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Injury not subsiding, what to do?

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    #32
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Eggs For Dinner wrote: »
    Not many countries will have awards of even half of what you have been offered for a soft tissue injury.

    But also not many countries have half the insurance premiums of what I get offered every year.


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    #33
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    the14thwarrior wrote: »
    a certain percentage of people are left with lasting pain from whiplash. Much like other injuries, once a part of the body is injured, it doesn't always make full recovery.
    At the risk of getting slammed, but with the intent of making sense of it, you could divide the medical field in half - half think the nerves and pain are physical based, half feel there is a psychological component to whiplash, and strongly advocate once you've learned your exercises, and ruled out anything serious, cease being a patient and get off the medical roundabout.
    once you've nothing to prove, you can get on with the matter of healing.

    It doesn't make sense to you because you are the one in great pain.
    Or you feel you deserve more.


    You are so focused on getting a good payout, you run the risk of not letting go of your experience, thus perpetuating the pain cycle.

    I know of five people in my circle alone that have whiplash, and none have gotten 20,000
    Having treated many many patients over the years, 20,000 is not a figure i would have heard too often.

    You are possible right here and definitely something I hadn’t considered. Thank you.

    In regards to being focused on getting a good payout, this isn’t necessarily true. I initially wanted to take the €13,000 payout as I saw it at the time as something easily covering my costs. My solicitor advised otherwise. Now I’m in a situation where I know the average settlement is way above what I was offered and I also know my symptoms are worse than average. So it just simply doesn’t add up to me, but again that comes back to your first point then.


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    #34
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    ronin88 wrote: »
    But also not many countries have half the insurance premiums of what I get offered every year.

    Do you suppose there might be a link?

    OP, have your day in court. Whiplash is a terrible thing, but at the end of the day, the difference between achieving an award of 20k, as opposed to 13k, is not going to make the pain subside. Best of luck


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    #35
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Eggs For Dinner wrote: »
    Do you suppose there might be a link?

    OP, have your day in court. Whiplash is a terrible thing, but at the end of the day, the difference between achieving an award of 20k, as opposed to 13k, is not going to make the pain subside. Best of luck

    No, I 100% agree. That was my point also, they go hand in hand.

    I don’t want a day in court and would love for it to all be over. I was advised this course of action, I was just hoping to find some clarity in the piab’s decision as it makes no sense to me. This part would all be over with had they made what my solicitor deemed a fair recommendation.


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    #36
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    the14thwarrior wrote: »
    The system will buckle under if chronic pain is used as a reflection of how high a payment may be - how can we prove this, how can we determine bad vs. awful vs. poor pain tolerence vs. not undertaking therapy vs. I'll go through the motions and fake pain and get 50,000 compo for a whiplash.

    I am not in any way suggesting OP is faking it, but get real of terms of how this would work in real life.


    Actually, that's how the system is supposed to work. The more pain and suffering you have, the more you should be compensated.

    That said, there is an obligation on the injured party to do as much as possible to mitigate the effects of the injury. Getting medical treatment such as physio on an ongoing basis is what should be done. Getting specialist medical advice regarding the prognosis is essential too. If it's an injury that is likely to cause ongoing issues into the future, then this would be built into the claim. All medical expenses such as physio etc. (if they are receipted) can be included in the claim.

    Legal advice isn't allowed so I won't give you legal advice but I will give you other advice.

    Do something about your neck pain. Go get medical advice. Go to physio if this is what is advised. Get your neck sorted first and when you can do no more with your neck, then focus on your level of compensation.


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    #37
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Actually, that's how the system is supposed to work. The more pain and suffering you have, the more you should be compensated.

    That said, there is an obligation on the injured party to do as much as possible to mitigate the effects of the injury. Getting medical treatment such as physio on an ongoing basis is what should be done. Getting specialist medical advice regarding the prognosis is essential too. If it's an injury that is likely to cause ongoing issues into the future, then this would be built into the claim. All medical expenses such as physio etc. (if they are receipted) can be included in the claim.

    Legal advice isn't allowed so I won't give you legal advice but I will give you other advice.

