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West classified as 'region in decline' by EU

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    What kind of companies do you think would relocate there?

    what kind of things are stopping companies moving there, and what might a government do about them?


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ncounties wrote: »
    I'm from the North West, so feel I am allowed to comment harshly on this. Not everywhere on this island can be a Dublin or Belfast.

    im from the west, have lived in the northwest, currently live in Dublin and i feel im allowed to comment clearly on this:

    Nowhere on this island should be a Dublin


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    #34
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Then how come there are US companies in Derry, Letterkenny, Donegal town and Sligo already then?

    Hence why I used "many" and not "all".


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I don't think many US business executives would fancy the idea of a four drive from Dublin to Donegal after a transatlantic flight to visit their Irish factory.

    May have something to do with it.

    is this an argument for having everything in dublin, or against

    because i could see it either way tbh


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    #36
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    what kind of things are stopping companies moving there, and what might a government do about them?

    You have to own a car. There's no public transport. No airports. No other big business. Impossible to attract staff. Given the multi national profile of our workforces these days what foreign person in their right mind would want to live there? Oh and it rains twice as much as Dublin.


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    #37
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Deleted User wrote: »
    is this an argument for having everything in dublin, or against

    because i could see it either way tbh

    It's not an argument either way.

    Merely a point that may effect the decision.


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    #38
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Dublin can't handle the jobs it has. There is not the staff or the accommodation for them.
    Sligo, Castlebar, Carrick, Roscommon, Ballina, are all reasonably sized towns. They have the personnel(dependent on position) and accommodation available. You are literally talking a few hundred jobs to improve places like these. The high skilled % required could be refilled by attracting those that left for Dublin to come back. It would regenerate all these towns fairly quickly. For the past 10 years it appears to be to shove all jobs to Dublin even if they can't take them. If further tax breaks are required it should be look at.
    Have you seen how much land is available when flying into Dublin ? There is farm land inside the m50 circle. There is still appalling land use! Dublins issues are entirely of moronic planning and government making !


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    #39
    johnmcdnl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    ncounties wrote: »
    Im 29 and live in Dublin because its a large multicultural city, with lots of jobs, further education opportunities and clubs to enjoy. 20 mins from my house is one of the largest airports in Europe, which means I can go for a city break of a weekend, and not have to take the Friday off. If my company relocated to my hometown, with the same salary and benefits, I would stay in Dublin.

    Which is completely understandable. I'm in a fairly similar boat myself and as I said the older I get the more likely it is that I'll never go back.
    If however there were 5-10 major employers in my Hometown and more opportunities for a career as s whole it'd have been a lot more likely that I stay there after college even if I didn't have an airport. The region would be more vibrant and attractive to live in long term as a whole. But it isn't, so you have to get on with it. I have worked with some lads though who have managed to get work back in some of the employers mentioned in the tread and they've moved back and bought homes there so I guess there certainly are people out there happy to make the move if the opportunity is there. I know others who would consider doing the same, and of course I also know others who like you would never go back.

    I just don't think the issue of one of housing or services that are not perfect is the big issue. Theres plenty's of people from the region that would prefer to live at home with poorer services than having to up sticks and move to Dublin for good. It's simply the lack of opportunity or hope of making a career for yourself in the region thats the reason for it slowly dying.


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    #40
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    You have to own a car. There's no public transport. No airports. No other big business. Impossible to attract staff. Given the multi national profile of our workforces these days what foreign person in their right mind would want to live there? Oh and it rains twice as much as Dublin.

    By that logic then there would be no big companies at all in the West and north west.

    And the fact that there is proves that your criteria are incorrect.

    Obviously the head honchos at some big companies seem to think they can operate and do well in the arse end of nowhere.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    You have to own a car. There's no public transport. No airports. No other big business. Impossible to attract staff. Given the multi national profile of our workforces these days what foreign person in their right mind would want to live there? Oh and it rains twice as much as Dublin.

    jaysus TM when you're for an agenda no obstacle is too impossible for you

    when culchies want modern facilities and jobs you can't throw up problems quickly enough

    now, tbf, i asked you to list some things a govt could do to effect a desirable change, and youve done that above.

    you just presented them as bizarre impossibilities as opposed to.....things to work on


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    #42
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    Which is completely understandable. I'm in a fairly similar boat myself and as I said the older I get the more likely it is that I'll never go back.
    If however there were 5-10 major employers in my Hometown and more opportunities for a career as s whole it'd have been a lot more likely that I stay there after college even if I didn't have an airport. The region would be more vibrant and attractive to live in long term as a whole. But it isn't, so you have to get on with it. I have worked with some lads though who have managed to get work back in some of the employers mentioned in the tread and they've moved back and bought homes there so I guess there certainly are people out there happy to make the move if the opportunity is there. I know others who would consider doing the same, and of course I also know others who like you would never go back.

