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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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Comments

  • #2152
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Loooking into the future, the "new normal" that will be coming our way.
    We could see less need for transport systems of any kind in the near future.


    We have really reached a point in life where business are being forced to look again at what is important and which jobs "must" be done in the head office as there has been an enforced working from home whenever possible regime in place, many of those jobs may remain permanently "off site", thus reducing transport needs indefinetely.

    I’m afraid you might be right. The new normal could look like the now for a substantial amount of time. Until future traffic volumes are established nothing will happen, and that’s assuming the powers that be decide to spend on infrastructure.


  • #2153
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    There are recessions and then there are recessions like this current one that has arrived quicker that a fooking bullet train into Tokyo. I'm following so many Rail based infrastructure threads and some of the crap being posted is genuinely incredible even when "positive" posters are reminded of the absolute financial meltdown that awaits us. Ireland has just spent the cost of Metrolink in 3 months.:eek: We will be spending even more over the coming year and all on keeping our head above the water line.

    Of course if this magic money at cheap borrowing rates continues, there'll be so much other stuff in the queue that the WRC will be so far down as to make it more irrelevant than a fart in the wind.


  • #2154
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    monument wrote: »
    You are suggesting builing roads is better than rail, you might not be suggesting more and more roads but the next person will be. The problem is that road building cannot get away from this:

    That graphic isn't really relevant to roadbuilding in Ireland atm. It's very applicable to widening the M50 or building a second M50 further out. It's not relevant in most of the roads being built in Ireland, which are technically the first engineered roads along the applicable route.

    The three major road projects of the next 10 years in Connacht are*:

    1. N5 Westport-Turlough (25km)
    2. N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge (34km)
    3. N17 Knock-Collooney (55km)

    For the majority of the existing roads relevant above, they are 19th century roads built for donkey and carts that have progressively had tarmac thrown on them. They run through villages, around twisty corners, are not properly horizontally or vertically aligned, have plenty of accesses and junctions etc. All of these contribute to significant safety issues.

    The roadbuilding will mean that these routes have routes designed for efficient motorised transport. Not just cars, but public transport (buses) and trucks also. Transport of freight is key to economic development in the areas these roads are running through. This point is often made about the N5. If the N5 isn't upgraded it disconnects Mayo from the primary port of the country and makes manufacturing in Mayo difficult. There is a balance between environmentalism and regional equality here that needs to be struck.

    The N17 project is key here because it would make the Tuam-Collooney rail link totally redundant. An N17 dual carriageway would provide a corridor for efficient inter city bus services.

    * I have omitted the M6 Galway Ring Road here because it is a debatable piece of infrastructure and not inter urban like the others.


  • #2155
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    marno21 wrote: »

    The three major road projects of the next 10 years in Connacht are*:

    1. N5 Westport-Turlough (25km)
    2. N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge (34km)
    3. N17 Knock-Collooney (55km)

    Agree with all you say would add to the "in Connacht" list the Mullingar-Longford DC, of course not in Connacht but of critical importance for Supply chain and good express bus links to the west. The endless debate about the WRC is tiresome and needs to be finally put to bed and put out of its misery.

    Just within Connacht would also dearly like to see Sligo-Bundoran done as well a dangerous and busy road. Would not even have to be DC, Bundoran bypass standard would be fine but realise they only do DC for these upgrades now. Get on with them all and this debate on opening a winding Victorian alignment of a closed railway would come to an end.


  • #2156
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    westtip wrote: »
    Agree with all you say would add to the "in Connacht" list the Mullingar-Longford DC, of course not in Connacht but of critical importance for Supply chain and good express bus links to the west. The endless debate about the WRC is tiresome and needs to be finally put to bed and put out of its misery.

    Just within Connacht would also dearly like to see Sligo-Bundoran done as well a dangerous and busy road. Would not even have to be DC, Bundoran bypass standard would be fine but realise they only do DC for these upgrades now. Get on with them all and this debate on opening a winding Victorian alignment of a closed railway would come to an end.

