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Great video on the Gender pay gap

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    #2
    CulptPrit
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 49 ✭CulptPrit


    Just what I always expected. At least Donald Trump wouldn't talk bull**** on this matter, unlike Trudeau.

    The question is, can the government really force equal pay. Businesses will find away around it, right? I hear many companies avoid this by setting up partner companies where they place there top staff.

    And why aren't such feminists labelled 'conspiracy theorists'?


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    #3
    Maxpfizer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭Maxpfizer


    CulptPrit wrote: »
    Just what I always expected. At least Donald Trump wouldn't talk bull**** on this matter, unlike Trudeau.

    The question is, can the government really force equal pay. Businesses will find away around it, right? I hear many companies avoid this by setting up partner companies where they place there top staff.

    And why aren't such feminists labelled 'conspiracy theorists'?

    The government won't have to force equal pay because businesses will embrace it.

    Consider that any business boasting a Gender Pay Gap of zero will almost certainly be paying a majority of it's employees minimum wage AND will be making it more difficult for employees to increase their earnings.

    They'll get a massive pat on the back for it too. Nobody is going to berate a large corporation for not giving out pay raises but they certainly will sing their praises if there's no "pay gap".

    Most businesses are all about that "good PR" these days too.

    Consider a situation like this.

    Jack and Jill start a new job on the same day. Their employer is only paying the minimum wage. Every year the management give Jack and Jill a pay raise. It might only be 1 pound an hour but that all adds up.

    Jack and Jill do the same job, work the same hours, perform the exact same tasks. After 10 years in the job they are up a full 10 pounds an hour compared to when they started.

    They company gets so much praise for their "Zero Pay Gap".

    However, Jill decides one day to leave the company. She wants to move to Australia or pursue further education or even raise kids. It doesn't really matter.

    Now, the company brings in new employee Jane.

    For the first year Jack and Jane do the same job, work the same hours and do the same tasks. Jack earns more though.

    The company is literally paying Jack more money for equal work. That's a fact. There's a reason for that but you already know we are going to ignore the reasons.

    The company does it's annual Gender Pay Gap report and, Dun Dun Dun, for the first time in a decade they have a Gender Pay Gap.

    Jane is pissed and she takes to Twitter. She just wants equal pay for equal work.

    The company could solve this problem and be a media darling once again next year by:

    A: Letting current employee Jack go and bringing in new employee Jim on minimum wage.
    B: Giving Jane a massive pay raise based not on loyalty to the company but gender.
    C: Force current employee Jack to take pretty demoralizing pay cut.

    Over time companies will learn that the best way to not fall foul of the Gender Pay Gap is to pay all employees minimum wages and restrict their ability to increase their pay.

    Or at least they will have strict wage "levels" and strict rules on gender balance within those levels. There would be restrictions on the ability to move between levels.

    People will always try to link Feminism to Communism and if you squint a little here you can almost see that starting to take shape.

    Build the Gender Pay Gap up as a big thing. Punish companies that don't keep a pay gap of zero (either legally or in the court of public opinion). What's the logical conclusion?

    Pay everyone the same? Don't pay people in money but rather just give the people what they need and no more?

    Forget paying each according to their ability/loyalty/experience? Let's pay each according to their needs?


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    #4
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    https://youtu.be/7VAZx07rOKU?t=8m10s

    Warren Farrell is a former directors of the National Organization for Women in New York and an expert on the gender pay gap and wrote Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap--and what Women Can Do about it.

    In this video he conducts an experiment to demonstrate the additional sacrifices men generally make in terms of their careers vs family life to indicate why they work and earn more and why women have better work/ life balance.


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    #5
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    Maxpfizer wrote: »
    A: Letting current employee Jack go and bringing in new employee Jim on minimum wage.
    B: Giving Jane a massive pay raise based not on loyalty to the company but gender.
    C: Force current employee Jack to take pretty demoralizing pay cut.

