Three teenagers crushed to death in Tyrone

Mint Sauce · 19-03-2019 11:10am

How does stuff like this still happen in a day and age where there is suppose to be paper work for everything? Between risk assesments, policies, procedures, insurance, forms for just changing a lightbulb, etc etc etc.

Was shocked when picked up the papers yesterday morning, and had another shudder when reading that survivors story. Yes it will lead to another investigation no doubt, and another peice of paperwork having to be produced, and no doubt, we will have another similar story down the line somewhere, due to another shortcut being taken somewhere.

RIP to the three kids, and condolances to their family and friends.

Bigbagofcans · 19-03-2019 11:17am

People criticise health and safety but I think you can never be too careful. There should be more bouncers/safety officers whenever there is a crowd expected anywhere.

iamwhoiam · 19-03-2019 11:27am

It was on the News that three buses arrived at the same time and all crowed in to the queue .That is something that needs looking in to as there should have been measures in place to ensure that didnt happen .

SirChenjin · 19-03-2019 11:31am

Truly unimaginable to think that three youngsters went on a night out and never came home. There are no words adequate to describe this horrific tragedy.
My thoughts are with their families and friends.

May they rest in peace, poor kids.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-03-2019 11:33am

Speaking from experience as a bouncer (not anymore but I spent 25 years on the job).

Bouncers are not trained in crowd control, and large venues are almost always under staffed when it comes to bouncers. Most owners will look at the minimum required (usually as recommended by the head doorman or security company supervisor) then chop two or three off that number again.

What was their instructions from either the head doorman or venue manager, what was happening the crowd that caused it to become unmanageable, there are so many questions needs to be asked of the venue's security/management policies and experiences of similar crush situations.

As a father I haven't been able to read into details, I can barely look at the photos of the three young people killed without it breaking my heart.

Poor kids, poor families and communities left devastated. I can't imagine the pain.

Ariadne · 19-03-2019 11:43am

It's just so, so sad. Those poor teenagers and their families. Such a horrible way to die and such an avoidable death. I mean to be going to a disco and to get crushed in the crowd on the way in, it's so senseless. I can't imagine what they went through before they died. This must be incredibly difficult for the survivors to deal with too, the account posted here was just harrowing.

Saint Sonner · 19-03-2019 12:13pm

Denver Glamorous Carp wrote: »

Speaking from experience as a bouncer (not anymore but I spent 25 years on the job).

Bouncers are not trained in crowd control, and large venues are almost always under staffed when it comes to bouncers. Most owners will look at the minimum required (usually as recommended by the head doorman or security company supervisor) then chop two or three off that number again.

What was their instructions from either the head doorman or venue manager, what was happening the crowd that caused it to become unmanageable, there are so many questions needs to be asked of the venue's security/management policies and experiences of similar crush situations.

As a father I haven't been able to read into details, I can barely look at the photos of the three young people killed without it breaking my heart.

Poor kids, poor families and communities left devastated. I can't imagine the pain.

In my opinion I don't think lack of training can be used here (I don't know whether they had it or not). This incident did not take seconds it took minutes upon minutes..... training or no training any strong adult employed by the hotel in the premises should have been out there when this horrific event started to transpire but by all accounts they weren't.

I know the venue well as it is our local hotel - it is a small venue there at least a dozen windows on the front of the building and the ones where the crowd had gathered are facing into reception. The disco hadn't even started so there can't be an excuse of they needed security inside to manage the crowd!

whiskeyman · 19-03-2019 12:34pm

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Mickey McElhatton the owner is a very well known and liked man and he is broken about it from what I hear. I am sure it will live with him forever.

I was surprised to see he made a statement yesterday.
It seemed very heartfelt and he looked and sounded distraught.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 1:02pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

I was surprised to see he made a statement yesterday.
It seemed very heartfelt and he looked and sounded distraught.

The poor man looked on the verge of tears.
There is no doubt he bears some responsibility for the events that unfolded but I don't envy him having the death of those children on his conscience.
The guilt he must be feeling is unbearable.

RIP to those poor kids.
Not downplaying the responsibility of security/hotel owners at all, but no one set out for this awful tragedy to happen.
They will undoubtedly also be suffering under the burden of their part in this.
Just awful all round.

whiskeyman · 19-03-2019 1:13pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Not downplaying the responsibility of security/hotel owners at all, but no one set out for this awful tragedy to happen.
They will undoubtedly also be suffering under the burden of their part in this.
Just awful all round.

