BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

sharper · 26-07-2018 7:16pm

SG317 wrote: »

Quite frankly he seems to be getting more arrogant. He really needs to work on his sales technique. He acts as if he is the Dublin commuter's saviour and comes across as entitled and unwilling to accept critism of the plan.

The people that don't like this plan also seem to take particular issue with Jarret Walker as an individual. I don't think there's anything he could do which wouldn't be criticised in this case.

If he didn't respond on twitter at all he'd be accused of being aloof, disinterested, uninvolved.

If he responded in a more "media savvy" manner he'd be accused of being slick, dishonest, ignoring the real issues.

My reading of his comments is that he's someone passionate and knowledgeable about public transport. He's produced a plan that many people are willing to misrepresent to further their own ends and which many more people are inclined to criticise without taking any time at all to understand what's in it.

Overall this shows exactly why Ireland has terrible public transport in the first place.

Stephen15 · 26-07-2018 7:29pm

I think his responses have been good when people lie and resort to personal abuse whenever they find something they don't like about the plan. If you don't like an element of the plan why can't they make their submission rather than resorting to personal abuse on Twitter and lies.

This goes especially for local representives of opposition political primarily FF and the usual PBP/AAA and Joan Collins brigade who are just opposing the plan because it doesn't suit their agenda which is a free for all that involves not taking any personal or social responsibility.

MJohnston · 26-07-2018 7:52pm

SG317 wrote: »

Quite frankly he seems to be getting more arrogant. He really needs to work on his sales technique. He acts as if he is the Dublin commuter's saviour and comes across as entitled and unwilling to accept critism of the plan. He should leave his consultant Dan Costantino to do all the PR. He actually knows how to deal with the public and does not come across as a self serving and disconnected. He also has actually answered the publics questions and acknowledged certain flaws with the plan. Jarret Walker, to be honest has not done any good in selling the plan apart to the already pro-bus connects people.

Jarrett Walker has the perfect attitude for dealing with the Irish public and media, which is to not take any of their usual nonsense.

There are just a lot of people commenting on BusConnects that would rather the whole project fail than provide some constructive criticism on particular elements.

Peregrine · 26-07-2018 7:52pm

Walker has taken personal abuse and had people claim he said things that he never did. Dermot O'Leary is blithering absolute nonsense at him every 20 minutes all day and now Dermot seems to be switching between his account and the NBRU Twitter account to make it look like he has more supporters.

Meanwhile, politicians who have been caught out not understanding the plans are sending out leaflets and holding public meetings.

The weaponisation of people's ignorance by politicians and trade unionists could be the death of this proposal.

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 8:01pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Dermot O'Leary's behaviour is remarkable. I thought maybe he'd just gotten someone else to do his spamming of boards earlier, but it seems increasingly clear it was just him. How can someone who is acting like a child having a tantrum be the general secretary of a union?

https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/1022520095946539008
This is him explaining how the unions are open to changes.

To phase phase we drove buses then drove smaller buses then bigger buses. Sometimes the bus would have to go new places and we drove there. We stopped handling cash and we asked for improved security got it but are listing that as willingness to change too

MJohnston · 26-07-2018 8:07pm

"Cashless", brilliant, they accepted a change that meant that they had to do substantially less work.

devnull · 26-07-2018 8:08pm

Just a reminder that we cannot speculate on the identity of posters.

- Moderators

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 8:11pm

MJohnston wrote: »

"Cashless", brilliant, they accepted a change that meant that they had to do substantially less work.

Now, now don't be dismissive the professional bus drivers also accepted a change that meant they drove a slightly different kind of bus.

MJohnston · 26-07-2018 8:11pm

Fine, I'll rephrase (attack the tweet, not the tweeter and all that):

Dermot O'Leary's behaviour on Twitter is remarkable. How can someone who appears to be acting like a child having a tantrum be the general secretary of a union?

Zebra3 · 26-07-2018 8:15pm

MJohnston wrote: »

"Cashless", brilliant, they accepted a change that meant that they had to do substantially less work.

And which also made them safer. Unreal. :rolleyes:

sharper · 26-07-2018 8:21pm

Weren't "one man" busses introduced in the 1980s? What percentage of current drivers would have ever worked any other way?

Stevek101 · 26-07-2018 8:33pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Fine, I'll rephrase (attack the tweet, not the tweeter and all that):

Dermot O'Leary's behaviour on Twitter is remarkable. How can someone who appears to be acting like a child having a tantrum be the general secretary of a union?

