Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Farm science.

124678

Comments

  • #152
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Who spreads what by sector

    How could Teagasc come up with those figures when they’ve no idea how much fert is imported into Ireland?


  • #153
    ganmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    How could Teagasc come up with those figures when they’ve no idea how much fert is imported into Ireland?

    probably just data from their own clients


  • #154
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    How could Teagasc come up with those figures when they’ve no idea how much fert is imported into Ireland?
    Would you think that there's much more than what they say?


  • #155
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Well, here's a turn up for the books. It may turn out that the methane increase in the atmosphere comes from sources other than ruminants according to NASA. Fires and fossil fuels look to be responsible.

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/nasa-led-study-solves-a-methane-puzzle


  • #156
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Very good article. Great you spotted it. It's an area that needs more research. We need to invest in it, or the wrong clients may end up, paying the GHG emissions.


  • Advertisement
  • #157
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    I'm including a link to the Times here which you might not be able to access but Dr. Michael Mosley has an article about cows milk being an excellent source of iodine.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/so-long-soya-why-you-need-cows-milk-0ls0dclgm

    He will be talking about this on BBC2 tomorrow night at 8.30pm in 'Trust me, I'm a doctor' as well.


  • #158
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Here's an interesting one, using fungi to repair cracks in concrete. Early stages yet but interesting direction.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fungi-can-help-concrete-heal-its-own-cracks/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sa-editorial-social&utm_content&utm_term=chemistry_partner_&sf180469539=1


  • #159
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    http://www.picquery.com/atlantic-oscillation_d1TsqbjnD93ML8xlGUhZFuSyOWV6KEeKkLt3vrjkuMQ/
    Today we learned the expected weather for the summer is controlled directly by the Atlantic sea surface tempature.


  • #160
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Capturing nitrous oxide emissions and utilizing more nutrients from outdoor slurry lagoons.

    http://www.beefmagazine.com/equipment/research-suggests-biochar-could-be-game-changer-manure-storage


  • #161
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Not really farm science per say but I don't know where else to put it.
    Yara are using the first ever autonomously docking ship to move fertilizer




  • Advertisement
  • #162
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    A study about reducing Nitric Oxide emissions from farmland.
    Biochar was shown to reduce NO emissions from farmland to 0% in some cases depending on char used, soil type.
    This is important as it would reduce the amount of artificial nitrogen needed to be spread on farmland. So cost saving.
    A human benefit is a reduction in nitric oxide being the catalyst for smog formation.

    https://www.foodandfarmingfutures.co.uk/PrestoMobile#/details/ZWVhNzBlY2QtZWJjNi00YWZiLWE1MTAtNWExOTFiMjJjOWU1LjE0MDk2


  • #163
    ganmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Isn’t biochar just charcoal?


  • #164
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    ganmo wrote: »
    Isn’t biochar just charcoal?

    The word biochar gets thrown around way too loosely.
    It can mean charcoal depending on who's using the word. But with all the different biomass/feedstocks that are used its better and should just be called char.
    Charcoal should really just be used for char made from oak trees or other trees that by it's name was a replacement/predecessor for coal in the smelting process or even for your bbq.

    Biochar should really just be used to describe char that has
    A) been through an animal's digestive system and picked up all the bacteria and nutrients.
    B) Been mixed with dung in a compost heap and picked up all the bacteria and nutrients.
    C) Been inoculated with bacteria and/or fungi.
    D) Been in one of those kon tiki retorts and the farmer has added nutrients and bacteria through the water to quench the retort and added that way.

    But in the above study I'd say it was more than likely plain char was used but from different feedstocks.
    Char from livestock manure still excites people and it would be the best for land if it wasn't going to be innoculated like I described above.

    Bord na Mona looks like they want to get into the action in this country which to me sounds bonkers as peat is already a stable carbon and should be left where it is. But perhaps more than likely they're combining it with power generation. So..
    The best source imo is farmer own grown trees on their own land and in 2nd would be trees from other sources here private plantations, Coillte, etc.
    But trees make the best biochar from I've read and hardwood would be the king I think with the smaller gaps in the char.

    But it's only in the last few years it's gaining traction and being used mostly as an extra from biomass power generation.
    But the bord na Mona development or potential development. I wouldn't be a fan of.