The fact it's a local and rural establishment makes it worse IMO.
Owners and staff are probably very well known in the area.

If it was a busy city centre location, the establishment involved becomes more faceless.

That said, it's no excuse for following all the correct safety procedures.
I really hope no one is found at fault here, but at the same time I'm sure intervention or better planning could have prevented this tragedy.

ongarboy · 19-03-2019 2:55pm

I understand that because it happened at 9:30pm, would it be fair to say the doors to the venue wouldn't be open yet? Nightclubs rarely open before 11pm anyway so I suppose you wouldn't expect staff or doormen to be on duty until official opening time. Per RTE news, several buses arrived at the same time dropping a couple of 100 revellers off simultaneously. Maybe every other night, revellers arrived in dribs and drabs so there was never an antipated need for crowd control like you'd see at concerts and sporting events? This no doubt contributed to the rapidly deteriorating situation. The harrowing account from the girl caught up in it said that those on the outside of the crowd were unaware of the crush further in and were just eager to get as close to the door as possible which is why they would have pushed/surged forward for fear they missed gaining entry. This seems to be consistent factor in crushes as described by eyewitnesses at Hillsborough (those fans outside the turnstiles) and that German rock concert tunnel crush a few years ago. No one would deliberately want to cause a crush - they were just oblivious to what was happening outside of their sight line.

Very tragic and one of my worst nightmares - being suffocated or crushed and being totally helpless. God love those poor victims and their families (and indeed survivors).

Ave Sodalis · 19-03-2019 3:05pm

ongarboy wrote:

I understand that because it happened at 9:30pm, would it be fair to say the doors to the venue wouldn't be open yet? Nightclubs rarely open before 11pm anyway so I suppose you wouldn't expect staff or doormen to be on duty until official opening time.

It was a teenage disco. They usually start some time between 9 and half 9, and finish at midnight.

Saint Sonner · 19-03-2019 4:30pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

It was a teenage disco. They usually start some time between 9 and half 9, and finish at midnight.

It wasn't a teenage disco... the Greenvale forever and a day has been a disco to go to if you where underage but could get in and get alcohol. In my day and I believe its still the case if your 19 you wouldn't go to the Greenvale Disco as you would be to old for the crowd.

AFAIK doors had just been opened and thats what caused the surge but what happened next is where i struggle..... did the bouncers close the doors when they saw the crowd surge and thought they where going to over run them? Could there not have been some way of getting them into to the venue by opening the doors and rush them into the safety of the empty venue? E.g. Hillsborough - fans where saved by getting them onto the space of the pitch.

Even if they closed the doors thinking they where doing the right thing? the position of the windows of the hotel are important.... the children where being crushed up against a window at the front of the hotel..... could see some confusion if the crush was happening at a large wall.

To say the bouncers did not start to 9.30 shouldn't be an issue..... 'i see a crush out there...... its 9.25 i dont start to 9.30' the door staff failed in my opinion.

There's a smoking area above the door where this crush took place and there is video footage before the crush happening showing the mass crowd of children.... who took this video would be interesting.

Chopper83 · 19-03-2019 5:06pm

This shocked me but didn't completely surprise me knowing the layout of the entrance. looking on twitter you can see young'ins complaining about the queue over the past few years and even one person predicting this years ago...

This was completely avoidable and from experience over the years there has been many problems with queues and crowds in the Greenvale. It was notorious for fights outside it back in my day but a lot of places had the same reputation.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 19-03-2019 5:30pm

So sad. They should have been in the disco with their sneaky naggins, shifting and feeling boobs and other teenage high jinks. Not getting crushed to death getting in.

This freaks me out because I got caught in crushes outside venues a few times as a teenager. In one incident, my feet actually left the ground. In those circumstances, all it takes is for one person to stumble for panic and disaster to ensue.

ongarboy · 19-03-2019 5:51pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

It was a teenage disco. They usually start some time between 9 and half 9, and finish at midnight.