    Do something about your neck pain. Go get medical advice. Go to physio if this is what is advised. Get your neck sorted first and when you can do no more with your neck, then focus on your level of compensation.

    I’ve done everything imaginable for the pain. I’ve attended countless physio, received dry needling, tried injections, I do yoga and specific stretches, I use heat packs at night to try and attlieviate it, anti inflammatory gels. I think this is something I’m going to have to live with. I’ve played sport and every injury I ever received went after a certain amount of time, this it seems, will not!


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    #38
    the14thwarrior
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭the14thwarrior


    I feel sorry for you, lack of sleep is awful.
    I'm sure you have heard this before, but the type of pillow can help. What type of pillow is entirely dependent on you and your pain (in the neck). After a few different types, i settled on a pillow (bought in the old Clerys department) costing €65 euro. a single, hard pillow, very firm. best money i ever spent.

    i stayed away from memory foam (keeps you in a bad position and can be difficult to move out of when you do find a good position); foam or feathers didn't matter to me (but it was extremely difficult to find a hard feather pillow). i dropped to one pillow.

    For the first year of my injury i slept with a single towel folded over, no pillow at all, but i stress that worked for me in terms of neck support.

    the pillows with the different hollowed out levels? nightmare for me
    the pillows with fibres and wheat etc.? nightmare for me.

    I went on nightly medication for muscle relaxation - vallium worked for a while until my pain levels reduced.

    and every ten minutes, body awareness to DROP YOUR SHOULDERS. Drop your shoulders driving, reading, writing, pull them down to ensure complete muscle relaxation in this area at all times.


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    #39
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    the14thwarrior wrote: »
    I feel sorry for you, lack of sleep is awful.
    I'm sure you have heard this before, but the type of pillow can help. What type of pillow is entirely dependent on you and your pain (in the neck). After a few different types, i settled on a pillow (bought in the old Clerys department) costing €65 euro. a single, hard pillow, very firm. best money i ever spent.

    i stayed away from memory foam (keeps you in a bad position and can be difficult to move out of when you do find a good position); foam or feathers didn't matter to me (but it was extremely difficult to find a hard feather pillow). i dropped to one pillow.

    For the first year of my injury i slept with a single towel folded over, no pillow at all, but i stress that worked for me in terms of neck support.

    the pillows with the different hollowed out levels? nightmare for me
    the pillows with fibres and wheat etc.? nightmare for me.

    I went on nightly medication for muscle relaxation - vallium worked for a while until my pain levels reduced.

    and every ten minutes, body awareness to DROP YOUR SHOULDERS. Drop your shoulders driving, reading, writing, pull them down to ensure complete muscle relaxation in this area at all times.

    Thanks a million for all of that. It’s really appreciated.

    How long roughly till your pain subsided?

    The body awareness is something I haven’t heard before, I’ll try and be mindful of that!

    I have tried all the different pillows, didn’t really make a difference. My problem seems to be when my neck gets stiff from lack of movement then it causes the pain when I move it again. So the pillow etc doesn’t really matter if I’m idle. It means I’ll never sit for more than 25-30 mins at night, I’ll get up, make tea and move my neck etc...this has helped with it and increased my chances of getting to sleep but when I wake during the night that’s when the problems start.


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    #40
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    the14thwarrior wrote: »
    a certain percentage of people are left with lasting pain from whiplash. Much like other injuries, once a part of the body is injured, it doesn't always make full recovery.
    At the risk of getting slammed, but with the intent of making sense of it, you could divide the medical field in half - half think the nerves and pain are physical based, half feel there is a psychological component to whiplash, and strongly advocate once you've learned your exercises, and ruled out anything serious, cease being a patient and get off the medical roundabout.
    once you've nothing to prove, you can get on with the matter of healing.

    It doesn't make sense to you because you are the one in great pain.
    Or you feel you deserve more.


    You are so focused on getting a good payout, you run the risk of not letting go of your experience, thus perpetuating the pain cycle.