    I'll add this in here as it explains a bit more of what I've been harping on about.
    It's a multi country, multi disciplinary recent research on biochar and just a snapshot into what happens when it's mixed with (as they used) compost.
    https://nationalmaglab.org/fieldsmagazine/archives/esprit-de-char


  • #165
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I'll stick this in here as there's an element of science in this.

    "A Post Paris Literature Review of Negative Emissions Technology and Potential for Ireland"

    Every farmer in the country should read this and be informed.
    It mentions forestry, soil carbon sequestration and biochar and potential payments to incentivise farmers to help meet Ireland's carbon targets.
    It's only a short read of over 300 pages but will/should impact agriculture in Ireland from now till eternity.

    The link is in the Twitter post.
    AgriChar (@AgriChar_RG) Tweeted:
    Glad to see #Biochar part of the solutions being analyzed for #Carbon #sequestration for #Ireland. Hopefully will soon get to the #IPCC #6thAR #Negative #emissions #ClimateAction #climatechange https://t.co/xghomjwr0Y https://t.co/kDV7bhMMYJ https://twitter.com/AgriChar_RG/status/963354054960254976?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E2


  • #166
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    This study shows nitrogen use efficiency is around 23% with another study quoted in it on more intensive farms coming out at 19% (2 cow/ha versus 2.4). Compared to around 40% for systems more reliant on maize in france.
    So for every 1 kg of nitrogen applied, only 230g of that are ending up in product, and 150-170g of that is in milk.


  • #167
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    This study shows nitrogen use efficiency is around 23% with another study quoted in it on more intensive farms coming out at 19% (2 cow/ha versus 2.4). Compared to around 40% for systems more reliant on maize in france.
    So for every 1 kg of nitrogen applied, only 230g of that are ending up in product, and 150-170g of that is in milk.

    Where does the unused N go?

    What about 3cows+/ha and under derogation?

    Edit.
    Now I understand your comment that J. Humphreys should know better...indeed he should if it’s the same man that put his name to this paper.

    Jesus wept.


  • #168
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    Where does the unused N go?

    What about 3cows+/ha and under derogation?

    Edit.
    Now I understand your comment that J. Humphreys should know better...indeed he should if it’s the same man that put his name to this paper.

    Jesus wept.
    Who knows where all the extra goes, can't be directly traced to surface water so who cares?
    Intensive grass will always be a disaster from an n use efficiency point of view, it's just not possible for a cow to process all that nitrogen...


  • #169
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Who knows where all the extra goes, can't be directly traced to surface water so who cares?
    Intensive grass will always be a disaster from an n use efficiency point of view, it's just not possible for a cow to process all that nitrogen...

    Was speaking to a fellow expat lately from the north, and in good grass country...problem with grass is it needs so much N, he mused...

    I’ll do some research from this side. The frogs would WANT to find the excess N...as distinct from the out of sight, out of mind school of science...


  • #170
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The only one's concerned about improving utilisation of nitrogen on grassland on here are the one's who don't use it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Two words that every farmer should know in the future (or actually now) Albrecht and biochar.


  • #171
    charolais0153
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Say my name wrote: »
    The only one's concerned about improving utilisation of nitrogen on grassland on here are the one's who don't use it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Two words that every farmer should know in the future (or actually now) Albrecht and biochar.
    Albrecht as in the aldi crowd? Or is it soil test system


  • Advertisement
  • #172
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Mod note: Folks, we'll leave it there, please, and move quickly along, OK?

    Thanks in advance,

    Buford T. Justice


  • #173
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=442473&d=1519300877


    Reposted so as the research could be discussed.


  • #174
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/bix164/4831124


  • #175
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/bix164/4831124

    "The only practice that will consistently decrease N losses at all locations, by all pathways and for all forms of N, is reduction in N input rates"

    It's so simple it couldn't possibly be the way to go! Much better for our scientists to be playing around with urease inhibitors and other fairy dust to make try and make the current system less bad instead of good.


  • #176
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Say my name wrote: »
    The only one's concerned about improving utilisation of nitrogen on grassland on here are the one's who don't use it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Two words that every farmer should know in the future (or actually now) Albrecht and biochar.
    I think a respect for ecology and how it relates to productiveness will be more important, across soils, disease management and grass management. Yield mightn't be as high as it could possibly be but greater stability in the long-term...


