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Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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    #4052
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    Quote from your link. Thanks
    ""If the works are largely internal and do not interfere with the overall external appearance of the house, apart from the provision of Velux-style roof lights within the rear roof slope which constitutes exempted development, this does not require planning permission.""

    They may not require planning permission but that does not mean that the conversion meets the standards required for a bedroom
    Ceiling height ,proper access ,proper emergency escapes.
    You will see a lot of houses on Myhome with bedrooms in the attic but they are described as having attic conversions ,not bedrooms
    There are rules and regulations that have to be followed before you can call an attic conversion a bedroom
    The valuer probably knew this
    The EA knew it as well but as you rightly said you can charge more for a proper 5 bed than you can for a 4 bed


  • Options
    #4053
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    Quote from your link. Thanks
    ""If the works are largely internal and do not interfere with the overall external appearance of the house, apart from the provision of Velux-style roof lights within the rear roof slope which constitutes exempted development, this does not require planning permission.""

    Another more relevant quote from the link

    Perhaps the most important issue of all to consider is the type of room which is being created as a result of the attic conversion. If you want to achieve the status of a “habitable room” ie a living room or a bedroom, then there are a significant number of obligations to be met in order to comply with the relevant building regulations such as a minimum head height of 2.4m over two-thirds of the floor area of the room, a minimum 800mm wide staircase not exceeding a 42 degree pitch and with a clear minimum head height of 2 metres.

    More significantly, one needs to consider the means of escape from the room in the event of a fire. In this respect, I would point out that the majority of houses in Ireland are either single or two-storey houses, and the regulations applicable to these houses are quite modest.

    Fire regulations
    However, a three-storey house brings you into a different category and a whole host of new regulations which need to be met from a fire escape point of view. If converting an attic in a typical two-storey house to a proper “habitable room”, there is an obligation to ensure a safe means of escape from the room in the event of a fire and this would involve having to upgrade the fire-resistant standard to the staircase at both ground and first floor level; to include upgrading the enclosing walls to one-hour fire-resistant construction and upgrading the doors to half-hour fire-resistant construction complete with self-closing devices. This can be fairly disruptive on the existing house and will give rise to considerable additional cost.


    While the regulations are very well intentioned and are there to ensure a minimum quantity of construction, the difficulty posed by the restrictions of the existing house very often means that most “attic conversions” are considered as non-habitable or storage rooms. Before you commit to undertaking an attic conversion, you do need to be fully aware of all the implications of what you are taking on and what you will end up with and, in this respect, it is important to get professional advice. A chartered building surveyor should be more than happy to guide you through the process.


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    #4054
    WeeCuppaCha
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭WeeCuppaCha


    I have been sale agreed since late September on a second hand property. Booking deposit paid, valuation carried out. Loan offer has been issued. Only thing outstanding on my end is a survey.

    However, contracts have not been signed (although received by my solicitor). The issue is that the vendor originally purchased the property from receivers. I believe it was the construction company themselves who went into liquidation, so he bought it new.

    It transpires that he never received a Discharge letter at that time. This is what has us at an impasse now. Vendor’s solicitor is chasing the original Receivers’ solicitor to get this document. My solicitor advises we cannot proceed without it.

    Anyone any similar experience or insight? I’m being reassured by the vendor (direct sale), that it’s all easily sorted. He told me weeks ago that this final document is mere days away from being issued. No sign as yet. I’m feeling some real concern that this will cause the whole thing to fall through.


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    #4055
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    brisan wrote: »
    Another more relevant quote from the link

    Perhaps the most important issue of all to consider is the type of room which is being created as a result of the attic conversion. If you want to achieve the status of a “habitable room” ie a living room or a bedroom, then there are a significant number of obligations to be met in order to comply with the relevant building regulations such as a minimum head height of 2.4m over two-thirds of the floor area of the room, a minimum 800mm wide staircase not exceeding a 42 degree pitch and with a clear minimum head height of 2 metres.

    More significantly, one needs to consider the means of escape from the room in the event of a fire. In this respect, I would point out that the majority of houses in Ireland are either single or two-storey houses, and the regulations applicable to these houses are quite modest.

    Fire regulations
    However, a three-storey house brings you into a different category and a whole host of new regulations which need to be met from a fire escape point of view. If converting an attic in a typical two-storey house to a proper “habitable room”, there is an obligation to ensure a safe means of escape from the room in the event of a fire and this would involve having to upgrade the fire-resistant standard to the staircase at both ground and first floor level; to include upgrading the enclosing walls to one-hour fire-resistant construction and upgrading the doors to half-hour fire-resistant construction complete with self-closing devices. This can be fairly disruptive on the existing house and will give rise to considerable additional cost.


