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School demand management

  • 21-09-2019 2:12am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 77,807 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    This is one thing we do remarkably badly in this country. The vast majority of students at a given school start and finish at the same time, resulting in hundreds of students exiting school at the same time, overloading the roads an transport services. Admittedly, adjacent school may stagger times, especially in rural areas that are dependent on school buses, with the staggered times allowing a given bus to make additional journeys.

    I've swapped emails with a suburban secondary school principal where the situation is so bad that crowds of students are swarming the pedestrian crossing and walking on the roadway of an adjacent dual carriageway at school finishing time, as the footpaths aren't wide enough.

    Any thoughts on how moderate things in the short term?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    Victor wrote: »
    This is one thing we do remarkably badly in this country. The vast majority of students at a given school start and finish at the same time, resulting in hundreds of students exiting school at the same time, overloading the roads an transport services. Admittedly, adjacent school may stagger times, especially in rural areas that are dependent on school buses, with the staggered times allowing a given bus to make additional journeys.

    I've swapped emails with a suburban secondary school principal where the situation is so bad that crows of students are walking on the roadway of an adjacent dual carriageway at school finishing time, as the footpaths aren't wide enough.

    Any thoughts on how moderate things in the short term?

    Make the footpaths wider?


  • Registered Users Posts: 77,807 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    Make the footpaths wider?
    Would take time and there isn't a lot of space.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,141 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor


    Stop driving kids to school, problem fixed


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭ goingnowhere


    That doesn't fix the issue as the hoards of kids on the buses and train during the AM peak is a major problem to coping with demand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ Lord Glentoran


    Victor wrote: »
    This is one thing we do remarkably badly in this country. The vast majority of students at a given school start and finish at the same time, resulting in hundreds of students exiting school at the same time, overloading the roads an transport services. Admittedly, adjacent school may stagger times, especially in rural areas that are dependent on school buses, with the staggered times allowing a given bus to make additional journeys.

    I've swapped emails with a suburban secondary school principal where the situation is so bad that crowds of students are swarming the pedestrian crossing and walking on the roadway of an adjacent dual carriageway at school finishing time, as the footpaths aren't wide enough.

    Any thoughts on how moderate things in the short term?

    Yes. Get the wee toads walking and cycling. Mammy’s Taxi IS traffic.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,890 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    Get Bus Éireann ( or others if BE won't get off their backsides) to put on more school buses where there is clearly a demand and put an end to the bus lottery. It's a bit of a joke having kids 'striking' for climate change yet being ferried everywhere by mummy and her SUV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 77,807 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    It's a suburban school. The main problem is the amount of local students is too large for the current footpaths.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,890 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    Victor wrote: »
    It's a suburban school. The main problem is the amount of local students is too large for the current footpaths.

    Nothing a slap of a car won't sort.

    It doesn't entitle anyone to walk on the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    Nothing a slap of a car won't sort.

    It doesn't entitle anyone to walk on the road.

    The rules of the road entitle them to walk on it


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    what's the average distance travelled by kids to school?

    also, the notion that we should change when the school hours start seems at first glance to me to be a case of 'if this is the answer, we're asking the wrong questions'.
    what if you're a parent with kids in different schools, who now has to deal with two kids with starting times say an hour apart?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    They should all get on their bicycles and go to school. Less of mummies chauffeuring their kids a mile down the road in big SUVs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    They should all get on their bicycles and go to school. Less of mummies chauffeuring their kids a mile down the road in big SUVs.

    https://twitter.com/conormolloy/status/1052934482314055683

    It's not just kids who should be getting in their bikes. 5 k is an easy cycle


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭ KevRossi


    Short term the school could stagger starting and finishing times as well as break times.

    Also ban all school drops within 200m of the school, work with local Gardai on this.

    Plan safe waking and cycling routes on ‘Quiet Greenways’ from estates etc where a lot of kids live, use parents, older kids and teachers as Marshalls for these.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    They should all get on their bicycles and go to school. Less of mummies chauffeuring their kids a mile down the road in big SUVs.
    the problem is many parents won't let their kids cycle until the roads are quiet, but the roads won't get quiet till the parents stop driving the kids to school.

    and much as i dislike SUVs, it's not an SUV issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,104 ✭✭✭✭ Nekarsulm


    Staggering finish times for different classes is great, as long as you have only one child at the school.
    Collect little Paul at 3.55, then hang around clogging up the area until 4.15 for his sister to get out?
    And what benefit is it when children form every class gets on a particular bus?
    Run four buses instead of one, at ten minute intervals?
    Pay four drivers, pay four sets of insurance and tax?
    Can't see any bus company going for that..