    Its not even to Bundoran though is it, and in the previous post its not even from Knock.

    Its basically the Northern border of Co. Sligo to the Southern border of Co. Sligo. Their TDs over the past three decades have a lot to answer for in terms of the lack of infrastructure.


  • #2157
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    Its not even to Bundoran though is it, and in the previous post its not even from Knock.

    Its basically the Northern border of Co. Sligo to the Southern border of Co. Sligo. Their TDs over the past three decades have a lot to answer for in terms of the lack of infrastructure.

    Yep you are dead right it is just the road within Sligo really, Yes the TDs up here needed to apply regional pressure.


  • #2158
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    So it is acceptable for over a billion euro to be spent on roads connecting the likes of Knock (population approx 1000) with Collooney (population approx 1600) and Westport (population approx 6500) to by pass Castlebar? Funny how all these are acceptable if the greenway gets the green light. What was/is the economic benefit of these roads? All of the individual roads projects cost substantially more than the railway but that's no problem.
    I am not against or objecting to the roads projects in any way, just observing the different mindset people have towards the two project types.


  • #2159
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I think it is because it stands to reason that motorways move goods in Ireland quickly and efficiently and offer this over vast areas whereas railways at present only do this coincidentally i.e. a couple of locations that happen to sit on top of the line that want to move stuff to a location that also happens to sit on the line.

    Why would someone in Ballina put a container on a train at, say, Claremorris to be taken to, say, Ringaskiddy when you could just drive it on a lorry from Ballina to the port on a motorway? The former is complicated and slow, the latter is straightforward and direct.


  • #2160
    Figerty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Figerty


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Looking into the future, the "new normal" that will be coming our way.
    We could see less need for transport systems of any kind in the near future.


    We have really reached a point in life where business are being forced to look again at what is important and which jobs "must" be done in the head office as there has been an enforced working from home whenever possible regime in place, many of those jobs may remain permanently "off site", thus reducing transport needs indefinitely.

    have we also reached the point where people are willing to share space on a train, bus etc (planes included) with others or will prefer to go in the safer envirornment of a car where they control access.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Spanish-Flu-pandemic-of-1918/


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  • #2161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Figerty wrote: »
    have we also reached the point where people are willing to share space on a train, bus etc (planes included) with others or will prefer to go in the safer envirornment of a car where they control access.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Spanish-Flu-pandemic-of-1918/


    It is likely that there will be a short-term aversion to public transport, but this will be the same aversion to being in public spaces that are crowded. It's hard to imagine people suddenly switching to cars as they simply won't have anywhere to park them at the other end (just imagine an extra few thousand car commuters arriving in town).


    Some jobs will become permanently home based with frequent tripe to the "mother-ship" for management to maintain control - unless that factor also changes.


  • #2162
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I think it is because it stands to reason that motorways move goods in Ireland quickly and efficiently and offer this over vast areas whereas railways at present only do this coincidentally i.e. a couple of locations that happen to sit on top of the line that want to move stuff to a location that also happens to sit on the line.

    Why would someone in Ballina put a container on a train at, say, Claremorris to be taken to, say, Ringaskiddy when you could just drive it on a lorry from Ballina to the port on a motorway? The former is complicated and slow, the latter is straightforward and direct.

    Motorways connecting this island have only really been established in recent times though with less than 1000km of motorways built. Are all industries sitting on the motorway to be served by these motorways? Yes, great if you want to move from Galway to Dublin for example.

    I don't know why they would not just use Ballina rail freight yard in the first place though?

    Pity the railway was not built before we constructed out industries and before we increased our population centers and we could have planned around them, upgraded and improved them and maybe not required so many roads, trucks and cars, oh wait!


  • #2163
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Motorways connecting this island have only really been established in recent times though with less than 1000km of motorways built. Are all industries sitting on the motorway to be served by these motorways? Yes, great if you want to move from Galway to Dublin for example.