    While the regulations are very well intentioned and are there to ensure a minimum quantity of construction, the difficulty posed by the restrictions of the existing house very often means that most “attic conversions” are considered as non-habitable or storage rooms. Before you commit to undertaking an attic conversion, you do need to be fully aware of all the implications of what you are taking on and what you will end up with and, in this respect, it is important to get professional advice. A chartered building surveyor should be more than happy to guide you through the process.

    Either way im happy with the price weather its classed as a 4 or 5 bed. Its going to be our forever home heres hoping. So not looking at the resale stipulation of 4 or 5 bed. Only thing i would be looking at the 4 or 5 bed senario is when getting it valued for LTV mortgages rates.


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    #4056
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    brisan wrote: »
    They may not require planning permission but that does not mean that the conversion meets the standards required for a bedroom
    Ceiling height ,proper access ,proper emergency escapes.
    You will see a lot of houses on Myhome with bedrooms in the attic but they are described as having attic conversions ,not bedrooms
    There are rules and regulations that have to be followed before you can call an attic conversion a bedroom
    The valuer probably knew this
    The EA knew it as well but as you rightly said you can charge more for a proper 5 bed than you can for a 4 bed
    Estate agents had said that it is now classed as a bedroom so im assuming its up to code. Solicitor looking into that.


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    #4057
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    Estate agents had said that it is now classed as a bedroom so im assuming its up to code. Solicitor looking into that.

    You believe the EA ??
    Unless the solicitor has all the codes to hand and comes out to inspect it ,there is little he can do
    Get a qualified building inspector to check the conversion and see if it and the rest of the house has been upgraded to meet the regulations
    I would say the chances are slim though


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    #4058
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    brisan wrote: »
    You believe the EA ??
    Unless the solicitor has all the codes to hand and comes out to inspect it ,there is little he can do
    Get a qualified building inspector to check the conversion and see if it and the rest of the house has been upgraded to meet the regulations
    I would say the chances are slim though

    Iv just recieved a copy of the report for the conversion. Wont bore you will the details but as regards a fire safety cert it is exempt.
    See link
    https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1997/act/496/revised/en/html#ARTICLE11

    Now Scroll down to exemptions under 11(2) (b)


  • Options
    #4059
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    Iv just recieved a copy of the report for the conversion. Wont bore you will the details but as regards a fire safety cert it is exempt.
    See link
    https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1997/act/496/revised/en/html#ARTICLE11

    Now Scroll down to exemptions under 11(2) (b)
    Section 11(2) refers to single story buildings
    Is your house a bungalow ?


    (2) For the purposes of this Part, the following buildings are exempted—

    ( a) a single storey building which—


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    #4060
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    brisan wrote: »
    Section 11(2) refers to single story buildings
    Is your house a bungalow ?


    (2) For the purposes of this Part, the following buildings are exempted—

    ( a) a single storey building which—
    (2) (b) Not (2) (a)


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    #4061
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    (2) (b) Not (2) (a)

    I would still get a chartered building surveyor to make a final decision
    Neither you or I have the qualifications to make a decision
    I would guess the EA has not got the relevant qualifications either

    While the regulations are very well intentioned and are there to ensure a minimum quantity of construction, the difficulty posed by the restrictions of the existing house very often means that most “attic conversions” are considered as non-habitable or storage rooms. Before you commit to undertaking an attic conversion, you do need to be fully aware of all the implications of what you are taking on and what you will end up with and, in this respect, it is important to get professional advice. A chartered building surveyor should be more than happy to guide you through the process.


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    #4062
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    brisan wrote: »
    I would still get a chartered building surveyor to make a final decision
    Neither you or I have the qualifications to make a decision
    I would guess the EA has not got the relevant qualifications either

    Thanks, this morning I have received a copy of the engineer's opinion on compliance with building
    regulations in regards the conversion. All above board. No pun intended.


  • Options
    #4063
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    Now back to the Valuer from the bank. Now that i can call it a 5 bed on paper because i have the paperwork to back it up. You think i should get him back out to revalue it as a 5bed.


