Injury not subsiding, what to do?

ronin88

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone here has any idea of this, not looking for any exact figures or timeframe, just looking for peoples opinions as my solicitor is reluctant to give me anything specific.

Three years ago I was rear ended and sent into a nearby wall, I ended up having whiplash/neck pain. I went for an mri which didn’t show up any disc damage which is great. Problem is I still have neck pain and it gives me serious issues at night. If I wake at any stage I find it almost impossible to get back to sleep with the discomfort.

I’ve had countless physio treatments, dry needling, massage, acupuncture and although I get some short term relief, it’s invariably back after a day or so.

Initially I didn’t go through a solicitor, as I thought the issue would subside but it never did. When I contacted a solicitor the insurance company made me an offer of €13,000. The solicitor told me to reject this as it was low and that I may have longer lasting injuries. This was 2 years ago.

Then we went through the piab, I went to their specialist and was completely honest with him, I told him that my neck was still an issue, that it didn’t affect my day all that much other than curtailing some stuff with sport but that it was a serious issue at night and really disrupted my sleep. Their recommendation was a settlement of €12,000. That was 1 year ago.

Right now I still have the neck issue. I’ve gone to another specialist who has issued me with a general anistethic to the area of my neck, this worked for a period but the pain returned. The second treatment was a cortisone injection to the area. This worked for a longer period, maybe 3 weeks but again the pain returned.

Since the accident my finiancial circumstances have changed, at the time of the accident I had a great job with a great salary. About a year ago the company went bankrupt and I’m now in new employment on much less money. I’ve also just had a child. The physio, doctor, injections, specialists visits, heat packs, pain killers have all added up and to be quite honest I can’t afford the treatment any more.

What I’m wondering is what is my best move?Initially I was offered €13,000 and was advised to say no, then piab recommended €12,000 and now the solicitor wants to move on to a court date. I don’t know what to do, the longer it drags out presumably the more I’ll have to pay the solicitor? And I really don’t want to go to court. So how likely is it I’ll even end up with €10,000 even though the initial offer was €13,000?

Sorry now for the real long winded post...I was just trying to be as accurate as possible. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

ronin88

ronin88 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone here has any idea of this, not looking for any exact figures or timeframe, just looking for peoples opinions as my solicitor is reluctant to give me anything specific.

Three years ago I was rear ended and sent into a nearby wall, I ended up having whiplash/neck pain. I went for an mri which didn’t show up any disc damage which is great. Problem is I still have neck pain and it gives me serious issues at night. If I wake at any stage I find it almost impossible to get back to sleep with the discomfort.

I’ve had countless physio treatments, dry needling, massage, acupuncture and although I get some short term relief, it’s invariably back after a day or so.

Initially I didn’t go through a solicitor, as I thought the issue would subside but it never did. When I contacted a solicitor the insurance company made me an offer of €13,000. The solicitor told me to reject this as it was low and that I may have longer lasting injuries. This was 2 years ago.

Then we went through the piab, I went to their specialist and was completely honest with him, I told him that my neck was still an issue, that it didn’t affect my day all that much other than curtailing some stuff with sport but that it was a serious issue at night and really disrupted my sleep. Their recommendation was a settlement of €12,000. That was 1 year ago.

Right now I still have the neck issue. I’ve gone to another specialist who has issued me with a general anistethic to the area of my neck, this worked for a period but the pain returned. The second treatment was a cortisone injection to the area. This worked for a longer period, maybe 3 weeks but again the pain returned.

Since the accident my finiancial circumstances have changed, at the time of the accident I had a great job with a great salary. About a year ago the company went bankrupt and I’m now in new employment on much less money. I’ve also just had a child. The physio, doctor, injections, specialists visits, heat packs, pain killers have all added up and to be quite honest I can’t afford the treatment any more.

What I’m wondering is what is my best move?Initially I was offered €13,000 and was advised to say no, then piab recommended €12,000 and now the solicitor wants to move on to a court date. I don’t know what to do, the longer it drags out presumably the more I’ll have to pay the solicitor? And I really don’t want to go to court. So how likely is it I’ll even end up with €10,000 even though the initial offer was €13,000?

Sorry now for the real long winded post...I was just trying to be as accurate as possible. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone have any idea what sort of settlement with regards to this?

The book of quantum seems to suggest between €30k-€49k but that seems way over what the piab offered.

ronin88

<Mod snip>

Thanks for the response. No problem if that is the case, I’m obviously worried if the injury never subsides and I end up needing an operation. Like I said the day to day part, although at times there’s discomfort, I could live with. But my sleep, and lack of, is a serious issue and this is having an adverse affect on my mental health.

The reason I asked on here was because boards is full of people with great insight and knowledge. I was wondering if anyone knew of the process, how the arrive at their figures. After 1 year the offer was €13,00...the second year it was €12,000, this doesn’t add up with anything it read on the book of quantum. How has it become lower even though my issue persists with loads and loads of treatment from physios, doctors and specialists.

how.gareth

I was involved in a crash 3 years ago and had minor tissue damage to my shoulder but was still feeling the pain and discomfort after 6 months and was offered and accept €13k of the piab, to be honest I was more than happy but still can’t tilt my head fully to one side without feeling a bit of pain and probably need a bit more physio to sort it

BattleCorp

how.gareth wrote: »

<Mod snip>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This obviously isn't legal advice but fcuked if I'd do what has been advised above.

