Accidental Landlord - tenant has over stayed

Lizzie71 · 23-09-2018 3:40pm

Nekarsulm wrote:

Professional landlords are very choosey who they rent to. Theyll ask for references and check them out carefully, ask for proof of funds, proof of employment etc. Generally they keep well away from RAS etc.

Nekarsulm wrote:

This isnt fool proof of course. ( one of the most disgusting rentals I ever had to deal with had been rented by a surgeon and his family)

I got all the references from employer and TD and from previous landlord did all the checking up thats and suppose it all went well as lo g as she was getting what she wanted.

ooter · 23-09-2018 4:10pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have had this difficulty in the past.

The Tenant is protected.

However, it is still your house. You can move another Tenant in unless the Lease gives her exclusive occupation.

Interesting angle.
I'm having some difficulty with my tenant lately, not paying rent on time.
7 years there, exclusively for the first few years but then I agreed to let another family member move in, rtb had no issue with it. I'm anticipating more problems in the coming months and can see me issuing 28 days notice, I've already issued 14 days notice but arrears were paid. I might go down this route if they refuse to leave.
Best of luck op, keep us posted on how you're getting on.

doolox · 23-09-2018 4:30pm

Why not stop paying the mortgage and let the banks handle the tenant?

Unless they can follow you for any outstanding amount owing after the sale of the house or you intend to borrow again in the future why wait around for an empty house to sell???

Is your own house mortgaged or linked to the house being let?

Do you intend to borrow money again?

It depends on what stage of life you are at and on the financial circumstances of your partner and on your housing status, are you renting or do you own your own principle residence??

A clean credit rating is only worth it if you intend to use it in the future.

If you have a mortgage on your own house the banks may follow up on that and make a grab for your own house in the event of not paying the mortgage on the rented house or there not being enough money left on the eventual sale of the rented house and the costs incurred in getting free and vacant access and title to the rented house.

As far as I know houses have to be vacant and have no tenants in order to be sold.

The nuclear option would be to declare bankruptcy and enter a an insolvency plan. If you do not have a spare €1,000 or so to bribe the tenant to leave then this could be a possibility.

Samuel T. Cogley · 23-09-2018 5:54pm

The reciver will just lump the fees on to the bill and the OP will be pursued for the debt.

Del2005 · 23-09-2018 6:01pm

doolox wrote: »

Why not stop paying the mortgage and let the banks handle the tenant?

Unless they can follow you for any outstanding amount owing after the sale of the house or you intend to borrow again in the future why wait around for an empty house to sell???

Is your own house mortgaged or linked to the house being let?

Do you intend to borrow money again?

It depends on what stage of life you are at and on the financial circumstances of your partner and on your housing status, are you renting or do you own your own principle residence??

A clean credit rating is only worth it if you intend to use it in the future.

If you have a mortgage on your own house the banks may follow up on that and make a grab for your own house in the event of not paying the mortgage on the rented house or there not being enough money left on the eventual sale of the rented house and the costs incurred in getting free and vacant access and title to the rented house.

As far as I know houses have to be vacant and have no tenants in order to be sold.

The nuclear option would be to declare bankruptcy and enter a an insolvency plan. If you do not have a spare €1,000 or so to bribe the tenant to leave then this could be a possibility.

The reason why we have such high mortgage rates is because the banks are more hamstringed than the OP when it comes to removing people none payment. Not paying the mortgage puts more pain on the suckers who do pay it.

Lizzie71 · 23-09-2018 7:16pm

Del2005 wrote:

The reason why we have such high mortgage rates is because the banks are more hamstringed than the OP when it comes to removing people none payment. Not paying the mortgage puts more pain on the suckers who do pay it.

I would never not pay my mortgage, if we can get her out soon we stand to make some money which i would like to invest in my home which hopefully is our forever home. But if she drags this out we will end up losing any profit on legal fees and she will get free legal aid its just all so unfair.