    Edit, used to Hassel the aul lad here to get fert out, luckily I was never tied to believing in the experts so much that everything couldn't be questioned.


  • #177
    einn32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭einn32


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    I think a respect for ecology and how it relates to productiveness will be more important, across soils, disease management and grass management. Yield mightn't be as high as it could possibly be but greater stability in the long-term...


    Edit, used to Hassel the aul lad here to get fert out, luckily I was never tied to believing in the experts so much that everything couldn't be questioned.

    Simple farming will eventually come as modern farming is doomed to fail. Too much reliance on oil. We already see issues with disease control. All this pressure for growth and production seems to ignore the environmental impact. Anyway the end result is more food produced for very little return.

    Reseeding of grassland is a complete disaster too for ecosystems.


  • #178
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Quoting a tweet linking to an article on Carbon sequestration and beef finishing.

    https://twitter.com/TamarHaspel/status/967529334444515328?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1


  • #179
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    I think a respect for ecology and how it relates to productiveness will be more important, across soils, disease management and grass management. Yield mightn't be as high as it could possibly be but greater stability in the long-term...


    Edit, used to Hassel the aul lad here to get fert out, luckily I was never tied to believing in the experts so much that everything couldn't be questioned.

    There's a hell of a lot that people need to learn about growing grass and what the grass actually needs to grow.

    You'll know from reading my posts that I largely paddle my own canoe when it comes to growing grass and I'll take any information I can and try it out for myself.
    Life's too short not to is my motto.

    I alluded to Albrecht before and I'm beginning to firmly believe he had the soil science and ratios for the different elements worked out for grass.
    Then I take a little bit from Elaine Ingham too when she mentions that a plant needs every available element in small portions to grow properly. It's kind of how I went down the road I'm going.

    I got soil samples done across the whole farm lately using the Albrecht testing system and you can see the difference in fields where the ratios are off.

    This day of depending on something wholey out of a bag is gradually changing for me. It might take me a lifetime to perfect and have the perfect soil but I'll enjoy the journey.

    Just a little on what I've done and the results. All the land came back low in Boron on the Albrecht soil test for grass.
    The fields that are lowest for boron have the worst and most burnt grass atm. There's one especially so that's high in calcium and low in Boron.
    Now I've spread dolerite dust on all the land now but the best so far is the reseed that got 3t tilled into it. Dolerite would contain all the elements on earth including all the heavy metals. Now Ingham would tell you that soil needs these as well in small proportions for a healthy soil and healthy plant. Most people would gawp if you told them that but yet have no fear of eating a fish which is full of every available element from it's environment including the heavy metals.
    Now a guess from me would be that dolerite could be harmful if your soil is high already in Boron but if it's low then I see no harm.
    Back to the reseed I'm grazing it away atm and it's as green as anything with no sign of burning. I believe the dolerite has been an awful help to the grass. I did spread slurry on it just on the opening date as well but from looking at neighbours reseeds who spread at the same time. Their's have gone back and mine haven't.
    I'm going to reseed more land this year and plan on spreading 5t/ac and tilling in based on the soil sample results for that field.
    I believe I have hit on something that suits my soil. The soil here would I'd classify as a hungry soil, high in potash low in phosphorus low in Boron high in magnesium usually low in calcium but depends on your liming applications and if near marl low in sulphur.

    A perfect soil for grass I'd classify that must be near perfect and naturally formed is soil near galbally and soil south of adamstown co.wexford. This is soil formed from volcanic intrusions to the surface. This belt actually runs and pops up from Waterford to north Wexford. This soil in theory should be full of every available element like I mentioned. I can guarrantee you though that it's a miracle to look at this land now where other grass on land is burning back and theirs stays green for longer.
    There's a lot more I believe to soil than fertiliser yosemitesam.
    Anyway ramble over.:p


  • #180
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Quoting a tweet linking to an article on Carbon sequestration and beef finishing.

    https://twitter.com/TamarHaspel/status/967529334444515328?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1



    A very good paper on the benefits of the paddock or rotational system of grazing over the “let ‘em wander system”.

    However the paper falls short in an Irish intensive grazing system because the research was on organic grassland that had not received any fertilizer or pesticides (inc herbicides I’m assuming) for greater than seven years, and for the duration of the study. The sward was predominantly alfalfa (lucerne) with a mix of cold season grasses...