That person doesn't know your medical condition, what the prognosis is, how long you are likely to suffer the ill-effects of this injury or if you'll ever even recover fully.

They also don't know how much money you've spent so far on treatment etc. or if you have a loss of earnings etc.

So how can they determine how much compensation would be adequate for the level of injury that you suffered?

ronin88

BattleCorp wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This obviously isn't legal advice but fcuked if I'd do what has been advised above.

That person doesn't know your medical condition, what the prognosis is, how long you are likely to suffer the ill-effects of this injury or if you'll ever even recover fully.

They also don't know how much money you've spent so far on treatment etc. or if you have a loss of earnings etc.

So how can they determine how much compensation would be adequate for the level of injury that you suffered?

What I don’t understand, and I know the piab book of quantum isn’t exact in every case, is how are their figures online being used here? Online it’s says up to €15,000 if it’s minor and there’s a full recovery within 12-18 months. I’m now over 36 months and I’ve still got the same symptoms and serious serious issues sleeping.

I’ve tried everything, and I’m not getting anywhere and my fear is this is something I’ll have to deal with for the rest of my life.

BattleCorp

ronin88 wrote: »

What I don’t understand, and I know the piab book of quantum isn’t exact in every case, is how are their figures online being used here? Online it’s says up to €15,000 if it’s minor and there’s a full recovery within 12-18 months. I’m now over 36 months and I’ve still got the same symptoms and serious serious issues sleeping.

I’ve tried everything, and I’m not getting anywhere and my fear is this is something I’ll have to deal with for the rest of my life.

PIAB make their report based on what the doctor tells them. Their doc probably marked your injury as minor and with a short timeframe to recovery. Things didn't obviously pan out that way as your injury is more serious.

If you don't want to accept the €10k-€13k offer, then you will be going into court to argue that your injury is more serious. Or at least begin the process in the hope that the insurance company will up their offer.

One piece of advice, don't rush to a decision. Once you accept an offer, then that's it. Done and dusted. And if you have any further neck problems, there's no pot to go back to for more money.

Just as an aside, only about 5% of injury claims make it all the way to court. Most are settled before court and some are dropped.

BattleCorp

jamesf85 wrote: »

Thanks for this post...very good insight!

Why would any be dropped?

I would have accepted the €13,000 offer initially because I believed that the injury would subside but the solicitor advised me not to as the offer was low. Then the piab recommended €12,000. Which was a year later. I was completely honest with them, the specialist kept asking me if I and how it affected my day, but I was honest, there’s a discomfort but during the day that’s it, no major affect on my life. I stressed how bad it affects my sleep but he didn’t really care or focus on this. But this is the reason I’m going down this road, because the poor sleep is really affecting my life.

Claims can be dropped due to evidence emerging that someone was exaggerating their claim. It's not uncommon for people to get caught out. One guy in my area claimed to be practically crippled due to his injury and the following week he was recorded taking part in a body-building competition. Another guy I know took part in a 12 mile 'To Hell And Back' type race while he was out of work injured.

New evidence regarding liability could also come out through investigations which might cause a case to be dropped.

And some cases are dropped because the injured party doesn't want the bother of it or they might move away and the solicitor can't contact them.

enricoh

I was rear ended a few years ago while at the traffic lights by a drunk driver. I was a passenger in it n had a good few drinks in me n i was grand. The girl driving had a lot of hassle with her neck, (definitely not a spoofer) n when her case came up she didn't want to make much drama.
She got a miserly payout, and years later she's still paying for treatments etc out of her own pocket.

BattleCorp

enricoh wrote: »

I was rear ended a few years ago while at the traffic lights by a drunk driver. I was a passenger in it n had a good few drinks in me n i was grand. The girl driving had a lot of hassle with her neck, (definitely not a spoofer) n when her case came up she didn't want to make much drama.
She got a miserly payout, and years later she's still paying for treatments etc out of her own pocket.

I was injured in a car accident way back in 2001. I'm not long off the phone with my physio booking another appointment for this Friday evening. Some injuries have consequences for the rest of a person's life.

BattleCorp

jamesf85 wrote: »

I would have accepted the first offer too, like this woman, but thankfully I had a solicitor. Now I realise that it was a great decision as I’ve still got the issues.

I always thought whiplash was a made up injury, but I can see now the effects it has on peoples lives. I personally don’t want to go down the courts route, I’m from a rural area and I know everyone will be talking about it and people will think (just like I used to) that I’m looking for a handy payout. Especially since I’ve no visible injury. Financially all this treatment is starting to put a strain and it’s holding me back from moving forward with my life but that can’t be helped I suppose.

Not legal advice but the chances of you seeing the inside of a courthouse are pretty slim. Like I said earlier, only about 5% of cases go to court. And these are often the cases where liability is an issue.

Obviously I don't know the circumstances of your incident so I can't say where liability lies but usually when you are struck from behind by another car, it's usually the other car that is held liable for the incident.

In my experience, when liability isn't an issue, then insurance companies usually try to settle before court as this can help keep the costs to them down. That's why such a huge percentage of cases settle before court, many of them on the morning of the court case.

If you go the court route, your solicitor will probably send you to a consultant for updated medicals and that should give you a good idea of your prognosis and it will also help your solicitor to determine what figure would be suitable compensation for your injury.

By the way, you should try to keep going for medical treatment such as physio etc. for two reasons.