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,463 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    Why are there no school buses?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,315 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dravokivich


    The rules of the road entitle them to walk on it

    For crossing, not as a walkway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ FrankPoll.


    I've noticed these zebra crossing or whatever they're called now

    A new one right outside the school and they're not properly signposted, there should be flashing lights before them

    Kids think they can just wander across them ,they're more dangerous than none at all


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,315 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dravokivich


    FrankPoll. wrote: »
    I've noticed these zebra crossing or whatever they're called now

    A new one right outside the school and they're not properly signposted, there should be flashing lights before them

    Kids think they can just wander across them ,they're more dangerous than none at all

    Kids just wander out regardless. Secondary school kids are always jumping onto the road my way without looking, coming from behind trucks and buses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ FrankPoll.


    Kids just wander out regardless. Secondary school kids are always jumping onto the road my way without looking, coming from behind trucks and buses.

    Ya but with the crossings they tend not to look around

    Why isn't there flashing lights ahead of these things ,too much trouble I guess


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    FrankPoll. wrote: »
    I've noticed these zebra crossing or whatever they're called now

    A new one right outside the school and they're not properly signposted, there should be flashing lights before them

    Kids think they can just wander across them ,they're more dangerous than none at all

    Eh isn't the the point of a zebra crossing. You're meant to yield


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,136 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    Yes. Get the wee toads walking and cycling. Mammy’s Taxi IS traffic.

    I love the way everyone is approaching this as a car traffic problem, when the OP has clearly said it's an issue with foot traffic capacity.

    Treat it like a nightclub: Marshall the kids inside school grounds and only let out as many each minute as the footpath can handle.

    As noted, staggered times doesn't work due to group pick-up issues. Kids from the same family / pickup-group who are being met by an adult have to meet up inside the school and leave together.

    Either that or close the road entirely - but that may have issues for deliveries and disabilities.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ FrankPoll.


    Eh isn't the the point of a zebra crossing. You're meant to yield

    If you see it in time


  • Registered Users Posts: 77,807 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Staggering finish times for different classes is great, as long as you have only one child at the school. Collect little Paul at 3.55, then hang around clogging up the area until 4.15 for his sister to get out?

    It need not be like that. Imagine letting sixth years (only) start at 10am and finish at 5pm (or whatever times, to fit class duration). It reduces peak demand by about 20%, which might be the whole of the excess demand.

    Otherwise, staggering class finishing times (not starting times) across even a period as short as a few minutes could make a difference.
    lawred2 wrote: »
    Why are there no school buses?
    Even in Dublin, there are some school buses. However, most children using buses use scheduled services. In this case, there are three routes nearby - each with a 20-minute frequency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ FrankPoll.


    The problem with staggering anything is you'd end up with more school runs not less

    The schools tightened up on parents dropping kids early which is no help to parents


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    For crossing, not as a walkway.

    all road users are entitled to be on the road. Pedestrians are road users, the carriageway is not reserved for cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,463 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    Victor wrote: »
    It need not be like that. Imagine letting sixth years (only) start at 10am and finish at 5pm (or whatever times, to fit class duration). It reduces peak demand by about 20%, which might be the whole of the excess demand.

    Otherwise, staggering class finishing times (not starting times) across even a period as short as a few minutes could make a difference.

    Even in Dublin, there are some school buses. However, most children using buses use scheduled services. In this case, there are three routes nearby - each with a 20-minute frequency.

    I live in Dublin. And I can tell you that not one bus will do the transit from our street to the local school. Not even close.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,463 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    FrankPoll. wrote: »
    The problem with staggering anything is you'd end up with more school runs not less

    The schools tightened up on parents dropping kids early which is no help to parents

    Tightened up because you couldn't get staff to do something that they didn't think they were getting paid for


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,315 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dravokivich


    Isambard wrote: »
    all road users are entitled to be on the road. Pedestrians are road users, the carriageway is not reserved for cars.

    I'm well aware theirs roads without paths. Thanks. But they should not be using it, in place of a path that doesn't let them walk down bunched outwards.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I live in Dublin. And I can tell you that not one bus will do the transit from our street to the local school. Not even close.

    How far the school from your house? Why not walk or cycle?


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