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    #4064
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    Smiley11 wrote: »
    Viewed a house in Cork city yesterday..dear god photos can be so deceiving! EA felt "price point is accurate for the current climate" & tried to compare a definitive kip to others nearby that sold for similar & +100k houses in better &/or far superior conditions. I felt so deflated to be honest. This house isn't cheap but has never had a heating system, damp everywhere, "not sure" if its been underpinned, asbestos lean to & thats just the start of it. 10+ viewings lined up for one day next week. I actually think the EA was surprised that we said it was a project too far for us �� This veritable kip would need a minimum of 200k to upgrade it & looking at the PPR, would soar past any sale on the same road on record in terms of purchase + renovation cost total. I'm sure it will sell well but I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money for a shell of a house. The market is so strange & unpredictable at present. Saw a sale agreed sign going up on a house I'd love yesterday. Listed at 1.25 mill & sale agreed within 6 weeks. The country seems to be awash with money at the moment.
    1.25mill WOW.
    I would be buying a patch of land in kinsale looking out onto the sea and build one heck of a house for that money.


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    #4065
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    Hey all, just wondering about booking deposit on new builds. How long do they have till they’re supposed to close? I see many houses reserved then they re pop up again


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    #4066
    Cash_Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭Cash_Q


    Gaeilgeoir_Dub wrote:
    I feel your pain Cash_Q, when we went sale agreed back in August we were told by the EA that probate was lodged and would be issued soon. We naively believed it would be well sorted by the time we were ready to close. Our solicitor told us there were no more queries on the probate and it was expected in 4-5 weeks, it will be 5 weeks on Thursday. I don't believe though with the move to 8-10 weeks we'll see it this side of Christmas!

    squareboy007 wrote:
    Probate on our house just got issued yesterday. It took 11 weeks and one day from the date the application was submitted.


    Solicitor phoned today to say probate is granted! Woohoo!

    Now hoping KBC will move quickly so we can close ASAP! Anyone with recent experience of length from request for drawdown to finance coming through?


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    #4067
    Smiley11
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Smiley11


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    1.25mill WOW.
    I would be buying a patch of land in kinsale looking out onto the sea and build one heck of a house for that money.

    So would I if I had that budget! Everything at every budget seems to be flying in Cork at the moment.


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    #4068
    Meraf
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Meraf


    Sale agreed from end of September - started chasing vendor solicitor for contract and just got information today that apparently he posted contract with original deed documents by regular post last Wednesday... There is no sign of contract with my solicitor and Both solicitors are based in Dublin. No sign of contract with my solicitor as of today..

    Do you think that vendor solicitor is trying to delay ?


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    #4069
    theboringfox
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭theboringfox


    Cork City seems to be very tight on supply. I have been looking for around 18 months and it is slim pickings
    But I also appreciate I am looking only in a couple areas. My fear now is that minute something comes up that there is so much pent up demand you will see crazy bidding wars and fear is leads to significantly over paying.


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    #4070
    CarMc
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭CarMc


    Financesetc. wrote: »
    Thanks, this morning I have received a copy of the engineer's opinion on compliance with building
    regulations in regards the conversion. All above board. No pun intended.

    Opinion on compliance cert and exemption from planning permission does not mean it can be classed as a bedroom. It just means the conversion of the attic complies with building reg and does not need planning.

    To be classed as a bedroom I think it has to meet additional fire safety rules and all internal doors in the entire house have to be replaced with fire safety doors. There may be more requirements.

    I viewed loads of 3 bedroom houses with attic conversions where the attic was being used as a 4th bedroom and they have never been advertised as 4 bedroom houses and the EAs have always been careful to advise that they are not classed as 4 bedroom houses.

    The compliance cert you have is not enough to class it as a 5 bed house. Maybe go back to your surveyor for more information on it.


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    #4071
    Pink11
    Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    We have done extensive research with our engineer into converting attic. You’ll have to do serious build Reg work before it can be deemed habitable i.e a bedroom. Floors have to be dropped etc it’s a massive job. EAs lie and bluff, they just tell you what you want to hear


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    #4072
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    theboringfox wrote: »
    Cork City seems to be very tight on supply. I have been looking for around 18 months and it is slim pickings
    But I also appreciate I am looking only in a couple areas. My fear now is that minute something comes up that there is so much pent up demand you will see crazy bidding wars and fear is leads to significantly over paying.
    Would that be because of the multination tech phara companies based there, big workforce, readily mortgaged approved buyers ready to buy.


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    #4073
    Financesetc.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Financesetc.


    CarMc wrote: »
    Opinion on compliance cert and exemption from planning permission does not mean it can be classed as a bedroom. It just means the conversion of the attic complies with building reg and does not need planning.