1. It will help improve your recovery.

2. You are expected to try mitigate your losses. This simply means that you should do everything you can to improve your situation. If a doctor recommended physio and you didn't go, it could be argued by the insurance company that you did nothing to mitigate your losses and that can affect your claim.

_Brian

Often injuries never go away.

I had a horrific accident in 2009, piab sent my case on for court as it was serious and complicated.

The insurance company faught hard for five whole torturous years and then without a word voided the insurance of the company who’s van struck me.

The company ended footing a very serious medic and legal bill. It was quite shocking.

I have life altering injuries and had to change jobs through incapacity from injury.

BattleCorp

jamesf85 wrote: »

There’s no liability issue, I was completely stopped when rear ended, seat belt on etc and was sent forwards into a wall. I asked the person if they wanted me to send my car to their mechanic but they said they had admitted liability to their insurance company and had to go through insurance as their car was a write off (turns out, so was mine).

I have seen a physio over 40 times. And although it helps in the short term, within a day the issue is back. The same with the specialist, I have had two injections, one general and one cortisone and both helped short term but the problem returned.

I don’t want to drag it out but at €12,000 I feel like I could really sucker myself if it ends up never going away.

The person driving the car admitting liability for the incident to their insurance company means next to nothing. The insurance company won't accept liability based on what their client says, they will investigate the circumstances and then make a decision on liability. That's in the short term, the courts will ultimately determine who is liable in the long term.

It sounds like you need sustained medical attention and if that's the case, €12,000 won't go very far.

Your solicitor won't give you a figure yet as they don't want to get your hopes up. They'll probably tell you what they think the injury is worth whenever a court case or settlement meeting is agreed upon. Before that, they'll need consultants reports etc. to determine the extent of your injuries.

BattleCorp

jamesf85 wrote: »

Sorry I don’t follow. The person driving the car admitted to their insurance they were at fault. There’s photographs of the incident where you can see their car ‘stuck’ to my rear end, and also my car in the wall. Basically my car sandwiched between the two. There’s also witnesses. Their insurance company also made me an offer of €13,000 which surely admits liability?

You are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that you are liable or that liability is an issue. I'm just saying that the insurance company decides who is liable based on their evidence, and not the person driving the car. The person driving the car is essentially only a witness on behalf of the insurance company. They will listen to what they have to say and then investigate the circumstances and only then will they decide if they are liable.

I'm not saying this is the case with your claim but there have been cases in the past where a driver admits liability but they were found not to be liable. It can happen.

Given the circumstances you outlined, it does indeed sound like the other driver is liable, but this is the internet, I wasn't there when the incident happened and it would be irresponsible for me to state who is liable when I'm not party to the proceedings.

By the way, that settlement of €13k would be made without an admission of liability. Sounds strange, but that's the way it would be.

BattleCorp

jamesf85 wrote: »

Ah ok. Thank you for that. I wasn’t aware. Ok, so there is a long road to go here bofore this is finished. I’m not sure how much longer I can keep attending physio and the specialist and continue to meet my other finiancial obligations, this has eaten considerably into my savings, but I’ll cross that bridge when it comes I suppose.

Many claims are settled for less than they are worth due to financial necessity - unfortunately.

Best of luck.

3DataModem

The reality is that there is no absolutely guaranteed fair outcome for these situations. You might have recurring problems for decades, you might have no problems for ten years then a fall might flare things up. There is no way of knowing.

I'd suggest getting a second opinion about the likely long-term prognosis, and make a personal decision based on that, and if you decide to take the 13k or whatever, do it and don't look back.

Two tips;
1. Don't overestimate the ability for a solicitor to get the best deal for YOUR circumstances.
2. Don't underestimate the mental benefit of just putting the financial aspect behind you. If you have good health insurance that doesn't classify this as a preexisting condition and live somewhere with reasonable healthcare (e.g. Ireland) there is no reason you will be able to forsee spending huge amounts long term.

And a final note; insurance companies absolutely can and do get low-cost PIs to check up on you ESPECIALLY if you plan going to court. Lifting your kids is one thing, but jumping on the trampoline, playing golf, etc... one snap is all it takes and your claim could be severely impaired.

ronin88

Thank you everyone for all the responses.

Sorry now to drag up the thread again, another sleepless night because of my neck

I was reading about average timeframe for court dates and whiplash claims in general and came across an article in the Irish journal that said the average payout for whiplash in 2018 was for €20k.

I can’t understand for the life of me how the average pay out is nearly €20k but the piab made a recommendation to me for €12k.

I’ve been over 3 year now with this constant neck pain, sleepless nights and days of exhaustion at work and then I see the average payout is €20k.

This is a complete joke. I mean a neighbor of mine tipped into someone, didn’t even dent or scratch the bumper and without her insurance company even contacting her for a statement they paid out €15k to the “victim”. Yet here I am 70+ physio sessions deep, countless sleepless nights, cortisone injections, missed opportunities at work that I can’t even quantify because of my exhaustion and they offered me €12k. I honestly don’t know what to say

Mad_maxx

Sorry for your awful plight OP, I'm about to send off a medical legal report to the injuries board, 25kg block fell four feet onto my foot last summer when I was helping out what used to be a friend (with a small f)

This idiot is so thick, he flat out refused to co-operate on any level and it's likely he will not be covered by insurance for not reporting on time, took it in his head that I wasn't hurt despite witnessing exactly what happened and the accident was entirely his fault, he is affronted at the idea of someone claiming off him

Anyway I'm willing to take the assh0les house but I'm told in reality this never happens, you can get a charge on house but meaningless until person dies?