    Chances are, unless Jack is an absolutely key figure in the business, they'll just fire him, hire Jim an then implement the "no pay rise" policy.

    There's another scenario though - Jill stays with the company and Jack is the one leaving to go open an Ice Cream parlor in Greenland or something like that. They bring in Jim, who will earn considerably less than Jill. When the "Gender Pay Gap Report" time comes around, the company has what is now called a "negative pay gap" - will that be a problem too? One would assume it will be...and if Jim realizes that and complains, will he just be told to "do a better job and earn a rise"?

    EDIT - I wrote this before watching the video. This lady speaks with the light of reason, it's a rarity nowadays. I've always supported her point that "feminists" do nothing other than paint women as weak, incapable "victims" unable to face the consequences of their own choices, and that need "protection". Children, basically, where the premises should be the exact opposite.

    It's extremely telling that the interviewer, at some point, goes "this is not what we were looking for, we can't use this!". If there ever was a doubt about the media being one of the foremost (if not the main) culprits for only giving "airtime" to a specific, extremist, delusional and frankly idiotic side of the discussion, this pretty much nails it down with a neon sign for signpost...


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    #6
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7GWHgVZJQU


    https://youtu.be/J7GWHgVZJQU

    She says it exactly as it is. Women can higher paid jobs if they want to work in a warehouse rather than shop floor was a perfect example. Also working extra hours, overtime etc. often it is a choice. If they don't work these roles or work the overtime, then don't be surprised if the annual pay is less. Same goes for men.


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    #7
    CulptPrit
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 49 ✭CulptPrit


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Chances are, unless Jack is an absolutely key figure in the business, they'll just fire him, hire Jim an then implement the "no pay rise" policy.

    There's another scenario though - Jill stays with the company and Jack is the one leaving to go open an Ice Cream parlor in Greenland or something like that. They bring in Jim, who will earn considerably less than Jill. When the "Gender Pay Gap Report" time comes around, the company has what is now called a "negative pay gap" - will that be a problem too? One would assume it will be...and if Jim realizes that and complains, will he just be told to "do a better job and earn a rise"?

    EDIT - I wrote this before watching the video. This lady speaks with the light of reason, it's a rarity nowadays. I've always supported her point that "feminists" do nothing other than paint women as weak, incapable "victims" unable to face the consequences of their own choices, and that need "protection". Children, basically, where the premises should be the exact opposite.

    It's extremely telling that the interviewer, at some point, goes "this is not what we were looking for, we can't use this!". If there ever was a doubt about the media being one of the foremost (if not the main) culprits for only giving "airtime" to a specific, extremist, delusional and frankly idiotic side of the discussion, this pretty much nails it down with a neon sign for signpost...
    I'm amazed at how stupid people can be to buy into this. Would this have been tolerated 20 years ago? If people won't listen to an argument takes more than 20 seconds to make, then it will be very hard to win over the feminists. Does one always have to talk to people as if they're stupid in order to win a debate?

    I think this is mainly a problem in Britain. Perhaps it's not so much a problem in the U.S. Trump certainly didn't feel as if he had to pretend to be in favour of equal pay, in order to win the election.

    I always considered channel 4 news to be good. But this gender pay issue is one of the problems I have with it at the moment


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    #8
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Maxpfizer wrote: »
    The government won't have to force equal pay because businesses will embrace it.

    Consider that any business boasting a Gender Pay Gap of zero will almost certainly be paying a majority of it's employees minimum wage AND will be making it more difficult for employees to increase their earnings.

    They'll get a massive pat on the back for it too. Nobody is going to berate a large corporation for not giving out pay raises but they certainly will sing their praises if there's no "pay gap".

    Most businesses are all about that "good PR" these days too.

    Consider a situation like this.

    Jack and Jill start a new job on the same day. Their employer is only paying the minimum wage. Every year the management give Jack and Jill a pay raise. It might only be 1 pound an hour but that all adds up.

    Jack and Jill do the same job, work the same hours, perform the exact same tasks. After 10 years in the job they are up a full 10 pounds an hour compared to when they started.