    The feedlot results assumed soil erosion/ degradation and the use of organic manure and artificial fertilizer...


    Firing out a hospital pass to modern technology won’t, imho, fix our current issues with environmental pollution. Modern technology is outstanding in fairness but asking it to cure the ills of an ailing planet is asking too much...
    Seawater and other magic potions are only deflecting the discussion.


  • Advertisement
  • #181
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    I'm off cow's milk, butter, cheese etc.. Can anybody tell me if there is goat's butter and where it can be got? Thanks.


  • #182
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    A very good paper on the benefits of the paddock or rotational system of grazing over the “let ‘em wander system”.

    However the paper falls short in an Irish intensive grazing system because the research was on organic grassland that had not received any fertilizer or pesticides (inc herbicides I’m assuming) for greater than seven years, and for the duration of the study. The sward was predominantly alfalfa (lucerne) with a mix of cold season grasses...

    The feedlot results assumed soil erosion/ degradation and the use of organic manure and artificial fertilizer...


    Firing out a hospital pass to modern technology won’t, imho, fix our current issues with environmental pollution. Modern technology is outstanding in fairness but asking it to cure the ills of an ailing planet is asking too much...
    Seawater and other magic potions are only deflecting the discussion.

    Look up Richard Teague grazing down the carbon, I think we can take that rewarding productivity without driving the system through artificial inputs is a good thing. But they'll always be able to show better results as they've ha to the cow versus cows/ha to spread emissions over.
    Another plus of that is that biodiversity will be increased as a byproduct.


  • #183
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Say my name wrote: »
    There's a hell of a lot that people need to learn about growing grass and what the grass actually needs to grow.

    You'll know from reading my posts that I largely paddle my own canoe when it comes to growing grass and I'll take any information I can and try it out for myself.
    Life's too short not to is my motto.

    I alluded to Albrecht before and I'm beginning to firmly believe he had the soil science and ratios for the different elements worked out for grass.
    Then I take a little bit from Elaine Ingham too when she mentions that a plant needs every available element in small portions to grow properly. It's kind of how I went down the road I'm going.

    I got soil samples done across the whole farm lately using the Albrecht testing system and you can see the difference in fields where the ratios are off.

    This day of depending on something wholey out of a bag is gradually changing for me. It might take me a lifetime to perfect and have the perfect soil but I'll enjoy the journey.

    Just a little on what I've done and the results. All the land came back low in Boron on the Albrecht soil test for grass.
    The fields that are lowest for boron have the worst and most burnt grass atm. There's one especially so that's high in calcium and low in Boron.
    Now I've spread dolerite dust on all the land now but the best so far is the reseed that got 3t tilled into it. Dolerite would contain all the elements on earth including all the heavy metals. Now Ingham would tell you that soil needs these as well in small proportions for a healthy soil and healthy plant. Most people would gawp if you told them that but yet have no fear of eating a fish which is full of every available element from it's environment including the heavy metals.
    Now a guess from me would be that dolerite could be harmful if your soil is high already in Boron but if it's low then I see no harm.
    Back to the reseed I'm grazing it away atm and it's as green as anything with no sign of burning. I believe the dolerite has been an awful help to the grass. I did spread slurry on it just on the opening date as well but from looking at neighbours reseeds who spread at the same time. Their's have gone back and mine haven't.
    I'm going to reseed more land this year and plan on spreading 5t/ac and tilling in based on the soil sample results for that field.
    I believe I have hit on something that suits my soil. The soil here would I'd classify as a hungry soil, high in potash low in phosphorus low in Boron high in magnesium usually low in calcium but depends on your liming applications and if near marl low in sulphur.

    A perfect soil for grass I'd classify that must be near perfect and naturally formed is soil near galbally and soil south of adamstown co.wexford. This is soil formed from volcanic intrusions to the surface. This belt actually runs and pops up from Waterford to north Wexford. This soil in theory should be full of every available element like I mentioned. I can guarrantee you though that it's a miracle to look at this land now where other grass on land is burning back and theirs stays green for longer.
    There's a lot more I believe to soil than fertiliser yosemitesam.
    Anyway ramble over.:p

    I don't know about much of that but would be wary of following any exact targets. As long as anything isn't way off, try and get soil biology to balance it off, as it knows better than we do what it needs would be my thinking.


