Should all Guards be armed?

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 12:04pm #1

Probably has been discussed before but at a time when it looks like there is a new pretend IRA group up and coming, Atm robberies but armed gangs, drug gangs and local armed feuds it seems to me that the guards are unable to cope or get a handle on these armed criminals. Is arming all Guards the answer?

killanena · 28-04-2019 12:23pm

I don't believe they all should be but there needs to be an increased number and presents of armed units in these area's.

Guards are prone to human error and accidents would happen. You are also putting the guards life more at risk when arming them.

It would also help if more effort was put into preventing and investigating these crimes over issuing tickets. I'm not 100% sure on the matter but I heard guards are given a quota to meet on fines and get in trouble if its not met? A bit ridiculous if that's the case because if there is less fines it just means their doing they're job right.

shopper2011 · 28-04-2019 12:42pm

Gerry G wrote:

Probably has been discussed before but at a time when it looks like there is a new pretend IRA group up and coming, Atm robberies but armed gangs, drug gangs and local armed feuds it seems to me that the guards are unable to cope or get a handle on these armed criminals. Is arming all Guards the answer?

No. Arming Guards solves nothing.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2019 12:45pm

More definitely needed but there are a lot I wouldn't trust with a rubber stamp never mind a gun.

Some are absolutely terrible at their job and should be weeded out for how terrible they are.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 2:01pm

shopper2011 wrote: »

No. Arming Guards solves nothing.

So how do they deal with the current situation in Ireland?

shopper2011 · 28-04-2019 5:46pm

Gerry G wrote:

So how do they deal with the current situation in Ireland?

What situation?

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 5:49pm

Gerry G wrote: »

So how do they deal with the current situation in Ireland?

Have you forgotten the **** ups the armed Garda in this country have already had? Or are you quite young?

punisher5112 · 28-04-2019 5:54pm

The armed units we have are private body guards for the drug gangs.

The armed units do nothing while driving around the city but watch over these scum bags and protect them.

Why aren't they out stopping the scum that are terrorising communities up and down the country.

So much getting away with anything they want.

RiderOnTheStorm · 28-04-2019 6:29pm

I don't agree with arming all gardai for the simple reason that I don't think Irish beurocracy can cope with the increase in training, management, maintenance, repair, replacement, oversight etc that it would bring. We cant train all gardai to drive on blues n 2s. We cant keep serviced vehicles running 24x7 for gardai, ambulance etc. Broadband only in larger stations. . . . We have armed gardai & detective, so no to more guns.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 7:02pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

Have you forgotten the **** ups the armed Garda in this country have already had? Or are you quite young?

Explain to me what f**k ups have the armed guards had? If you're talking about Abbeylara, I wouldn't consider it a f**k up

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 7:03pm

shopper2011 wrote: »

What situation?

I think you know exactly the situation I'm talking about. If you don't, you should watch the news some more

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 7:21pm

Gerry G wrote: »

Explain to me what f**k ups have the armed guards had? If you're talking about Abbeylara, I wouldn't consider it a f**k up

1)John Morris unarmed shot dead.
2) Abbeylara was very much a **** up.
3) Portobello bridge August 2017
4)granard This year
5) Tomas mikaljunas

There's 5 incidents off top of my head. AGS are one of the most incapable police forces the world over.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 7:43pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

1)John Morris unarmed shot dead.
2) Abbeylara was very much a **** up.
3) Portobello bridge August 2017
4)granard This year
5) Tomas mikaljunas

There's 5 incidents off top of my head. AGS are one of the most incapable police forces the world over.

I'll grant you that the last one was a complete balls up but none of the others were and if you think that the Irish guards are one if the most incapable forces in the world then you haven't any experience with police in other countries. Our closest neighbour's the PSNI are a complete shambles compared to the Irish Police

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 7:44pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

More definitely needed but there are a lot I wouldn't trust with a rubber stamp never mind a gun.

Some are absolutely terrible at their job and should be weeded out for how terrible they are.

Fully agree, I've had dealings with Guards in the past who wouldn't find Wally never mind solve a crime

Odelay · 28-04-2019 7:46pm

Gerry G wrote: »

I think you know exactly the situation I'm talking about. If you don't, you should watch the news some more

Is it a secret? Spill the beans.