    I think that proves my point. Despite the relatively limited network, its the road network that is the most efficient way of transporting goods in this country.

    If moving goods by rail was a more efficient mode than by roads in Ireland, wouldn't we be moving goods en masse by rail?


  • #2164
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I think that proves my point. Despite the relatively limited network, its the road network that is the most efficient way of transporting goods in this country.

    If moving goods by rail was a more efficient mode than by roads in Ireland, wouldn't we be moving goods en masse by rail?
    Rail transport these days cannot match the efficiency of road transport for short to medium distance journeys, simply due to the way they're configured.
    If the rail hubs (gone) were operated in a similar way to DHL/DPD/FedEX etc, with road transport used for "the last mile", rail for the long haul stuff & road for the cross country routes (Tracks gone) then rail freight could become more viable.


    For example it would be viable for a depot in Galway, to collect in the west and load a mixed use train to Dublin and another depot transfer to road again for delivery in Dublin


  • #2165
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Deleted User wrote: »


    For example it would be viable for a depot in Galway, to collect in the west and load a mixed use train to Dublin and another depot transfer to road again for delivery in Dublin

    Would it really though considering the distance is only 200km? I can understand this arrangement if you're talking '000s of kilometres, but why use two lorries and a train when one lorry + 1 driver can do it?


  • #2166
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Would it really though considering the distance is only 200km? I can understand this arrangement if you're talking '000s of kilometres, but why use two lorries and a train when one lorry + 1 driver can do it?
    I did say "mixed use train"
    The train part of the route is at near zero cost as it is using a passenger train with a freight* car in it.
    * realistically a modified passenger car.


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  • #2167
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Pity the railway was not built before we constructed out industries and before we increased our population centers and we could have planned around them, upgraded and improved them and maybe not required so many roads, trucks and cars, oh wait!

    The railways were built to suit the Victorian gentry class of the day. In fairness, they did pay for it. "Industry" moves to a different beat and if it wants railways it gets and got railways. "Industry" don't want railways.:(


  • #2168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    The railways were built to suit the Victorian gentry class of the day. In fairness, they did pay for it. "Industry" moves to a different beat and if it wants railways it gets and got railways. "Industry" don't want railways.:(
    Wrong, railways were originally built to move freight, passengers were secondary.


  • #2169
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    The railways were built to suit the Victorian gentry class of the day. In fairness, they did pay for it. "Industry" moves to a different beat and if it wants railways it gets and got railways. "Industry" don't want railways.:(

    Sorry I meant passengers for industry not so much freight. For example IDA business parks along and either side of an existing rail line. Athenry or Tuam for example. Why would industry not want improved access for the people working in them? I'd say the industry in Parkmore in Galway wishes the rail passed by the roundabout now.
    But that's just wishful thinking now, who knows what's going to happen in the next 24 months 🙈


  • #2170
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I think that proves my point. Despite the relatively limited network, its the road network that is the most efficient way of transporting goods in this country.

    If moving goods by rail was a more efficient mode than by roads in Ireland, wouldn't we be moving goods en masse by rail?

    not necessarily, no, as road transport is currently very very cheap.
    rail isn't exactly very inefficient these days anyway, processes have been majorly streamlined. the issue with it now is that most of the hubs have gone and wouldn't be brought back.
    donvito99 wrote: »
    Would it really though considering the distance is only 200km? I can understand this arrangement if you're talking '000s of kilometres, but why use two lorries and a train when one lorry + 1 driver can do it?

    the problem is that 1 truck and 1 driver from all of these places add up to a serious amount which is only going to grow and grow, and the costs and space to facilitate them will i would imagine have to grow as well.
    we will not be able to keep expanding and spending to facilitate this indefinitely, i would imagine.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2171
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭serfboard


    end of the road wrote: »
    the problem is that 1 truck and 1 driver from all of these places add up to a serious amount which is only going to grow and grow, and the costs and space to facilitate them will i would imagine have to grow as well.
    If you drive on the busy three-lane motorways in England, the left lane is nearly always completely full of trucks, and the middle lane can quite often have faster trucks overtaking slower ones, leading to the outside lane being the only suitable one for driving in.