  • #184
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    I don't know about much of that but would be wary of following any exact targets. As long as anything isn't way off, try and get soil biology to balance it off, as it knows better than we do what it needs would be my thinking.

    If the elements are not there in the first place no amount of biology will introduce or produce those elements out of thin air.
    I've come from a base of having land in my youth that was near enough organic with poor animals and poor crops to what I'm currently trying to work towards. The stock are now getting mineral supplements and thriving and the hope is that by trying this out that the land is getting mineral supplements too and hopefully in the near future the stock will be getting adequate minerals through the grass.

    I'd have a poor view of some organic growers. There's a landowner near me from mainland Europe and he's a committed organic grower but year on year since he bought the land it's all gone backwards. He doesn't soil test. Spreads no lime. Sets the ground but won't allow a stake to be drove in case it kills a worm. It's just terrible looking at the land now. All white grass with no feeding and poor stock on it now. According to him this ground is full of life but I'd know well enough there's 10 times more life and diversity in my soil with all the different bacteria. Now that's a poor example of an organic farmer/landowner. He might have got a get out of jail free card if he had better soil than what's in this area but atm it's not working out for him.


  • #185
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    feargale wrote: »
    I'm off cow's milk, butter, cheese etc.. Can anybody tell me if there is goat's butter and where it can be got? Thanks.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057020595&page=84

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #186
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    feargale wrote: »
    I'm off cow's milk, butter, cheese etc.. Can anybody tell me if there is goat's butter and where it can be got? Thanks.
    Never heard of goats butter on sale here but Supervalu have a good selection of niche products from sheep and goats so maybe they might have something there?


  • Advertisement
  • #187
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Say my name wrote: »
    If the elements are not there in the first place no amount of biology will introduce or produce those elements out of thin air.
    I've come from a base of having land in my youth that was near enough organic with poor animals and poor crops to what I'm currently trying to work towards. The stock are now getting mineral supplements and thriving and the hope is that by trying this out that the land is getting mineral supplements too and hopefully in the near future the stock will be getting adequate minerals through the grass.

    I'd have a poor view of some organic growers. There's a landowner near me from mainland Europe and he's a committed organic grower but year on year since he bought the land it's all gone backwards. He doesn't soil test. Spreads no lime. Sets the ground but won't allow a stake to be drove in case it kills a worm. It's just terrible looking at the land now. All white grass with no feeding and poor stock on it now. According to him this ground is full of life but I'd know well enough there's 10 times more life and diversity in my soil with all the different bacteria. Now that's a poor example of an organic farmer/landowner. He might have got a get out of jail free card if he had better soil than what's in this area but atm it's not working out for him.

    Whether the land is managed organically or not isn't the point, it's whether or not the management allows that the system can move toward be someway self reliant (or close to) and not on high levels of artificial inputs.


  • #188
    Upstream
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 288 ✭✭Upstream


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Whether the land is managed organically or not isn't the point, it's whether or not the management allows that the system can move toward be someway self reliant (or close to) and not on high levels of artificial inputs.

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057821585/
    This presentation by Gabe Brown covers the same points. Well worth a look. Bad organic farming is not much better than conventional farming. Good organic/semi organic farming in nature's image and putting soil health first is the way to go.


  • #189
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Would I be right in thinking that all the snow that originated over Russia, Poland etc. would have a lot more Sulphur in it than our normal rain from the Atlantic?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #190
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Would I be right in thinking that all the snow that originated over Russia, Poland etc. would have a lot more Sulphur in it than our normal rain from the Atlantic?

    I think that snow originated initially from streamers coming in off the Irish Sea and Emma came from Biscay over south west England.


  • #191
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Article from nature.com detailing the benefits of spreading basalt dust on agricultural land. It lists the various types of rock that are of most interest. The carbon capture and increased crop growth is a bonus.
    I spread mine just to see would the added nutrients make a difference to grass growth and milk composition.
    But the added benefits are certainly welcome. Just have to see what happens this year for me when the weather picks up.

    Article here.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41477-018-0108-y

    Edit: actually that'll cost ye.
    Here's a round about way to get access.

