Offseason 2020 Thread

Carcharodon · 03-12-2020 10:17pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'd still take Westbrook over Wall.

I think Iam getting some flashbacks over some John wall discussions from a few years back, was intense stuff.
He wasn’t bad, bad contract yes and all that but could of been a lot better for sure if he landed in a different place.
2 years out now also...I think he is going the derick Rose route minus the peak

Osmosis Jones · 03-12-2020 10:37pm

The trade doesn't really do anything, Houston are still a low seed playoff team with this roster and Washington might get the 7 or 8 seed with Westbrook but it's not nearly enough to make Beal feel like he's going anywhere with them.

LuckyLloyd · 03-12-2020 11:56pm

It’s best of a bad situation stuff on both sides.

jk23 · 04-12-2020 12:12am

Anthony Davis signed a 5 year deal today and LeBron got a 2 year extension. The Klay injury really has kind of taken away a bit of the excitement of the new nba season, would love to have seen Klay healthy and this warriors team Vs the Lakers

LuckyLloyd · 04-12-2020 3:48pm

I think it's unwise to assume the Lakers will have it all their own way. They're pretty much set for the next two years now but we've yet to see how the new mix will gel. They've lost a lot of defense so they are a different team for this year imo.

Carcharodon · 05-12-2020 4:11am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think it's unwise to assume the Lakers will have it all their own way. They're pretty much set for the next two years now but we've yet to see how the new mix will gel. They've lost a lot of defense so they are a different team for this year imo.

I really wish but I just get the feeling they will cruise to another title. I think Davis will improve also, o really really like Schroder, he will be excellent.
And Marc Gasol, obviously we can talk about age etc but Jesus, he is exceptional, used right and he will be fantastic.
Kuzma should also improve but at the end of the day, Davis and LeBron is pretty god damn solid

ButtersSuki · 05-12-2020 8:35am

Carcharodon wrote: »

I really wish but I just get the feeling they will cruise to another title. I think Davis will improve also, o really really like Schroder, he will be excellent.
And Marc Gasol, obviously we can talk about age etc but Jesus, he is exceptional, used right and he will be fantastic.
Kuzma should also improve but at the end of the day, Davis and LeBron is pretty god damn solid

As a Celtics fan it kills me to say this but I can’t see them not winning it all bar injury. For all the sh*t Palinka took in the last few years he has done an exceptional job in recruiting. Granted LeBron fell into his lap but the other moves have paid dividends, even if they’ve overpaid in some scenarios.

LuckyLloyd · 05-12-2020 11:02pm

Well lads, remember the previous off season (feels a million year’s ago now) after the Lakers didn’t get Kawhi and there was a sense that they hadn’t done enough and it wouldn’t work. I didn’t personally buy that negativity then and I don’t buy the positivity now.

People are somewhat blinded to them being the champs now just like they were blinded to them not winning the Kawhi race before the last season.

Bradley, Rondo, Green, Howard and McGee is a lot of defense a lot of locker room presence and a lot of strong playoff experience out the door. It’s a lot of change and I think we need to see it a bit first.

jk23 · 05-12-2020 11:10pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well lads, remember the previous off season (feels a million year’s ago now) after the Lakers didn’t get Kawhi and there was a sense that they hadn’t done enough and it wouldn’t work. I didn’t personally buy that negativity then and I don’t buy the positivity now.

People are somewhat blinded to them being the champs now just like they were blinded to them not winning the Kawhi race before the last season.

Bradley, Rondo, Green, Howard and McGee is a lot of defense a lot of locker room presence and a lot of strong playoff experience out the door. It’s a lot of change and I think we need to see it a bit first.

The Clippers definitely need a PG, I think not getting CP3 was a mistake they still could get a good point guard but they need a couple of more pieces.

Brooklyn is an unknown at the moment as are the new version of the warriors so I don't really see where the challenge will come from?...

Your right about those players they lost in FA though...I thought apart from Bradley in the playoffs all those guys contributed but I think the Lakers can get away with it when they have LeBron and AD...KCP is very important for them too

ButtersSuki · 06-12-2020 12:09am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well lads, remember the previous off season (feels a million year’s ago now) after the Lakers didn’t get Kawhi and there was a sense that they hadn’t done enough and it wouldn’t work. I didn’t personally buy that negativity then and I don’t buy the positivity now.