BattleCorp

ronin88 wrote: »

Thank you everyone for all the responses.

Sorry now to drag up the thread again, another sleepless night because of my neck

I was reading about average timeframe for court dates and whiplash claims in general and came across an article in the Irish journal that said the average payout for whiplash in 2018 was for €20k.

I can’t understand for the life of me how the average pay out is nearly €20k but the piab made a recommendation to me for €12k.

I’ve been over 3 year now with this constant neck pain, sleepless nights and days of exhaustion at work and then I see the average payout is €20k.

This is a complete joke. I mean a neighbor of mine tipped into someone, didn’t even dent or scratch the bumper and without her insurance company even contacting her for a statement they paid out €15k to the “victim”. Yet here I am 70+ physio sessions deep, countless sleepless nights, cortisone injections, missed opportunities at work that I can’t even quantify because of my exhaustion and they offered me €12k. I honestly don’t know what to say

There's absolutely no obligation on you to accept the PIAB offer. You are free to reject it and proceed to court. I'm not advising that you one way or the other, I'm just mentioning an option.

ronin88

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Sorry for your awful plight OP, I'm about to send off a medical legal report to the injuries board, 25kg block fell four feet onto my foot last summer when I was helping out what used to be a friend (with a small f)

This idiot is so thick, he flat out refused to co-operate on any level and it's likely he will not be covered by insurance for not reporting on time, took it in his head that I wasn't hurt despite witnessing exactly what happened and the accident was entirely his fault, he is affronted at the idea of someone claiming off him

Anyway I'm willing to take the assh0les house but I'm told in reality this never happens, you can get a charge on house but meaningless until person dies?

Wow that sounds really awful. Only positive is at least you now know he’s not a true friend.

Hope your injury subsided and you’re successful in whatever it is you’re looking for.

ronin88

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's absolutely no obligation on you to accept the PIAB offer. You are free to reject it and proceed to court. I'm not advising that you one way or the other, I'm just mentioning an option.

I didn’t accept it, based on my solicitors advice. But I can’t indeestand how the piab came to that conclusion that €12,000 was fair when it was 2 years on at this stage and I still had the exact same symptoms and issues.

Maybe I should have gone to their specialist and exaggerated my condition rather than being completely honest with him. I told him that my day to day living wasn’t really affected, that I could feel my neck during the day but it didn’t really stop me doing anything, but I was very specific to tell him that it was a completely different story at night, when my neck would stiffen up and any movement would cause pain and stop me from sleeping.

Anyway, I just don’t understand how €20k is the average whiplash payout yet I was offered €12k despite it really really affecting my life

Mad_maxx

ronin88 wrote: »

Wow that sounds really awful. Only positive is at least you now know he’s not a true friend.

Hope your injury subsided and you’re successful in whatever it is you’re looking for.

The pain is worse than ever, had my second cortisone injection last week and it did nothing, yesterday was the hardest day I've ever experienced, I've developed severe arthritis as a consequence of the injury and that is a guest for life

ronin88

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The pain is worse than ever, had my second cortisone injection last week and it did nothing, yesterday was the hardest day I've ever experienced, I've developed severe arthritis as a consequence of the injury and that is a guest for life

Oh no, really sorry to hear that. Is it your foot?

Mad_maxx

ronin88 wrote: »

I didn’t accept it, based on my solicitors advice. But I can’t indeestand how the piab came to that conclusion that €12,000 was fair when it was 2 years on at this stage and I still had the exact same symptoms and issues.

Maybe I should have gone to their specialist and exaggerated my condition rather than being completely honest with him. I told him that my day to day living wasn’t really affected, that I could feel my neck during the day but it didn’t really stop me doing anything, but I was very specific to tell him that it was a completely different story at night, when my neck would stiffen up and any movement would cause pain and stop me from sleeping.

Anyway, I just don’t understand how €20k is the average whiplash payout yet I was offered €12k despite it really really affecting my life

In my experience, doctors play down injuries and especially how much suffering the victim is enduring, found consultants get all coy when asked to do up a report as if they view the whole potential compensation quest as distasteful, they thus tend to not stress near enough how serious the injury is for the person effected, doctors also hate when you tell them too much about what is bothering you, they prefer ignore you and listen to the scan results, if it doesn't say your in trouble on screen, your not

the14thwarrior

Unfortunately your whiplash injury has a cap on it, by virtue of the injury itself. I know three people in the last few years, including myself, that have been injured as such. 13,000 is average, and you might get a bit more in court.

I'm not being unduly harsh, but it is a soft tissue injury, there were no bones broken or nerve injury, albeit its a bad case, there is no real way of knowing how bad it will affect you in the future and the court doctors know this. Anyway that has stretched or damaged ligaments will tell you they are never the same, be it ankle, wrist or neck.

I have experience in this field. Trust me - the sooner you settle be it in court or out of court and accept that it happened, life is different and your anger and frustration is under control, i truly believe you will gain a better quality of life.

Mine happened over 10 years ago, i still can't move my head fully to the right but then again i hurt my ankle 20 years ago and can't sit certain ways.

