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Would you agree to 80% income tax if everything was free?

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  • 16-10-2019 10:10am
    #1
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭


    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Also you would only have to work 4 days a week.

    The 80% tax would be on all income regardless of what you earn. Other taxes like Prsi and usc would be scrapped.

    Scrapping all the indirect taxes and charges and simply having one easy to calculate tax would mean the state could make massive efficiency gains by getting rid of a ton of paper pushing public sector employees.

    The state would have tens of billions extra each year to spend on hospitals, better public transport etc.

    Would you go for it? I think I would.


«13456

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    #2
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    20% to pay to run a car go on holiday buy food and have a social life? Who’s paying for gym membership, kids gymnastics and to get my house painted? I think you may have massively underestimated what everything else costs


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    #3
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It doesn't matter if you agree or not, this is not sustainable and any system like that will collapse sooner or later, as did all communist systems with no exception.


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    #4
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Also you would only have to work 4 days a week.

    The 80% tax would be on all income regardless of what you earn. Other taxes like Prsi and usc would be scrapped.

    Scrapping all the indirect taxes and charges and simply having one easy to calculate tax would mean the state could make massive efficiency gains by getting rid of a ton of paper pushing public sector employees.

    The state would have tens of billions extra each year to spend on hospitals, better public transport etc.

    Would you go for it? I think I would.

    Eh no.


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    #5
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    Cordell wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if you agree or not, this is not sustainable and any system like that will collapse sooner or later, as did all communist systems with no exception.

    All communist systems to date weren’t true communist systems, they were corrupt and broken systems so you can’t point to them and say it doesn’t work


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    #6
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    So on a salary of 32k, 25600 would be tax and 6400 after for me to work with?

    Eh, that's not going to work out too well. You'll push out any prospective workers. Which happened with USC. You also won't encourage workers to come from abroad, so our skillsets and experience will narrow down.
    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    All communist systems to date weren’t true communist systems, they were corrupt and broken systems so you can’t point to them and say it doesn’t work

    The purity doesn't matter.


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    #7
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    Well, that scenario is not one where "everything is free". As somebody who works, doesn't live in state-gifted accommodation, doesn't own property, doesn't have children, for now doesn't need regular and expensive health care, only uses the DART twice a day do go and come from work (about 100 euro / month)...what you're making "free" for me would be 700 Euro/year of motor tax and 1200 Euro/year of Irish Rail tickets. Ah yeah, and the TV license, whoo hoooo!

    I'm already very much a net contributor to the revenue as we speak, and I've been for the last 10+ years.


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    #8
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    How do you foresee the economic and social implications of such an idea?
    I assume you're aware of these factors.


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    #9
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    salmocab wrote: »
    20% to pay to run a car go on holiday buy food and have a social life? Who’s paying for gym membership, kids gymnastics and to get my house painted? I think you may have massively underestimated what everything else costs

    If you counted all the indirect taxes and charges you pay in a year as a % of your tax home pay you might be surprised


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    #10
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    If you counted all the indirect taxes and charges you pay in a year as a % of your tax home pay you might be surprised

    So minimum wage would also be scrapped?
    Someone on 2k a month would be left with 200e to survive.
    Do you see a flaw here?


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If all is free, why would I work?


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    #12
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Well, that scenario is not one where "everything is free". As somebody who works, doesn't live in state-gifted accommodation, doesn't own property, doesn't have children, for now doesn't need regular and expensive health care, only uses the DART twice a day do go and come from work (about 100 euro / month)...what you're making "free" for me would be 700 Euro/year of motor tax and 1200 Euro/year of Irish Rail tickets. Ah yeah, and the TV license, whoo hoooo!

    Your forgetting we only pay such high rent and high mortgage rates and high cost of living because people have that disposable income available. If it was significantly reduced tomorrow what do you think would happen to the cost of living in Ireland? Do you think it would go up or down? Look at what the rest of Europe pays for housing and living costs compared to us!


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    #13
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    bear1 wrote: »
    So minimum wage would also be scrapped?
    Someone on 2k a month would be left with 200e to survive.
    Do you see a flaw here?

    No it would be 400e


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    #14
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    All communist systems to date weren’t true communist systems, they were corrupt and broken systems so you can’t point to them and say it doesn’t work

    :) Decent attempt, I'll give you that :)


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    #15
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    NO


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    #16
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Also you would only have to work 4 days a week.

    The 80% tax would be on all income regardless of what you earn. Other taxes like Prsi and usc would be scrapped.