    I know of five people in my circle alone that have whiplash, and none have gotten 20,000
    Having treated many many patients over the years, 20,000 is not a figure i would have heard too often.

    Some people ( including doctors) believe you can end pain by simply choosing not to think about the pain anymore, those people are either stupid or callous

    The persistent pain is what ensures you keep thinking about it, pain is like that, you only cease thinking about it when it departs, you can't chose to ignore it and it will just up and leave, pain is in charge always


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    #41
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ronin88 wrote: »
    You are possible right here and definitely something I hadn’t considered. Thank you.

    In regards to being focused on getting a good payout, this isn’t necessarily true. I initially wanted to take the €13,000 payout as I saw it at the time as something easily covering my costs. My solicitor advised otherwise. Now I’m in a situation where I know the average settlement is way above what I was offered and I also know my symptoms are worse than average. So it just simply doesn’t add up to me, but again that comes back to your first point then.

    13 k is peanuts for a life altering injury, 50 k is barely sufficient


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    #42
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Some people ( including doctors) believe you can end pain by simply choosing not to think about the pain anymore, those people are either stupid or callous

    The persistent pain is what ensures you keep thinking about it, pain is like that, you only cease thinking about it when it departs, you can't chose to ignore it and it will just up and leave, pain is in charge always

    I had no prior knowledge or experience really of this until now.

    Up until this injury, if I hurt myself, twisted ankle, fall etc after a few days/maybe week or two it would heal and I wouldn’t think about it again.

    I assumed initially this injury would be the same. I didn’t even contact a solicitor for a few months because I was certain it would heal and go away. So in my mind and subconscious I wasn’t thinking about this as being a long term thing so like your comment says, it’s not in the head because in my head this was temporary. Which it hasn’t been.


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    #43
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    13 k is peanuts for a life altering injury, 50 k is barely sufficient

    I’m not expecting €50k. What I want is to not have to think about the financial aspect of this or for it to be a massive burden on me financially in the future. I’ve given it 3 years, done everything I can, gone to the most recommended specialists, and there’s still no improvement. I simply can’t afford to continue the treatment I’ve been getting anymore, I’ve spent a huge chunk of my savings trying to fix it.

    But I’m also aware that I can’t even put a figure on how much I’ll need going forward, I don’t know how long the symptoms will last or if they’ll get progressively worse. I suppose that’s what my fear is here, that not only will have this sleep issue for the rest of my life, but also all the financial strains that are attached to it.

    I honestly never knew all this could be so life altering


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Out of curioisity OP, how long did it take between you having the accident, and approaching a solicitor?

    Also, how long did it take between having the accident, and being offered your payout?


    In that time frame, did you find the injury worsened, improved or stayed the same? And when you were with your GP for the medical, did you ham it up, or play it down?

    (My thinking is that if you mention that you're getting worse, between accident and offer of settlement, then it seems unfair for them to even make a settlement in those circumstances? Although I'm unsure if these things take days, weeks, months or years between the actual accident and by the time the insurance make an offer).


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    #45
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Out of curioisity OP, how long did it take between you having the accident, and approaching a solicitor?

    Also, how long did it take between having the accident, and being offered your payout?


    In that time frame, did you find the injury worsened, improved or stayed the same? And when you were with your GP for the medical, did you ham it up, or play it down?

    (My thinking is that if you mention that you're getting worse, between accident and offer of settlement, then it seems unfair for them to even make a settlement in those circumstances? Although I'm unsure if these things take days, weeks, months or years between the actual accident and by the time the insurance make an offer).

    It was about 5 months between the accident and me approaching a solicitor. I had lots of physiotherapy sessions in that time, my first being a few days after the accident.

    I only approached a solicitor when it was clear that the injury wasn’t going away. I was very sure the symptoms would clear up eventually and to be honest even when I realised it wasn’t going away, I didn’t want to go to a solicitor about it because of the stigma attached with a whiplash claim.

    I was offered the initial settlement around 9 months after the accident, then the piab’s suggestion was about 2 years after the accident.

