Great video on the Gender pay gap

PlaneSpeeking · 05-07-2018 10:41am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh but that's what equality means.... :rolleyes:

Kinda starting to see that! Worrying times!!

I feel sorry for the women of the 50s and 60s - my mother's generation (she was born in 1940).

They succeeded against genuine odds. Today's women have zero clue. They just want to use imagined misogyny to get advantages in life they do not deserve to make up for a failing in themselves.

py2006 · 05-07-2018 10:53am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

"We promote the economic independence of women by providing workwear, a network of support and career development tools"

So always wanting a unlevel playing field ???

You see, women are an impoverished minority in Ireland. The Men continue to oppress and the workforce only offers support and career development opportunities to its male employers.

PlaneSpeeking · 05-07-2018 11:04am

py2006 wrote: »

You see, women are an impoverished minority in Ireland. The Men continue to oppress and the workforce only offers support and career development opportunities to its male employers.

Absolutely!

As I sit in an exclusively female office, with a female boss and a female boss's boss!!!

H3llR4iser · 05-07-2018 11:28am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Kinda starting to see that! Worrying times!!

I feel sorry for the women of the 50s and 60s - my mother's generation (she was born in 1940).

They succeeded against genuine odds. Today's women have zero clue. They just want to use imagined misogyny to get advantages in life they do not deserve to make up for a failing in themselves.

That's something I always think about...but there's even more: The situation is bound to be extremely annoying for the women currently going through their careers, achieving goals and advancing on merit and skills; They're bound to be lobbed in with the "she's got there because of gender quotas/feminists/government policies".

As usual, the whole "feminist" movement / push of is not really looking at the big picture and realizing they're actually doing a disservice to the ladies who don't see themselves as "weak" and "discriminated"...

05-07-2018 1:01pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That's something I always think about...but there's even more: The situation is bound to be extremely annoying for the women currently going through their careers, achieving goals and advancing on merit and skills; They're bound to be lobbed in with the "she's got there because of gender quotas/feminists/government policies".

As usual, the whole "feminist" movement / push of is not really looking at the big picture and realizing they're actually doing a disservice to the ladies who don't see themselves as "weak" and "discriminated"...

And a middle finger to all those men who tried to get these positions but failed because they weren't just good enough. I know quite a few guys who were awesome in their specialised areas but passed over continuously for management positions.

I get that there are a lot of men in higher positions, but there are a lot more guys who aren't. Where is the "equality" commission for them?

PlaneSpeeking · 05-07-2018 1:20pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That's something I always think about...but there's even more: The situation is bound to be extremely annoying for the women currently going through their careers, achieving goals and advancing on merit and skills; They're bound to be lobbed in with the "she's got there because of gender quotas/feminists/government policies".

As usual, the whole "feminist" movement / push of is not really looking at the big picture and realizing they're actually doing a disservice to the ladies who don't see themselves as "weak" and "discriminated"...

I was actually lectured to about the gender pay gap and how "every woman is paid less than a man" (it was on a day near the end of year where women can walk out or something ???)

I pointed out three men in the office who I earn more than for doing the same job - one substantially more.

Aghast looks and "that's not possible" - I pointed out I'd been doing this job for longer than the youngest one had been alive and when I started my career the other two were under 6.

"Yes but you have no children, so man are keeping you down and not letting you fulfil your biological destiny".

HUH ????

PlaneSpeeking · 05-07-2018 1:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And a middle finger to all those men who tried to get these positions but failed because they weren't just good enough. I know quite a few guys who were awesome in their specialised areas but passed over continuously for management positions.

I get that there are a lot of men in higher positions, but there are a lot more guys who aren't. Where is the "equality" commission for them?

Last three jobs of any rank in my place - shortlists of 4/5/5 people. All women.

Not on that.

iptba · 16-07-2018 12:52am

Sat 14 Jul 2018 07.00 BST
‘I’m on £14,500 a year and it’s a knife-edge lifestyle’
Children’s services support officer Claire Mynott on her finances – and why it is a scandal how little women are paid

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/14/im-on-14500-a-year-and-its-a-knife-edge-lifestyle

It sounds like this woman doesn't have much to live on. But I'm not sure what can be extrapolated from that about gender and pay: the article doesn't seem to say anything regarding it anyway. She simply does a job that is not well paid: the UK isn't a communist state so some jobs are better paid than others. She has a degree in fine art which is probably not the best degree to do if you want a well-paying job.