    Scrapping all the indirect taxes and charges and simply having one easy to calculate tax would mean the state could make massive efficiency gains by getting rid of a ton of paper pushing public sector employees.

    The state would have tens of billions extra each year to spend on hospitals, better public transport etc.

    Would you go for it? I think I would.
    If I'm on the current minimum wage that leave me about €77 a week to survive.


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    #17
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,607 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    All communist systems to date weren’t true communist systems, they were corrupt and broken systems so you can’t point to them and say it doesn’t work

    Of course you can. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Communism ultimately requires some sort of omnipotent authority to administer the division and allocation of resources and services and this authority will end up rotting to the core.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #18
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Your forgetting we only pay such high rent and high mortgage rates and high cost of living because people have that disposable income available. If it was significantly reduced tomorrow what do you think would happen to the cost of living in Ireland? Do you think it would go up or down? Look at what the rest of Europe pays for housing and living costs compared to us!

    The high costs for rent and purchasing are because its a very small market compared to the demand. That guy in Cork over the weekend had to live in a tent within a few months of coming back to Ireland because he couldn't afford accommodation. We have councils all over the country paying hotels, for people to reside in, because they can't afford to rent.


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    #19
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    is_that_so wrote: »
    If I'm on the current minimum wage that leave me about €77 a week to survive.

    With all the money the government would have at their disposal there would be extensive social housing built which would provide very low cost housing to those who need it and push down the cost of housing for everyone else due to better overall supply in the market


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    #20
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    With all the money the government would have at their disposal there would be extensive social housing developments which would provide very low cost housing to those who need it and push down the cost of housing for everyone else due to better overall supply in the market

    The Governments tax bucket has a large hole in it already, dear liza, dear liza.


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    #21
    zanador
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭zanador


    In countries with strong social systems and high taxation (think scandinavian) the disparity between the wages of high earners and low earners isn't as great as it is here afaik.


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    #22
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Of course you can. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Communism ultimately requires some sort of omnipotent authority to administer the division and allocation of resources and services and this authority will end up rotting to the core.

    As opposed to our current system which is working a treat, all of our politicians are good honest lads just out to make the world a better place


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    #23
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    If you counted all the indirect taxes and charges you pay in a year as a % of your tax home pay you might be surprised

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised it’s massive and they still can’t give all the things you want them to. You’ve picked random figures given this no real thought and started a thread.


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    #24
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,607 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    As opposed to our current system which is working a treat, all of our politicians are good honest lads just out to make the world a better place

    Beats the hell out of censorship & gulags.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #25
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If all is free, why would I work?

    You wouldn't - and that in a nutshell is why it's a ridiculous idea.


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    #26
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    With all the money the government would have at their disposal there would be extensive social housing built which would provide very low cost housing to those who need it and push down the cost of housing for everyone else due to better overall supply in the market

    Lol


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    #27
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭quokula


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Of course you can. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Communism ultimately requires some sort of omnipotent authority to administer the division and allocation of resources and services and this authority will end up rotting to the core.

    So what we need is AI-powered communism.


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    #28
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,356 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    Obviously not everything being free, but the big ticket items like healthcare, education, transport, childcare, property tax, motor tax, tv licenses, bin charges etc.

    Healthcare , already free. But pay 2,500 for private healthcare for the family
    Education , already free
    Transport, should be free. Tax saver card currently costs 1500 , but I y me so don’t need one
    Childcare, my wife minds them for free.
    Motor tax , private cars should be discouraged so don’t agree
    Tv licence. 160 a year
    Bins, 300 a year.

    So you are asking would I Continue to pay 3,960 or 80% tax. I think I’ll stick to the way it is


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    #29
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    No it would be 400e


    Which would barely cover rent for the most basic of dwellings. How you gonna feed yourself? How could you ever save up for a mortgage? How are you gonna enjoy life's little luxuries like going to the cinema, going out for a drink, spending time on your hobbies? Yeah brilliant idea for those on low wage incomes. Ingenious.. .. ..


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    #30
    Newuseruntaken
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Newuseruntaken


    salmocab wrote: »
    I wouldn’t be at all surprised it’s massive and they still can’t give all the things you want them to. You’ve picked random figures given this no real thought and started a thread.

    Of course I plucked the 80 % figure out of the sky, that doesn’t matter, the point of this thread is, would you pay a significantly larger amount of taxes for a significantly better run country with more social protections etc


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    #31
    10fathoms
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭10fathoms


    Newuseruntaken wrote: »
    All communist systems to date weren’t true communist systems, they were corrupt and broken systems so you can’t point to them and say it doesn’t work

    That old chestnut...


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