It definitely wasn't a teenage disco. It was a regular over 18s disco. That is why the PSNI have urged attendees to come forward with any eye witness accounts and not to be concerned about the fact that they might be uncomfortable admitting they were attending (or attempting to attend) a night club that they were legally underage for.

https://news.sky.com/story/cookstown-hotel-disco-crush-underage-witnesses-wont-be-punished-say-police-11670184

Laois_Man · 19-03-2019 5:58pm

Video's of eye witness accounts

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/people-were-trying-to-pick-each-other-up-but-it-just-became-a-struggle-witness-describes-tragic-crush-at-disco-37930262.html

https://www.facebook.com/UTV/videos/572333956510343/

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-03-2019 6:00pm

Saint Sonner wrote: »

In my opinion I don't think lack of training can be used here (I don't know whether they had it or not). This incident did not take seconds it took minutes upon minutes..... training or no training any strong adult employed by the hotel in the premises should have been out there when this horrific event started to transpire but by all accounts they weren't.

I know the venue well as it is our local hotel - it is a small venue there at least a dozen windows on the front of the building and the ones where the crowd had gathered are facing into reception. The disco hadn't even started so there can't be an excuse of they needed security inside to manage the crowd!

If the disco hadn't started its likely the full compliment of security weren't in work yet.

Again, I don't know the place but in my experience the first budget cuts in clubs, bars and disco's starts with security.

Like I've said already venue's are usually understaffed when it comes to security. I've never worked in a single venue which was up to strength, not a single one.

Head doormen are always asking for more staff, and security company supervisors are always looking for more security staff, barmen and women always look for more security staff and when things go tits up EVERYONE wants more security staff, but club owners won't pay so they'll get a minimum number required from the head doorman and chop that number again.

Security is very expensive, its not a job that people take on long term so its hard to get experienced staff, and experienced staff don't come cheap.

Doorstaff and event security are given no crowd control training, there's no legal requirement for either north or south of the border, maybe this should change.

Another thing worth considering is the numbers of staff employed for a Paddy's Day disco. Again club owners won't pay for extra staff or longer hours, most won't even pay a bonus for working that night.

Paddy's Day is crazy in any venue, its a nightmare because you're expected to work a packed venue with the usual weekend compliment of security staff.

Then if you have buses emptying into a closed venue, no one to supervise the crowd and a crush zone, this was probably always likely to happen and I'd be surprised if concerns hadn't been raised in the past.

Shn99 · 19-03-2019 6:59pm

2 arrested on corporate manslaughter grounds
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/two-men-arrested-in-connection-with-st-patricks-day-disco-deaths-37930777.html

Saint Sonner · 19-03-2019 7:53pm

Denver Glamorous Carp wrote: »

If the disco hadn't started its likely the full compliment of security weren't in work yet.

Again, I don't know the place but in my experience the first budget cuts in clubs, bars and disco's starts with security.

Like I've said already venue's are usually understaffed when it comes to security. I've never worked in a single venue which was up to strength, not a single one.

Head doormen are always asking for more staff, and security company supervisors are always looking for more security staff, barmen and women always look for more security staff and when things go tits up EVERYONE wants more security staff, but club owners won't pay so they'll get a minimum number required from the head doorman and chop that number again.

Security is very expensive, its not a job that people take on long term so its hard to get experienced staff, and experienced staff don't come cheap.

Doorstaff and event security are given no crowd control training, there's no legal requirement for either north or south of the border, maybe this should change.

Another thing worth considering is the numbers of staff employed for a Paddy's Day disco. Again club owners won't pay for extra staff or longer hours, most won't even pay a bonus for working that night.

Paddy's Day is crazy in any venue, its a nightmare because you're expected to work a packed venue with the usual weekend compliment of security staff.

Then if you have buses emptying into a closed venue, no one to supervise the crowd and a crush zone, this was probably always likely to happen and I'd be surprised if concerns hadn't been raised in the past.

Find it very hard to have sympathy for door staff this week

Saint Sonner · 19-03-2019 7:54pm

Shn99 wrote: »

2 arrested on corporate manslaughter grounds
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/two-men-arrested-in-connection-with-st-patricks-day-disco-deaths-37930777.html

The owner mickey mcelhatton would be 52 I believe so probably him and another.

The Talking Bread · 19-03-2019 7:56pm

I really hope the media are very careful with how they report/word this investigation. especially at this early stage.

Baggly · 19-03-2019 9:46pm

Thread closed. Arrests made.

Three teenagers crushed to death in Tyrone

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