Samuel T. Cogley · 24-09-2018 5:55pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have had this difficulty in the past.

The Tenant is protected.

However, it is still your house. You can move another Tenant in unless the Lease gives her exclusive occupation.

12 (a) RTA 2004 gives them exclusive occupation, only just copped it myself.

Shame.

4ensic15 · 26-09-2018 7:51pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

12 (a) RTA 2004 gives them exclusive occupation, only just copped it myself.

Shame.

It depends on whether it is a room letting or a whole unit letting.

Lizzie71 · 07-11-2018 11:50am

well we have an adjudication with the rtb tomorrow, wonder will tenant even show up.

10pennymixup · 07-11-2018 3:01pm

Lizzie71 wrote: »

well we have an adjudication with the rtb tomorrow, wonder will tenant even show up.

Best of luck. Genuinely.

daithi7 · 07-11-2018 3:16pm

The above is the carrot and I would use that first and foremost.

The stick is that you know she is gaming the social welfare system by claiming to be a single parent when she is not. That is social e welfare fraud.

That is illegal and will cost her if someone reports it. I'll leave it to you to decide how to inform her of this.....

But if she doesn't take the carrot of the reference, I'd start using that stick...

I wouldn't offer her a penny....

P.s. With giving adequate notice you are legally entitled to inspect your property. Do this, and ensure to note who is actually residing in your property & who is on the lease.

In one way i'm sorry for the woman that she's resorting to outright thievery and fraud, but If her sort keep getting pandered to it ruins it for everyone.

Keep the spirits up Op, You're actually in the driver's seat here imho.

TheChizler · 07-11-2018 3:24pm

I haven't seen it anywhere else so just saying it now, have you given them the 14 day notice of arrears?

pc7 · 07-11-2018 4:08pm

Best of luck op, thanks for keeping us updated, very interesting to see how RTB process is working in real cases.

daheff · 07-11-2018 6:40pm

Lizzie71 wrote: »

I got all the references from employer and TD and from previous landlord did all the checking up thats and suppose it all went well as lo g as she was getting what she wanted.

go back to this TD and tell them whats going on and that you rented the property mainly based on the TD's reference. Let the TD earn their money dealing with this one.

I'd also let the TD know that you are in RTB and will be mentioning (for the public record) that this TD gave a reference for the tenant. I'd bet the issues and back rent will be resolved very very quickly.

BBFAN · 07-11-2018 10:58pm

Best of luck with the adjudication Lizzie, let us know how it goes.

4ensic15 · 08-11-2018 7:44am

ooter wrote: »

Interesting angle.
I'm having some difficulty with my tenant lately, not paying rent on time.
7 years there, exclusively for the first few years but then I agreed to let another family member move in, rtb had no issue with it. I'm anticipating more problems in the coming months and can see me issuing 28 days notice, I've already issued 14 days notice but arrears were paid. I might go down this route if they refuse to leave.
Best of luck op, keep us posted on how you're getting on.

You are coming up to the 8 years so you can use the Section 34b procedure.

Lizzie71 · 11-11-2018 9:16am

ok so she didnt turn up no surprise there, the adjudicator basically said we did everything right so the rtb will issue a letter giving her 10days to appeal and if she doesnt she has 14day after that to move. I think they will ignore so its off to court we go. we drove by the house on the way back from athlone as we needed to make sure they were still in the house.she was there and driving out of the estate he passed us in his big bmw, makes me sick.

BBFAN · 11-11-2018 4:00pm

Lizzie71 wrote: »

ok so she didnt turn up no surprise there, the adjudicator basically said we did everything right so the rtb will issue a letter giving her 10days to appeal and if she doesnt she has 14day after that to move. I think they will ignore so its off to court we go. we drove by the house on the way back from athlone as we needed to make sure they were still in the house.she was there and driving out of the estate he passed us in his big bmw, makes me sick.