    To be classed as a bedroom I think it has to meet additional fire safety rules and all internal doors in the entire house have to be replaced with fire safety doors. There may be more requirements.

    I viewed loads of 3 bedroom houses with attic conversions where the attic was being used as a 4th bedroom and they have never been advertised as 4 bedroom houses and the EAs have always been careful to advise that they are not classed as 4 bedroom houses.

    The compliance cert you have is not enough to class it as a 5 bed house. Maybe go back to your surveyor for more information on it.
    If the Enginner has assesed it and has signed off on it who am i with little expertise to disagree or argue what he has said. What do i say that his qualification and report mean notting but the paper there written on. If he cant sign off on the then who can?


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    #4074
    connemaraharpy
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭connemaraharpy


    Went sale agreed 2 weeks ago. Survey done, bank is sending out a valuer, awaiting contracts... Does anyone have any experience of the valuer process--is it simply a box ticking exercise? Or do they ever challenge the sale price?


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    #4075
    Draco
    Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    Draco wrote: »
    Well that was a nope. Signed for the house I'm buying, only signed for the apartment I'm selling yesterday. Looking at closing the apartment on the 16th and the house the same week.

    At least I'm nearly there.
    ....and the 16th was a pipe dream. Finally closed on the apartment yesterday, bank still dragging their heels on final approval for the house. Vendors are getting itchy feet at this stage. I'm lucky in that we'd somewhere lined up to go to since the house is a complete renovation job anyway so didn't need to move right in.


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    #4076
    Starlord_01
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭Starlord_01


    connemaraharpy wrote: »
    Went sale agreed 2 weeks ago. Survey done, bank is sending out a valuer, awaiting contracts... Does anyone have any experience of the valuer process--is it simply a box ticking exercise? Or do they ever challenge the sale price?

    We had ours done on Monday and got the report Tuesday afternoon, seemed a fairly straightforward exercise and they just referenced properties around the area they had valued which sold for close to the same.

    I think they will only flag it if the value is way off market trends.


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    #4077
    connemaraharpy
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭connemaraharpy


    Starlord_01 wrote: »
    We had ours done on Monday and got the report Tuesday afternoon, seemed a fairly straightforward exercise and they just referenced properties around the area they had valued which sold for close to the same.

    I think they will only flag it if the value is way off market trends.

    Great, thanks for this! We got into a small bidding war, such is the Dublin property market these days. I'm happy with the price we agreed on--we did double check the property price register, viewed a good few houses in the area, and spoke to EAs about what had sold recently etc. It'll be interesting to see the report.


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    #4078
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    connemaraharpy wrote: »
    Went sale agreed 2 weeks ago. Survey done, bank is sending out a valuer, awaiting contracts... Does anyone have any experience of the valuer process--is it simply a box ticking exercise? Or do they ever challenge the sale price?

    Valuer will flag to the bank if they think the bank needs to see the survey


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    #4079
    cubatahavana
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭cubatahavana


    connemaraharpy wrote: »
    Went sale agreed 2 weeks ago. Survey done, bank is sending out a valuer, awaiting contracts... Does anyone have any experience of the valuer process--is it simply a box ticking exercise? Or do they ever challenge the sale price?

    Not in my case. Have done two valuations and both were fine. Same price as the selling price


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    #4080
    cubatahavana
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭cubatahavana


    connemaraharpy wrote: »
    Great, thanks for this! We got into a small bidding war, such is the Dublin property market these days. I'm happy with the price we agreed on--we did double check the property price register, viewed a good few houses in the area, and spoke to EAs about what had sold recently etc. It'll be interesting to see the report.

    My property is selling for the highest price for an apartment in the area. As far as I know, the purchasers had no issues with the valuer. EA said that they have a track of all the bids so it shouldn’t be an issue


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    #4081
    whatever76
    Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭whatever76


    theboringfox wrote: »
    Cork City seems to be very tight on supply. I have been looking for around 18 months and it is slim pickings
    But I also appreciate I am looking only in a couple areas. My fear now is that minute something comes up that there is so much pent up demand you will see crazy bidding wars and fear is leads to significantly over paying.

    Cork City has been like that for last 4 ~years and has not changed in Covid from what I can see - I started looking 2016 and eventually bought in 2019 after few set backs - Friends now trying to buy and hitting same problem as me its like a repeat of my experience even though they have bigger budget !! Supply in decent locations in city are slim pickings for under 400k and huge demand. Just need to keep viewing and hope right one comes up for you. Its torture though


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