Lets not forget the stones being thrown by drivers at their own buses leaving Harristown garage and that was on over a timetable on one route (128).

devnull · 26-07-2018 8:36pm

Peregrine wrote: »

Meanwhile, politicians who have been caught out not understanding the plans are sending out leaflets and holding public meetings.

The weaponisation of people's ignorance by politicians and trade unionists could be the death of this proposal.

Got to admit at this stage it's hard to see how the plan can survive in it's current form by everything that is being kicked up, unless the NTA starts to take firm control of the situation because it's turning into somewhat of a circus in my view.

Does anyone know what SIPTU's view on this is? They seem to be very quiet. Would the members of the NBRU tend to be more senior than SIPTU, and potentially have more to lose, such as marked-in status?

tkd93 · 26-07-2018 8:37pm

Honestly I am already stressing over these changes. Currently I am 2 minutes walk from 69 and 8 minutes from 13. What is going to happen to me after this change?. I work in town as do many people I know. You cannot just take away these services and leave people with no alternative.

Stephen15 · 26-07-2018 8:40pm

devnull wrote: »

Does anyone know what SIPTU's view on this is? They seem to be very quiet. Would the members of the NBRU tend to be more senior than SIPTU, and potentially have more to lose, such as marked-in status?

Siptu seem to be taking a more mature approach

https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2018-07-18a.357

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 8:54pm

tkd93 wrote: »

Honestly I am already stressing over these changes. Currently I am 2 minutes walk from 69 and 8 minutes from 13. What is going to happen to me after this change?. I work in town as do many people I know. You cannot just take away these services and leave people with no alternative.

Where are you talking about?

tkd93 · 26-07-2018 8:57pm

Near the Green Isle Hotel for me personally.

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 9:09pm

tkd93 wrote: »

Near the Green Isle Hotel for me personally.

Belgard Road>w2 >A trunk to town

tkd93 · 26-07-2018 9:12pm

Complete madness I have gone from multiple direct buses to that. Any idea where exactly on the belgard road.

Goldengirl · 26-07-2018 9:14pm

This post has been deleted.

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 9:15pm

tkd93 wrote: »

Complete madness I have gone from multiple direct buses to that. Any idea where exactly on the belgard road.

The maps aren't that details I'd assume at the junction at Newlands. How frequent are your current direction routes? The A bus will be less than every 5 minutes

jd · 26-07-2018 9:16pm

tkd93 wrote: »

Near the Green Isle Hotel for me personally.

63 goes into town?

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 9:18pm

jd wrote: »

63 goes into town?

I ignored the 63 due to low frequency but yes also an option

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 9:21pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

But my point is that people shouldn't have to use a dial a bus service, which I do know about, actually.
A public service should endeavour to serve all sections of the community. Your arguments are just excuses for your obvious disinterest in discussing a reasonable accommodation. And speaking of fit and ablebodied, I'm not and I'm not elderly either. I find your comments offensive.

Then don't use it and walk to the bus stop. I'm not sure what will please you. I think a dial-a-bus service coupled with a bus on average 300 metres away is very reasonable. Nothing I've said has been offensive. If you wish quote what I've said that's been offensive or DM. I will of course apologise if I've said something inappropriate

tkd93 · 26-07-2018 9:28pm

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

Stevek101 · 26-07-2018 9:31pm

tkd93 wrote: »

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

This highlights that fact the current network isn't working.

But I think it'd be wise if they launched some sort of interactive journey planner showing new journey times and routing.

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 9:32pm

tkd93 wrote: »

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

So for one quick change you'll be in work much quicker

tkd93 · 26-07-2018 9:33pm

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. But when you consider the amount of people using the above routes plus buses like 69x 51D etc surely depriving a direct bus cannot be justified.

Goldengirl · 26-07-2018 9:35pm

This post has been deleted.

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 9:40pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

Thank you. This is what I was talking about. Dial a Bus is, as you point out for people who really would be shut in , if it wasn't available. However in my experience it is only for hospital or doctor's appointments, but if that is not so at this time am unsure. The smaller feeder services is what I have been talking about all along, as I do agree the bigger doubledeckers are wasted going through some estates. My issue with the Dial a Bus system is the unsuitability for people who have a fair amount of independence but need a little bit of support e.g.. physically cannot carry a load too far, or walk too far, but with a feeder service can maintain a decent lifestyle and independence. I don't think it is too much to ask.

How is a dial-a-bus service direct to your door to the nearest hub with most likely a better frequency worse than a feeder bus with most likely an hourly service and the stop will still be 300 m away?

john boye · 26-07-2018 9:56pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/1022520095946539008
This is him explaining how the unions are open to changes.