That is maddening. It's so unfair what LL's have to go through to get rid of a tenant.

Lizzie71 · 14-11-2018 9:34am

I am actually stunned that we abide by the law and rules and others just do what they like and there is no protection for us ðŸ˜’

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 11:00am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

And I know of cases where that has happened.

An overholding tenant comes home to a large agressive topless man drinking beer with his naked feet on the coffee table eating pizza and blaring heavy metal and indicates he is her new housemate.

She moved out immediately.

Well yes, a woman was intimidated by a man to leave. It's not impressive, its illegal and immoral and downright dickish. In most instances your large aggressive topless man would be arrested for breaking and entering, and the landlord would be in a whole heap of ****.

realitykeeper · 15-11-2018 11:27am

Clúid may be able to advise you.

Zulu · 15-11-2018 11:37am

I wonder what the legalities/liabilities would be around the landlord erecting a sign in the front garden - something along the lines of "This property is currently under dispute at the RTB as rent remains unpaid, and the lease over-held."

Mod
Such a notice may be defamatory

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 11:59am

Tenant could and would remove it.

nikkibikki · 15-11-2018 12:03pm

Zulu wrote:

I wonder what the legalities/liabilities would be around the landlord erecting a sign in the front garden - something along the lines of "This property is currently under dispute at the RTB as rent remains unpaid, and the lease over-held."

Park an old car or a van or something outside it with huge signs saying that. Less chance of it getting removed.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 12:06pm

What would that achieve? Why would the tenant care? And are you going to tax and insure a car/van to sit their and advertise, otherwise it will be towed as abandoned and you can be prosecuted.

listermint · 15-11-2018 12:08pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

What would that achieve? Why would the tenant care? And are you going to tax and insure a car/van to sit their and advertise, otherwise it will be towed as abandoned and you can be prosecuted.

A car can't be moved if it's in an estate. So no and no your wrong.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 12:10pm

Unless its a fully private road, which is unlikely, it can and it will and you are wrong. If it is a private road, it can be removed by the owners of the road. Either way, you have it wrong.

listermint · 15-11-2018 12:12pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Unless its a fully private road, which is unlikely, it can and it will and you are wrong. If it is a private road, it can be removed by the owners of the road. Either way, you have it wrong.

I've yet to see a car moved from anywhere based on complaints I've personally made

So no. You won't get anyone to touch it.

godtabh · 15-11-2018 12:15pm

listermint wrote: »

I've yet to see a car moved from anywhere based on complaints I've personally made

So no. You won't get anyone to touch it.

Take the reg plate off and the LA has to remove it.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 12:16pm

Anecdotes are not data and your personal experience does not change the law.

If you like anecdotes I have personally seen two cars moved from my last estate, one by the council and one by the management company (was in a car park). The former took quite a while but they did eventually remove it.

It's a silly idea either way though.

listermint · 15-11-2018 12:17pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Anecdotes are not data and your personal experience does not change the law.

If you like anecdotes I have personally seen two cars moved from my last estate, one by the council and one by the management company (was in a car park). The former took quite a while but they did eventually remove it.

It's a silly idea either way though.

Yeah and how long did the cars sit there ?

I've seen a vehicle sit for 9 years untaxed and council doing nothing. Nothing whatsoever.

Other vehicles sat for over a year

So ....

I think the point was that shame the tenant. Because it's clear they are shameless.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 12:21pm

Not that long.

How do you shame someone who is shameless? You contradict yourself.

Zulu · 15-11-2018 1:11pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Not that long.

How do you shame someone who is shameless? You contradict yourself.

I could be mistaken here, but you seem to be presuming that someone who does something shameful is shameless. This of course isn't necessarily true. Apologies if I've mistaken you.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 1:23pm

Shameless means having no shame. That is literally the point, they do something you consider to be shameful, yet they do not feel any shame for it. They are shame less. It's self explanatory. Hence if they are shameless, they are not going to made to feel shameful by you saying anything about it.