People are somewhat blinded to them being the champs now just like they were blinded to them not winning the Kawhi race before the last season.

Bradley, Rondo, Green, Howard and McGee is a lot of defense a lot of locker room presence and a lot of strong playoff experience out the door. It’s a lot of change and I think we need to see it a bit first.

Sure, all valid points; but ultimately their 2 best players are Top 10 guys, arguably Top 5, one of whom is a perennial DPOY candidate. I know they’ve lost players, but I actually think they’re stronger now with the acquisitions they’ve made, and equally, I don’t think any of the contenders have done that.

kmart6 · 06-12-2020 12:24am

jk23 wrote: »

The Clippers definitely need a PG

They already have one :pac:

jk23 · 06-12-2020 11:01am

kmart6 wrote: »

They already have one :pac:

Haha that's true!! He needs to step up in the playoffs though as well

Osmosis Jones · 07-12-2020 5:21pm

James Harden fails to report for Rockets training, says he'll be back in time for a personal session, then fails to report for that, all while footage of him hanging out in Vegas is all over the internet. Houston are in some mess.

Corvo · 07-12-2020 5:48pm

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

James Harden fails to report for Rockets training, says he'll be back in time for a personal session, then fails to report for that, all while footage of him hanging out in Vegas is all over the internet. Houston are in some mess.

He'll surely be traded soon and due to Fertitta's refusal to trade with Philly, he'll probably get his wish of going to Brooklyn.

What Houston get in return is anyones guess. I imagine it will end up as a three team trade.

LuckyLloyd · 08-12-2020 12:17am

Don't blame Harden. Going back to Houston a waste of his remaining peak. Player power all the way, love it.

Slinky94 · 08-12-2020 12:29am

Corvo wrote: »

He'll surely be traded soon and due to Fertitta's refusal to trade with Philly, he'll probably get his wish of going to Brooklyn.

What Houston get in return is anyones guess. I imagine it will end up as a three team trade.

Maybe the Nets will give up the players to make the trade work but giving up draft picks is just crazy these days. If things don't work out with Harden and Irving and Durant what stops them leaving in a year or two? Then Brooklyn's picks could be high and go straight to Houston. Very short sighted by Brooklyn. Seems like they forgot what happened the last time they traded for players and gave up draft picks. Wouldn't like to be the other two players on Brooklyn's starting 5. Not getting a chance to shoot but do all the other muck work. Maybe it's worth it if they win a championship.

08-12-2020 9:04am

Don't see how brooklyn win with that trio tbh Irving and harden will be a terrible fit

ButtersSuki · 08-12-2020 1:30pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Don't blame Harden. Going back to Houston a waste of his remaining peak. Player power all the way, love it.

Ah come on now, Houston is in a mess largely BECAUSE of Harden and the way that team was constructed - with his blessing and input! And he's completely taking the p*ss here. He's going to leave them f*cked for years, perhaps decades, and he's more than partly to blame for that. He's not exactly being honourable here, and he's being paid life-changing money annually. He's being a complete d*ck and you know it. Not being completely happy isn't a reason not to turn up to work.

I'm not a Houston fan but imagine if you were?

And that's all before we talk about the non-mask wearing stuff.

Also, why would you want your team trading for him knowing he could pull this sh*t again in a year if he wants out?

LuckyLloyd · 08-12-2020 7:20pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah come on now, Houston is in a mess largely BECAUSE of Harden and the way that team was constructed - with his blessing and input! And he's completely taking the p*ss here. He's going to leave them f*cked for years, perhaps decades, and he's more than partly to blame for that. He's not exactly being honourable here, and he's being paid life-changing money annually. He's being a complete d*ck and you know it. Not being completely happy isn't a reason not to turn up to work.

He has played his heart out as part of an experiment that was good but not quite good enough. You can't win in the NBA on your own and the current roster is not good enough.

