A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

So instead of proper planning and giving more space to pedestrians they decided to limit the speed. I must admit I find it baffling who people in Dublin vote for. They have one of the most congested cities in Europe, completely unpleasant for drivers, cyclists and pedestrians without decent public transport but as long as any development to increase the density of city centre is stopped they are happy.

The Council are also hoping to have that rule in place by the end of the year to deal with Covid 19 crisis. Do they think people are morons or are they joking. At this speed they will miss the second wave if there is one.

seamus wrote: »

You're driving a tonne of tempered and shaped steel and glass, powered by the purified and liquified remains of dinosaurs, but apparently it's the speed that's "unnatural". :rolleyes:

This argument was made when the first 30km/h limits were brought in on the quays. It was stupid and baseless then, and it's stupid and baseless now.

There is no right to drive at any given speed anywhere. Just because a given speed may be possible, doesn't mean it should be permissible.

The difference in time over short distances is minimal. And typically there is no difference when you factor in traffic lights.

However the impact on vulnerable road users of faster traffic, is huge.

And there you have it folks, the mealy mouthed, joyless Green Party/Cycling agenda revealed again. A delusional charter for those too risk adverse and fearful to enjoy anything. Cycling around negligently, saturated with entitlement, in their ridiculous costumes complete with camera helmet to record the confrontation they are so anxious to provoke. Emasculated by unfulfilled longing and jealousy but too inadequate to take any action for themselves. Their only agenda to drag everyone down to their own mediocre level

In civilised societies since the 50's the preferred mode of transport is the car because it is clean, comfortable, speedy, has room for your girlfriend and is occasionally fun - and gets you from where you live to where you actually want to get to (not where CIE decide you might like to be).

Under no illusion however Keegan and his cheerleaders have won so remember me as you cycle uphill though the driving rain next Winter or stand stoically at the crowded bus stop as yet another filthy bus crammed with sodden disconsolate passengers rumbles past.

Wonder how long the cycling lobby mods will let this last?

seamus wrote: »

Diminishing returns.
See the "utility" and "balance" bits in my post there.

See the graph at the start of this document.
https://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/publications/road_traffic/world_report/speed_en.pdf?ua=1

There is a very clear turning point at 30km/h where the liklihood of a vulnerable road user dying, shoots up. In relative terms, there isn't a huge difference in death rates between 10, 20 or 30km/h. But there is between 30 and 40km/h. And way higher again between 30 and 50.

That's because nobody actually drives 30 kph. Neither they will now. People will be either stuck in cars doing 0kph because planning really isn't a thing Dublin council do and outside the busiest hours you don't need to worry because nobody is measuring the speed anyway.

It's laughable that 30kph down the Quays is considered a success. Maybe that is quality city planning 30 years ago but any major rich European city would be embarrassed by traffic arrangements like that.

Truthvader wrote: »

And there you have it folks...

"I have no decent argument for why cars should be given primacy over everything else, so I'll just invoke some dinosaur notions about vitality and masculinity to signal to others that I'm a real man™ who has no truck with poofter nonsense like the environment or saving lives. You're not a man unless you have a loud engine and a pretty woman in your passenger seat, and that's that".

is_that_so wrote: »

As a speed it requires a fair bit of concentration to hold for very long as it feels unnaturally slow.

But the Authorities dont seam to care in ther quest for a Nanny state Utopia or perhaps to boost ther coffers - its an impracital speed to uphold when ther is little traffic - Much of our society has been built around the Car, some poeolpe actually like Cars, some people need a Car for ther work but ther rights dont seam to matter in our Nanny state of today where personal responsibilty seams to be in the hands of the Authorities.

is_that_so wrote: »

As a speed it requires a fair bit of concentration to hold for very long as it feels unnaturally slow.

You're moving at speed in a ton metal box.

It's all unnatural.

HartsHat wrote: »

Makes sense.

Hit someone at 30kph and they have a 90% chance of living. Hit them at 50kph and its 50/50.

If you cant keep your car at 30kph without looking at a speedometer you shouldn't frankly have a licence.

I think there is a difference between want and can. Everyone can keep a car going 30kmph but nobody does at least not all the time. And when you have one of those rules that everybody ignores it's impossible to police it.

meeeeh wrote: »

That's because nobody actually drives 30 kph. Neither they will now. People will be either stuck in cars doing 0kph because planning really isn't a thing Dublin council do and outside the busiest hours you don't need to worry because nobody is measuring the speed anyway.

That graph wasn't created by standing on the side of the road watching traffic.

Humans are hardy in many ways, but there is a limit to our hardiness. This is typically because your brain gets knocked around inside your skull, and it is only capable of taking a certain amount of force. Once the forces hit a certain point, the odds of you surviving drop quite dramatically.
This is true whether you fall out of tree, trip on a kerb, jump off a cliff or get hit by a car.

For people getting hit by large moving metal objects this "certain point" is around 30-35km/h.

kona wrote: »

Does this apply to cyclists too? Youd quite frankly shouldnt be on a bike in traffic if you cant maintain 30kmph.

It's a limit, not a target.

I presume you haven't done your driving test yet.

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes we can all pretend we all obey the rules all the time. I let you know when I actually see anyone driving 30 without being:

a. stuck in traffic
b. 90
c. or drunk.

Are you trying to tell me 100% of sober motorists (that are not 90) break the 30kph speed limits when they can?

No wonder so many pedestrians are killed by cars.

thebaz wrote: »

Unfortubnatly it will be an easy law to enforce - a stupid law - but with cameras and penalty points they will implement it quite easiiy , leading to higher insurances and suspended licenses for an already under pressure section of society -

People who cant obey the law?

magicbastarder wrote: »

I hit 60km/h on the flat recently in my bike. Granted, there may have been a *teensy* bit of wind assistance.

Really? Fair play. That's some going.

I've never seen anyone go that fast on a bike.

HartsHat wrote: »

If you cant keep your car at 30kph without looking at a speedometer you shouldn't frankly have a licence.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. I've been driving since the early 1980s so I'm a very experienced driver, and I can safely say that's it is very difficult to drive a a very slow speed for any length of time!

The natural inclination is to go up through the gears and maintain the limit, but if the limit is just 30km/h (just 18 MPH) then you've just got to keep hovering between 2nd & 3rd gear, constantly clocking the Speedo in case you accidentally creep up... Oblivious to all else around you.

30km/h is fine in housing estates, but not on main arterial roads & dual carriageways, where it will be flouted by everybody deliberately & accidentally.

is_that_so wrote: »

As a speed it requires a fair bit of concentration to hold for very long as it feels unnaturally slow.

Loose the negative "**** this slow speed limit" attitude and give and try practicing driving below 30kmph for an extended period of time. After a week or two it'll be second nature to you dropping down to that speed.
Maybe to help out there should be a bunch of speed bumps installed like in residential areas.

It's a pretty weak argument to suggest you need concentration to maintain a slow speed honestly. You could say that about any speed really. It's more the personal attitude that needs adjustment and more self discipline to adjust our habits to drive slower.