I think your expectations on a high payout may be unrealistic

ronin88

the14thwarrior wrote: »

Unfortunately your whiplash injury has a cap on it, by virtue of the injury itself. I know three people in the last few years, including myself, that have been injured as such. 13,000 is average, and you might get a bit more in court.

I'm not being unduly harsh, but it is a soft tissue injury, there were no bones broken or nerve injury, albeit its a bad case, there is no real way of knowing how bad it will affect you in the future and the court doctors know this. Anyway that has stretched or damaged ligaments will tell you they are never the same, be it ankle, wrist or neck.

I have experience in this field. Trust me - the sooner you settle be it in court or out of court and accept that it happened, life is different and your anger and frustration is under control, i truly believe you will gain a better quality of life.

Mine happened over 10 years ago, i still can't move my head fully to the right but then again i hurt my ankle 20 years ago and can't sit certain ways.

I think your expectations on a high payout may be unrealistic

I actually had no expectations initially. I expected the symptoms to go away so didn’t make a claim for months despite getting lots of physio.

I think sought a solicitor when I realised it wasn’t subsiding and I was nearly immediately made an offer of €13k from the insurance company, the solicitor advised to turn that down and a year on the piab offered €12k, again I was advised to turn that down. Now I’m 3 years in and the symptoms are the same but I’ve had countless sleepless nights and who knows how many more. I’m also reading on the book of quantum that injuries similar to mine would be between €20-30k or possibly even the next bracket of €34-€52k.

I’m not saying this is what I want or I’m expecting. What I’m saying is it doesn’t make sense that the average whiplash payout last year was €20k and I’m 3 years in and I’m in the same situation as the day it happened and I’m being offered €12k for something their own guildlines states is much higher.

I’d much prefer to have your average whiplash case, where I might have a loss of movement but I can sleep at night. Right now I’m lucky if I get 3-4 nights sleep a week and during the day I still have a pinch in my neck (albeit, it doesn’t restrict me during the day)

Mad_maxx

the14thwarrior wrote: »

Unfortunately your whiplash injury has a cap on it, by virtue of the injury itself. I know three people in the last few years, including myself, that have been injured as such. 13,000 is average, and you might get a bit more in court.

I'm not being unduly harsh, but it is a soft tissue injury, there were no bones broken or nerve injury, albeit its a bad case, there is no real way of knowing how bad it will affect you in the future and the court doctors know this. Anyway that has stretched or damaged ligaments will tell you they are never the same, be it ankle, wrist or neck.

I have experience in this field. Trust me - the sooner you settle be it in court or out of court and accept that it happened, life is different and your anger and frustration is under control, i truly believe you will gain a better quality of life.

Mine happened over 10 years ago, i still can't move my head fully to the right but then again i hurt my ankle 20 years ago and can't sit certain ways.

I think your expectations on a high payout may be unrealistic

Soft tissue damage is worse in terms of lasting pain effects as its so hard to fix, that payouts are low is a reflection of how chronic pain is not really taken seriously

the14thwarrior

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Soft tissue damage is worse in terms of lasting pain effects as its so hard to fix, that payouts are low is a reflection of how chronic pain is not really taken seriously

The system will buckle under if chronic pain is used as a reflection of how high a payment may be - how can we prove this, how can we determine bad vs. awful vs. poor pain tolerence vs. not undertaking therapy vs. I'll go through the motions and fake pain and get 50,000 compo for a whiplash.

I am not in any way suggesting OP is faking it, but get real of terms of how this would work in real life.

ronin88

the14thwarrior wrote: »

The system will buckle under if chronic pain is used as a reflection of how high a payment may be - how can we prove this, how can we determine bad vs. awful vs. poor pain tolerence vs. not undertaking therapy vs. I'll go through the motions and fake pain and get 50,000 compo for a whiplash.

I am not in any way suggesting OP is faking it, but get real of terms of how this would work in real life.

I certainly don’t expect it to be based that. But I can’t understand how ongoing issues for over 3 years, 70+ physio sessions, mri’s, doctor visits, 2 specialists and cortisone injections and still the problem persists, can result in a recommendation of 12k from piab when the average payout is €20k and I know of whiplash cases settled within weeks of the accident for more.

This makes no sense to me.

the14thwarrior

ronin88 wrote: »

I certainly don’t expect it to be based that. But I can’t understand how ongoing issues for over 3 years, 70+ physio sessions, mri’s, doctor visits, 2 specialists and cortisone injections and still the problem persists, can result in a recommendation of 12k from piab when the average payout is €20k and I know of whiplash cases settled within weeks of the accident for more.

This makes no sense to me.

a certain percentage of people are left with lasting pain from whiplash. Much like other injuries, once a part of the body is injured, it doesn't always make full recovery.
At the risk of getting slammed, but with the intent of making sense of it, you could divide the medical field in half - half think the nerves and pain are physical based, half feel there is a psychological component to whiplash, and strongly advocate once you've learned your exercises, and ruled out anything serious, cease being a patient and get off the medical roundabout.
once you've nothing to prove, you can get on with the matter of healing.

It doesn't make sense to you because you are the one in great pain.
Or you feel you deserve more.


You are so focused on getting a good payout, you run the risk of not letting go of your experience, thus perpetuating the pain cycle.

I know of five people in my circle alone that have whiplash, and none have gotten 20,000
Having treated many many patients over the years, 20,000 is not a figure i would have heard too often.

Eggs For Dinner

Not many countries will have awards of even half of what you have been offered for a soft tissue injury.

ronin88

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Not many countries will have awards of even half of what you have been offered for a soft tissue injury.