    However, their population density is far greater than ours, so I don't anticipate us having that problem on most routes for many decades. (And even for the busy M50, we were only at 8% HGV traffic for 2019).

    Of course, as with passengers, the problem is how to navigate the cities, so much as P&R is the answer for non-freight, depots on the outskirts of cities are the answer for trucks. And in fact, if driverless trucks come to pass, this is exactly how they will operate.


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  • #2172
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wrong, railways were originally built to move freight, passengers were secondary.

    Really? We are talking about the WRC here, right? What freight was envisaged when the WRC was instated in the 1890s -1900's?


  • #2173
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Sorry I meant passengers for industry not so much freight. For example IDA business parks along and either side of an existing rail line. Athenry or Tuam for example. Why would industry not want improved access for the people working in them? I'd say the industry in Parkmore in Galway wishes the rail passed by the roundabout now.
    But that's just wishful thinking now, who knows what's going to happen in the next 24 months ��

    If a FDI wanted to locate to Tuam and required the railway line to be opened as part of that location plan, the railway would be opened. Same would apply to Parkmore and Athenry. Valeo requested a by-pass and cycle lanes and were delivered both.


  • #2174
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Really? We are talking about the WRC here, right? What freight was envisaged when the WRC was instated in the 1890s -1900's?
    Cattle, sheep other agricultural produce don't forget that the alternative was donkey carts on unmade roads!


  • #2175
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Cattle, sheep other agricultural produce don't forget that the alternative was donkey carts on unmade roads!

    yes everything went by rail pre motor vehicle.


  • #2176
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Cattle, sheep other agricultural produce don't forget that the alternative was donkey carts on unmade roads!

    Agreed. Like I said, the railways were built and paid for by the gentry classes of those days.


  • #2177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just going to leave some facts about freight transport in Ireland here

    In the period 2006 to 2018, road freight carried 2,114,979,000 tonnes of cargo while rail carried 8,359,000 in the same period. Thats 2.1 billion versus 8 million. Y axis is in millions below

    511967.png

    The total for rail over that 12 year period, 8,359,000 tonnes, equates to 7% of the volume of road freight in its lowest year, 2012 when 108,078,000 tonnes were carried by road.

    Rail freight is also on a downward spiral over that period

    511965.png

    The tiny red sliver you see at the top of the road freight bars, thats rail freight

    511966.png

    Raw data available at https://statbank.cso.ie/


  • #2178
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Valeo requested a by-pass and cycle lanes and were delivered both.
    I also heard that the reason that natural gas was brought to Tuam was from a Valeo request too.


  • #2179
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Great bit of analysis there, but it says more about the killing off of railfreight than anything else.

    I just had a quick look and the collapse in rail freight in the mid "noughties" is astounding, it's as if someone pulled the plug (which they probably did).

    511971.png

    full image.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=511971&stc=1&d=1588791755

    https://data.gov.ie/dataset/principal-commodities-conveyed-by-rail-000-tonnes-by-commodity-and-year/resource/3620d1c1-a4d1-4d3e-b8da-983a732fc712/view/228a7952-aff5-4c8a-ac5a-c239ca22c731


  • #2180
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I was going to show the longer trend but there wasn't road freight figures to put up as a comparison so I left it from 2006 onwards


  • #2181
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    If a FDI wanted to locate to Tuam and required the railway line to be opened as part of that location plan, the railway would be opened. Same would apply to Parkmore and Athenry. Valeo requested a by-pass and cycle lanes and were delivered both.

    So that’s the answer, continue to let the tail wag the dog and provide ad-hoc services instead of proper infrastructure planning. I suppose it’s worked up to now. Most areas are well served with great infrastructure.