    They company gets so much praise for their "Zero Pay Gap".

    However, Jill decides one day to leave the company. She wants to move to Australia or pursue further education or even raise kids. It doesn't really matter.

    Now, the company brings in new employee Jane.

    For the first year Jack and Jane do the same job, work the same hours and do the same tasks. Jack earns more though.

    The company is literally paying Jack more money for equal work. That's a fact. There's a reason for that but you already know we are going to ignore the reasons.

    The company does it's annual Gender Pay Gap report and, Dun Dun Dun, for the first time in a decade they have a Gender Pay Gap.

    Jane is pissed and she takes to Twitter. She just wants equal pay for equal work.

    The company could solve this problem and be a media darling once again next year by:

    A: Letting current employee Jack go and bringing in new employee Jim on minimum wage.
    B: Giving Jane a massive pay raise based not on loyalty to the company but gender.
    C: Force current employee Jack to take pretty demoralizing pay cut.

    Over time companies will learn that the best way to not fall foul of the Gender Pay Gap is to pay all employees minimum wages and restrict their ability to increase their pay.

    Or at least they will have strict wage "levels" and strict rules on gender balance within those levels. There would be restrictions on the ability to move between levels.

    People will always try to link Feminism to Communism and if you squint a little here you can almost see that starting to take shape.

    Build the Gender Pay Gap up as a big thing. Punish companies that don't keep a pay gap of zero (either legally or in the court of public opinion). What's the logical conclusion?

    Pay everyone the same? Don't pay people in money but rather just give the people what they need and no more?

    Forget paying each according to their ability/loyalty/experience? Let's pay each according to their needs?

    D) could be to hire a guy on minimum wage leaving no gender pay gap.

    Good point though.


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    #9
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭iptba


    Half of organisations want regulation to boost gender diversity
    It is particularly noteworthy that the research - carried out among more than 150 senior leaders across a range of indigenous, multinational and public sector organisations - found that of the 49pc in favour of regulation to address diversity, almost eight in 10 people said that they favour regulation to address gender diversity of boards.

    Meanwhile nine in 10 people in this group said that they favoured legislation to address the gender pay gap.

    "With gender pay gap legislation on the government agenda, it's encouraging to see that many Irish businesses are supportive of the move," Olivia McEvoy, director of diversity and inclusion advisory service at EY Ireland, said.
    From:
    https://www.independent.ie/business/world/half-of-organisations-want-regulation-to-boost-gender-diversity-36841815.html


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    #10
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Maxpfizer wrote: »
    Consider a situation like this.

    Jack and Jill start a new job on the same day. Their employer is only paying the minimum wage. Every year the management give Jack and Jill a pay raise. It might only be 1 pound an hour but that all adds up.

    Jack and Jill do the same job, work the same hours, perform the exact same tasks. After 10 years in the job they are up a full 10 pounds an hour compared to when they started.

    They company gets so much praise for their "Zero Pay Gap".

    However, Jill decides one day to leave the company. She wants to move to Australia or pursue further education or even raise kids. It doesn't really matter.

    Now, the company brings in new employee Jane.

    Has already happened in real life:

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/02/17/news/avoca-cafe-two-female-workers-win-equal-pay-claim-934954/

    The male employee was paid more because he had extra qualifications, experience and had requested pay rises. The Equality Commission of Northern Ireland disregarded that and said that they were discriminating on the grounds of gender. Even a company like Avoca, which is about as far from a big capitalist patriarchy company as you can get, is a misogynist these days.


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    #11
    CulptPrit
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 49 ✭CulptPrit


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    The male employee was paid more because he had extra qualifications, experience and had requested pay rises.
    Well in the article, it just says he "had experience as a barista". Seems you exaggerated that. So presumably the company was asked if he was actually a better worker, and they might not have been able to prove so.

    But if it were the reverse situation, would a male employee have the nerve to make a claim.

    In this case, he should have kept his mouth shut.