15-11-2018 1:30pm

No idea if this is possible/legal/previously discussed, but in situations such as this, could the landlord contact all the utility suppliers, and get everything turned off in the house?
I can't imagine anyone would stay too long with heating/lights/broadband/television

Probably a very daft idea, but there must be someway to deal with tenants who refuse to leave

listermint · 15-11-2018 1:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No idea if this is possible/legal/previously discussed, but in situations such as this, could the landlord contact all the utility suppliers, and get everything turned off in the house?
I can't imagine anyone would stay too long with heating/lights/broadband/television

Probably a very daft idea, but there must be someway to deal with tenants who refuse to leave

Unfortunately no.

Zulu · 15-11-2018 1:33pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Shameless means having no shame. That is literally the point, they do something you consider to be shameful, yet they do not feel any shame for it. They are shame less. It's self explanatory. Hence if they are shameless, they are not going to made to feel shameful by you saying anything about it.

Congratulations, you've entirely missed the point! Will we bother trying it again? What do you think, is it worth it??

Doing something shameful does not mean a person is shameless.

So a person could do something shameful, and feel shame.

Mind. Blown.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 1:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No idea if this is possible/legal/previously discussed, but in situations such as this, could the landlord contact all the utility suppliers, and get everything turned off in the house?
I can't imagine anyone would stay too long with heating/lights/broadband/television

Probably a very daft idea, but there must be someway to deal with tenants who refuse to leave

No, all those utilities will be in the tenants name and they won't even speak to the landlord about the accounts. Even if for some reason they were in the landlords name, switching off essential services would be classed as illegal eviction and harassment.

No, its not fair on landlords that it can come to this. But bear in mind its a very tiny number of tenants that overhold like this, and even of those that do its usually because they literally have nowhere else to go. I imagine the landlords themselves would overhold if they were faced with that or homelessness for their children.

stinkbomb · 15-11-2018 1:37pm

Zulu wrote: »

Congratulations, you've entirely missed the point! Will we bother trying it again? What do you think, is it worth it??

Doing something shameful does not mean a person is shameless.

So a person could do something shameful, and feel shame.

Mind. Blown.

No, you misunderstood. I said someone who is shameless has no shame, not that anyone who does something shameful is shameless. Thats actually the opposite of what I said.
Unblow that mind and re-read. Ask for help if still struggling

10pennymixup · 15-11-2018 2:16pm

I genuinely would like to hear how the OP progresses. I really hope that this thread isn't closed just because some posters derailed it over semantics.

It would be a crying shame. and those responsible absolutely shameless.:rolleyes:

Squatter · 15-11-2018 2:16pm

BBFAN wrote: »

That is maddening. It's so unfair what LL's have to go through to get rid of a tenant.

It is. And yet countless morons both in these fora and in Dáil Eireann persist in calling Fine Gael "the Landlord's Party". Go figure.

davindub · 15-11-2018 2:38pm

Squatter wrote: »

BBFAN wrote: »

That is maddening. It's so unfair what LL's have to go through to get rid of a tenant.

It is. And yet countless morons both in these fora and in Dáil Eireann persist in calling Fine Gael "the Landlord's Party". Go figure.

Suppose they feel when you consider the entire regulatory environment they see landlords as benefitting from restricting residential builidng? You know value increases and the like?

Graham · 15-11-2018 3:53pm

davindub wrote: »

Suppose they feel when you consider the entire regulatory environment they see landlords as benefitting from restricting residential builidng? You know value increases and the like?

That would be a much stronger argument if 'value increases' hadn't essentially been halted by RPZ legislation and mortgage lending restrictions.

Unsurprisingly, the 'promise' that a landlords investment will be rewarded by notional capital appreciation isn't particularly enticing.

beauf · 15-11-2018 4:04pm

Squatter wrote: »

It is. And yet countless morons both in these fora and in Dáil Eireann persist in calling Fine Gael "the Landlord's Party". Go figure.

