What would rural Ireland look like without beef farmers ?

patsy_mccabe · 22-09-2019 3:38pm

To ensure everyone is fed, there will always have to be an oversupply of food. Simple laws of economics dictate that this will also mean low food prices, at least at farmgate anyway. Our problem in Ireland is we export so much beef, so we are always looking for that beef deficit worldwide to sell into. In a way we are victims of our own success. The more we increase output and effeciency, the lower prices will be.

Danzy · 22-09-2019 7:53pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

The idea behind achieving food security is that should the importation of blueberries for example, stop for some reason, Ireland would have enough for it`s own population. But to answer you question, it would take the abolition of the minimum wage and to facilitate this, an income cap would also be needed and this would have to be set quite low, eg 30,000 euro per year.

This is insane stuff, no disrespect intended.

Say my name · 22-09-2019 8:59pm

Danzy wrote: »

This is insane stuff, no disrespect intended.

I think he's trying to hark back to Roman agriculture or even Italian agriculture today run by mafia bosses with illegal migrant labour on minimal pay and living in tin hut camps.
Roman agriculture was run by landlords with slaves doing the labour. Slaves that were the result of the Roman war machine invading new territory. The big estates with the slave labour were needed to provide cheap food to the urban masses to pacify and prevent revolts.
The expansionist campaigns were needed to provide war booty to fund the armies and again to pacify to provide dole to the urban residents and to build the urban infrastructure.

Oh but wait maybe I've messed that up and he's not on about that as he mentioned that no one would earn above 30k? That's the Roman theory out with the landlords and their lavish villas and if today would clearly be earning above 30k.
So that leaves communism.
I'd be all for getting the dole earning urbanites back on the land. Great idea!

Except it's not and didn't work in any of the countries that implemented communism. The land suffered, the food was poor and the stasi disappeared people.

The current situation of European grants based on scale enables the big to get bigger. Then the bigger have to supply a commodity market which ensures a low
food price. The specialist bigger farmer has no time to retail to the consumer as above, supplying a specialist secondary producer who ensures the primary producer produces a quality product through fines and cuts on the product.
The downside to the above with the big farmer getting bigger is the need for labour and the push for greater efficiencies from the secondary producer paying a lower price and grading on quality means labour is needed at the cheapest rates. Answer .... ask a Roman?
Or maybe outsource the whole job to foreign countries.

amacca · 22-09-2019 9:05pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

In a way we are victims of our own success. The more we increase output and effeciency, the lower prices will be.

hmm food harvest 2020

We are victims of listening to vested interests/sleeveens and state quangos imo

if we didn't ceed control of our businesses to parasites we would be in a much better position.

Markcheese · 23-09-2019 2:23pm

amacca wrote: »

hmm food harvest 2020

We are victims of listening to vested interests/sleeveens and state quangos imo

if we didn't ceed control of our businesses to parasites we would be in a much better position.

Hhhhmmmm, yes and no, I suppose farmers were encouraged to go down the suckle cow route.
And various payments grants and quotas have seriously scewed the whole farming business,
but agribusiness is always going to have the ear of government and big farm organisations are going to represent their more active, wealthier members too,
Ultimately ABP ect. dont really care where their profit comes from, as long as they get
A return on investment..

LuasSimon · 23-09-2019 2:29pm

Once beef farmers are gone Fine gaels vision is for the land to be used for wind farms to generate power for Dublin the only place Fine Gael care about !

Markcheese · 23-09-2019 5:08pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Once beef farmers are gone Fine gaels vision is for the land to be used for wind farms to generate power for Dublin the only place Fine Gael care about !

Yawn,
Since fine Gael Are the party of big business--what are the beef factories gonna do without beef cattle?
What do you think fine Gael want All the dairy farmers to do with their bull calves,
Wind turbines don't take up much space...

(or you could say that fine Gael'd be worried about not having any beef for their core city constituency)

realitykeeper · 23-09-2019 8:41pm

gozunda wrote: »

Like Ireland - Holland exports much of its agricultural produce. One major difference however (and something many people dont realise) is that Holland is also a major buyer and reseller of cheaper horticultural produce which they import from Africa and South America. With over seventy percent of imported fruit and eighty percent of imported flowers and vegetables being re-exported.

You talk of self sufficiency - That's the thing. Afaik we are near fully self sufficient in a decent range of agricultural products including beef, sheep meat, butter, potatoes etc.

And again - the point you are missing is Hollands strategic location and access to major European transport hubs as one of the main reasons why their horticultural sector is so large. Holland has five designated "greenports"

And maybe you are ignoring that reland has been highlighted as the most food secure nation
- perhaps if Holland is so wonderful some others might like to live there and as you suggest "dont come back" no? Looks lovely ...

These are separate issues that do not change the basic premise. The Netherlands can feed 500 million. Certainly it makes more sense to import certain products from large farms in Kenya than to grow them in a greenhouse in Holland but again that is a red herring. I did not suggest the Netherlands grow everything that can be grown. I recommend you be more humble, after all, an untalented artist should refrain from criticizing the works of Rembrandt as his time would be better spent improving himself.

gozunda · 23-09-2019 9:59pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

These are separate issues that do not change the basic premise. The Netherlands can feed 500 million. Certainly it makes more sense to import certain products from large farms in Kenya than to grow them in a greenhouse in Holland but again that is a red herring. I did not suggest the Netherlands grow everything that can be grown. I recommend you be more humble, after all, an untalented artist should refrain from criticizing the works of Rembrandt as his time would be better spent improving himself.

Lol. I would recommend you refrain from trying to make daft personal asides and stick with the topic. Or simply stop lecturing on a topic you clearly know little to nothing about.

What would rural Ireland look like without beef farmers ?

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