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Special offers Cheltenham.

  • 21-02-2020 9:43pm
    #1
    Charlie George
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 539 ✭✭✭


    If we could put up special offers for Cheltenham from the bookies, eg, skybet free €20 bet on first race on each day last year.

    Today - Betfair sportsbook 6/1 A plus tard /Ryanair.


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    carq
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭carq


    Sky only 10€ this year it seems


  • #3
    Earendil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Earendil


    carq wrote: »
    Sky only 10€ this year it seems

    Ffs! It started at €50!!


  • #4
    Andrew00
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    There's too many Cheltenham threads


  • #5
    jj mac
    Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭jj mac


    carq wrote: »
    Sky only 10€ this year it seems

    And this year there won't be any bog on specials so if your horse drifts you won't get the better price ( this is with skybet)


  • #6
    Charlie George
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Charlie George


    Ladbrokes - - 15 days to go special - - champ (rsa) and appreciate it (bumper) 15/1.


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  • #7
    Slattsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    Charlie George wrote: »
    Ladbrokes - - 15 days to go special - - champ (rsa) and appreciate it (bumper) 15/1.

    What can you get on with Labrokes out of interest for these specials?


  • #8
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Paddy power normally goes money back if horse 2/3/4 on all races opening day. Bet365 offer last year was bet a fiver on the big race and get a fiver free bet on each day.


  • #9
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Charlie George wrote: »
    Ladbrokes - - 15 days to go special - - champ (rsa) and appreciate it (bumper) 15/1.

    Don't do it to yourself.

    There will be 66/1 winners, just take your time.

    The bumper is the hardest race to win in the world, never mind back the winner. We have no concept of what the best horse in the race is, no one does.

    Champ is also probably opposable at his price, although I actually think the only people who overestimate the horse is the bookies. Given he fell last time out I would be a bit iffy about him. Seemed to slightly choke in last years Ballymore and given City Island has not turned up this year, what can you make of the form at all? The 7/2 is all wrong and unless he got above 5's I would not be interested. There are 24 races, there is value everywhere you look.

    But following bookies "specials" does not work.

    Anyway if it came through Ladbrokes would be jumping through hoops to try to find a way of not paying you. They do that. You will have marked the docket incorrectly or some other garbage.


  • #10
    maximo31
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭maximo31


    Betfair today : Shiskin (Sup) , Envoi Allen (Ballym) & Appreciate It (Bump) @ 25/1.

    Bet365 : Benie Des Dieux , Envoi Allen , Tiger Roll & Paisley Park @ 18/1.

    No idea of max amount allowed for any.

    SkyBet : Shiskin & Al Boum Photo @ 18/1.


  • #11
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I see Appreciate It is popular with the Bookies combos...….

    If I owned a horse I would name him Bargepole. No one would go near it.


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  • #12
    Slattsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    I do think Champ wins the RSA. Even though I've Allaho backed. At 3/1 he's a not be for me. Although if he drifted to 5s or part of a special, I'd be tempted to throw a few bob on him.


  • #13
    Croll
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Croll


    maximo31 wrote: »
    Betfair today : Shiskin (Sup) , Envoi Allen (Ballym) & Appreciate It (Bump) @ 25/1.

    Bet365 : Benie Des Dieux , Envoi Allen , Tiger Roll & Paisley Park @ 18/1.

    No idea of max amount allowed for any.

    SkyBet : Shiskin & Al Boum Photo @ 18/1.

    That bet365 one looks alright , usually use these special offers to decide who not to back , appreciate its inclusions tell me he’s one anyways


  • #14
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Slattsy wrote: »
    I do think Champ wins the RSA. Even though I've Allaho backed. At 3/1 he's a not be for me. Although if he drifted to 5s or part of a special, I'd be tempted to throw a few bob on him.

    I would have a bet at 5's, win only, but nothing less. But I would be having say 70% of my race stake on, definitely looking for a bigger priced saver. There are some nice double figure prices still in the race. In saying that I find it alarming that he is in combos at all, bookies don't get it wrong often.

    If Copperhead goes here I would find it difficult not to back it. He looks like a dirty great big tank of a thing. Won lovely last time.

    If anyone had the time or the energy it would be a great idea to start a roster of horsies that get offered in combos and offers over the next few weeks. It would certainly help with short lists and finding out what hasn't a hope and isn't being backed.


  • #15
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    IAMAMORON wrote: »

    Champ is also probably opposable at his price, although I actually think the only people who overestimate the horse is the bookies. Given he fell last time out I would be a bit iffy about him. Seemed to slightly choke in last years Ballymore and given City Island has not turned up this year, what can you make of the form at all? The 7/2 is all wrong and unless he got above 5's I would not be interested. There are 24 races, there is value everywhere you look.

    You think the 7/2 is 'all wrong', i.e, you think he should be much bigger, yet you'd actually back him at 5/1?


  • #16
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,213 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    .
    Anyway if it came through Ladbrokes would be jumping through hoops to try to find a way of not paying you. They do that. You will have marked the docket incorrectly or some other garbage.