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  • #2182
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Great bit of analysis there, but it says more about the killing off of railfreight than anything else.

    I just had a quick look and the collapse in rail freight in the mid "noughties" is astounding, it's as if someone pulled the plug (which they probably did).

    511971.png

    full image.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=511971&stc=1&d=1588791755

    https://data.gov.ie/dataset/principal-commodities-conveyed-by-rail-000-tonnes-by-commodity-and-year/resource/3620d1c1-a4d1-4d3e-b8da-983a732fc712/view/228a7952-aff5-4c8a-ac5a-c239ca22c731

    IE dropped their containerised freight division in 2005 because it was haemorrhaging cash. Bulk cement died off in the period as well because the quarries chose to move their volumes to road.

    The completion of motorways and major road projects during the late 90s and the 00s meant that the cost of road transport dropped, and rail couldn’t compete over short distances

    There’s no way the winding alignment between Sligo and Claremorris will ever be a viable freight route - the only way to make it work would be a new more direct alignment, which is unlikely given the land acquisition costs etc


  • #2183
    mayo.mick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭mayo.mick


    The closed railway between Claremorris and Collooney, affectionately known as "The Burma Road" (if I remember correctly, from a history tour walk) is 47 miles long with 48 level crossings.

    Swinford Weather



  • #2184
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    mayo.mick wrote: »
    The closed railway between Claremorris and Collooney, affectionately known as "The Burma Road" (if I remember correctly, from a history tour walk) is 47 miles long with 48 level crossings.




    crossings can be closed for the most part.
    that section most certainly won't reopen anyway i expect.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2185
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    end of the road wrote: »
    crossings can be closed for the most part.
    that section most certainly won't reopen anyway i expect.

    Even with crossings closed the alignment is so meandering that even now, with the N17 in Sligo being so poor, it wouldn’t be able to compete with bus services for Sligo-Galway.

    The only way a WRC could ever work would be a new alignment between Sligo and Claremorris.

    It’s unlikely to ever happen, but that doesn’t justify advocating wasting millions on opening the old alignment just for the sake of having a railway.


  • #2186
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,581 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    serfboard wrote: »
    I also heard that the reason that natural gas was brought to Tuam was from a Valeo request too.

    Any large consumer will be provided with gas assuming they're going to use enough and/or pay enough. Centreparcs Longford being another one.


  • #2187
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Really? We are talking about the WRC here, right? What freight was envisaged when the WRC was instated in the 1890s -1900's?

    Good point MB. The railways of C19th Europe moved goods in the same way as the canals had, then along came roads and trucks. The freight on the WRC in the early days was not so much freight as consumer goods and food, because it was the only way to move stuff through the supply chain. I grew up in a town called Burton on Trent, the home of the British brewing industry, even up to the 1950s. trains Criss crossed the streets of the town moving raw materials and finished product from depots on the mainline to the breweries in the town. All gone of course by the late 1950s and early 1960s. When the lorry took over. We are not going back to a system in which goods trains - think about that phrase "goods trains" trundled across the country and stopped off in loading yards near town centres to offload beer barrels, livestock for local slaughter houses, bags of flour for local bakeries etc. Quaint though this idea is it is not going to happen. The WRC was never a freight line like so many other closed railways it existed because the road system and road based supply chain logistics did not exist. Of course the rail system remains very important for mainline services into city centres, and on this small island that is what we need to concentrate on.....not trying to turn back the clock on the history of modern supply chain logistics.

    More could be said but you will all be bored by now.


  • #2188
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭serfboard


    L1011 wrote: »
    Any large consumer will be provided with gas assuming they're going to use enough and/or pay enough. Centreparcs Longford being another one.
    Indeed that is the case where a pipeline exists, but there is a little more to it than that in the case of Tuam. The original plan for the Gas pipeline was for it to bypass Tuam and not to come into the town at all.

    IIRC, Valeo asked for a diversion, so that the Gas pipeline would actually be brought into the town to supply their factory.


