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14-01-2020, 16:59   #1
Shelga
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Why is the cost of property, esp renting, so high in Dublin?

With the general election looming, I really want to try and understand why the cost of housing for your average Joe is so astronomical in Ireland, especially Dublin, before I jump on the "it's all the politicians' fault" bandwagon- even if that does turn out to be the case!

I used to live in Birmingham, a city of a similar size to Dublin, for around 4 years. I lived in the city centre, in a 2-bedroom flat (old-ish, nothing spectacular, but nice, big bedrooms etc), next to Broad St, with a housemate, and our rent was £600 total, so £300 each per month. Now, this is not me having a whinge and a moan, I have zero desire to move back there, but I'm genuinely trying to understand why an apartment in a similarly centrally located part of Dublin would probably cost around €1900 to rent.

You usually hear it's a case of supply vs demand, but why is supply so low? Why is the cost to build so high? Why are there so few landlords, seemingly, compared to regional UK cities?

Would be good to strip all this back to basics and understand how it has come to this. The cost to buy is also quite high, but rent is the real killer, IMO. Would be great to hear from people who know about such things and hear their takes on it.

Basically, how much grief can I give the FG canvasser when he comes knocking on my door over the coming weeks!
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14-01-2020, 17:11   #2
Mike3549
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But Birmingham is not a capital city. In this case size really doesnt matter. Plus supply and demand. More people coming to Dublin than builders can build. Regulations for newbuilds. I heard It costs extra 20k to build a house this year compared to last year. Last year min ber was a3, this year - a2. And so on and on...
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14-01-2020, 17:15   #3
lainey_d_123
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What Mike said. Birmingham isn't a capital city and the bulk of the jobs are based in London. Dublin has loads of multinationals and there aren't a load of work opportunities elsewhere in Ireland, so it's a case of supply and demand. There are always more people looking for rooms/flats in Dublin and there are rooms and flats available.

I remember during the crash, the prices dropped right down, and the same studio in Rathmines I'd seen for 1200 euros pcm before the crash was going for 800, but that was short lived. I'd say rents are even worse than at the peak of the bubble right now.
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14-01-2020, 17:21   #4
Shelga
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But Berlin is a capital city? And rent is probably half that of Dublin.
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14-01-2020, 17:23   #5
JustAThought
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But Berlin is a capital city? And rent is probably half that of Dublin.
different country, high rise, rent control ,federal funding, givt owned blocks, lifelong leases at almost communist party rates , etc etc . Apples and oranges.
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14-01-2020, 17:24   #6
Taylor365
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The brilliant idea not to build high and to strangle transport routes to death.

Another corker - Every apartment requiring a parking space.
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14-01-2020, 17:29   #7
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Between 2005 and 2020 the population of Dublin has risen by around 200k people, that is around a 20% increase in population. During the crash construction all but stopped for a number of years despite the fact a lot of people were still moving to Dublin to find work. The supply side of things is still struggling to make up for that gap.
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14-01-2020, 17:29   #8
skooterblue2
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The real issues are why is everything centered around Dublin.
There are too many factories in Dublin 15 that could be more evenly distributed the country town. I think its been mentioned before that towns like Longford, Tipperary, Nenagh Mitchelstown and border towns are dying for industry and suffering from outward migration.
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14-01-2020, 17:32   #9
Amirani
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But Berlin is a capital city? And rent is probably half that of Dublin.
Per capita income in Dublin is about 50% higher than Berlin, and the general price levels are higher.

Berlin was economically stagnant for many years and has only really become a bit more vibrant in recent years: https://www.thelocal.de/20190424/new...-divisions-are

Rents in Berlin are actually high enough relative to disposable income.
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14-01-2020, 17:36   #10
Assetbacked
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The high cost is related to the lack of supply versus the huge increase in demand the past five years.

Evidence of this is found on the rental section on daft; anything affordable (i.e. Less than €2k per month) is old stock which only commands such high rent (relative to median salaries) because supply has been static for a decade. FG rely on the market to deliver the necessary housing supply yet they pay millions in subsidising rent for the less well-off - this ensures the institutionals at the top cream from working classes and those at the bottom become more dependent on the State. All at the expense of anyone who works for a living. The best solution is to significantly increase the supply of social housing, which FG just won't do.
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14-01-2020, 17:37   #11
lainey_d_123
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But Berlin is a capital city? And rent is probably half that of Dublin.
Have you been recently? Renting in Berlin is very expensive now, not that far off Dublin prices.

It's also not Germany's biggest industrial city where all the jobs are concentrated. There are loads of other big cities with jobs .- Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Cologne. Not the case in Ireland.
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14-01-2020, 18:01   #12
handlemaster
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Originally Posted by Shelga View Post
With the general election looming, I really want to try and understand why the cost of housing for your average Joe is so astronomical in Ireland, especially Dublin, before I jump on the "it's all the politicians' fault" bandwagon- even if that does turn out to be the case!

I used to live in Birmingham, a city of a similar size to Dublin, for around 4 years. I lived in the city centre, in a 2-bedroom flat (old-ish, nothing spectacular, but nice, big bedrooms etc), next to Broad St, with a housemate, and our rent was £600 total, so £300 each per month. Now, this is not me having a whinge and a moan, I have zero desire to move back there, but I'm genuinely trying to understand why an apartment in a similarly centrally located part of Dublin would probably cost around €1900 to rent.

You usually hear it's a case of supply vs demand, but why is supply so low? Why is the cost to build so high? Why are there so few landlords, seemingly, compared to regional UK cities?

Would be good to strip all this back to basics and understand how it has come to this. The cost to buy is also quite high, but rent is the real killer, IMO. Would be great to hear from people who know about such things and hear their takes on it.

Basically, how much grief can I give the FG canvasser when he comes knocking on my door over the coming weeks!
Can you compare salaries and quality of life for young professionals the driving force of the tech sector ?
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14-01-2020, 18:01   #13
ReReg Numpty
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The property & land markets have been monetised as an asset class, which means they are a strategic component of the nation's wealth.

In order to build that wealth, which is by and large good for everyone, supply is deliberately restricted to increase value, and to leverage further economic growth.

In theory, this is not an issue although it clearly impacts on people's lives in a way that other asset classes don't. A growing number of people now have accommodation rather than a home. But how bad is that relative to the benefits of a wealthy economy? That is a divisive debate.

Dublin is the principal engine driving this asset class, like London is in the UK. Not sure where is all going, seeing as there are some innovative construction techniques coming that will make house building much cheaper. Along with remote working, property prices could well stagnate in cities for years.
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14-01-2020, 18:05   #14
handlemaster
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Originally Posted by skooterblue2 View Post
The real issues are why is everything centered around Dublin.
There are too many factories in Dublin 15 that could be more evenly distributed the country town. I think its been mentioned before that towns like Longford, Tipperary, Nenagh Mitchelstown and border towns are dying for industry and suffering from outward migration.
Cost of transport for goods and suitable labourer force. Who would want to live in longford if you have a skilled training. We need the best the world has to offer for industry and this is not always irish.
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14-01-2020, 18:24   #15
Dav010
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Op, why is renting/buying in some parts of London so much more expensive than Birmingham?
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