But also not many countries have half the insurance premiums of what I get offered every year.

ronin88

the14thwarrior wrote: »

a certain percentage of people are left with lasting pain from whiplash. Much like other injuries, once a part of the body is injured, it doesn't always make full recovery.
At the risk of getting slammed, but with the intent of making sense of it, you could divide the medical field in half - half think the nerves and pain are physical based, half feel there is a psychological component to whiplash, and strongly advocate once you've learned your exercises, and ruled out anything serious, cease being a patient and get off the medical roundabout.
once you've nothing to prove, you can get on with the matter of healing.

It doesn't make sense to you because you are the one in great pain.
Or you feel you deserve more.


You are so focused on getting a good payout, you run the risk of not letting go of your experience, thus perpetuating the pain cycle.

I know of five people in my circle alone that have whiplash, and none have gotten 20,000
Having treated many many patients over the years, 20,000 is not a figure i would have heard too often.

You are possible right here and definitely something I hadn’t considered. Thank you.

In regards to being focused on getting a good payout, this isn’t necessarily true. I initially wanted to take the €13,000 payout as I saw it at the time as something easily covering my costs. My solicitor advised otherwise. Now I’m in a situation where I know the average settlement is way above what I was offered and I also know my symptoms are worse than average. So it just simply doesn’t add up to me, but again that comes back to your first point then.

Eggs For Dinner

ronin88 wrote: »

But also not many countries have half the insurance premiums of what I get offered every year.

Do you suppose there might be a link?

OP, have your day in court. Whiplash is a terrible thing, but at the end of the day, the difference between achieving an award of 20k, as opposed to 13k, is not going to make the pain subside. Best of luck

ronin88

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Do you suppose there might be a link?

OP, have your day in court. Whiplash is a terrible thing, but at the end of the day, the difference between achieving an award of 20k, as opposed to 13k, is not going to make the pain subside. Best of luck

No, I 100% agree. That was my point also, they go hand in hand.

I don’t want a day in court and would love for it to all be over. I was advised this course of action, I was just hoping to find some clarity in the piab’s decision as it makes no sense to me. This part would all be over with had they made what my solicitor deemed a fair recommendation.

BattleCorp

the14thwarrior wrote: »

The system will buckle under if chronic pain is used as a reflection of how high a payment may be - how can we prove this, how can we determine bad vs. awful vs. poor pain tolerence vs. not undertaking therapy vs. I'll go through the motions and fake pain and get 50,000 compo for a whiplash.

I am not in any way suggesting OP is faking it, but get real of terms of how this would work in real life.

Actually, that's how the system is supposed to work. The more pain and suffering you have, the more you should be compensated.

That said, there is an obligation on the injured party to do as much as possible to mitigate the effects of the injury. Getting medical treatment such as physio on an ongoing basis is what should be done. Getting specialist medical advice regarding the prognosis is essential too. If it's an injury that is likely to cause ongoing issues into the future, then this would be built into the claim. All medical expenses such as physio etc. (if they are receipted) can be included in the claim.

Legal advice isn't allowed so I won't give you legal advice but I will give you other advice.

Do something about your neck pain. Go get medical advice. Go to physio if this is what is advised. Get your neck sorted first and when you can do no more with your neck, then focus on your level of compensation.

ronin88

BattleCorp wrote: »

Actually, that's how the system is supposed to work. The more pain and suffering you have, the more you should be compensated.

That said, there is an obligation on the injured party to do as much as possible to mitigate the effects of the injury. Getting medical treatment such as physio on an ongoing basis is what should be done. Getting specialist medical advice regarding the prognosis is essential too. If it's an injury that is likely to cause ongoing issues into the future, then this would be built into the claim. All medical expenses such as physio etc. (if they are receipted) can be included in the claim.

Legal advice isn't allowed so I won't give you legal advice but I will give you other advice.

Do something about your neck pain. Go get medical advice. Go to physio if this is what is advised. Get your neck sorted first and when you can do no more with your neck, then focus on your level of compensation.

I’ve done everything imaginable for the pain. I’ve attended countless physio, received dry needling, tried injections, I do yoga and specific stretches, I use heat packs at night to try and attlieviate it, anti inflammatory gels. I think this is something I’m going to have to live with. I’ve played sport and every injury I ever received went after a certain amount of time, this it seems, will not!

the14thwarrior

I feel sorry for you, lack of sleep is awful.
I'm sure you have heard this before, but the type of pillow can help. What type of pillow is entirely dependent on you and your pain (in the neck). After a few different types, i settled on a pillow (bought in the old Clerys department) costing €65 euro. a single, hard pillow, very firm. best money i ever spent.

i stayed away from memory foam (keeps you in a bad position and can be difficult to move out of when you do find a good position); foam or feathers didn't matter to me (but it was extremely difficult to find a hard feather pillow). i dropped to one pillow.

For the first year of my injury i slept with a single towel folded over, no pillow at all, but i stress that worked for me in terms of neck support.

the pillows with the different hollowed out levels? nightmare for me
the pillows with fibres and wheat etc.? nightmare for me.