16-07-2018 1:05am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/14/im-on-14500-a-year-and-its-a-knife-edge-lifestyle

It sounds like this woman doesn't have much to live on. But I'm not sure what can be extrapolated from that about gender and pay: the article doesn't seem to say anything regarding it anyway. She simply does a job that is not well paid: the UK isn't a communist state so some jobs are better paid than others. She has a degree in fine art which is probably not the best degree to do if you want a well-paying job.

I really don't get this kind of attitude.. I understand that people want to do certain types of jobs, but we all do research beforehand to determine if it's viable. I entered business/finance not because i loved my work, but because it paid well. When I left school, finance was the fastest growing industry in Ireland, and it paid very well. Naturally, I started at the bottom, where my salary barely covered my rent and living costs (nothing extra for playtime), but I knew I would advance later for better salaries.

Now. When I was in school, I was interested in Celtic studies. But... jobs were limited, and the salaries quite low. I could have done it. I had the points, and my parents would have supported my interest... but... what would have been the point? I wouldn't have earned enough to have the lifestyle I wanted.

And so i see these articles about care workers, and I get that it's a necessary job but... really?

PlaneSpeeking · 16-07-2018 8:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't get this kind of attitude.. I understand that people want to do certain types of jobs, but we all do research beforehand to determine if it's viable. I entered business/finance not because i loved my work, but because it paid well. When I left school, finance was the fastest growing industry in Ireland, and it paid very well. Naturally, I started at the bottom, where my salary barely covered my rent and living costs (nothing extra for playtime), but I knew I would advance later for better salaries.

Now. When I was in school, I was interested in Celtic studies. But... jobs were limited, and the salaries quite low. I could have done it. I had the points, and my parents would have supported my interest... but... what would have been the point? I wouldn't have earned enough to have the lifestyle I wanted.

And so i see these articles about care workers, and I get that it's a necessary job but... really?

+1

I read not long back (in the UK Grauniad, so.....

) a woman whining on about how she earns 20,000 a year less than her twin.

She is a carer in a nursing home with no qualifications bar low GCSEs. He has an engineering Masters and works for a US steel company.

Yet it's "gender" that means they earn a different amount - sure what else could it possibly be ?

iptba · 16-07-2018 1:38pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/14/im-on-14500-a-year-and-its-a-knife-edge-lifestyle

It sounds like this woman doesn't have much to live on. But I'm not sure what can be extrapolated from that about gender and pay: the article doesn't seem to say anything regarding it anyway. She simply does a job that is not well paid: the UK isn't a communist state so some jobs are better paid than others. She has a degree in fine art which is probably not the best degree to do if you want a well-paying job.

I note she hopes to retire at 55. This facility would not be available in many private sector jobs. Some people might be willing to sacrifice some take-home pay for perks like this, others might not.

iptba · 06-08-2018 1:37pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/women-lawyers-highlight-gender-pay-gap-at-financial-firms-1.3587246

Women lawyers highlight gender pay gap at financial firms
More than half of female lawyers surveyed support gender quotas to combat inequality

---

The study was carried out by corporate law firm Mason Hayes & Curran. It found that about half of the female lawyers surveyed had moved to in-house roles for a better work-life balance.

[..]

The research suggests that the burden of childcare and running the home is falling “for the most part” on the shoulders of women, and this is hindering their route to senior roles.

It sounds like the long hours that may be currently required in some jobs may be a big factor rather than discrimination per se.

iptba · 01-09-2018 2:11am

I just have the Saorview selection of TV stations for the last while and have ended up watching "Can't pay? We'll take it away" a number of times. It follows bailiffs/High Court enforcement officers doing their work.

On the programme tonight a bailiff was assaulted and had his life threatened by a guy who said he'd be willing to go back to prison to get at him. All the bailiffs I have seen were male. The job probably requires minimal training, but I imagine they are not on the minimum wage. It's an unpleasant job involving confrontation and more.

An example of a job where a man might be willing to take on a dangerous or unpleasant job to earn more money. These factors don't seem to be generally factored into the gender pay comparison from what I have seen.

01-09-2018 8:50am

It's often mentioned in the context of mining jobs

01-09-2018 9:22am

iptba wrote: »

An example of a job where a man might be willing to take on a dangerous or unpleasant job to earn more money. These factors don't seem to be generally factored into the gender pay comparison from what I have seen.

