Offseason 2020 Thread

kmart6

2019/20 fully over and done with so thought best to separate all offseason chat for the next 2 or 3 months (hopefully not longer) into a new thread like previous years.

Going to be interesting when the season will actually get going.

Lot of FA's out there but with uncertainty over the cap it's difficult to see how things will go.

jk23

I have a feeling if Giannis turns down the supermax with the bucks, he could end up with the warriors. They can offer Wiggins and Green with a few role players like Poole and Pascall

xgronkjabv6pcl

jk23 wrote: »

I have a feeling if Giannis turns down the supermax with the bucks, he could end up with the warriors. They can offer Wiggins and Green with a few role players like Poole and Pascall

Unless GSW can make Wiggins into a remotely productive player relative to his contract then they'll have to give up assets for teams to take him opposed to teams giving up anything for him. 30m a year :eek:

There's a reason why the TWolves had to give up a 1st and 2nd round pick to get rid of him. GSW had to do something with Russell with Steph and Klay coming back.

I'd imagine they were a little disappointed in Russell's production after his all star year. Russell ranked around 150th in the league in WS/48, roughly around as valuable as Lonzo.

Wiggins ended up about 10 places lower, to me, its effectively two teams that know they've overpaid but realise that a swap at least fits better.
Russell is worth more because he's at least flirted with being productive, 17th in OPBM for example but both are laughing on those salaries.

I do hope the Bucks get a sign & trade if Giannis leaves but I hope its somewhat decent.
Perhaps something built around Porzingis if the Mavs have questions around fit & health. That looks like the highest ceiling deal available

kmart6

Obviously it's silly season and everyone is going to be linked with the Lakers but I like the sound of a trade for D-Rose.

xgronkjabv6pcl

kmart6 wrote: »

Obviously it's silly season and everyone is going to be linked with the Lakers but I like the sound of a trade for D-Rose.

I like it as a move if the goal is to make him the offensive focal point of the 2nd unit but not a huge fan if he's a starter. He's not a good enough shooter to start alongside LeBron & AD.

K.O.Kiki

K.O.Kiki

More relevant:

Marcus Smart - This Article Is Not About Basketball

ButtersSuki

Looks like the nba could be back much quicker than anticipated, even as early as Christmas.

kmart6

Will be interesting to see how it pans out, especially without the bubble in place. Can't see them going without any cases unless teams go about creating their own bubbles.

xgronkjabv6pcl

kmart6 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how it pans out, especially without the bubble in place. Can't see them going without any cases unless teams go about creating their own bubbles.

Perhaps, they'll simply go with no fans and push NBA pass really hard with lots of additional add ons.Teams still play home and away with some stricter protocols.

Alternatively, banning fans at sporting events may be a state legislative decision opposed to something either federal or directed by the NBA.

I'd be very surprised if it was the latter but it'll be worth keeping an eye on.

ButtersSuki

Mur28 wrote: »

Perhaps, they'll simply go with no fans and push NBA pass really hard with lots of additional add ons.Teams still play home and away with some stricter protocols.

Alternatively, banning fans at sporting events may be a state legislative decision opposed to something either federal or directed by the NBA.

I'd be very surprised if it was the latter but it'll be worth keeping an eye on.

They’re (nba and owners) more concerned about the 21-22 season than 20-21 and having things back to normal by then, esp from a calendar perspective as they suffered hugely when they went up against football in the latter stages of the play offs.

Yes, decision on attendance will be made at state level, out of nba control.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Starks might be the best analyst the Ringer has, similar to Zach Lowe with small 5-10 sec highlight vids.

My 2nd fav team down through the years has been the T-Wolves, pretty excited about them for next year and Starks breaks down some reasons why: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/10/22/21528273/minnesota-timberwolves-nba-draft-denver-nuggets

Starks and I agree on "Rosas turned Andrew Wiggins, one of the worst contracts in the NBA" which is great for T-wolves-not so great for GSW.
It makes up for the terrible LaVine trade with the Bulls.

Also, I'd be in total agreement with him that trading down is a good idea given the weakness of this draft. Perhaps a trade involving a team like NYK-who like LaMelo- could yield someone like Okoro(8th pick), 27th pick and Kevin Knox.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Assuming the season now starts around Xmas, it appears that LBJ is floating the idea of taking the 1st month off.

I suspect Danny Green isn't mentioning it unless it's something LBJ has at least discussed with the team to some extent.

As a fan, if given the choice between players taking an extended block of games off vs periodic 1-2 game breaks mid season, I think I would choose the former.

Obviously nothing to say both won't happen but I like the idea of an extended pre-season especially for this condensed format.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Morey joining Doc at the 76ers and Silas(Mavs) taking over Rockets coaching role.

Morey is brave enough to trade Simmons or Embiid, they'll be interesting to watch this offseason.

Trust the Process 2.0

ButtersSuki

Watched the Klutch Draft Workout “ad”, because that’s basically what it is. Like it or not, they’re certainly doing things differently.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Not sure if anyone else saw the project LBJ & MJ were involved in the lead up to the US Election.

They -along with others- paid the fines of over 13k people in Florida who ostensibly had their voting rights restored but couldn’t vote due to crippling fines.

Amazing how pernicious some of the repressive voting tactics are in the US.

Obviously, not a long term solution but a great project to be involved to highlight the inequality.

Great to see MJ following the lead of LBJ, Melo etc and throwing his weight behind this type of thing.

Itssoeasy

Boston celtics legend Tommy heinsohn has died at age 86. He is a double Naismith basketball hall of fame inductee, as a player and a coach. He was a ten time NBA champion(8 as a part of the celtics dynasty of the 50s and 60’s and 2 as celtics head coach in 1974 and 1976) and was involved in some way with the organisation for all 17 NBA titles. His no 15 is retired by the Celtics He was part of the cbs sports coverage of the NBA finals in the 1980’s along with Dick Stockton and as celtics colour commentator with Mike Gorman for years although he hadn’t been doing as many in recent years. I don’t know how many players from those Celtic’s teams of the 1950s and 60’s are still alive but there aren’t that many although bill Russell is still with us.

ButtersSuki

Lots of trade chatter esp. re. Chris Paul, Harden, and Westbrook.

Suns trade for Paul to include Rubio and Oubre. I can't quite see the attraction in that from a Suns perspective. Rubio's stats are better than you'd think abut Oubre came on in leaps and bounds last year. Paul's age and his contract are not very appealing, and the history of decline in small guards over 30 isn't great. I know they have to do something to appease Booker, I don't think this is the smartest move though.

Osmosis Jones

Suns going all-in on trying to get Booker to stay for a couple more years

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1328400422445461505?s=20

I know CP just had a great season, but at this stage he's equally likely to spend 40 games out injured as anything else.

ButtersSuki

Buckle up, going to be a crazy few hours/days.

kmart6

Think that Paul trade is ridiculous for the Suns.

ButtersSuki

kmart6 wrote: »

Think that Paul trade is ridiculous for the Suns.

Ridiculous good, or ridiculous bad?

I think it’s crazy myself. They’re giving up too much for an aging player. Paul will be 36 next year from memory.

ButtersSuki

OKC now have 17 first round picks between now and 2026.

kmart6

Sorry, ridiculously bad. As you said, way you much to give up for him.

Osmosis Jones

It's a desperate plea to make the 8th seed this year to show Booker they're somewhat serious about competing. Even in the best case scenario it's a first round exit for one year and then CP3's legs are definitely gone anyway and they're right back to where they are now but with fewer assets.

ButtersSuki

Milwaukee have been busy.

Great signing in Bogdanovic, I'm really high on him and think he's seriously under-rated.

To get him and Holiday is a serious upgrade.

Osmosis Jones

Houston basically confirm that Harden is out by trading Robert Covington to Portland for Trevor Ariza and picks.

Huge get for Portland, RoCo would be a good player on any team but Portland have been so desperate for a wing who can actually defend and RoCo has been one of the best over the past few years.

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Milwaukee have been busy.

Great signing in Bogdanovic, I'm really high on him and think he's seriously under-rated.

To get him and Holiday is a serious upgrade.

Yea, when I first saw that I was like damn, they are making a big push for next year and they totally had to.
I really like Bogdanovic also, he should be a good fit.
Holiday is also an upgrade and should definitely help out Giannis

To play devils advocate, I’ve listened to a few podcasts and I’ve read a few articles, my first thought like others was, wow, they gave up a lot of trade assets and picks for these players.
They will now have to fill the roster with not a whole lot of cap space.
One of the articles really broke down the deals and to be honest, my head was spinning with all the various caveats to the deals but the Bucks really have made a big push to win down and keep Giannis
Also, Holiday is good and definitely an upgrade but his numbers have also been dropping as he enters the later stage of his career
What if Giannis decides to go now anyway, then they are really really screwed ??

A lot of ifs and buts..... I do like the attitude to win now but also at the end of the day, Giannis needs to step up in the playoffs

Coneygree

Draft is tonight, anyone have strong opinions on anyone? I like Edwards as a project but he has a lot to prove and that interview snippet that came out earlier today is absolutely bizarre, even if he's trying to not get drafted by the Timberwolves.

LuckyLloyd

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

It's a desperate plea to make the 8th seed this year to show Booker they're somewhat serious about competing. Even in the best case scenario it's a first round exit for one year and then CP3's legs are definitely gone anyway and they're right back to where they are now but with fewer assets.

Well the playoffs this year certainly demonstrated you can win a round or two as underdogs. Rock and a hard place when you have a player like Booker tbh. You can't tank because he creates too many wins. It's hard to build a championship contender around him at the same time in that market. This is probably their best option. Try and be a winning team - you may get every bounce and win 50 games with that combo. Let him rock out in the playoffs.

I think the modern NBA conversation is way too harsh on teams who try and put their best five out there and win games tbh just because they can't win a Championship.

Osmosis Jones

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think the modern NBA conversation is way too harsh on teams who try and put their best five out there and win games tbh just because they can't win a Championship.

I'm with you there, I mean sure I'm a Portland fan, we've been doing that for years, I just don't think this move is good for Phoenix, Rubio and Oubre are two really good players and trading them out for maybe one good year of Chris Paul isn't clever.

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

Yea, when I first saw that I was like damn, they are making a big push for next year and they totally had to.
I really like Bogdanovic also, he should be a good fit.
Holiday is also an upgrade and should definitely help out Giannis

To play devils advocate, I’ve listened to a few podcasts and I’ve read a few articles, my first thought like others was, wow, they gave up a lot of trade assets and picks for these players.
They will now have to fill the roster with not a whole lot of cap space.
One of the articles really broke down the deals and to be honest, my head was spinning with all the various caveats to the deals but the Bucks really have made a big push to win down and keep Giannis
Also, Holiday is good and definitely an upgrade but his numbers have also been dropping as he enters the later stage of his career
What if Giannis decides to go now anyway, then they are really really screwed ??

A lot of ifs and buts..... I do like the attitude to win now but also at the end of the day, Giannis needs to step up in the playoffs

Unless they're as dumb as the Knicks (which they're not, no-one is) they have to be sure he (Giannis) is staying to offer that much and that many picks. They've had to have been told he intends to sign the supermax to do that.

The supermax is the no-brainer. He guarantees himself 80million extra by signing it, and even if he wants to leave in 2 years he can do an AD or a Harden and just say "trade me".

I know some of you will disagree and are all for player empowerment, but I think it's gone too far personally. Too tired (I'm off to bed) to debate it now but happy to do so later in the week.

Osmosis Jones

The supermax is a terrible system that is supposed to reward teams who develop their draft picks but instead just massively hinders them by taking up a huge chunk of their cap space. The extra $$ afforded by the supermax over the regular max shouldn't contribute to cap space imo.

Osmosis Jones

Btw big win for Philly here:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329188492912578568?s=20

I know they got themselves yet another First but I really think OKC could've asked for more assets here, that Horford contract is ABYSMAL.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think the modern NBA conversation is way too harsh on teams who try and put their best five out there and win games tbh just because they can't win a Championship.

Totally agree. The Championship or bust mentality that's entered the thinking in the league doesn't help.

Take Houston as an example - they were the only ones who really went all in consistently to try and take down the Warriors and though I hate how they played I admire them for at least trying when so many teams were basically not even trying to put up a challenge. The problem however is they didn't cross the line - which I fear might inspire others to just say "f*ck it, what's the point?" if they know they can't win. And now look where they ae because Harden - technically still under contract for the next 2 years - has clearly just gone "I want out" and they're now SCREWED for likely the next decade as they have no picks, will have a terrible roster AND they did all of this to appease Harden - the very guy who's now bailing on them. Wouldn't like to be a Houston fan today............

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Btw big win for Philly here:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329188492912578568?s=20

I know they got themselves yet another First but I really think OKC could've asked for more assets here, that Horford contract is ABYSMAL.

All things considered that's a massive win for Philly. I can't see Horford being as bad as he was in Philly, but to shed that salary and years is good. As usual, Morey trading away all the picks. I don't think that's the last time Green will be moved though.

ButtersSuki

Bogdanovic to the Bucks may be off it seems, he didn't agree to it apparently. Very strange...............

Osmosis Jones

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Totally agree. The Championship or bust mentality that's entered the thinking in the league doesn't help.

Take Houston as an example - they were the only ones who really went all in consistently to try and take down the Warriors and though I hate how they played I admire them for at least trying when so many teams were basically not even trying to put up a challenge. The problem however is they didn't cross the line - which I fear might inspire others to just say "f*ck it, what's the point?" if they know they can't win. And now look where they ae because Harden - technically still under contract for the next 2 years - has clearly just gone "I want out" and they're now SCREWED for likely the next decade as they have no picks, will have a terrible roster AND they did all of this to appease Harden - the very guy who's now bailing on them. Wouldn't like to be a Houston fan today............

Houston fans are in for a rough ride, was reading yesterday from Kevin O'Connor that Fertitta won't make any deal with Daryl Morey, even with Morey willing to trade Simmons for Harden. absolutely braindead pettiness there, with Harden wanting out there'd be literally no better deal imaginable for Houston.

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Houston fans are in for a rough ride, was reading yesterday from Kevin O'Connor that Fertitta won't make any deal with Daryl Morey, even with Morey willing to trade Simmons for Harden. absolutely braindead pettiness there, with Harden wanting out there'd be literally no better deal imaginable for Houston.

Frittata (yes I know that’s not the spelling) does seem like an incredibly dick at the best of times, but even he would be stupid to turn that down. That said, look at how petty things can get with owners and it’s entirely plausible that he’ll cut off his nose to spite his face.

Osmosis Jones

Coneygree wrote: »

Draft is tonight, anyone have strong opinions on anyone? I like Edwards as a project but he has a lot to prove and that interview snippet that came out earlier today is absolutely bizarre, even if he's trying to not get drafted by the Timberwolves.

The interview really is astounding, kid better have the talent to back up his words because if not this reads like someone who'll be out of the league in 5 years

Carcharodon

Klay Thompson has suffered a serious lower leg injury today during a personal workout, I’ve been listening to the radio and by most reports, it’s not good at all.
That really really sucks for Warriors and especially Klay, I love him, such a great player and awesome guy.

4th pick in the draft and Bulls pick 6th man of the year.

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

Klay Thompson has suffered a serious lower leg injury today during a personal workout, I’ve been listening to the radio and by most reports, it’s not good at all.
That really really sucks for Warriors and especially Klay, I love him, such a great player and awesome guy.

Ah bollix...............

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah bollix...............

Yep, rumors are it’s his Achilles, that’s just the worst possible scenario, devastating for him if so, another year not playing, not good at all.

On a brighter note if there is one, I like the Wiseman pick, a lot of upsides to him
With Klays injury, I’d almost want us to tank next year, get a top pick plus we will have another top pick between 3 and 10 most likely in what is expected to be a strong draft

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

Yep, rumors are it’s his Achilles, that’s just the worst possible scenario, devastating for him if so, another year not playing, not good at all.

On a brighter note if there is one, I like the Wiseman pick, a lot of upsides to him
With Klays injury, I’d almost want us to tank next year, get a top pick plus we will have another top pick between 3 and 10 most likely in what is expected to be a strong draft

Oh dear. Not good.

I listen to some of the ESPN reporting on YouTube and was wondering if that was it alright from the vagueness of the descriptions. They weren’t saying break or sprain, but emphasized lower leg and I couldn’t help but go to Achilles.

Devastated for him tbh.

kmart6

Confirmed as a torn Achilles. Such a shame really.

ButtersSuki

kmart6 wrote: »

Confirmed as a torn Achilles. Such a shame really.

Full tear too.

ButtersSuki

Is there a worse ex-player pundit than Kendrick Perkins?

Itssoeasy

Just seeing the New Jersey’s for the Celtics for the new season and I know it’s hard to be that original when you’re colours are green and white but the Celtic’s have just taken the design of the championship banners and the retired numbers(white background on green numbers or vice versa) and used that. I mean fair enough the celtics have a long rich history but I don’t like them.

ButtersSuki

If the Bucks can’t resurrect that Bogdonovic deal the price might ultimately be losing Giannis. It’s a shltshow. How the hell could they mess this up so badly?

Osmosis Jones

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329888113519259650?s=20

Very happy about this, we somehow made the WCF with Kanter as our starting C, himself an Nurkic looked to be a really great combination before the injury, rotating with each other they're two legit 7 footers that give the opposition 48 minutes of really tough intense defensive work. Obviously he's one of the worst defenders in the NBA but as I said we somehow made the WCF with him starting, so he should be fine as a bench player. Roster is actually looking nice right now:

Starting: Lillard, McCollum, Covington, ???, Nurkic
Bench: Simons, Trent Jr, Little, Collins, Kanter

The ??? is for who I assume will be another free agent considering Portland still have a $9m MLE to spend, could also see Melo re-sign and take Little's spot on the bench unit. The MLE could also end up going to Rodney Hood who'd start at SF and push RoCo up to PF.