I went on nightly medication for muscle relaxation - vallium worked for a while until my pain levels reduced.

and every ten minutes, body awareness to DROP YOUR SHOULDERS. Drop your shoulders driving, reading, writing, pull them down to ensure complete muscle relaxation in this area at all times.

ronin88

the14thwarrior wrote: »

I feel sorry for you, lack of sleep is awful.
I'm sure you have heard this before, but the type of pillow can help. What type of pillow is entirely dependent on you and your pain (in the neck). After a few different types, i settled on a pillow (bought in the old Clerys department) costing €65 euro. a single, hard pillow, very firm. best money i ever spent.

i stayed away from memory foam (keeps you in a bad position and can be difficult to move out of when you do find a good position); foam or feathers didn't matter to me (but it was extremely difficult to find a hard feather pillow). i dropped to one pillow.

For the first year of my injury i slept with a single towel folded over, no pillow at all, but i stress that worked for me in terms of neck support.

the pillows with the different hollowed out levels? nightmare for me
the pillows with fibres and wheat etc.? nightmare for me.

I went on nightly medication for muscle relaxation - vallium worked for a while until my pain levels reduced.

and every ten minutes, body awareness to DROP YOUR SHOULDERS. Drop your shoulders driving, reading, writing, pull them down to ensure complete muscle relaxation in this area at all times.

Thanks a million for all of that. It’s really appreciated.

How long roughly till your pain subsided?

The body awareness is something I haven’t heard before, I’ll try and be mindful of that!

I have tried all the different pillows, didn’t really make a difference. My problem seems to be when my neck gets stiff from lack of movement then it causes the pain when I move it again. So the pillow etc doesn’t really matter if I’m idle. It means I’ll never sit for more than 25-30 mins at night, I’ll get up, make tea and move my neck etc...this has helped with it and increased my chances of getting to sleep but when I wake during the night that’s when the problems start.

Mad_maxx

the14thwarrior wrote: »

a certain percentage of people are left with lasting pain from whiplash. Much like other injuries, once a part of the body is injured, it doesn't always make full recovery.
At the risk of getting slammed, but with the intent of making sense of it, you could divide the medical field in half - half think the nerves and pain are physical based, half feel there is a psychological component to whiplash, and strongly advocate once you've learned your exercises, and ruled out anything serious, cease being a patient and get off the medical roundabout.
once you've nothing to prove, you can get on with the matter of healing.

It doesn't make sense to you because you are the one in great pain.
Or you feel you deserve more.


You are so focused on getting a good payout, you run the risk of not letting go of your experience, thus perpetuating the pain cycle.

I know of five people in my circle alone that have whiplash, and none have gotten 20,000
Having treated many many patients over the years, 20,000 is not a figure i would have heard too often.

Some people ( including doctors) believe you can end pain by simply choosing not to think about the pain anymore, those people are either stupid or callous

The persistent pain is what ensures you keep thinking about it, pain is like that, you only cease thinking about it when it departs, you can't chose to ignore it and it will just up and leave, pain is in charge always

Mad_maxx

ronin88 wrote: »

You are possible right here and definitely something I hadn’t considered. Thank you.

In regards to being focused on getting a good payout, this isn’t necessarily true. I initially wanted to take the €13,000 payout as I saw it at the time as something easily covering my costs. My solicitor advised otherwise. Now I’m in a situation where I know the average settlement is way above what I was offered and I also know my symptoms are worse than average. So it just simply doesn’t add up to me, but again that comes back to your first point then.

13 k is peanuts for a life altering injury, 50 k is barely sufficient

ronin88

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Some people ( including doctors) believe you can end pain by simply choosing not to think about the pain anymore, those people are either stupid or callous

The persistent pain is what ensures you keep thinking about it, pain is like that, you only cease thinking about it when it departs, you can't chose to ignore it and it will just up and leave, pain is in charge always

I had no prior knowledge or experience really of this until now.

Up until this injury, if I hurt myself, twisted ankle, fall etc after a few days/maybe week or two it would heal and I wouldn’t think about it again.

I assumed initially this injury would be the same. I didn’t even contact a solicitor for a few months because I was certain it would heal and go away. So in my mind and subconscious I wasn’t thinking about this as being a long term thing so like your comment says, it’s not in the head because in my head this was temporary. Which it hasn’t been.

ronin88

Mad_maxx wrote: »

13 k is peanuts for a life altering injury, 50 k is barely sufficient

I’m not expecting €50k. What I want is to not have to think about the financial aspect of this or for it to be a massive burden on me financially in the future. I’ve given it 3 years, done everything I can, gone to the most recommended specialists, and there’s still no improvement. I simply can’t afford to continue the treatment I’ve been getting anymore, I’ve spent a huge chunk of my savings trying to fix it.

But I’m also aware that I can’t even put a figure on how much I’ll need going forward, I don’t know how long the symptoms will last or if they’ll get progressively worse. I suppose that’s what my fear is here, that not only will have this sleep issue for the rest of my life, but also all the financial strains that are attached to it.

I honestly never knew all this could be so life altering

Out of curioisity OP, how long did it take between you having the accident, and approaching a solicitor?

Also, how long did it take between having the accident, and being offered your payout?


In that time frame, did you find the injury worsened, improved or stayed the same? And when you were with your GP for the medical, did you ham it up, or play it down?

(My thinking is that if you mention that you're getting worse, between accident and offer of settlement, then it seems unfair for them to even make a settlement in those circumstances? Although I'm unsure if these things take days, weeks, months or years between the actual accident and by the time the insurance make an offer).

ronin88

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Out of curioisity OP, how long did it take between you having the accident, and approaching a solicitor?