    I just don't think the issue of one of housing or services that are not perfect is the big issue. Theres plenty's of people from the region that would prefer to live at home with poorer services than having to up sticks and move to Dublin for good. It's simply the lack of opportunity or hope of making a career for yourself in the region thats the reason for it slowly dying.

    A perfect summation.

    Some folk in Ireland simply want Dublin to turn into MegaCity One and us all to move there.


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    #43
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    jaysus TM when you're for an agenda no obstacle is too impossible for you

    when culchies want modern facilities and jobs you can't throw up problems quickly enough

    now, tbf, i asked you to list some things a govt could do to effect a desirable change, and youve done that above.

    you just presented them as bizarre impossibilities as opposed to.....things to work on

    I don't really know what the Gov can do to attract business up there. I don't see how it could be in any way attractive to businesses, I'm just listing reasons why they wouldn't want to go there.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I have to say its fairly dismal to see a thread about rural Ireland's decline as evidenced by EU status so quickly turn into

    "ah dem culchies want to live up a hill and get de broadband and de bus to de door five toimes a day de styupid culchies"

    the discussion from de culchies lads is quite clearly asking what the government could and should do to offer reasonable prospects of work and a fair social environment without moving to Dublin or the Greater Dublin Vortex.

    the condescension and simple lack of understanding about whats being asked is, well as i said, dismal


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    #45
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't really know what the Gov can do to attract business up there. I don't see how it could be in any way attractive to businesses, I'm just listing reasons why they wouldn't want to go there.
    Yes your approach is looking at the negatives. Why not look at the positives?

    But don't you see, big companies are there now and have been for decades.

    I know you can't understand what would take them there, but something did.

    And if they decided they could locate there 25, 30, 35 years ago, then there is absolutely no reason why, with political will and incentives, more wouldn't locate there in the future .

    The eu obviously think the same and hopefully their focus might bring about the conditions that more might say, " I'll tell you what Donegal/Sligo/Derry/wherever looks like an option ".

    But that's not to say that more will still want to be in the capital. That's fair enough too.


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    #46
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I think it's a worldwide trend that people want to live in cities and not in rural areas


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't really know what the Gov can do to attract business up there. I don't see how it could be in any way attractive to businesses, I'm just listing reasons why they wouldn't want to go there.

    what can the govt do to change this?

    you listed a few things so you clearly know what they are.

    why continue to respond to the question as if it were about a business making a choice today, as opposed to a govt seeking to improve the situation?


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    #48
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I think it's a worldwide trend that people want to live in cities and not in rural areas

    Maybe so. But not ALL people. How these cities will cope with the numbers in the future will bring it's own issues.

    In Ireland, do more people live in cities than not I wonder?
    Edit: just googled it. Apparently 2.9 mill live in urban areas out of 4.7mill population


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I think it's a worldwide trend that people want to live in cities and not in rural areas

    global warming is a worldwide trend

    I'll expect to see you shrugging your shoulders about it when next we meet in a greta thread, shall i?


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    #50
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    what can the govt do to change this?

    you listed a few things so you clearly know what they are.

    why continue to respond to the question as if it were about a business making a choice today, as opposed to a govt seeking to improve the situation?

    They could somehow try to regenerate some of the towns up there and put some adequate transport links in place? Maybe try and shift people away from dispersed living and back into towns and villages? This might attract more business, but I don't think a large cohort of Irish people want to live like this.


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    #51
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    global warming is a worldwide trend

    I'll expect to see you shrugging your shoulders about it when next we meet in a greta thread, shall i?

    I don't know what you mean.


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    #52
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    dispersed houses are more expensive to provide services to. post, electricity, broadband, etc.

    i will try to dig it out, but i once read that ireland uses four times as much miles of copper per capita in providing electricity to domestic customers than in the UK.


    England is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe.

    We are not trying to support Ireland and Irish people, not turn us into England, they did that for long enough.


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    #53
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Maybe so. But not ALL people. How these cities will cope with the numbers in the future will bring it's own issues.

    In Ireland, do more people live in cities than not I wonder?
    Edit: just googled it. Apparently 2.9 mill live in urban areas out of 4.7mill population

    Dublin could cope with a lot, lot more people if we just planned things better and got our sh*t together. There's so much free space here and it's so low density, the same goes for Cork and Limerick.