    The symptoms haven’t really changed to be honest. Some weeks are worse than others for no particular reason, other than luck it seems. I didn’t play it down or exaggerate it. But that’s the thing, I’m sure the fraudulent cases are exaggerated so when legitimate ones come before the piab they’re not sure where on the scale I am. I told him that although I could feel my injury during the day it didn’t really affect my life and I could live with it (the day part that is, although in all honesty I would definitely prefer if there wasn’t a pinch or strain when I turned my neck) but that at night it was problematic and stopped me from sleeping a lot.


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    #46
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ronin88 wrote: »
    I had no prior knowledge or experience really of this until now.

    Up until this injury, if I hurt myself, twisted ankle, fall etc after a few days/maybe week or two it would heal and I wouldn’t think about it again.

    I assumed initially this injury would be the same. I didn’t even contact a solicitor for a few months because I was certain it would heal and go away. So in my mind and subconscious I wasn’t thinking about this as being a long term thing so like your comment says, it’s not in the head because in my head this was temporary. Which it hasn’t been.

    Forgive me if my post gave the impression I was criticising you

    Was making a general point that the pain is what prompts thought about pain, not the other way around


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    #47
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Forgive me if my post gave the impression I was criticising you

    Was making a general point that the pain is what prompts thought about pain, not the other way around

    No I didn’t get that impression at all. I was backing up your point regarding pain being a thing in your head.

    I can also completely understand how or why people might be critical also. We all know there’s people out there milking the system so it’s hard to differentiate from the real cases and the fraudulent ones.


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    #48
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ronin88 wrote: »
    No I didn’t get that impression at all. I was backing up your point regarding pain being a thing in your head.

    I can also completely understand how or why people might be critical also. We all know there’s people out there milking the system so it’s hard to differentiate from the real cases and the fraudulent ones.

    The examples of fraud you read about in the paper are almost always the blatant ones, these are the personal injury stories which interest the media


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    #49
    the14thwarrior
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭the14thwarrior


    ronin88 wrote: »
    Thanks a million for all of that. It’s really appreciated.

    How long roughly till your pain subsided?

    The body awareness is something I haven’t heard before, I’ll try and be mindful of that!

    I have tried all the different pillows, didn’t really make a difference. My problem seems to be when my neck gets stiff from lack of movement then it causes the pain when I move it again. So the pillow etc doesn’t really matter if I’m idle. It means I’ll never sit for more than 25-30 mins at night, I’ll get up, make tea and move my neck etc...this has helped with it and increased my chances of getting to sleep but when I wake during the night that’s when the problems start.

    don't worry about how long my pain lasted, everyone is different and everyone heals (or not) at a different rate. for me, like yourself after any number of therapies, the muscle relaxants at night and the constant body awareness is what really helped change how i hold myself, my neck, how i use my shoulders, engage in all activities from brushing my teeth to doing my stretches. To this day, and as I type this, i found my shoulders raised up slightly, which in turn is putting pressure on my neck muscles.

    I admit I took Fielenkrais DVD but am very aware of how bodies move - from slightly holding my breath when I type, to tensing up when I brush my teeth, to rushing all my movements using all the wrong, teeny tiny muscles. of course i had to do this after one busted disc, followed by two car accidents and a fall down the stairs in consecutive years.

    I can tell you when I got rear ended, there was no damage to my car, and I settled at 13,000 as FOR ME, I knew i had to stop the worrying because the last car accident did more damage to my neck than me falling down a flight of stairs.

    And it was a young one on her phone I swear. And the first one was a rubber neck accident. both accidents I was stationary, and in fact, the police were at the side of the road beside my car when the person behind me was obviously looking at them and not at me and banged into me.

    DROP YOUR SHOULDERS. DEEP BREATH IN. LOSE THE TENSION IN YOUR NECK AT ALL TIMES DOING ALL YOUR ACTIVITIES.


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    #50
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Hi all,

    Just a quick check in. So I have a court date coming up in a couple of weeks. I’ve never been in a court before so not sure what to expect.

    The solicitors met and the defendants solicitor made a really ‘low offer’ and refused to negotiate so its arrived at this.