    I must say that Ladbrokes is probably the one firm that I have never had an issue with either in terms of paying out the correct amount or accepting a large bet.


  • #17
    Charlie George
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Charlie George


    Boylesports - shiskin (sh) notebook (a) - - 14/1


  • #18
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Charlie George wrote: »
    Today - Betfair sportsbook 6/1 A plus tard /Ryanair.
    Charlie George wrote: »
    Ladbrokes - - 15 days to go special - - champ (rsa) and appreciate it (bumper) 15/1.
    maximo31 wrote: »
    Betfair today : Shiskin (Sup) , Envoi Allen (Ballym) & Appreciate It (Bump) @ 25/1.

    Bet365 : Benie Des Dieux , Envoi Allen , Tiger Roll & Paisley Park @ 18/1.

    No idea of max amount allowed for any.

    SkyBet : Shiskin & Al Boum Photo @ 18/1.
    Charlie George wrote: »
    Boylesports - shiskin (sh) notebook (a) - - 14/1

    I am starting a sheet on "bookie doubles". Can everyone please feel free to post any specials they see over the next few weeks, particularly preformed " doubles" and any offers on certain horses.

    For example in the last week Shiskin is turning up in offers by Boyles, Sky Bet and Betfair. That would be a big Shiskin negative for me.

    If you are a broker reading this I would advise you to not rip the piss, I will be double checking offers and if I find out you are telling porkies you are straight onto the naughty step, GOAT.

    It will be good to see what horses the bookies are happy to lay. They definitely get info on horsies that are not going well, they have eyes and ears in all the big stables, it is their business to know.


  • #19
    Croll
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Croll


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I am starting a sheet on "bookie doubles". Can everyone please feel free to post any specials they see over the next few weeks, particularly preformed " doubles" and any offers on certain horses.

    For example in the last week Shiskin is turning up in offers by Boyles, Sky Bet and Betfair. That would be a big Shiskin negative for me.

    If you are a broker reading this I would advise you to not rip the piss, I will be double checking offers and if I find out you are telling porkies you are straight onto the naughty step, GOAT.

    It will be good to see what horses the bookies are happy to lay. They definitely get info on horsies that are not going well, they have eyes and ears in all the big stables, it is their business to know.
    Good idea


  • #20
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    You think the 7/2 is 'all wrong', i.e, you think he should be much bigger, yet you'd actually back him at 5/1?

    To be honest Hulkster I shít bricks as soon as the bookies start throwing horsies into doubles and the like.

    I think Champ is a right good horse, but even coming second in the Ballymore was kind of an underperfomance last year. He won then at Aintree. He has fallen this year when in a commanding lead.

    The horse has a serious engine, but I am just not convinced that 7/2 is the correct price. Who has he beaten this year? The double offer is slighty worrying insofar as while I think there is a lot of scope for the bumper horse to lose, he is still been risked in one. I would be a lot happier to not see him included in any garbage offers from bookies. Somebody somewhere in Lambourn has scratched their head or is not convinced. He would not be thrown in one otherwise.

    At this point I will be waiting for the day and if I see him arriving into doubles then I would not be backing him at all. Just saying.


  • #21
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    To be honest Hulkster I shít bricks as soon as the bookies start throwing horsies into doubles and the like.

    I think Champ is a right good horse, but even coming second in the Ballymore was kind of an underperfomance last year. He won then at Aintree. He has fallen this year when in a commanding lead.

    The horse has a serious engine, but I am just not convinced that 7/2 is the correct price. Who has he beaten this year? The double offer is slighty worrying insofar as while I think there is a lot of scope for the bumper horse to lose, he is still been risked in one. I would be a lot happier to not see him included in any garbage offers from bookies. Somebody somewhere in Lambourn has scratched their head or is not convinced. He would not be thrown in one otherwise.

    At this point I will be waiting for the day and if I see him arriving into doubles then I would not be backing him at all. Just saying.

    I was merely pointing out the oxymoron. You can't the 7/2 is 'all wrong' yet also think the 5/1 is too big and worth a bet.

    Don't worry atal about which horses bookies put in specials. 1) These specials aren't thought up by traders, they're done by marketing types who couldn't tell you the difference between a handicap and a maiden. They're just picking ones at random. 2) Even if it was done by the racing team, do you really think the likes of Skybet or Boyles know anything? They employ a few lads to copy prices from other firms and take the rest from external feeds.

    Don't be afraid of these specials at all, they're often decent value for the small stakes punter.


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  • #22
    Croll
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Croll


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Even if it was done by the racing team, do you really think the likes of Skybet or Boyles know anything? They employ a few lads to copy prices from other firms and take the rest from external feeds.

    Don't be afraid of these specials at all, they're often decent value for the small stakes punter.

    They're not fools either, from what Ive seen sky bet boosts very rarely win, there is definitely some thought put into the selections for these specials anyways


  • #23
    NaiveMelodies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies


    Croll wrote: »
    They're not fools either, from what Ive seen sky bet boosts very rarely win, there is definitely some thought put into the selections for these specials anyways

    Apparently they give the relevant jockeys 50% of all proceeds of these types of bets to ensure they stop their respective horses.