    Cliff Crego (@cliffcrego) Tweeted:
    READ: UPDATE on Dr James Hansen’s et al interesting new article, “Farming with crops and rocks to address global climate, food and soil security”

    “Rock Dust in Farming Redux” pdf https://t.co/CFk9h8Y0H2

    #climatecrisis #biochar #notill #ag #organic #ethics #keepitintheground


  • Advertisement
  • #192
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Say my name wrote: »
    Article from nature.com detailing the benefits of spreading basalt dust on agricultural land. It lists the various types of rock that are of most interest. The carbon capture and increased crop growth is a bonus.
    I spread mine just to see would the added nutrients make a difference to grass growth and milk composition.
    But the added benefits are certainly welcome. Just have to see what happens this year for me when the weather picks up.

    Article here.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41477-018-0108-y

    Edit: actually that'll cost ye.
    Here's a round about way to get access.

    Cliff Crego (@cliffcrego) Tweeted:
    READ: UPDATE on Dr James Hansen’s et al interesting new article, “Farming with crops and rocks to address global climate, food and soil security”

    “Rock Dust in Farming Redux” pdf https://t.co/CFk9h8Y0H2

    #climatecrisis #biochar #notill #ag #organic #ethics #keepitintheground https://twitter.com/cliffcrego/status/966380353496723456?s=17

    Sci-hub.tw ;-)


  • #193
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Sci-hub.tw ;-)

    Thanks. :p

    Forgot about that one. :D


  • #194
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    https://newfoodeconomy.org/farmers-food-companies-regenerative-organic-certification/


  • #195
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Hi,
    Could any of you give me a few easy agricultural questions for a pub quiz? The competitors are mostly townies who couldn't distinguish between a goat and a sheep. 5 or 6 would be great. Thanks.


  • #196
    Mtx
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Mtx


    How do you make money from sucklers? (That'll test them!)
    Seriously,
    How many acres are in a hectare?
    What is a stirk?


  • #197
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    feargale wrote: »
    Hi,
    Could any of you give me a few easy agricultural questions for a pub quiz? The competitors are mostly townies who couldn't distinguish between a goat and a sheep. 5 or 6 would be great. Thanks.

    Who's the minister for agriculture?
    In what county is the National Ploughing Association headquarters located?


  • #198
    Genghis Cant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭Genghis Cant


    Q.
    Which chicken breed shares it name with a brand of vacuum cleaner?

    A.Vorwerk


  • #199
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Here's an interesting comparison of Glyphosate and Copper Sulphate. Looks like Roundup may be a safer product to use...

    https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/03/20/far-more-toxic-than-glyphosate-copper-sulfate-used-by-organic-and-conventional-farmers-cruises-to-european-reauthorization/


  • #200
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Saw an interesting Tweet earlier this week re offsetting Ireland's dairy expansion via hedgerows and wild flowers; as in, how many metres of hedge would you need to plant to balance out the impact of a dairy cow?

    I'm guessing we're talking about carbon sequestration here. And the question is how much hedgerow do you need to sequester the emissions generated by a cow.

    Anyone have any figures or look at this previously?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • #201
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Siamsa Sessions wrote: »
    Saw an interesting Tweet earlier this week re offsetting Ireland's dairy expansion via hedgerows and wild flowers; as in, how many metres of hedge would you need to plant to balance out the impact of a dairy cow?

    I'm guessing we're talking about carbon sequestration here. And the question is how much hedgerow do you need to sequester the emissions generated by a cow.

    Anyone have any figures or look at this previously?

    You'd need a lot!
    Excluding soil emissions it's roughly a kilo of co2/l milk. A cubic metre of timber has about .7-1t of co2 equivalent depending if it's hard or soft wood.
    There's roughly a 45-30-25% split between methane, nitrous oxide and co2 under the current weightings.
    There would be about 100-150 t/ha more of co2 stored in less intensively managed grassland than intensive due to healthier soil, but even if that was acknowledged we should be using different weightings to the current ones. Methane is rated at 28 times that of carbon dioxide when it's effect on temperatures is only between 0.25-4 times that of carbon.
    If that was changed a more sustainable system would be unquestionable but the current system puts such a weighting on methane (which takes the pressure off big business and developed countries) that the easiest approach taken by the likes of teagasc is to intensify further and not acknowledge the negatives of the system as they are merely carrying out a box ticking excercise.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement