Farm science.

White Clover

Would anyone care to advise on varieties to establish a herbal ley in a new reseed. Heavy land in a high rainfall area. Low stocking rate.
Thanks in advance.

Birdnuts

White Clover wrote: »

Would anyone care to advise on varieties to establish a herbal ley in a new reseed. Heavy land in a high rainfall area. Low stocking rate.
Thanks in advance.

You'd be looking at herb species like chicory, red clover and birdfoot trefoil. In terms of grass species for that mix, the likes of meadow foxtail and timothy would be best.

yosemitesam1

White Clover wrote: »

Would anyone care to advise on varieties to establish a herbal ley in a new reseed. Heavy land in a high rainfall area. Low stocking rate.
Thanks in advance.

https://archive.org/details/cliftonparksyste00elli

Have a look at that, not everything is 100% but a lot of very good info in it.
Cocksfoot, timothy and meadow fescue with a small bit of ryegrass.
Chicory, plantain, red/white/alsike clover, birds foot trefoil and maybe a bit of yarrow

Buford T. Justice XIX

https://www.thegwpf.com/scientific-establishment-rocked-by-new-science-scandal/

That's a bit disturbing.

yosemitesam1

https://onpasture.com/2017/11/27/plants-are-better-than-subsoilers-for-reducing-soil-compaction/

Roots are preferable to steel for solving compaction

Buford T. Justice XIX

There's an interesting link in the tweet to a meta analysis of white clover inclusion in ryegrass awards.

https://twitter.com/jdairyscience/status/933475463766294529

Upstream

Some days science is just a load of pants...

Farmers cotton on to new soil test using their Y-fronts

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/farmers-cotton-on-tonew-soil-test-using-their-yfronts-36370616.html

Buford T. Justice XIX

A counter argument on the red meat causes cancer findings.

http://campaignforaccuracyinpublichealthresearch.com/red-meat/case-study/?platform=hootsuite

Floki

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

A counter argument on the red meat causes cancer findings.

http://campaignforaccuracyinpublichealthresearch.com/red-meat/case-study/?platform=hootsuite

I'm not sure it should be included in this thread so I'm not going to link it.
But search 40 year old vegan dies of heart attack on YouTube.
I would link it but the commentator has left science behind since becoming famous for this clip.

Buford T. Justice XIX

I came across this earlier, about where the European Bison originated from. Apparently, they are a hybrid of the extinct Steppe Bison and domesticated cattle.

http://www.dynastynow.com/2017/12/higgs-bison-is-missing-link-in-european.html

yosemitesam1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rhDq_VBhMWg

Worth a watch even though it's a different climate. The slide at 1130 is very relevant though if you don't want to be reseeding and lashing out fertilizer..

Floki

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rhDq_VBhMWg

Worth a watch even though it's a different climate. The slide at 1130 is very relevant though if you don't want to be reseeding and lashing out fertilizer..

Bullet points for me from that presentation were...
1) Find out information for yourself and don't be swayed by vested or ignorant (not truely knowing) interests.
2) Paddock rotational one day grazing are the most efficient carbon usage of land available.
3) Heavily stocked grazing ground uses up a lot more carbon than it releases and makes a mockery of commentators calling for a carbon tax on farmers with grazing animals when the opposite should be the case.
4) Taller plants grow longer roots (the same as a tree) but should not be left too long to make the plant too difficult to be grazed by that animal. Rotation of silage ground would be best in that case or take a cut off all ground once in the year.
5) Cover cropping of tillage ground in the winter or not leaving bare ground and reducing or eliminating the plough helps the buggers underground.

Our city dwellers and decision makers should have a gander at this before being so quick to look for taxes/income.

Waffletraktor

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://onpasture.com/2017/11/27/plants-are-better-than-subsoilers-for-reducing-soil-compaction/

Roots are preferable to steel for solving compaction

Two fields here called 'Labour in vain' and 'Ploughmans hearthbreak' more than welcome to try the theory on.

blue5000

https://www.journals.elsevier.com/geoderma/awards/best-paper-award-2016-the-winners

Not often that we get a freebie from science direct, perfect for anyone who wants a bit of light bedtime reading.

yosemitesam1

blue5000 wrote: »

https://www.journals.elsevier.com/geoderma/awards/best-paper-award-2016-the-winners

Not often that we get a freebie from science direct, perfect for anyone who wants a bit of light bedtime reading.

Libgen.io has nearly all the books and journal articles published by them for free if you ever want anything

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Libgen.io has nearly all the books and journal articles published by them for free if you ever want anything

Excellent. Thanks.

Siamsa Sessions

Hi all,

I'm starting Teagasc's distance learning green cert for non-ag degree holders in February.

Could anyone recommend some pre-course reading material? e.g would the ag science book for the Leaving Cert be relevant? Or would first-year college books be more useful?