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    #54
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    NIMAN wrote: »
    There seems to be a 100% belief that all companies are saying "we want to be in Dublin and nowhere else".

    How do people know this?

    Well is it not telling that after Dublin, Cork gets the most outside investment, followed by Limerick, Galway and Waterford? There's a clear pattern of companies favouring larger population centres. Google "100/200 jobs announced" and all the results are news items from these cities or large towns like Dundalk.

    Nobody's saying no companies want to set up in rural areas. It's just that the their first 20 ports of call are larger cities and towns.

    I hope you don't think I'm saying nobody should set up in western regions or that we should discourage it. My point is that it's too easy and simplified to blame the government.


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    #55
    Nollog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Nollog


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't really know what the Gov can do to attract business up there. I don't see how it could be in any way attractive to businesses, I'm just listing reasons why they wouldn't want to go there.

    You listed transport as a reason, when the government could invest in transport with the help of the EU to fix that.
    Recently I saw an image comparing 1920 to 2020 rail network and you can see the lack of transport investment in the north west quite plainly.


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    #56
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,991 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Maybe try and shift people away from dispersed living and back into towns and villages? This might attract more business, but I don't think a large cohort of Irish people want to live like this.

    Think I might have answered this already.

    Why do we need to shift into our nearest towns?

    We have cars, well most of us do. We can drive to work. Same as all those folk driving into Dublin every day, clogging up the m50. By your logic those people should move into Dublin to live. Come on Meath, Kildare, Wicklow folk, what are you doing living out there in the sticks, get your ass into Dublin to live.

    You don't have to live in the town you work in. All the people who work in Derry don'tnecessarily live there. Same for Letterkenny, Sligo, Donegal town etc.


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    #57
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    You listed transport as a reason, when the government could invest in transport with the help of the EU to fix that.
    Recently I saw an image comparing 1920 to 2020 rail network and you can see the lack of transport investment in the north west quite plainly.

    In fairness they haven't invested in rail anywhere really.


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    #58
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    the discussion from de culchies lads is quite clearly asking what the government could and should do to offer reasonable prospects of work and a fair social environment without moving to Dublin or the Greater Dublin Vortex.
    And what is it that Government could and should do that hasn't been tried?

    Its not about a lack of capital spend, because such investment isn't concentrated in Dublin.
    https://www.dublinchamber.ie/media/news/february-2018/dublin-ranks-2nd-lowest-for-government-capital-spe

    The Chamber’s analysis of government spending across all 26 counties over the past 7 years found that the county of Dublin - made up of the four Dublin Local Authorities - was the second lowest recipient of capital funding on a per capita basis.

    Dublin Chamber said that the findings counter the commonly misplaced claim that Dublin is a dominant recipient of Government investment.

    Capital spending by central government to Local Authorities in Dublin averaged €228 per capita over the 7 year period. This equated to less than half of the national average over the period.

    Only the county of Carlow received less (€202) investment per person than Dublin. The biggest beneficiaries include Sligo (€729), Kilkenny (€705) and Leitrim (€623).
    For the sake of argument, Shannon Airport doesn't lack flights because the airport isn't able to handle them.

    So what is it that you think Government should do, that hasn't already been done?

    We've had incentives for local business, incentives for FDI, investment in infrastructure, EU money poured into farming.

    The cost of housing is so low that, effectively, folk moving to Longford avoid a six figure cost.

    So what is it that's missing that Government can do?


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    They could somehow try to regenerate some of the towns up there and put some adequate transport links in place? Maybe try and shift people away from dispersed living and back into towns and villages? This might attract more business, but I don't think a large cohort of Irish people want to live like this.

    progress

    agenda item 1 agreed

    1. the govt should put adequate transport links in place in areas designated lacking in same, taking full advantage of EU matched funding to do so

    agenda item 2 agreed

    2. the govt should commence a programme of regeneration in strategically-identified towns in order to promote these locations as options for business, citizens and services and to encourage citizens away from the acknowledged undesirable option of dispersed settlement.


    god help us we are in bosom agreement


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    #60
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Think I might have answered this already.

    Why do we need to shift into our nearest towns?

    Maybe we don't need to populate towns, I just would have thought bustling towns were more attractive for investment.


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    #61
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Why do we need to shift into our nearest towns?
    you mean as opposed to villages? as mentioned, if you live say 4km from the nearest population centre, provision of facilities becomes much more expensive. and you become welded to the car.


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