    What happens re court? Does the local paper be there to report on all matters? I’m from a reasonably small town so would prefer if this was not broadcast everywhere but obviously that’s out of my control. Will there be others in the courtroom?


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    #51
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,714 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    It's unlikely but not impossible your case will be written about. The majority of cases before the courts do not get much or any publicity but clearly some do.

    Unfortunately, there's not much science to it ime, it seems to be a bit of a lottery in terms of what the journos latch on to on any given day.


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    #52
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Are there reporters at the courthouse every day?

    How do they know what’s being seen on that particular day?


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    #53
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,355 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    ronin88 wrote: »
    Are there reporters at the courthouse every day?

    Depends on what business is being conducted and which part of the country we're talking about. Criminal cases in the local District or Circuit court will always have some journalists present. But civil cases which do not involve noteworthy locals will get no attention whatsoever.
    ronin88 wrote: »
    How do they know what’s being seen on that particular day?

    Every court above the District Court has a daily list. Your case would be listed as a civil case along the lines of Smith v. Murphy where you are Smith and the driver who hit you is Murphy. But a civil case arising out of a motor accident would bore the pants off anybody and they are seldom reported for the simple reason that the evidence can go on for hours and suddenly the parties go out of the court room, reach a settlement in the corridor and there's nothing to report.


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    #54
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Many District Courts also publish a daily list


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    #55
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    Ok thank you. I don't see anything online yet about it anyway, or can't find any lisings for any sittings in that court.

    I was just wondering, based on the above, if anyone knows how likely there's a settlement reached on the morning of the case?

    And what is the reasoning behind settling when consultants and specialists are already being paid at that stage to take the day off and attend?


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    #56
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,355 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    ronin88 wrote: »
    I was just wondering, based on the above, if anyone knows how likely there's a settlement reached on the morning of the case?

    Too many variables to make a prediction.
    ronin88 wrote: »
    And what is the reasoning behind settling when consultants and specialists are already being paid at that stage to take the day off and attend?

    On the day, one side can take fright because the judge the case is listed against has a reputation for being mean or overly generous. If he's a mean judge, the plaintiff may (based on the advice from his solicitor) cave in and settle. If it's a generous judge, the defendant may want to settle beforehand. Or it could be an unpredictable judge, in which both sides may just decide to remove him/her as a variable and settle.


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    #57
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    coylemj wrote: »
    Too many variables to make a prediction.



    On the day, one side can take fright because the judge the case is listed against has a reputation for being mean or overly generous. If he's a mean judge, the plaintiff may (based on the advice from his solicitor) cave in and settle. If it's a generous judge, the defendant may want to settle beforehand. Or it could be an unpredictable judge, in which both sides may just decide to remove him/her as a variable and settle.

    Oh ok. Thank you for that. I haven't been called for an examination by the defendants solicitors, which I find very strange. They're basically going to trial without an expert opinion in their corner.

    I'm not sure what their argument will be without any medical reports from their side to lean on.

    I'm sure the judge will be fair. I'd like to think I'll receive a fair settlement as I've a physio who can vouch I've attended sessions every week for the past 3 years, a doctor that I've seen multiple times in relation to this and also a consultant who will be present to give evidence.


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    #58
    ronin88
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ronin88


    ronin88 wrote: »
    Oh ok. Thank you for that. I haven't been called for an examination by the defendants solicitors, which I find very strange. They're basically going to trial without an expert opinion in their corner.

    I'm not sure what their argument will be without any medical reports from their side to lean on.

    I'm sure the judge will be fair. I'd like to think I'll receive a fair settlement as I've a physio who can vouch I've attended sessions every week for the past 3 years, a doctor that I've seen multiple times in relation to this and also a consultant who will be present to give evidence.

    Also does anyone know where I might find the cases up for hearing online?

    I’ve gone to the courts website but can’t find the listenings anywhere


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    #59
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,355 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    ronin88 wrote: »
    Also does anyone know where I might find the cases up for hearing online?

    http://courts.ie/legaldiary.nsf/download/1?opendocument


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