  • #2189
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    serfboard wrote: »
    Indeed that is the case where a pipeline exists, but there is a little more to it than that in the case of Tuam. The original plan for the Gas pipeline was for it to bypass Tuam and not to come into the town at all.

    IIRC, Valeo asked for a diversion, so that the Gas pipeline would actually be brought into the town to supply their factory.

    his post still applies to this situation though.
    the company would not have brought the pipe into tuam without a guarantee of a certain amount of use and payment by the factory to justify it.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2190
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭serfboard


    end of the road wrote: »
    his post still applies to this situation though.
    the company would not have brought the pipe into tuam without a guarantee of a certain amount of use and payment by the factory to justify it.
    My post still applies though - the pipeline would not have been brought into Tuam without Valeo requesting it.


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  • #2191
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    serfboard wrote: »
    My post still applies though - the pipeline would not have been brought into Tuam without Valeo requesting it.




    so?
    simply requesting it would in all likely hood not have been enough, they would have had to offer an incentive for the provider to spend the money deviating the pipe from their original plan.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2192
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    For Lord Glentoran, re your comments recently on press releases. They work with coverage like this.


  • #2193
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    westtip wrote: »
    For Lord Glentoran, re your comments recently on press releases. They work with coverage like this.

    I’ve written press releases. Local papers love them because they fill space that they don’t have to themselves.


  • #2194
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭serfboard


    end of the road wrote: »
    simply requesting it would in all likely hood not have been enough, they would have had to offer an incentive for the provider to spend the money deviating the pipe from their original plan.
    Of course.

    But would the gas have come to Tuam without Valeo requesting it? No, is the answer.


  • #2195
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    I’ve written press releases. Local papers love them because they fill space that they don’t have to themselves.

    Very true, which is why they are such a good vehicle to use.


  • #2196
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,581 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    serfboard wrote: »
    Indeed that is the case where a pipeline exists, but there is a little more to it than that in the case of Tuam. The original plan for the Gas pipeline was for it to bypass Tuam and not to come into the town at all.

    IIRC, Valeo asked for a diversion, so that the Gas pipeline would actually be brought into the town to supply their factory.

    There was no Longford pipeline at all, so realistically there is no difference. Valeo are not magic; anyone that will consume lots of gas will get a pipeline to them.


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  • #2197
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    L1011 wrote: »
    There was no Longford pipeline at all, so realistically there is no difference. Valeo are not magic; anyone that will consume lots of gas will get a pipeline to them.

    Just to reference this back to the WRC, the point is that if a substantial FDI provider seeks specific infrastructure they tend to receive it. None of FDIs on the WRC have sought rail infrastructure, passenger or frieght. They did request cycling infrastructure and it was delivered.


  • #2198
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Just to reference this back to the WRC, the point is that if a substantial FDI provider seeks specific infrastructure they tend to receive it. None of FDIs on the WRC have sought rail infrastructure, passenger or frieght. They did request cycling infrastructure and it was delivered.


    they don't get it because they simply request it however.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2199
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    end of the road wrote: »
    they don't get it because they simply request it however.

    They usually do- or did, to be fair.


  • #2200
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Isambard wrote: »
    yes everything went by rail pre motor vehicle.

    They had canals. Very good for stout.


  • #2201
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭serfboard


    L1011 wrote: »
    There was no Longford pipeline at all, so realistically there is no difference. Valeo are not magic; anyone that will consume lots of gas will get a pipeline to them.
    Of course Valeo are not magic. Any large multinational making the same request would have fit the bill. Some people seem to be assuming that I am suggesting that only Valeo could have done it. I did not, and I am not.

    But, does a large multinational automatically get a pipeline diverted to them simply by being a large multinational? No, they do not. They have to request it first.

    And if a large multinational, called, for example, Valeo, does not request a gas pipeline diversion, then it will not be done. Therefore, if Valeo had not requested it, it would not have happened.


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