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    #12
    aaakev
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    We will get to a situation where time served and loyalty to a company will mean nothing... its a race to the bottom


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    #13
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    CulptPrit wrote: »
    Well in the article, it just says he "had experience as a barista". Seems you exaggerated that. So presumably the company was asked if he was actually a better worker, and they might not have been able to prove so.

    But if it were the reverse situation, would a male employee have the nerve to make a claim.

    In this case, he should have kept his mouth shut.

    That's theoretically going to happen at some point, and there's (still theoretically) no reason why it shouldn't be treated just the same way...

    In reality, it's going to be interesting. My money is on the "work harder, get qualified, ask for a raise and be a man!" line being taken in these cases, but who knows, I hope I'll be proven wrong...


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    #14
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    It's extremely telling that the interviewer, at some point, goes "this is not what we were looking for, we can't use this!". If there ever was a doubt about the media being one of the foremost (if not the main) culprits for only giving "airtime" to a specific, extremist, delusional and frankly idiotic side of the discussion, this pretty much nails it down with a neon sign for signpost...
    Isn't that all deliberate?

    I'm pretty sure the "interviewer" is a political satirist...


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    #15
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    cantdecide wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/7VAZx07rOKU?t=8m10s

    Warren Farrell is a former directors of the National Organization for Women in New York and an expert on the gender pay gap and wrote Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap--and what Women Can Do about it.

    In this video he conducts an experiment to demonstrate the additional sacrifices men generally make in terms of their careers vs family life to indicate why they work and earn more and why women have better work/ life balance.

    I was just thinking of a conversation that I had with an Irish woman in her 60's.
    She was talking about the gap today and recounted her own experiences.
    She said that when she was a young woman working, men doing the same job, same length of time, were paid a huge amount more than her. Sexism was abound at that time, even more than now, so women were paid leas for same work.


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    #16
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Odelay wrote: »
    She says it exactly as it is. Women can higher paid jobs if they want to work in a warehouse rather than shop floor was a perfect example. Also working extra hours, overtime etc. often it is a choice. If they don't work these roles or work the overtime, then don't be surprised if the annual pay is less. Same goes for men.

    Sometimes I think when men blatantly deny what is going on, they are actually ashamed of their gender's actions.

    The BBC recently got into trouble for paying its male journalists much more than female.

    Fourteen women have given written testimonies to an investigation on discrimination. What do you think of that?


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    #17
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,430 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I was just thinking of a conversation that I had with an Irish woman in her 60's.
    She was talking about the gap today and recounted her own experiences.
    She said that when she was a young woman working, men doing the same job, same length of time, were paid a huge amount more than her. Sexism was abound at that time, even more than now, so women were paid leas for same work.

    The main take from that being that you were talking to a woman in her 60s about her work life in times gone.

    Things have changed dramatically in the interim for females in the workplace. To the point where they are outpacing and performing men in many fields. This older ladies perspective, while I'm sure was interesting to hear, has nothing to do with the current situation.


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    #18
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    o1s1n wrote: »
    The main take from that being that you were talking to a woman in her 60s about her work life in times gone.

    Things have changed dramatically in the interim for females in the workplace. To the point where they are outpacing and performing men in many fields. This older ladies perspective, while I'm sure was interesting to hear, has nothing to do with the current situation.

    Did you read my post right after?
    You are incorrect.
    The BBC incident, with 14 women complaining about gender pay discrimination against the BBC is very current.

    There are also hundreds of other recent stories. Surely you are aware of these ?


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    #19
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,430 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Did you read my post right after?
    You are incorrect.
    The BBC incident, with 14 women complaining about gender pay discrimination against the BBC is very current.

    There are also hundreds of other recent stories. Surely you are aware of these ?

    Just because there are some stories about people being paid less doesn't mean there's a global gender pay gap. It's a massive leap to infer one from the other.

    Did you watch the video in the OP?


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    #20
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    o1s1n wrote: »
    Just because there are some stories about people being paid less doesn't mean there's a global gender pay gap. It's a massive leap to infer one from the other.

    Did you watch the video in the OP?

    yes but how can you say that the older woman's story is not relavent to today, when gender pay gap stories are very often reported in today's media. It is a current problem.

    Martina Navratalova added to the report on the BBC discrimination case, saying that she was paid 15,000 in comparison to John McEnroe's 150,000 for the same commentary gigs, that she was lied to and told she was receiving the same as her male costars.

    Of course it exists.
    It would be like there being hundreds of incidents of racism documented in the media, and me saying it doesn't exist.

    All these gender discrimination incidents have been reported, people have launched investigations , and they have all been documented in the media.


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    #21
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    yes but how can you say that the older woman's story is not relavent to today, when gender pay gap stories are very often reported in today's media. It is a current problem.

    Martina Navratalova added to the report on the BBC discrimination case, saying that she was paid 15,000 in comparison to John McEnroe's 150,000 for the same commentary gigs, that she was lied to and told she was receiving the same as her male costars.

    Of course it exists.
    It would be like there being hundreds of incidents of racism documented in the media, and me saying it doesn't exist.

    All these gender discrimination incidents have been reported, people have launched investigations , and they have all been documented in the media.

    You do realise that the BBC report that you're referring to resulted in more men getting pay rises across the organisation than women?

    Edit: Here's a link before I'm asked for it: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-pay-review-will-give-men-more-rises-than-women-plsgjpf6z


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    #22
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭iptba


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    I was just thinking of a conversation that I had with an Irish woman in her 60's.
    She was talking about the gap today and recounted her own experiences.
    She said that when she was a young woman working, men doing the same job, same length of time, were paid a huge amount more than her. Sexism was abound at that time, even more than now, so women were paid leas for same work.
    It was legal to pay men and women different rates in Ireland many decades ago as I understand it. It was at the same time as the marriage ban. The thinking was to ensure as many families as possible had someone earning a decent wage.

    That is very different to the situation now.


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    #23
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    iptba wrote: »
    It was legal to pay men and women different rates in Ireland many decades ago as I understand it. It was at the same time as the marriage ban. The thinking was to ensure as many families as possible had someone earning a decent wage.

    That is very different to the situation now.

    Yes, and both favoured men, and both were inherently sexist. The woman told me that she asked about it, but they wouldn't listen to her.


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    #24
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    source wrote: »
    You do realise that the BBC report that you're referring to resulted in more men getting pay rises across the organisation than women?

    Edit: Here's a link before I'm asked for it: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-pay-review-will-give-men-more-rises-than-women-plsgjpf6z

    Wouldn't it make sense if it's part of the culture? The women and other organisations on their behalf are still fighting it.
    14 women complain about gender discrimination. They launch a report. It decides to give predominanyly male stars a pay rise.

    As one woman said “The report would say that, wouldn’t it?” she told the BBC’s World at One. “This is a PwC report commissioned by the BBC and, without being overly cynical, I might venture to suggest that PwC has delivered the report the BBC has asked for.”

    The National Union of Journalists, which has lodged a collective grievance about pay on behalf of more than 120 BBC employees, accused the broadcaster of “allowing a discriminatory pay culture to flourish” through a “serious lack of oversight”.


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    #25
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Barclays bank have also revealed a huge pay disparity between men and women. Women earn 48% less than men, on average, at Barclays International.

    We can all see that worldwide we need to improve the treatment of women in many areas. What i think men fail to see is when they hold women back, they also hold themselves back.
    If you keep anyone weak, you do not have society at its fullest. Think of all that could be done if women were allowed to fully flourish! All that could be achieved. For both.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Sometimes I think when men blatantly deny what is going on, they are actually ashamed of their gender's actions.

    Once again, I'm calling crap. I've worked professionally in Finance for small, medium, and corporate sized companies. In the vast majority of cases, my mid-level managers were female. In fact, out of the fifteen companies I worked for the Financial directors were female in more than half the companies.