There's a cultural thing with that though. I know from working in Credit Control & liquidations in Oz, that many court bailiffs can be female, and in fact, you'll see a greater amount of women in traditionally masculine jobs. Not so much with mining, which is understandable considering the remoteness and having to deal with the population differences within mining camps.

But, yes, generally speaking there are heaps of jobs which women have zero interest in working, and even when they do, it's a very clear minority.

Just look at combat positions in the military.. there are women in these positions, but the numbers pale in comparison to the numbers in administration, or office roles. Think how long ago is GI Jane... :rolleyes: and yet, the numbers haven't even reached close to parity. (I've heard all the excuses) but consider any other area where women wanted to work... do you think the excuses would be allowed then?

iptba · 10-10-2018 4:51pm

One thing I would be interested in seeing is the time males and females spend doing background reading during their “free time”. For example, quite a lot of guys I know spend time reading business sections of newspapers, watching business news on TV, etc. Such research wouldn’t tend to get included when calculating how many hours people work.

professore · 16-10-2018 5:17pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

o1s1n wrote: »

Just because there are some stories about people being paid less doesn't mean there's a global gender pay gap. It's a massive leap to infer one from the other.

Did you watch the video in the OP?

yes but how can you say that the older woman's story is not relavent to today, when gender pay gap stories are very often reported in today's media. It is a current problem.

Martina Navratalova added to the report on the BBC discrimination case, saying that she was paid 15,000 in comparison to John McEnroe's 150,000 for the same commentary gigs, that she was lied to and told she was receiving the same as her male costars.

Of course it exists.
It would be like there being hundreds of incidents of racism documented in the media, and me saying it doesn't exist.

All these gender discrimination incidents have been reported, people have launched investigations , and they have all been documented in the media.

All this proves is the men had better agents than she had.

professore · 16-10-2018 5:27pm

My daughter is very talented at art. She is also talented at science. She is doing a STEM degree because she is smart enough to know that her chances of making a decent living are far higher with a STEM degree than with a fine arts degree. So far she has no problems and has secured an industrial placement this year with ease. It seems there are lots of young women her age who can't work this out, and want to cry "discrimination" at every opportunity.

Conversely there are loads of young men who sit at home playing video games doing nothing with their lives, so much so that the last survey was done in ireland showed that for people under 30, women earn on average 18% MORE than men. This was reported as "-18% less" in the media.

This is not to say there is NO discrimination; but it is far less than reported.
And if you want more money, male or female, ask for it - and if you don't get it, leave. If you can't leave because no one else wants to employ you, that tells you all you need to know about your true economic value.

iptba · 25-10-2018 9:42pm

(UK)

Gender pay gap at lowest level yet, says ONS

The gender pay gap has fallen to its lowest level yet, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) has reported.

In the year to April 2018, the gap for full-time workers was 8.6% - down from 9.1% in the previous year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45977390

The ONS said the pay gap for those under the age of 39 was now insignificant

iptba · 05-11-2018 7:06pm

Barbara McCarthy: 'Gender pay-gap myth ignores personal choice of women'

One of the best studies on the wage gap was released in 2009 by the US Department of Labour. It examined more than 50 peer- reviewed papers and concluded the 23pc US wage gap "may be almost entirely the result of individual choices being made by both male and female workers".

In the UK, women in their 20s have reversed the gender pay gap. Figures compiled by the Press Association show that, between the ages of 22 and 29, a woman will earn €1,265 more per annum than her male counterpart. Again, it appears to grow after women traditionally start having children. So our biological make-up decides many of us don't want to work long hours, on oil rigs, in coal mines or as CEOs.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/barbara-mccarthy-gender-paygap-myth-ignores-personal-choice-of-women-37492078.html

iptba · 10-11-2018 3:52am

Just heard on the news of Absolute Radio nineties (UK) that it was claimed that the gender pay comparison, which says women will work for free for the rest of the year, is based on a like-for-like comparison which I very much doubt.

Aside: The news only had 4 or 5 items. The next item was about a campaign to get more women into the UK military police. There are so many campaigns these days for women, or at least the media highlights a lot of such campaigns.

iptba · 08-12-2018 6:47pm

https://twitter.com/theprogressives/status/1064538359429775360?s=11

This ad appeared in my Twitter timeline today. I very much doubt it is a like-for-like comparison.