Should really be "pro large institutional landlords"

They seem to be anti the landlord with one or two properties.

davindub · 15-11-2018 7:39pm

Graham wrote: »

That would be a much stronger argument if 'value increases' hadn't essentially been halted by RPZ legislation and mortgage lending restrictions.

Unsurprisingly, the 'promise' that a landlords investment will be rewarded by notional capital appreciation isn't particularly enticing.

House prices haven't halted (but are slowing) and neither have rent increases. Those notional increases are only taxed at 33%, so arguably they are better for the investor and typically were the rational reason to invest in property.

BTW, I am sorry for your situation OP and I hope you get them out quickly.

Lizzie71 · 20-11-2018 10:31pm

let me just make this clear this woman is married has a husband who earns good money as a professional /Mod deletion/ so no its not a case of she has nowhere to go.they probably have more disposable cash then me and my wife have.we have never made any money on her rent because we though being renter yourselves for it while it is tough.we were just in a position to get this monkey off our back and now any chance we have of making any profit are low.So i am looking for constructive information not people arguing over silly wording. She is not a poor young girla lone with kids they are leaches both her and her husband. Sorry if this offends anyone but im offended at the lack of rights we have.rant over.

Mod
Pls do not post identifying info

duskyjoe · 22-11-2018 12:53pm

same position here- tenant overstaying and refusing to pay rent. Have to sell as I can’t afford mortgage . Going through RTB process and will go to district court to get eviction. Do i feel sorry for tenant ? no, they have been abusive of their position like the OP tenant. We wonder why we have a housing crisis? Fact is a serious portion of soc welfare tenants / Hap abuse the system who feel entitled to free housing / handouts etc This leaves landlords cold and refusing to let to this group which is leaving 1000s of honest people unable to rent and swades of units empty. The amount of empty units in Dublin city is pure stunning as owners / landlords who can afford to own their units without rental will only expand in numbers as the hassle factor far outweighs renting.Madness but people are ignoring these contributing factors that are leading to a massive housing crisis. Minister Murphy is clutching at straws trying to resolve this issue.

garhjw · 22-11-2018 8:52pm

duskyjoe wrote: »

same position here- tenant overstaying and refusing to pay rent. Have to sell as I can’t afford mortgage . Going through RTB process and will go to district court to get eviction. Do i feel sorry for tenant ? no, they have been abusive of their position like the OP tenant. We wonder why we have a housing crisis? Fact is a serious portion of soc welfare tenants / Hap abuse the system who feel entitled to free housing / handouts etc This leaves landlords cold and refusing to let to this group which is leaving 1000s of honest people unable to rent and swades of units empty. The amount of empty units in Dublin city is pure stunning as owners / landlords who can afford to own their units without rental will only expand in numbers as the hassle factor far outweighs renting.Madness but people are ignoring these contributing factors that are leading to a massive housing crisis. Minister Murphy is clutching at straws trying to resolve this issue.

Totally agree. I’m going through RTB process at present with a number of tenants and they are just playing the system. Some might think it a harsh thing to say but some people deserve to be homeless.

JustMe,K · 23-11-2018 11:54am

garhjw wrote: »

Totally agree. I’m going through RTB process at present with a number of tenants and they are just playing the system. Some might think it a harsh thing to say but some people deserve to be homeless.

All of these people seem to be getting advised by Threshold etc to overhold. I fully blame the councils & HAP for the majority of this issue, as they have pushed what should be their own tenants into the private rental market, and they are the ones with the 'home for life' view.

Lizzie71 · 14-12-2018 11:57am

She made no appeal so she is just ignoring correspondence so RTB will send her a termination letter which dives her 14 or 15 days to move out then its the court system.

Accidental Landlord - tenant has over stayed

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