He's not obliged to waste the remainder of his peak and letting him go for a slew of picks could be the shortest route back to competitiveness for the franchise. This makes sense for everyone involved.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm not a Houston fan but imagine if you were?

Harden not showing up and deciding to force a move didn't start any of this. They've slid from a strong position through a series of deals and the coach and GM moving on were a crystal clear indication of what was coming. Houston fans won't be in the least bit surprised at this imo.

Moreover, Houston fans should appreciate that they had a cut at it. They had their chances against the Warriors a couple of years ago. They were in the mix. But they're nowhere near it now.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

And that's all before we talk about the non-mask wearing stuff.

That's an entirely separate topic and irrelevant.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Also, why would you want your team trading for him knowing he could pull this sh*t again in a year if he wants out?

Because you want to win and you understand and accept the reality of the modern NBA with player options and control. If Harden wants to team up with your existing star or stars you say 'yes please, may i have another.'

I see it come up often in this thread, people not accepting the realities of the modern NBA.

If you lack a star but can put a few plus players on the court together and get in the playoffs instead of constantly rebuilding, by all means do it. But expecting a single star to try and win on his own is madness. It's a waste of everyone's time.

Top Dog · 08-12-2020 10:45pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He has played his heart out as part of an experiment that was good but not quite good enough. You can't win in the NBA on your own and the current roster is not good enough.

He's not obliged to waste the remainder of his peak and letting him go for a slew of picks could be the shortest route back to competitiveness for the franchise. This makes sense for everyone involved.

I know I've not been that in tune with all things NBA in recent years, but hasn't he been partnered with Dwight Howard, then Chris Paul, then Russell Westbrook... and failed each time? What's the common denominator with those arrivals and failures? How you can claim he been on his own baffles me.

As Buttersuki pointed out - he's being paid a staggering amount of money to do a job, there's no reasonable excuse to effectively give 2 fingers to the people paying you.

LuckyLloyd · 08-12-2020 10:57pm

He doesn’t have any of those lads now. Hence his desire to leave. The various partnerships nearly got there, as I noted in my post. I didn’t claim he was on his own.

jk23 · 09-12-2020 12:06am

I am going to guess Harden ends up with the 76rs just have that gut feeling

kmart6 · 09-12-2020 1:06am

That isn't exactly that far out there since it's where Morey has ended. Based on the talk that's out there Fertitta isn't willing to deal with them. That of course, could all change.

qwabercd · 09-12-2020 1:37am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He doesn’t have any of those lads now. Hence his desire to leave. The various partnerships nearly got there, as I noted in my post. I didn’t claim he was on his own.

And Harden should shoulder a lot of the blame for that.

LuckyLloyd · 09-12-2020 10:13am

qwabercd wrote: »

And Harden should shoulder a lot of the blame for that.

People may want to live in a world where stars shoulder blame and serve out years of non competitive penance on rosters they were complicit in running down. It doesn’t work like that.

Carcharodon · 09-12-2020 7:59pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People may want to live in a world where stars shoulder blame and serve out years of non competitive penance on rosters they were complicit in running down. It doesn’t work like that.

I think it’s a nuanced situation
On one hand Harden pretty much dictated a lot of the comings and goings in Houston and it never really worked out, I don’t think you can necessarily blame him for it because it’s pretty hard to win a championship, especially against the Warriors at the time.
Harden is receiving a huge salary and if he gets injured they are obliged to pay him that money so it should also work the other way, just because you want out the franchise isn’t obliged to let you go, you are obliged to ride it out and fulfill your part of the deal

Iam all for player power and going where you want, has it gone too far where smaller franchise teams will be left out in the cold, probably but then that’s another discussion.

LuckyLloyd · 12-12-2020 12:20pm

John Wall got through 19 mins of preseason action. Good for him to get back onto the court.

Carcharodon · 12-12-2020 5:18pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

John Wall got through 19 mins of preseason action. Good for him to get back onto the court.

Saw a few highlights, looked pretty good for a guy out for so long

LuckyLloyd · 15-12-2020 8:00pm

Giannis signing the super max. 5 / 228

Wrong move imo.

Carcharodon · 15-12-2020 9:31pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Giannis signing the super max. 5 / 228

Wrong move imo.

Good for Milwaukee and good for the NBA, it’s always going to be better to have superstars spread out across the NBA rather than 5 or 6 destination cities
And it doesn’t necessarily mean he will stay there for 5 years.

ButtersSuki · 15-12-2020 9:47pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Giannis signing the super max. 5 / 228

Wrong move imo.

Sure he can do a Harden and just demand a trade in a year if he wants with your full support! :pac:;)

Corvo · 16-12-2020 12:26pm

With Giannis signing the super-max it will be interesting to see if the teams that have the cap space / assets that had targeted him now instead turn their interest to Harden - i.e. Miami and Toronto

LuckyLloyd · 18-12-2020 12:40am

Carcharodon wrote: »

Good for Milwaukee and good for the NBA, it’s always going to be better to have superstars spread out across the NBA rather than 5 or 6 destination cities
And it doesn’t necessarily mean he will stay there for 5 years.

Agreed on all of that - good for the NBA and the city of Milwaukee.

But it's bad for his career imo. Going to be very difficult to build a championship roster around that contract in that market.

Coneygree · 18-12-2020 12:52am

Looks like Harden to the Sixers could have legs with Simmons going the other way. Obviously more pieces would be involved too. Don't know what to make of it, the Rockets will look really weird with Wall and Simmons.

LuckyLloyd · 18-12-2020 10:29am

76ers would automatically become serious contenders in the East if that trade materialises. Harden plus Embiid would be something, my jaysus.

ButtersSuki · 18-12-2020 11:29am

Gordon Hayward with yet another injury - this time a fractured finger. That contract is looking even worse now if that was possible.

ButtersSuki · 18-12-2020 11:31am

Coneygree wrote: »

Looks like Harden to the Sixers could have legs with Simmons going the other way. Obviously more pieces would be involved too. Don't know what to make of it, the Rockets will look really weird with Wall and Simmons.

It is by far the most logical trade from Houston's perspective. They won't get anywhere near as big a talent as Simmons from any other team and given the age differential it's a no-brainer IMO. Given Simmons position he's also the ideal guy to start a rebuild around in the modern NBA. I wouldn't bank on there being much extra involved though for a variety of reasons that I don't have time to go into now.

Coneygree · 18-12-2020 12:16pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

It is by far the most logical trade from Houston's perspective. They won't get anywhere near as big a talent as Simmons from any other team and given the age differential it's a no-brainer IMO. Given Simmons position he's also the ideal guy to start a rebuild around in the modern NBA. I wouldn't bank on there being much extra involved though for a variety of reasons that I don't have time to go into now.

It does make sense from a business POV and Houston won't get anything better but I meant rather their team will look very weird with Simmons and Wall being their big two. I don't see how that will be effective. However the 76ers have to be favourites for the East now.

I'd imagine they might include someone like Thybulle as well.

LuckyLloyd · 18-12-2020 2:05pm

I think if you accept that you’re not winning either way, acquiring Simmons and figuring out what to do with both him and Wall over the next while is the right long term move. It won’t work on the court particularly well, but Simmons is a good piece and maybe Wall gets back into shape and becomes something you work with or trade.

If you’re not winning, acquiring assets is the next best thing.

Carcharodon · 18-12-2020 10:31pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think if you accept that you’re not winning either way, acquiring Simmons and figuring out what to do with both him and Wall over the next while is the right long term move. It won’t work on the court particularly well, but Simmons is a good piece and maybe Wall gets back into shape and becomes something you work with or trade.

If you’re not winning, acquiring assets is the next best thing.

Yea, I thinking getting Simmons would be a steal, not that he is such an amazing player, plenty of potential but should be a great asset to have and potentially build around.
So many times when a superstar leaves the team is left with scraps, at least Houston would get a pretty solid asset in exchange for someone that doesn’t want to be there.

Carcharodon · 23-12-2020 6:40am

Watched the nets and warriors game this evening, Nets genuinely looked really good. KD hasn’t missed a step, they will be a hard team to beat in the East.

GoldFour4 · 23-12-2020 9:14am

New thread opened now for the new regular season

Offseason 2020 Thread

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