  • #24
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Croll wrote: »
    They're not fools either, from what Ive seen sky bet boosts very rarely win, there is definitely some thought put into the selections for these specials anyways

    With respect, this is pub talk nonsense. If the likes of Boyles or Sky had moles in in Hendersons yard, why wouldnt they go 5/1 champ and hoover up all the extra turnover rather than a crappy special. What's the max stake on them, a tenner? If I went into Boyles trying to have 100 on that special id be offered a fiver at sp. Specials are a way to keep recreational punters interested for cheap. You can't get a decent stake on them and restricted punters can't back them. Skybet budget to lose a few % a year on promotions and boosts. It's a retention tool


  • #25
    Croll
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Croll


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    With respect, this is pub talk nonsense. If the likes of Boyles or Sky had moles in in Hendersons yard, why wouldnt they go 5/1 champ and hoover up all the extra turnover rather than a crappy special. What's the max stake on them, a tenner? If I went into Boyles trying to have 100 on that special id be offered a fiver at sp. Specials are a way to keep recreational punters interested for cheap. You can't get a decent stake on them and restricted punters can't back them. Skybet budget to lose a few % a year on promotions and boosts. It's a retention tool
    Not saying they have moles but I’m sure they take into account the quantities placed and by who along with potential loss when picking these horses , if champ hasn’t been backed much and minella indo has then I’m sure they would use champ for their specials rather than minella to cover themselves. These specials are probably the majority of Cheltenham bets they get for the 3/4 weeks leading up to the festival so I’m sure It’s not just marketing heads throwing them in into specials as they like!


  • #26
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Honestly mate, that's exactly what it is. 15 days to go, so the marketing head looks at it and knows he has to find 2 or 3 horses around 12s or 13/1 and boost it up to 15/1. He goes for favourites as they'll be better known to punters. Finds Siskin and champ, 3.5x4=13.0. Hey presto. The special is thrown in for a max stake of 10 to 20 quid and limited to a max of 10k total stakes. Skybet will probably take the full 10k, Boyles will struggle to take 1. The trading room doesn't give a toss and it's about 0.05% of total turnover for the day. Marketing lad will do the same thing tomorrow for 14/1 and so on


  • #27
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Genuine punters won't have an issue letting the thread be aware what the doubles are. Given the success the bookies have laying these mug doubles I don't think it is a fluke of marketing either. I respect the Hulkster's comments on max bets, this is true enough. But I don't for a second believe that the doubles are invented willy nilly by a twenty something airhead just out of Mountjoy Square, there is too much money at stake. If 100,000 mugs have a tenner swipe at a 6/1 Envoi Allen Altior double that costs the firm £ 6 million. I am not getting into the issue of 6 million being a small number, but in my experience bookies don't give away money for nothing either.

    If anyone thinks that bookies are not getting information they are not being real. I respect how unethical it is and how much trouble stables would be in if it was ever proved... but it is everywhere.

    I used to know a bookie's runner who would be laying off big bets all over the city on a Sunday morning. He would be able to tell me straight out the non triers in any of the maidens, he was rarely wrong. The same non triers would be getting their price collapsed all morning. The bookies make the money off the mugs who don't have the info, even at a tenner a pop.

    It is a corrupt game, please believe. Anyone saying it's not is usually knee deep in it. Pub talk or no pub talk.

    I have seen far too many odds on shots tailed off at 4/7. Most of them were splattered all over the double screens in the morning.


  • #28
    Croll
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Croll


    Yeah look Hulk Im not saying your wrong but I do believe there is a bit more thought put into these specials than you suggest.

    Also: Benie, Tiger, A plus tard 14-1 PP,
    Appreciate it , A plus Tard 9-1 SkyBet


  • #29
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    I was merely pointing out the oxymoron. You can't the 7/2 is 'all wrong' yet also think the 5/1 is too big and worth a bet.
    .

    I respect the confusion. My best answer to this is that given my uncertainty about the horse I would prefer to lose less on a bigger price. As it is I don't see any value in backing him at 7/2, I lose an extra 40% of my stake if I could back him on the day at 5/1. My angle is that I am not satisfied at his price, given his form. The double offer just enforces my opinion. But at some point there would be a price available which will endorse my risk.


  • #30
    lemush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭lemush


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I am starting a sheet on "bookie doubles". Can everyone please feel free to post any specials they see over the next few weeks, particularly preformed " doubles" and any offers on certain horses.

    For example in the last week Shiskin is turning up in offers by Boyles, Sky Bet and Betfair. That would be a big Shiskin negative for me.

    He's the bloody Supreme favorite, the first race of the festival so of course he's going to be in offers from the high st firms. To say it's a negative is ridiculous to put it mildly.


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  • #31
    Charlie George
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Charlie George


    Betfair sportsbook 14/1--a plus tArd (r) benie(mh) tiger (xc).


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