To phase phase we drove buses then drove smaller buses then bigger buses. Sometimes the bus would have to go new places and we drove there. We stopped handling cash and we asked for improved security got it but are listing that as willingness to change too

Embrace change? He's obviously banking on people not being old or bothered enough to remember individual cases. How long did the unions delay one-man operation by? It went on for years! And how many strikes were there over changing routes to imp operations? Some of them went on for months. And naturally the unions sold the imp drivers down the river when it was resolved.

Goldengirl · 26-07-2018 10:01pm

This post has been deleted.

Thrashssacre · 26-07-2018 10:06pm

tkd93 wrote: »

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. But when you consider the amount of people using the above routes plus buses like 69x 51D etc surely depriving a direct bus cannot be justified.

Most of the clondalkin villiage area still have direct busses in the form of the 63 and frequent D3 as well as two local routes and two orbitals. we're actually quite well served by the plan

Goldengirl · 26-07-2018 10:29pm

This post has been deleted.

LeinsterDub · 26-07-2018 11:01pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

A young person with a non visible disability?...Dial a Bus as I have already explained is not for me . I'm nowhere near ready for that sort of service. And frequency depends on how many others in your area are looking for transport to ,say the local shopping centre,at the same time.They are not frequent , often one trip or two to your area per day, and have to be booked at least the day before . So bye bye independence and spontaneity. The feeder bus , on the other hand, is at least every hour and maybe 100m from my door.

You want a bus service built around vanity and you've a bus stop outside your door so I'm alright jack?

Pa8301 · 26-07-2018 11:10pm

You know this is all going to be erased in a few minutes?

AlekSmart · 26-07-2018 11:10pm

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Most of the clondalkin villiage area still have direct busses in the form of the 63 and frequent D3 as well as two local routes and two orbitals. we're actually quite well served by the plan

Be off with you,and your talking up of Busconnects...you obviously don't care about the poor,the disadvantaged and the elderly (feel free to add any others I've omitted)

At this point,Dermot O Leary has blown Busconnects clear out of the water.
Barring a miracle,this plan will be quietly referred back for further consideration before being stuffed into whatever spare filing cabinets the NTA can find.

In the meantime,the same NTA will be flailing around to find a scapegoat,and I venture that Bus Atha Cliath itself may well find itself having to take the flak for a seriously mishandled introduction programme,totally caused by the NTA itself.

Politicians are now nervous,each not wanting to be seen as unsympathetic to the poor,disadvantaged and elderly,with very few having any real interest in,or knowledge of Public Transport in any meaningful form.

The NBRU really are playing a blinder here,and it may well see a few NTA heads rolling yet....it's a good job the relevant Minister can now say...."Well Joe.....That would be a matter for the NTA to decide...."

It really is a funny old world

Slutmonkey57b · 26-07-2018 11:15pm

tkd93 wrote: »

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

"The current service is appalling and barely functions for me"

"They're designing a different network which will probably solve that problem?"

"I want to keep the existing routes"

??

noelfirl · 26-07-2018 11:16pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Be off with you,and your talking up of Busconnects...you obviously don't care about the poor,the disadvantaged and the elderly (feel free to add any others I've omitted)

At this point,Dermot O Leary has blown Busconnects clear out of the water.
Barring a miracle,this plan will be quietly referred back for further consideration before being stuffed into whatever spare filing cabinets the NTA can find.

In the meantime,the same NTA will be flailing around to find a scapegoat,and I venture that Bus Atha Cliath itself may well find itself having to take the flak for a seriously mishandled introduction programme,totally caused by the NTA itself.

Politicians are now nervous,each not wanting to be seen as unsympathetic to the poor,disadvantaged and elderly,with very few having any real interest in,or knowledge of Public Transport in any meaningful form.

The NBRU really are playing a blinder here,and it may well see a few NTA heads rolling yet....it's a good job the relevant Minister can now say...."Well Joe.....That would be a matter for the NTA to decide...."

It really is a funny old world

Would you defend this sort of crap from the NBRU and it's surrogates about BusConnects, Alek?

BUSCONNECTS TO LEAVE DISABLED AND ELDERLY BY ROADSIDE VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN DANGER

MAKE IT STOP.

SAVE OUR HEROES AND ELDER STATESPEOPLE.

SAY NO TO THIS SAVAGE ATTACK AGAINST THE DISABLED AND ELDERLY.

A little bit of cop on please.

MJohnston · 26-07-2018 11:25pm

tkd93 wrote: »

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

If you used to get the 13, then the D3 route (the D is a spinal route, so unlike what you're hearing from some silly public figures, it will be a high quality route directly into the city centre) will be useful to you. It would drop you off in Clondalkin village, and then you've got a 15 minute walk to the Green Isle, which is maybe an extra 5 minutes compared to the 13? The trade-off is that the D3 will have a 10 minute peak frequency compared to the 12 minute peak frequency of the 13.

Only the 68 is going local (256), while the 69 will become the 63 and will remain at the same frequency.

In addition, you will now have access to the new 255 which will offer you a 15 minute peak-hour frequency connection between Red Cow Luas and the Boot Rd/Fonthill Rd junction.

The combination of the 255 and the D3 largely negates the loss of the 151 imo. There's only a small section of the New Nangor Road not covered by the D3 - the rest of the 151 route is covered.

magicbastarder · 26-07-2018 11:25pm

noelfirl wrote: »

Would you defend this sort of crap from the NBRU and it's surrogates about BusConnects, Alek?

the NBRU have officially disowned any posts on boards which purport to be NBRU posts - whoever it is posting here does not have sanction from NBRU head office. partly because it's just counterproductive, i guess.

noelfirl · 26-07-2018 11:31pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the NBRU have officially disowned any posts on boards which purport to be NBRU posts - whoever it is posting here does not have sanction from NBRU head office. partly because it's just counterproductive, i guess.

Christ, that reminds me of a famous one from across the water that pretty much went out as this:

"The BBC asked the BBC for a comment on this story but the BBC told the BBC that no-one from the BBC was available to make a comment at this time".

Moving on...

It is clear that the NTA need to get a grip on the situation and start responding more pro-actively and ultimately, more positively about the changes. My only hope is that people start getting galvanised to quietly respond positively through the online consultation - the outcomes from the original survey make me somewhat hopeful that might be the case.

Stephen15 · 26-07-2018 11:36pm

One thing I don't understand is why are they using random numbers between 1-100 for non spinal radial routes. Why don't they just from 1 upwards rather than random numbers like 63

dashcamdanny · 26-07-2018 11:36pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the NBRU have officially disowned any posts on boards which purport to be NBRU posts - whoever it is posting here does not have sanction from NBRU head office. partly because it's just counterproductive, i guess.

I would hazard a guess the poster/troll is very much anti NBRU and trying to discredit them .
Judging by most of the opinions on this forum , I would also guess the culprit is posting here regularly as someone else.

The Unions have more to be doing than arguing of internet forums..

marno21 · 26-07-2018 11:37pm

The NTA need a PR person pronto who has full knowledge and understanding of these projects and is able to represent on radio/TV/print media where required.

It's ridiculous that a radio segment on BusConnects or similar projects has a union boss talking unchallenged and no one to correct any misinformation.

OldMrBrennan83 · 26-07-2018 11:38pm

This post has been deleted.

fly_agaric · 26-07-2018 11:38pm

Managed to make time this evening to a look at the summary document and the maps/detail in Chapter 7 of full report for areas of interest to me.
IMO overall it looks a good plan & a lot of thought and analysis has gone into it. I hope it goes ahead in conjunction with improvements to bus lanes along the "spines". If people want it to happen they should probably do the survey on the website and say so. Otherwise, I expect what we hear about in the media + from politicians in the coming months will be all of the negatives in exquisite detail and this work will be buried on some dusty shelf due to the usual political meddling and cowardice.

Telchak · 26-07-2018 11:39pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

One thing I don't understand is why are they using random numbers between 1-100 for non spinal radial routes. Why don't they just from 1 upwards rather than random numbers like 63

I would iimagine they don't want to introduce anymore confusion with existing services that would use those numbers.

MJohnston · 26-07-2018 11:39pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The NBRU really are playing a blinder here,and it may well see a few NTA heads rolling yet....it's a good job the relevant Minister can now say...."Well Joe.....That would be a matter for the NTA to decide...."

Easy to play a blinder when they're just making up stuff.

Areas like Finglas and Cabra receiving big improvements to frequency, areas like Tallaght and Ballymun receiving new orbital routes to connect those areas with useful places other than the city centre. Yet O'Leary is on Twitter spreading lies about BusConnects being targeted against working class people.

Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

Yer Da sells Avon · 26-07-2018 11:39pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The Unions have more to be doing than arguing of internet forums..

I don't know about that. The NBRU twitter account (presumably Dermot O'Leary himself) has spent the whole evening arguing with people on the internet.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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