Blueshoe · 28-04-2019 7:47pm

Gerry G wrote: »

I'll grant you that the last one was a complete balls up but none of the others were and if you think that the Irish guards are one if the most incapable forces in the world then you haven't any experience with police in other countries. Our closest neighbour's the PSNI are a complete shambles compared to the Irish Police

No. The cops here are a disaster. A running joke. Nobody respects them anymore.
And why would they?

Plumbthedepths · 28-04-2019 7:53pm

My son is a Guard as is several of my extended family. None of them want to be armed.

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 7:53pm

Gerry G wrote: »

I'll grant you that the last one was a complete balls up but none of the others were and if you think that the Irish guards are one if the most incapable forces in the world then you haven't any experience with police in other countries. Our closest neighbour's the PSNI are a complete shambles compared to the Irish Police

So portobello bridge when the garda took a man from his car after a cinema date with his partner accused him of an armed robbery then shot him? Was that not a balls up hahaha.

John Morris unarmed burgling a building shot dead, that ok also.

The Garda in Longford shot a man and a dog while under no threat hahaha 3 Garda sacked in those incidents but your saying it was fine. Hahaha

And I'm from Northern Ireland originally well versed in the RUC and PSNI. AGS are worse.

Plumbthedepths · 28-04-2019 7:55pm

Gerry G wrote:

Explain to me what f**k ups have the armed guards had? If you're talking about Abbeylara, I wouldn't consider it a f**k up

Can you explain why you don't think Abbeylara was a f**k up?

pale rider · 28-04-2019 7:55pm

Gardai should have tazers, there are enough guns in the force already, life is tough at the coal face, somewhat easier to slag off behind our keyboards.

Reality is that they are the thin blue line, we need them properly resourced and motivated with a supportive judiciciary and sentences that get served.

sdanseo · 28-04-2019 8:02pm

I believe all police should be armed, the gun culture and problems that go with it are not solved by it but not caused by it either.

I remember a comparison a few years back which referenced a US police shooting incident where more shots were fired than by every police officer in Germany in an entire year. In civilised countries they are there to protect the officers and public, and nothing more, and in the EU generally are used as an absolute last resort.

That said, a root and branch reform of An Garda Síochána is needed with much more urgency. The force is demoralised, dishevelled, ill equipped, understaffed, under-resourced and the average cop underpaid, and top management have been proven to be absolutely corrupt. The cop on the street isn't to blame but probably under performs because they are managed by morons and have morale to match.
Fixing all this is a lot easier than buying 10,000 handguns and should be a prerequisite to arming under-trained and jaded guards.

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 8:05pm

sdanseo wrote: »

I believe all police should be armed, the gun culture and problems that go with it are not solved by it but not caused by it either.

I remember a comparison a few years back which referenced a US police shooting incident where more shots were fired than by every police officer in Germany in an entire year. In civilised countries they are there to protect the officers and public, and nothing more, and in the EU generally are used as an absolute last resort.

That said, a root and branch reform of An Garda Síochána is needed with much more urgency. The force is demoralised, dishevelled, ill equipped, understaffed, under-resourced and the average cop underpaid, and top management have been proven to be absolutely corrupt. The cop on the street isn't to blame but probably under performs because they are managed by morons and have morale to match.
Fixing all this is a lot easier than buying 10,000 handguns and should be a prerequisite to arming under-trained and jaded guards.

Issue is arming the likes of Seamus from Leitrim who was bullied as a child who doesn't go through any psychiatric checks when joining the AGS then next you have trigger happy headcases with a license to kill.

sdanseo · 28-04-2019 8:06pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

Issue is arming the likes of Seamus from Leitrim who was bullied as a child who doesn't go through any psychiatric checks when joining the AGS then next you have trigger happy headcases with a license to kill.

Exactly.

sdanseo wrote: »

Fixing all this is a lot easier than buying 10,000 handguns and should be a prerequisite to arming under-trained and jaded guards.

28-04-2019 8:08pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

So portobello bridge when the garda took a man from his car after a cinema date with his partner accused him of an armed robbery then shot him? Was that not a balls up hahaha.

John Morris unarmed burgling a building shot dead, that ok also.

The Garda in Longford shot a man and a dog while under no threat hahaha 3 Garda sacked in those incidents but your saying it was fine. Hahaha

And I'm from Northern Ireland originally well versed in the RUC and PSNI. AGS are worse.

No Gardai were sacked in those incidents. First one is under investigation, pretty sure the shooting will be found to be lawful.
John Morris was an active inla man on duty.
You don't know what threat the guard in longford was under.
You clearly know nothing about other police forces if you think AGS are one of the worst!

OP, no I don't believe all Gardai should be armed, there are in fact a huge amount of gardai authorised to carry firearms, they may need deploying differently however.

BloodBath · 28-04-2019 8:08pm

No, the majority of guards are idiots who couldn't handle the responsibility of a deadly weapon.

Keep it to the special units for the rare occasions that it is needed.

28-04-2019 8:10pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

Issue is arming the likes of Seamus from Leitrim who was bullied as a child who doesn't go through any psychiatric checks when joining the AGS then next you have trigger happy headcases with a license to kill.

Like the IRA?

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 8:14pm

bubblypop wrote: »

No Gardai were sacked in those incidents. First one is under investigation, pretty sure the shooting will be found to be lawful.
John Morris was an active inla man on duty.
You don't know what threat the guard in longford was under.
You clearly know nothing about other police forces if you think AGS are one of the worst!

OP, no I don't believe all Gardai should be armed, there are in fact a huge amount of gardai authorised to carry firearms, they may need deploying differently however.

3 Garda were sacked. Armed Garda for John Morris was sacked fact, I sat in the court when the Commisioner stated it. Read my posts you will see why.

Garda has been suspended without pay in the Portobello issue and won't be ruled lawful guy had just left swan cinema and was shot, Shane Thomas was the injured man's name.

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 8:14pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Like the IRA?

We knew how to use them.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2019 8:15pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

3 Garda were sacked. Armed Garda for John Morris was sacked fact, I sat in the court when the Commisioner stated it. Read my posts you will see why.

Garda has been suspended without pay in the Portobello issue and won't be ruled lawful guy had just left swan cinema and was shot, Shane Thomas was the injured man's name.

Didn't hear of Portobello one, what's the story behind that one.

NaFirinne · 28-04-2019 8:17pm

Why not be like America and have everyone that wants to be armed - be armed.

Then we won't need guards we can just protect ourselves.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2019 8:18pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

Why not be like America and have everyone that wants to be armed - be armed.

Then we won't need guards we can just protect ourselves.

Could you imagine....

28-04-2019 8:19pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

3 Garda were sacked. Armed Garda for John Morris was sacked fact, I sat in the court when the Commisioner stated it. Read my posts you will see why.

Garda has been suspended without pay in the Portobello issue and won't be ruled lawful guy had just left swan cinema and was shot, Shane Thomas was the injured man's name.

Sorry, you are wrong. Nobody was sacked & that Garda from portobello incident is very much still at work.
Doesn't matter where the guy was coming from.

Plumbthedepths · 28-04-2019 8:20pm

NaFirinne wrote:

Why not be like America and have everyone that wants to be armed - be armed.

America doesn't strike you as f**ked up when it comes to guns? Recently a little boy shot his sister dead with their mothers gun left in the armrest of the family car.

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 8:21pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Didn't hear of Portobello one, what's the story behind that one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/man-shot-during-struggle-with-offduty-garda-is-the-son-of-gangland-murder-victim-36065062.html

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 8:22pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Sorry, you are wrong. Nobody was sacked & that Garda from portobello incident is very much still at work.
Doesn't matter where the guy was coming from.

No he's not at work. Maurice o Sullivan was his name he's off

28-04-2019 8:25pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

No he's not at work. Maurice o Sullivan was his name he's off

Lol.
Right so, now I know you haven't a breeze what you are talking about!
I can ignore your rubbish from now on.

Tomas81 · 28-04-2019 8:26pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol.
Right so, now I know you haven't a breeze what you are talking about!
I can ignore your rubbish from now on.

Ssuuuuure.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 8:39pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Can you explain why you don't think Abbeylara was a f**k up?

Explain to me why it was. A deranged man was firing shots at Guards and Garda cars. What should they have done, read him a bed time story?

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 8:41pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

So portobello bridge when the garda took a man from his car after a cinema date with his partner accused him of an armed robbery then shot him? Was that not a balls up hahaha.

John Morris unarmed burgling a building shot dead, that ok also.