Also, how long did it take between having the accident, and being offered your payout?


In that time frame, did you find the injury worsened, improved or stayed the same? And when you were with your GP for the medical, did you ham it up, or play it down?

(My thinking is that if you mention that you're getting worse, between accident and offer of settlement, then it seems unfair for them to even make a settlement in those circumstances? Although I'm unsure if these things take days, weeks, months or years between the actual accident and by the time the insurance make an offer).

It was about 5 months between the accident and me approaching a solicitor. I had lots of physiotherapy sessions in that time, my first being a few days after the accident.

I only approached a solicitor when it was clear that the injury wasn’t going away. I was very sure the symptoms would clear up eventually and to be honest even when I realised it wasn’t going away, I didn’t want to go to a solicitor about it because of the stigma attached with a whiplash claim.

I was offered the initial settlement around 9 months after the accident, then the piab’s suggestion was about 2 years after the accident.

The symptoms haven’t really changed to be honest. Some weeks are worse than others for no particular reason, other than luck it seems. I didn’t play it down or exaggerate it. But that’s the thing, I’m sure the fraudulent cases are exaggerated so when legitimate ones come before the piab they’re not sure where on the scale I am. I told him that although I could feel my injury during the day it didn’t really affect my life and I could live with it (the day part that is, although in all honesty I would definitely prefer if there wasn’t a pinch or strain when I turned my neck) but that at night it was problematic and stopped me from sleeping a lot.

Mad_maxx

ronin88 wrote: »

I had no prior knowledge or experience really of this until now.

Up until this injury, if I hurt myself, twisted ankle, fall etc after a few days/maybe week or two it would heal and I wouldn’t think about it again.

I assumed initially this injury would be the same. I didn’t even contact a solicitor for a few months because I was certain it would heal and go away. So in my mind and subconscious I wasn’t thinking about this as being a long term thing so like your comment says, it’s not in the head because in my head this was temporary. Which it hasn’t been.

Forgive me if my post gave the impression I was criticising you

Was making a general point that the pain is what prompts thought about pain, not the other way around

ronin88

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Forgive me if my post gave the impression I was criticising you

Was making a general point that the pain is what prompts thought about pain, not the other way around

No I didn’t get that impression at all. I was backing up your point regarding pain being a thing in your head.

I can also completely understand how or why people might be critical also. We all know there’s people out there milking the system so it’s hard to differentiate from the real cases and the fraudulent ones.

Mad_maxx

ronin88 wrote: »

No I didn’t get that impression at all. I was backing up your point regarding pain being a thing in your head.

I can also completely understand how or why people might be critical also. We all know there’s people out there milking the system so it’s hard to differentiate from the real cases and the fraudulent ones.

The examples of fraud you read about in the paper are almost always the blatant ones, these are the personal injury stories which interest the media

the14thwarrior

ronin88 wrote: »

Thanks a million for all of that. It’s really appreciated.

How long roughly till your pain subsided?

The body awareness is something I haven’t heard before, I’ll try and be mindful of that!

I have tried all the different pillows, didn’t really make a difference. My problem seems to be when my neck gets stiff from lack of movement then it causes the pain when I move it again. So the pillow etc doesn’t really matter if I’m idle. It means I’ll never sit for more than 25-30 mins at night, I’ll get up, make tea and move my neck etc...this has helped with it and increased my chances of getting to sleep but when I wake during the night that’s when the problems start.

don't worry about how long my pain lasted, everyone is different and everyone heals (or not) at a different rate. for me, like yourself after any number of therapies, the muscle relaxants at night and the constant body awareness is what really helped change how i hold myself, my neck, how i use my shoulders, engage in all activities from brushing my teeth to doing my stretches. To this day, and as I type this, i found my shoulders raised up slightly, which in turn is putting pressure on my neck muscles.

I admit I took Fielenkrais DVD but am very aware of how bodies move - from slightly holding my breath when I type, to tensing up when I brush my teeth, to rushing all my movements using all the wrong, teeny tiny muscles. of course i had to do this after one busted disc, followed by two car accidents and a fall down the stairs in consecutive years.

I can tell you when I got rear ended, there was no damage to my car, and I settled at 13,000 as FOR ME, I knew i had to stop the worrying because the last car accident did more damage to my neck than me falling down a flight of stairs.

And it was a young one on her phone I swear. And the first one was a rubber neck accident. both accidents I was stationary, and in fact, the police were at the side of the road beside my car when the person behind me was obviously looking at them and not at me and banged into me.

DROP YOUR SHOULDERS. DEEP BREATH IN. LOSE THE TENSION IN YOUR NECK AT ALL TIMES DOING ALL YOUR ACTIVITIES.

ronin88

Hi all,

Just a quick check in. So I have a court date coming up in a couple of weeks. I’ve never been in a court before so not sure what to expect.

The solicitors met and the defendants solicitor made a really ‘low offer’ and refused to negotiate so its arrived at this.

What happens re court? Does the local paper be there to report on all matters? I’m from a reasonably small town so would prefer if this was not broadcast everywhere but obviously that’s out of my control. Will there be others in the courtroom?

hullaballoo

It's unlikely but not impossible your case will be written about. The majority of cases before the courts do not get much or any publicity but clearly some do.

Unfortunately, there's not much science to it ime, it seems to be a bit of a lottery in terms of what the journos latch on to on any given day.