I asked the Teagasc office but it was only the admin I spoke to. She seems sound but couldn't suggest any books that might be useful in advance of the course.

Thanks.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Not strictly farming related but it appeared in a conversation about veganism and confirmation bias in decision making.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Buford T. Justice XIX

I came across this link tonight. Mark Lynas was an anti GMO campaigner who changed over to being an advocate 5 years ago. He's giving the speech in the link to the 2018 Oxford farming conference to try to reconcile both sides of the campaign.

http://www.marklynas.org/2018/01/mark-lynas-speech-to-the-oxford-farming-conference-2018/

20silkcut

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not strictly farming related but it appeared in a conversation about veganism and confirmation bias in decision making.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds/amp?__twitter_impression=true

It is advantageous to have a certain amount of inertia in your opinions and beliefs. If you were to instantly do an about turn every time you were presented with new information you would not survive long and people would not be long taking advantage of you. Every sales man that comes into your yard would have a field day with you.

yosemitesam1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3SvG2nBCTM

Worth a look from about 3 minutes. Has some nice drawings of the differences to the soil a mix of sward species can make. Doesn't mention it in the video but maintaining/improving soil structure is a big effect.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A slightly different way of looking at methane reductions

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/100389969/agriculture-is-not-the-villain-when-it-comes-to-new-zealands-emissions

Say my name

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

A slightly different way of looking at methane reductions

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/100389969/agriculture-is-not-the-villain-when-it-comes-to-new-zealands-emissions

Just as a side note to all this talk of emissions and climate change.

The mantra from some people is to plant more trees and take more carbon from the atmosphere.
But the carbon dioxide that tree takes in and converts to carbon is well and good but it's pointless if that tree falls over and rots and emitts methane and carbon dioxide or burning that timber releases carbon dioxide. You're not really solving anything just doing a carbon and methane cycle.
Obviously it's better to not be burning fossil fuels and leave them where they are.

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

Just as a side note to all this talk of emissions and climate change.

The mantra from some people is to plant more trees and take more carbon from the atmosphere.
But the carbon dioxide that tree takes in and converts to carbon is well and good but it's pointless if that tree falls over and rots and emitts methane and carbon dioxide or burning that timber releases carbon dioxide. You're not really solving anything just doing a carbon and methane cycle.
Obviously it's better to not be burning fossil fuels and leave them where they are.

In an Irish context anyway there's actually no net gain and possibly a loss when grass is planted. Only what officially leads to carbon sequestration and real carbon sequestration aren't always in line...

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

In an Irish context anyway there's actually no net gain and possibly a loss when grass is planted. Only what officially leads to carbon sequestration and real carbon sequestration aren't always in line...

A question for you.

When we're talking about plant carbon sequestration (into the soil).
We're talking about in a aerobic soil environment.
What happens when that soil gets flooded?

Does the carbon turn to methane (rot) or does it turn into anaerobic carbon?

You're hell bent on grass.;)
Ask any ploughman (or woman) in Ireland which ground he prefers and takes less diesel to plough.
Long-term pasture or continuous ploughed tillage ground.

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

A question for you.

When we're talking about plant carbon sequestration (into the soil).
We're talking about in a aerobic soil environment.
What happens when that soil gets flooded?

Does the carbon turn to methane (rot) or does it turn into anaerobic carbon?

You're hell bent on grass.;)
Ask any ploughman (or woman) in Ireland which ground he prefers and takes less diesel to plough.
Long-term pasture or continuous ploughed tillage ground.

I'd say very little happens, it would be almost always too cold for much microbe activity, even in the summer it would be nothing compared to what would happen in Asia

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

You're hell bent on grass.;)
Ask any ploughman (or woman) in Ireland which ground he prefers and takes less diesel to plough.
Long-term pasture or continuous ploughed tillage ground.

Sher when your continually pummeling the top 6 or 8 inches into submission with lots of steel and diesel oil how can it have any substance other than soup to it.

Say my name

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Sher when your continually pummeling the top 6 or 8 inches into submission with lots of steel and diesel oil how can it have any substance other than soup to it.

I wouldn't go that far but you're right.
Although concrete would be a better comparison than soup.
(Although depends on the soil type).

Edit: if anyone plays golf. Portloaise golf course is supposed to be fed with a made up tea.

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far but you're right.
Although concrete would be a better comparison than soup.
(Although depends on the soil type).

Don't get me wrong we did as much of it as anyone for a time.
I remember in '13 after ploughing man's ground in june it baked, hard. Left to weather for 3 months then multiple passes of cultivations it still resembled lumps around the size of your fist at the end of Sept/early Oct.
These days take a more relaxed approach compared to the maxi(min)-til days that put BG seed through the whole profile.

yosemitesam1

Who spreads what by sector