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School demand management

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    #32
    wally79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭wally79


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/conormolloy/status/1052934482314055683

    It's not just kids who should be getting in their bikes. 5 k is an easy cycle

    That graph is confusing me. How can 86% of private car journeys be >8 km and 80% of private car journeys between 6% and 8%

    Edit I get it now. It’s just badly labelled.


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    #33
    alentejo
    Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭alentejo


    I think part of the problem with people driving on the school run is that many parents themselves then drive to work. Not excusing this, just stating that the problem is slightly more complex to fix


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    #34
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,291 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    How far the school from your house? Why not walk or cycle?

    School is about 1.5km or so from the house.

    Footpath is broken for about 500m. Walking is out of the question.

    You wouldn't take two kids out on bikes out around where I live. It's a drag strip for motorists.

    I'm not being dramatic either. Road out the front serves as pretty much the only link between Portmarnock and the M50.

    Every councilor since I've lived here has promised off road walk ways and cycle ways. Still waiting


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    #35
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think schools get too much of a bad rap in terms of the traffic generated; yes, the traffic goes to pot when the schools go back, but that's also got a lot to do with the number of people commuting for work going up to when the schools go back.
    certainly where i work, there's a noticeable increase in the presence in the office when the schools go back; there's a strong correlation between people taking leave and the period of the school summer holidays.


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    #36
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i think schools get too much of a bad rap in terms of the traffic generated
    Workplaces, etc. don't quite have the same "The bell has wrung, I'm gone" mentality and people will gradually leave as they finish a task.


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    #37
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Victor wrote: »
    Workplaces, etc. don't quite have the same "The bell has wrung, I'm gone" mentality and people will gradually leave as they finish a task.

    Hes alluding to getting there in the first place. Not everyone is going to have a flexible start time.


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    #38
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    no, i'm not alluding to, say, everyone in the office starting at 9pm; i'm referring to the 'the schools are back, kids are being driven to school so therefore that's why the traffic is bad' attitude, and people only focussing on kids getting to school as a cause of increased traffic.

    the schools being back is also correlated with the adults being back at work too; when the schools are back, there is simply more traffic created by people driving to work, regardless of the start time of the school; precisely because parents are more inclined to take their own annual leave when the schools are off.

    about 20 years ago, i used to be one of the guys who'd arrive at your door with the spare parts under my arm to fix your computer if it broke. the amount of calls we'd have during the summer months was maybe 60% what it would be during the rest of the year. it was great; there was one two week period in the summer of 1999 where the latest i got home was 2pm.


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    #39
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    This is what I've suggested.

    Easing impact in the short term:
    * Stagger class finishing times over, say, a five minute period. Perhaps it won’t be popular, but would spread the worst of the peak. Staggering starting times will have less of an effect.
    * If students have a half-day one day a week, allocate different days to each year. This would reduce peak demand by 16-20%.
    * Provide / encourage after-school activities, including informal ones, e.g. allow students play basketball or football after school with limited supervision.
    * Create a homework / study club.
    * Encourage students that are being dropped-off / picked-up to use the eastern pedestrian gate.
    * Ask the council to make the pedestrian crossings demand-responsive, i.e. the more they are used, the more time that pedestrians get. For example, on Rathmines Road Lower, when you press the button, it takes 45 seconds for the green man to show and the lights then cycle back to green for traffic. If the button is pressed again within a few minutes, it then only takes 30 seconds for the green man to show. If the button is pressed again within a few minutes, it then only takes 15 seconds for the green man to show. If there is an extended period when nobody presses the button, it then reverts to 45 seconds.

    Medium term:
    * Commission a demand management study. The council and/or the National Transport Authority may be willing to assist with this.
    * Improve traffic calming and crash protection on Road X.
    * Widen footpaths.
    * Additional bus stop(s) at the junction of Road X and Road Y. This would shorten the walking route for some students using buses and remove crowding from the stop at the junction of Road X and Road Z.

    Long term:
    * Build greenway across adjacent private land.


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    #40
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    How could you timetable a school where different classes are starting at different times? teachers finishing a class after the next one starts?


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    #41
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How could you timetable a school where different classes are starting at different times? teachers finishing a class after the next one starts?

    Have the second cohort of students start when the first cohort end their first class. Exact timing would be dependent on whatever length the class period is, typically 40-60 minutes.


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    #42
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    The obvious solution is for the roads authority to close one of the lanes on the Adjacent DC during peak times. They gave Planning permission, they should have foreseen the traffic issues then.

    Anything like expecting workers to unilaterally amend their contracts, where there is no possibility of extra payments is pie in the sky stuff. Pedestrians should have the highest priority on a road, as its a DC, there's obviously space to accomodate them.


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    #43
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    just how long does this 'swarming' last when the school closes? 10 minutes?


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    #44
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,215 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    The rules of the road entitle them to walk on it

    Not if there’s a footpath on either side!


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    #45
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,215 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    FrankPoll. wrote: »
    If you see it in time

    If you don’t see it in time then you are not competent to drive!


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    #46
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,215 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Isambard wrote: »
    all road users are entitled to be on the road. Pedestrians are road users, the carriageway is not reserved for cars.

    Wrong! If there is a footpath on either side of the road it is an offence to walk on it except for the purposes of crossing it.


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    #47
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,715 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Victor wrote: »
    Workplaces, etc. don't quite have the same "The bell has wrung, I'm gone" mentality and people will gradually leave as they finish a task.

    Think that depends on the workplace/industry. Certainly my place is pretty much empty within 15 minutes of half 5.. and the traffic outside shows it! (typical business park with only 1 exit/entrance)


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    #48
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Victor wrote: »
    Imagine letting sixth years (only) start at 10am and finish at 5pm (or whatever times, to fit class duration).

    But what if I have kids in multiple years, more school runs?

    Also, even if the kids make their own way to school, the parents won't want to go to work till the kids leave for school, so parents leave for work at the same time as (or just after) kids go to school, so if all the schools have stagger starting times, do the parents have to arrange suitable staggered start times in work to match this?


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    #49
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Surely sixth years can make their own way in a suburban area?

    Many groups (boys -v- girls, primary, -v- secondary) of rural schools have staggered starting times between them, so one school bus can make multiple runs.

    It would be useful if adults did stagger their starting times and some employers facilitate this.


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    #50
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    492504.JPG

    Am I missing something, the graph makes no sense to me.

    51% of car journeys are below 2km
    69% are, 2 less than 4:confused:???? guessing its meant to be <4km, bad labelling but makes sense.
    But then what happens at the top, 86% greater than 8km?? then only 14% are less than 8km so can't be that, the 86% includes less than 8km so what are the 14%.

    Can anyone explain?


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    #51
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    I'm assuming the graph is mis-labeled. If you read it as '<2km', '<4km', '<6km' etc it makes slightly better sense. It's still incorrectly labeled though. The '8+km' bar should be only 20% if '<8km' is truely 80%.


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    #52
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it is mislabelled, but in a different way. it's not 'irish car journeys by distance', but 'what percentage of journeys of this distance are made by private car'.
    there's an interactive chart here showing the other modes too:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451


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