and women feel free and safe, both in Ireland and overseas – a world where they are fully empowered to fulfil their potential. – Yours, etc,

    HELEN CONCANNON,
    Chief Commissioner,
    LINDA PETERS,
    Chief Executive Officer,
    Irish Girl Guides,
    Pembroke Park, Dublin 4.
    I have little confidence that such programmes will accurately discuss domestic violence, given how they are presenting things. Women initiate a significant amount of domestic violence and then another significant percentage of domestic violence involves both similar amounts of domestic violence from both partners doesn't look like it would fit in with talk of "gender-based violence"


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Random video I just came across in my FB feed of a woman *really* losing it. This is in public but no reason to believe she wouldn't behave like this at home:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=817033734993095


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    Random video I just came across in my FB feed of a woman *really* losing it. This is in public but no reason to believe she wouldn't behave like this at home:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=817033734993095

    That's a video of someone most likely off their head on drugs, drunk or mentally ill. How on earth is it connected to the 'man-up' campaign? Or is it just to demonstrate that women can be violent/ill/drunk/drugged up?

    Does that mean it's ok for women to post videos of drugged or drunken men and say 'no reason to believe he doesn't behave like this at home?', on similar threads? I can imagine how that would go down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Candie wrote: »
    That's a video of someone most likely off their head on drugs, drunk or mentally ill. How on earth is it connected to the 'man-up' campaign? Or is it just to demonstrate that women can be violent/ill/drunk/drugged up?

    Does that mean it's ok for women to post videos of drugged or drunken men and say 'no reason to believe he doesn't behave like this at home?', on similar threads? I can imagine how that would go down.
    Possibly not my most informative post. However, if it ever gets to the stage that domestic violence is presented as a problem women inflict on men and children, and there's a thread discussing this issue, I won't object to a post highlighting that men can be violent if it wakes people up from any denial they have on the topic.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    Possibly not my most informative post. However, if it ever gets to the stage that domestic violence is presented as a problem women inflict on men and children, and there's a thread discussing this issue, I won't object to a post highlighting that men can be violent.

    Of course men and women can be violent. You didn't just highlight her violence, you made the pointed remark that there was no reason to suppose she wasn't an abuser in a domestic setting.

    Assuming that a violent outburst in public - for all we know as a result of mental illness (assuming her 'ultimate form' doesn't sound like a rational statement), means someone is probably an abuser in the home, and somehow connected to the man-up campaign that is the subject of this thread is quite the stretch though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    iptba wrote: »
    Possibly not my most informative post. However, if it ever gets to the stage that domestic violence is presented as a problem women inflict on men and children, and there's a thread discussing this issue, I won't object to a post highlighting that men can be violent if it wakes people up from any denial they have on the topic.

    For that to happen more men have to come forward and admit they were subjected to it. We can trot out all the stats in the world but its only when there is a human face to it that people really take notice. Its hard to empathise with a statistic. Men are reluctant to come forward though and I wonder why that is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Candie wrote: »
    Of course men and women can be violent. You didn't just highlight her violence, you made the pointed remark that there was no reason to suppose she wasn't an abuser in a domestic setting.

    Assuming that a violent outburst in public - for all we know as a result of mental illness (assuming her 'ultimate form' doesn't sound like a rational statement), means someone is probably an abuser in the home
    Do you really believe that it's a stretch to think that this person could lose it at home. I don't.


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    Do you really believe that it's a stretch to think that this person could lose it at home. I don't.

    I don't know, and neither do you. I'd rather hold people responsible for the crimes I know they commit, not one's I think they probably do.

    If I saw two men exchange punches I wouldn't assume they beat their partners, although maybe you would.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Candie wrote: »
    I don't know, and neither do you. I'd rather hold people responsible for the crimes I know they commit, not one's I think they probably do.

    If I saw two men exchange punches I wouldn't assume they beat their partners, although maybe you would.
    If I saw a man go crazy like that if McDonald's drive-thru' wouldn't give him chicken mcnuggets at 10:30am in the morning, which is the example presented, I wouldn't have a problem believing he could be a risk in the domestic setting also.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    If I saw a man go crazy like that if McDonald's drive-thru' wouldn't give him chicken mcnuggets at 10:30am in the morning, which is the example presented, I wouldn't have a problem believing he could be a risk in the domestic setting also.


    Right so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    eviltwin wrote: »
    For that to happen more men have to come forward and admit they were subjected to it. We can trot out all the stats in the world but its only when there is a human face to it that people really take notice. Its hard to empathise with a statistic. Men are reluctant to come forward though and I wonder why that is.
    It's an interesting question alright. And putting a human face to the story could help.

    I've read of quite a lot of men who when they reported it, were arrested themselves which certainly doesn't encourage men to come forward for help.

    A lot of the problems, I believe, stem from a view that a woman couldn't hurt a man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭diveout


    eviltwin wrote: »
    For that to happen more men have to come forward and admit they were subjected to it. We can trot out all the stats in the world but its only when there is a human face to it that people really take notice. Its hard to empathise with a statistic. Men are reluctant to come forward though and I wonder why that is.

    Men and women have a different definition of abuse to start with. That's one reason.

    The other is because, ironically, of women's second status. So what kind of man are you if you got put in your place by a woman? It can feel like he is demoted. And I wouldn;t have understood this before unless I saw it myself, as a witness to a domestic violence scene between a family member and his spouse, I saw the police's attitude initially. Seriously, if I was not there as a witness [I am a woman], the tables could have completely turned and he would have been the one who was arrrested, because the cops walk into the scene prejudiced.

    She then later in the week she had a civil order or peace to get her stuff, so the police escorted her to the apartment, and their attitude was completely assuming she was the protected party, when it fact it was her husband, and they let her take all the time in the world until I pointed out to them that it was him who was the protected party and their attitude completely changed. And most likely it changed because I was also a protected party, and I am a woman.

    The thing is if a male spouse gets into a domestic with their wife, the wife will just claim self defense, and there is a high possibility he will be the one to get arrested. So that is why men don't speak up.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement