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Would you agree to 80% income tax if everything was free?

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    #32
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    As opposed to our current system which is working a treat, all of our politicians are good honest lads just out to make the world a better place

    :D:D:D :pac:


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    #33
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    You wouldn't - and that in a nutshell is why it's a ridiculous idea.

    I forgot to mention there is also a universal living wage paid to everyone regardless of whether they work or not. The reasons for working would be pretty much the same as always, to buy nicer/more stuff


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    #34
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Which would barely cover rent for the most basic of dwellings. How you gonna feed yourself? How could you ever save up for a mortgage? How are you gonna enjoy life's little luxuries like going to the cinema, going out for a drink, spending time on your hobbies? Yeah brilliant idea for those on low wage incomes. Ingenious.. .. ..

    People manage all those things on the dole at the moment apart from saving for a mortgage


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    #35
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Your forgetting we only pay such high rent and high mortgage rates and high cost of living because people have that disposable income available. If it was significantly reduced tomorrow what do you think would happen to the cost of living in Ireland? Do you think it would go up or down? Look at what the rest of Europe pays for housing and living costs compared to us!

    And what would happen to people who are already paying mortgages? Their income goes down, existing mortgage cost stays the same. Do you think in your utopian future that people could continue to pay a mortgage that exceeds their income?

    Do you not understand what happened in the last recession? And why would anyone build houses at a loss? Do you think the cost of raw materials would drop overnight?

    I haven’t seen such an idiotic post in a while.


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    #36
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Also you would only have to work 4 days a week.

    The 80% tax would be on all income regardless of what you earn. Other taxes like Prsi and usc would be scrapped.

    Scrapping all the indirect taxes and charges and simply having one easy to calculate tax would mean the state could make massive efficiency gains by getting rid of a ton of paper pushing public sector employees.

    The state would have tens of billions extra each year to spend on hospitals, better public transport etc.

    Would you go for it? I think I would.

    And that concludes a party broadcast for Sinn Fein.

    The big winners are those already not contributing to society and again the biggest losers are those working.

    And then we’re all fcuked in 5 years as the public purse and the economy both go broke simultaneously.


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    #37
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    People manage all those things on the dole at the moment apart from saving for a mortgage


    Most people on welfare get more than 400e a month.. .. ..


    What sorta sauce are you on OP? Gimme the name of it would ya, I could do with a pick-me-up!


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    #38
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    _Brian wrote: »
    And that concludes a party broadcast for Sinn Fein.

    The big winners are those already not contributing to society and again the biggest losers are those working.

    And then we’re all fcuked in 5 years as the public purse and the economy both go broke simultaneously.

    The biggest losers currently are those working who get nothing in return for their taxes, but it’s alright cause at least doleys get a nice Christmas bonus


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    #39
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Everything is free but some people like to eat more than others, or drink more than others. Some people like specific types of clothing and Footwear but there isn't enough to go around.

    So who gets the preference when there is shortage? The armed forces? The politburo? The absolutely colossal government administration? Maybe we may need some sort of Social Credit System?


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    #40
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Most people on welfare get more than 400e a month.. .. ..


    What sorta sauce are you on OP? Gimme the name of it would ya, I could do with a pick-me-up!

    Yes and with the universal living wage everyone on top of your pay will be getting more than 400 per month


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    #41
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    The biggest losers currently are those working who get nothing in return for their taxes, but it’s alright cause at least doleys get a nice Christmas bonus

    Nothing?
    Your ridiculous inaccuracies get ridiculouser


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    #42
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    the problem is the state has a proven track record of wasting any extra money it gets its hands on.

    i think the level of services you get in scandinavian countries for around 50% tax rates but they just seem to have a different mindset, even there politicians get significantly less pay

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #43
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,390 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    quokula wrote: »
    So what we need is AI-powered communism.

    Developed by whom?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #44
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    And what would happen to people who are already paying mortgages? Their income goes down, existing mortgage cost stays the same. Do you think in your utopian future that people could continue to pay a mortgage that exceeds their income?

    .

    There would have to be a transition period, it wouldn’t be an overnight change, just a gradual increasing of tax take


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    #45
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    In other words, OP, you would live on what you earned on a Monday, and hand everything you earn for the rest of the week over to the state?

    No thanks.

    Believing if the country would be better run if we paid higher taxes is silly. We already pay high taxes (many people paying at a marginal rate of 52%) but higher taxes only ever benefit the public sector and the welfare recipients, as governments use them to appease the unions and buy votes.

    No matter how high taxes go, nothing much ever changes for the average working person, who still has to deal with dreadful healthcare, crappy roads, overcrowded trains, Travellers allowed to roam the country doing as they please, etc.

    But instead of dealing with these problems, it's considered a higher priority to "restore" the pay of already well-paid public-sector workers to their dizzying boom-time heights.


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    #46
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    There would have to be a transition period, it wouldn’t be an overnight change, just a gradual increasing of tax take

    As taxes go up to 80%, what happens to employment?

    If someone on a €30k salary can keep only €6k annually (€115 per week) they won't be able to buy very much. A dramatic fall in consumption also implies a dramatic fall in employment as shops and businesses close. So we have more people out of work, dependent on social welfare, necessitating even higher taxes on the few still left in work, leading to even lower employment and eventually a complete economic collapse.

    It's amazing to me that the communists never think of this stuff.


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    #47
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If all is free, why would I work?


    So you could have the free stuff. Stop working and you could lose your house and food.



    It's an interesting idea tbh, but I imagine it would lead to apathy pretty quick.


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    #48
    Gunmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Also you would only have to work 4 days a week.

    The 80% tax would be on all income regardless of what you earn. Other taxes like Prsi and usc would be scrapped.

    Scrapping all the indirect taxes and charges and simply having one easy to calculate tax would mean the state could make massive efficiency gains by getting rid of a ton of paper pushing public sector employees.

    The state would have tens of billions extra each year to spend on hospitals, better public transport etc.

    Would you go for it? I think I would.

    Could do that right now but unions would rip whoever motioned it a new one and strikes for months afterwards.....

    Not much of a socialist paradise if you need to sack thousands of people to achieve it, leaving them out of pocket.


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    #49
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    Mary Blue Watchband wrote: »
    As taxes go up to 80%, what happens to employment?

    If someone on a €30k salary can keep only €6k annually (€115 per week) they won't be able to buy very much. A dramatic fall in consumption also implies a dramatic fall in employment as shops and businesses close. So we have more people out of work, dependent on social welfare, necessitating even higher taxes on the few still left in work, leading to even lower employment and eventually a complete economic collapse.

    It's amazing to me that the communists never think of this stuff.

    Most people already pay about 60 to 65 percent in taxes/charges so it wouldn’t be as dramatic of a change as you seem to think. Also with only working 4 days a week, our employment rate would go up to fill the demand for that day lost, therefore there would be an increase in spending from those who used to be on the dole.


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    #50
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    zanador wrote: »
    In countries with strong social systems and high taxation (think scandinavian) the disparity between the wages of high earners and low earners isn't as great as it is here afaik.

    Low earners in the nordic countries pay eight times as much income tax as those earning below 25 k in Ireland


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    #51
    machaseh
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Also you would only have to work 4 days a week.

    The 80% tax would be on all income regardless of what you earn. Other taxes like Prsi and usc would be scrapped.

    Scrapping all the indirect taxes and charges and simply having one easy to calculate tax would mean the state could make massive efficiency gains by getting rid of a ton of paper pushing public sector employees.

    The state would have tens of billions extra each year to spend on hospitals, better public transport etc.

    Would you go for it? I think I would.

    80% flat tax on all incomes. Ouch.

    So if you are on minimum wage, 1656 quid a month, you will be left with only 332 euros a month. That will not even get you a bed in a shared room in Dublin.

    Meaning the government would have to provide housing for a very large part of the population who earns minimum wage or not much more than it. They are already unable to provide enough council housing and other affordable housing as is. So what is going to happen?

    A massive chunk of the population will go homeless and will turn to the streets.

    Not to mention the needed food stamps etc.


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    #52
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    machaseh wrote: »
    80% flat tax on all incomes. Ouch.

    So if you are on minimum wage, 1656 quid a month, you will be left with only 332 euros a month. That will not even get you a bed in a shared room in Dublin.

    Meaning the government would have to provide housing for a very large part of the population who earns minimum wage or not much more than it. They are already unable to provide enough council housing and other affordable housing as is. So what is going to happen?

    A massive chunk of the population will go homeless and will turn to the streets.

    Not to mention the needed food stamps etc.

    I’ve already said with the massive increase in spending power the government would have they would start building large scale social housing, which would bring down the cost of housing for everyone


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    #53
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Most people already pay about 60 to 65 percent in taxes/charges

    Nonsense. The typical Irish worker earns around €30k and pays about €4.5k in tax, PRSI, and USC. That's 15 percent, not 65 percent.


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    #54
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,292 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    I’ve already said with the massive increase in spending power the government would have they would start building large scale social housing, which would bring down the cost of housing for everyone

    Now it’s a massive increase but a few posts ago it wasn’t as much as you think?


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    #55
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    No thanks.
    I would prefer less taxes and more self reliance.


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    #56
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,292 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Mary Blue Watchband wrote: »
    Nonsense. The typical Irish worker earns around €30k and pays about €4.5k in tax, PRSI, and USC. That's 15 percent, not 65 percent.

    He’s including vat and other government charges.


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    #57
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    salmocab wrote: »
    He’s including vat and other government charges.

    Even when you include VAT, property tax, motor tax, TV license, etc., it still doesn't add up to anywhere close to 65 percent of the typical person's income.


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    #58
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,292 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Mary Blue Watchband wrote: »
    Even when you include VAT, property tax, motor tax, TV license, etc., it still doesn't add up to anywhere close to 65 percent of the typical person's income.

    Oh I’m not arguing that I don’t believe the figures at all just trying to show where he’s at


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    #59
    Captain Flaps
    Registered Users Posts: 1,834 ✭✭✭Captain Flaps


    I decided to take you at face value and ran your numbers against my current salary.

    After factoring in my mortgage (on a 3 bed terraced in south dublin), household bills, health and home insurance, car insurance/tax, saving a few bob, and repaying a loan for redoing the kitchen & bathroom, I still have over 35% of my take-home left for discretionary spending. Going by your proposal I would have 20% and I would still have to pay for holidays, home improvements, car running costs and loads of other stuff before I even began to think about going out for a pint or a cinema trip.

    So, no thanks.


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    #60
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Would all of these things be free for everyone or just those paying 80% tax?

    Who would pay your rent/ mortgage?


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    #61
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    Mary Blue Watchband wrote: »
    Even when you include VAT, property tax, motor tax, TV license, etc., it still doesn't add up to anywhere close to 65 percent of the typical person's income.

    I obviously can’t say what the change would be for each individual person


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