The Garda in Longford shot a man and a dog while under no threat hahaha 3 Garda sacked in those incidents but your saying it was fine. Hahaha

And I'm from Northern Ireland originally well versed in the RUC and PSNI. AGS are worse.

Now you're just talking rubbish, no guards were sacked as a result of this these three incidents. If you can prove me wrong them please do so. I also have experience of the old RUC and new watered down PSNI. They were both shambolic in very different ways

BloodBath · 28-04-2019 8:42pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

Why not be like America and have everyone that wants to be armed - be armed.

Then we won't need guards we can just protect ourselves.

Because it's a ****ty culture to promote that only leads to high rates of gun crimes and murder. Our current gun laws are a model to copy. Not the yanks.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 8:45pm

Tomas81 wrote: »

3 Garda were sacked. Armed Garda for John Morris was sacked fact, I sat in the court when the Commisioner stated it. Read my posts you will see why.

Garda has been suspended without pay in the Portobello issue and won't be ruled lawful guy had just left swan cinema and was shot, Shane Thomas was the injured man's name.

You're a spoofer

Plumbthedepths · 28-04-2019 8:51pm

Gerry G wrote:

Explain to me why it was. A deranged man was firing shots at Guards and Garda cars. What should they have done, read him a bed time story?

You claimed it wasn't a f**k up, onus is on you to back up your claim.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 8:53pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You claimed it wasn't a f**k up, onus is on you to back up your claim.

What logic are you using here?

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 8:54pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You claimed it wasn't a f**k up, onus is on you to back up your claim.

What logic are you using here?

Plumbthedepths · 28-04-2019 9:00pm

Gerry G wrote:

What logic are you using here?

The logic I am using here is I'm familiar with the Abbeylara incident and the subsequent treatment of the McCarthy family by the guards which leads me to believe it was a monumental f**k up. I suggest you learn the responsibility of making a claim and the fact you will be asked to back it up which you have failed to do.

pale rider · 28-04-2019 9:01pm

The off duty Garda that engaged the suspects near Portobello with no lights on their car whilst moving close to the scene of an armed robbery deserves a medal.

Suspect with 40 previous offences, cocaine found in the car, gimme a break, don't tackle an armed police officer, idiots.

As for GSOC, was there a report produced ?

Andrew00 · 28-04-2019 9:02pm

When there's 3 armed scum raiding your home at 2am and you call the guards they're terrified to come out. They take up to an hour to come to the scene

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 9:05pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The logic I am using here is I'm familiar with the Abbeylara incident and the subsequent treatment of the McCarthy family by the guards which leads me to believe it was a monumental f**k up. I suggest you learn the responsibility of making a claim and the fact you will be asked to back it up which you have failed to do.

I'm also familiar with the case. A highly experienced FBI investigator found that the biggest mistake the guards made was that they allowed the standoff to carry on for too long and that and that John Carty should have been shot sooner. As for the Mc Carthy family you're talking about, I don't know who they are but I do know that John Cartys extended family were looking for money from the state after the whole thing. I'm sure they got what they were looking for

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 9:06pm

Andrew00 wrote: »

When there's 3 armed scum raiding your home at 2am and you call the guards they're terrified to come out. They take up to an hour to come to the scene

And this is why I asked the original question. I wonder if they were armed would they be quicker to respond to armed incidents? Maybe, maybe not

Plumbthedepths · 28-04-2019 9:10pm

Gerry G wrote:

I'm also familiar with the case. A highly experienced FBI investigator found that the biggest mistake the guards made was that they allowed the standoff to carry on for too long and that and that John Carty should have been shot sooner. As for the Mc Carthy family you're talking about, I don't know who they are but I do know that John Cartys extended family were looking for money from the state after the whole thing. I'm sure they got what they were looking for

Where the Mc came from I don't know, but his sister and mother were vilified by the guards and the FBI investigation was a tad more critical of the guards than you are suggesting. The final part of your comment speaks to me of your agenda. I hope you are not in the force or have any connection to it.

Infernal Racket · 28-04-2019 9:15pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Where the Mc came from I don't know, but his sister and mother were vilified by the guards and the FBI investigation was a tad more critical of the guards than you are suggesting. The final part of your comment speaks to me of your agenda. I hope you are not in the force or have any connection to it.

No I'm not in the force but I don't live a million miles from Abbeylara.

Should all Guards be armed?

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