    Then we can look at the shareholders who are the actual owners of a public company, who vote on the policies and regulations of the company itself, and in many cases, actually have influence over what bonuses or commission are given out to employees, especially at higher positions within the organisation. Shareholders are both male and female.

    I get tired of this stereotypical bullsht about gender politics in business, because it is bullsht. Women have had positions of influence/power within management for a bloody long time, and especially when we consider the numbers of women in areas such as administration, HR, etc they actually have more influence than most men in what happens. The top management positions are heavily populated with males, but those top managers/directors don't tend to control payroll, bonuses etc. They're concerned with increasing shareholder value.

    I am so sick of this crap. Stop passing responsibility and own up to the fact that the female gender has been just as involved in the development of this, as men.


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    #27
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Wouldn't it make sense if it's part of the culture? The women and other organisations on their behalf are still fighting it.
    14 women complain about gender discrimination. They launch a report. It decides to give predominanyly male stars a pay rise.

    As one woman said “The report would say that, wouldn’t it?” she told the BBC’s World at One. “This is a PwC report commissioned by the BBC and, without being overly cynical, I might venture to suggest that PwC has delivered the report the BBC has asked for.”

    The National Union of Journalists, which has lodged a collective grievance about pay on behalf of more than 120 BBC employees, accused the broadcaster of “allowing a discriminatory pay culture to flourish” through a “serious lack of oversight”.

    But you see this is the problem, no matter how many times the gender pay myth is debunked certain elements refuse to accept it and stick rigidly.

    PWC are world renowned for their impartiality in these cases and have more to lose in reputational damage than they would have to gain in fudging this report.

    What the report showed was that women were not unfairly underpaid, but rather that anyone not willing to our incapable of asking for more were taken advantage of and underpaid. Both men and women.


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    #28
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Think of all that could be done if women were allowed to fully flourish! All that could be achieved. For both.

    What can women in Ireland in 2018 not do that men can do? Where are their inequalities? Who's holding them back exactly?


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    #29
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭Odelay


    aaakev wrote: »
    We will get to a situation where time served and loyalty to a company will mean nothing... its a race to the bottom

    It already means nothing.


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    #30
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Wouldn't it make sense if it's part of the culture? The women and other organisations on their behalf are still fighting it.
    14 women complain about gender discrimination. They launch a report. It decides to give predominanyly male stars a pay rise.

    As one woman said “The report would say that, wouldn’t it?” she told the BBC’s World at One. “This is a PwC report commissioned by the BBC and, without being overly cynical, I might venture to suggest that PwC has delivered the report the BBC has asked for.”

    The National Union of Journalists, which has lodged a collective grievance about pay on behalf of more than 120 BBC employees, accused the broadcaster of “allowing a discriminatory pay culture to flourish” through a “serious lack of oversight”.

    You don’t do logic or understand empirical data. More men in the BBC got pay rises because more men were underpaid.

    Of course what should have happened was pay cuts all around a more money for the beleaguered British worker and taxpayer.


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    #31
    heroics
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭heroics


    source wrote: »
    But you see this is the problem, no matter how many times the gender pay myth is debunked certain elements refuse to accept it and stick rigidly.

    This +1. In my experience most women I work with get approx same as the men doing the same role (some get a little more/some get a little less but thats the same for the guys in here as well) We all negotiate our own pay within a band for our role.

    Statistics can be used in loads of ways for example in my team (IT Engineers) there are 12 guys and 1 women (the manager btw) Her base salary is more than any of ours. However if you add in the cleaning staff for example 4 women, if you compared the gender gap in our company there would probably be a large gap on paper but in reality the company pays the same bands for same work.

    So purely for an example

    Avg male = 60K
    Avg women = ((1*70)+(4*20))=30K

    OMG women get 1/2 the salary men do but that is just not reality. If any of the cleaners were men then they would also get the 20k salary and if any of the women had gone to college and had the same experience as the men they would get the 60K.


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