S&D Group
@TheProgressives

The Socialists and Democrats Group in the European Parliament works for social justice & equality for all EU citizens.
Europe
socialistsanddemocrats.eu

Over the last year, I have had a number of different ads from them in my Twitter timeline. Most or all were about gender.

Defunkd · 10-01-2019 3:11pm

A Harvard study "Why do women earn less than men?" (Bolotny et Emanuel) - released before Christmas - has found that a gender pay gap exists but is entirely due to work choices of men and women and not because of institutional bias/sexism.
Really interesting study.

I don't know how to add links from my phone but, unsurprisingly, there is no MSM outlet carrying the story. I looked at Harvard Magazine and going by their articles, i doubt the paper will get front-page coverage.

The Foundation for Economic Education (fee.org) have it posted under Economics Dec 10 and the other websites...i've never heard of before.

iptba · 10-01-2019 3:18pm

Defunkd wrote: »

A Harvard study "Why do women earn less than men?" (Bolotny et Emanuel) - released before Christmas - has found that a gender pay gap exists but is entirely due to work choices of men and women and not because of institutional bias/sexism.
Really interesting study.

I don't know how to add links from my phone but, unsurprisingly, there is no MSM outlet carrying the story. I looked at Harvard Magazine and going by their articles, i doubt the paper will get front-page coverage.

The Foundation for Economic Education (fee.org) have it posted under Economics Dec 10 and the other websites...i've never heard of before.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explained-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women/

NIMAN · 19-01-2019 1:53am

I take all this on board, the initial video and people not doing the same jobs etc.

But as an example, what about Brian Dobson and Sharon Ní Bheoláin when they co-hosted the 6.1 news? Dobbo was on much more money.

Or the BBC foreign editor who quit cos her male counterparts were earning 50% more?

Surely these are examples that are illegal? Men and women doing the same jobs and getting paid differently is meant to be illegal, is it not?

suicide_circus · 19-01-2019 10:29am

NIMAN wrote: »

I take all this on board, the initial video and people not doing the same jobs etc.

But as an example, what about Brian Dobson and Sharon Nheol when they co-hosted the 6.1 news? Dobbo was on much more money.

Or the BBC foreign editor who quit cos her male counterparts were earning 50% more?

Surely these are examples that are illegal? Men and women doing the same jobs and getting paid differently is meant to be illegal, is it not?

Dobson was working as a pirate radio news presenter in 1981, when Sharon was 10.

NIMAN · 19-01-2019 9:16pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dobson was working as a pirate radio news presenter in 1981, when Sharon was 10.

Sorry, no idea what that means.

They were both doing the same job at the same time on RTE main news, so technically there was a gender pay gap.

source · 20-01-2019 9:04am

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry, no idea what that means.

They were both doing the same job at the same time on RTE main news, so technically there was a gender pay gap.

The length of time doing the job also plays a factor in pay. For example, Gardai, let's say one on the job 10 years and one on the job 3 years. Both will be earning vasty different amounts for doing the same job, as one will be further along the payscale for the job, so more experienced.

The other poster was pointing out that Brian Dobson would be earning more as he had been doing the job for considerably longer. Basically, he's paid more because he had far far far more experience.

Eric Cartman · 20-01-2019 8:41pm

There is no document or study that ever seems to conclude that theres any gap outside a 1% margin of error for childless professionals who stuck with one career path. The pay gap year for year of experience in the same category only seems to be impacted by the presence of children or where women have switched careers at some point, men tend to be much more likely to stay in the same line of work and build up , more habitual creatures.

NIMAN · 21-01-2019 5:01pm

source wrote: »

The length of time doing the job also plays a factor in pay. For example, Gardai, let's say one on the job 10 years and one on the job 3 years. Both will be earning vasty different amounts for doing the same job, as one will be further along the payscale for the job, so more experienced.

The other poster was pointing out that Brian Dobson would be earning more as he had been doing the job for considerably longer. Basically, he's paid more because he had far far far more experience.

I understand that, and indeed it's a gap I would argue for in my own line of work. We have had occasions where someone doing the same job as me has enquired as to why people in 10 years longer are earning more to do exactly the same job.

I too would have said that I have 10 yrs more experience, 10 yr worth of annual assessments or appraisals etc and as such should be on more.

But technically, there is a gap for 2 people doing the same job.

Great video on the Gender pay gap

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